how lonf before i see good results

**BullDogg20** · 09-09-2001, 02:24 PM

I just started my very first cycle of anabolic steriods .
I am currently taking sustenon 250 and winstrol depot.
I am injecting the sust every 6 days for 7 weeks and i am injecting 1 cc of winstrol every other day. i have a total of 7 amps of sust and 30 ml of upjohn winney.
I started this cycle one week ago and i already feel more tight and i feel like i am growing. do u think this is just in my head or would it work that fast. and how much do u think i will gain off of this cycle. i am 5;5 170 lbs 13% bodyfat.

**BullDogg20** · 09-09-2001, 03:18 PM

i need a reply please

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 09-09-2001, 04:03 PM

hey bulldog, how was your first shot? any break out at all? I'm gettin ready to start my first as well. How you gonna take the winny? Using any nolvadex ? Water retention? Fill me in bro, and good luck.

**Nathan** · 09-09-2001, 05:20 PM

We need more info dude. What dosages? What is your diet like and what are your goals? Sure, the gear could very well be taking effect at this point, but that's mainly the winny. Are you using any anti-e's?

**BullDogg20** · 09-09-2001, 08:35 PM

Ok, i didnt think i need to go ointo details about what dosages i am taking becasue i thought i already did that.
Anyways. I have 7 amps of sustenon 250 i am taking 1amp or 1cc or 250 mg every 6 days Then i am also taking 50 mg or 1cc of winney every other day. I eat fairly good , i consume around 200 grams of protein a day, i am 5"5 170lbs around 13 % bodyfat.
my goal is to gain 15 pounds quality muscle and get more defined.

**Full Intensity** · 09-09-2001, 08:38 PM

winny kicks in pretty quick, but doesn't last long, thus the eod injections. and the sus takes a few weeks b4 the full effects are felt. But i would inject 1cc of sus every 3 to 4 days (twice a week)

**BullDogg20** · 09-09-2001, 08:46 PM

thanx maybe i will do that,
but still what kind of gains can i expect

**azn555** · 09-09-2001, 09:44 PM

Bro your gonna need to find another 9 amps of sus to finish up your cycle. Do sus at 500mg/wk for 8weeks. winney eod and your good to go. your first cycle is always gonna be your best so make it worth while. and of course clomid at the end 50/100/50

**Anger1** · 09-09-2001, 09:52 PM

I would get the sus in and out and build up as quick as you can with the Test and try and keep the size with the winny. The longer you are on the test the longer it is going to take for your nuts to start producing your natural T. Blast the Shit and get on with your life.

And IMO it is going to take about 500 mgs per week to get your T-levels to the point where you want. Alot of new guys just take enough to cancel out thier own T levels. Meaning that they take in just enough supplemental Test that it shuts down their own supply and then when they are off their nuts take a couple of weeks to come back and the small bit of size they gained is lost durring that periodthey end up wasting it.

I like Full Intensitys Idea. Every 3-4 days.

**Slapshot1** · 09-09-2001, 10:24 PM

Yeah more sust is needed 500mgs/week

**BullDogg20** · 09-10-2001, 11:36 AM

Ok maybe i will pick up a couple 3 more amps od sustenon,
But i thought that becasue i am new to anabolic steriods that iddint need as much to see good results. any ways get back to me

**BullDogg20** · 09-10-2001, 11:45 AM

ok also i was wondering if i do run 500 mg a week of sustenon do i take 2 250 mg the same day or can i spread it out.

**Lush** · 09-10-2001, 12:18 PM

You wanna split the injections up. The 4 different esters kick in at different times, so you spead the shots out as much as possible so all the esters are at as consistant levels as they can be.

**pureanger** · 09-10-2001, 12:32 PM

You dont have to split your sust shots up it stays long in your system if you do 500 mg of sust and hit 100mg of winnie eod you should put 25-30 lbs on if you run at least 10 weeks long

**Slapshot1** · 09-10-2001, 05:32 PM

Sorry PA, but one of the esters that make up sust is prop which has a short half, life, much like IG's post on winny.

In order to take advantage of all the esters in sust and maintain consistant test levels it's best to spread the shots out.

**deez** · 09-10-2001, 07:33 PM

No doubt shoot 500 twice a week. You wont get much at all from 250 a week.LIke slapshot said the short acting esters work best when they react right after one another which is 3-4 days i believe (half a week approx) And i would run that at least for 8 weeks. No use in half assing a cycle. Dont start until you have all your test. You will get quality gains from that depending on your diet. Bump your protein up though. You need more than 200. At least 300. Only a couple more shakes. my $.02. peace

**jssmc** · 09-10-2001, 10:02 PM

Bulldog,
Whats up with using my arnie pic man? I used that first! It's all good I guess.
jssmc

**juiceon** · 09-10-2001, 10:38 PM

No flame here to anyone, but I am not convinced that there are not benefits to spreading out the prop (fast acting test) to once a week in a stack (such as sust) that has other active tests. The feedback mechanism when injecting synthetic test manifests itself over time: as your body gets familiar with certain level of test the injections become less effective. Trying to maintain a consistent level may lead to a quicker downgrade of effectiveness - as your body easily figures out what is going on and adjusts. A benefit of sust may be just that which everyone says is bad - you get fluctuations of test levels in your system over time. Thus, it takes a longer time for your system to figure out how to compensate. In this respect, getting a prop spike once a week may be a good thing. It may also explain why I can gain on sust for 8 or more weeks at just 500 mg., whereas the gains I get on enanthate stop coming at about week 5 if I don't use more.

**BullDogg20** · 09-10-2001, 10:48 PM

thanx guys for all the help i will consider everything everyone has said.
sorry about the arnie pic i didnt know hjow to get any other s

**Slapshot1** · 09-10-2001, 11:01 PM

juiceon I'm still not convinced. I definitly won't take your post as a flame. That's why they call this a discussion board

I've never been exposed to this theory; fluctuating test levels a good thing? New to me, however I'm going to take it upon myself to find any research there is on the subject. Not to prove myself right, but to find the truth. I don't care whose right and whose wrong I care about results and hardheadedness won't get me those.

I've gone 8 weeks with consistent gains of sust also spreading them out One Sunday morning one wednesday night.

Your test spike theory kind of reminds me a little of the theory behind short cycles. Where you shock your body with test and you grow like a mother-fucker for a short period of time. Cripes I've been out of the game too long, I'm forgetting all kinds of shit.

I'll post what I find probably on Wednesday. (Need a night to research.)

**juiceon** · 09-10-2001, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Slapshot1

I've gone 8 weeks with consistent gains of sust also spreading them out One Sunday morning one wednesday night.

I have also. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with splitting them up. Just that once a week may have benefits also.

Our goals are the same - I look forward to seeing what you find.

**Slapshot1** · 09-10-2001, 11:12 PM

Right on

**SUPER SPORT** · 09-11-2001, 12:22 AM

SLAPSHOT,
Im going to actually disagree. being your first cycle i think the way you had it spaced is more than efficient!

taking one shot of sust every 6 days with the winny will do Wonders for a first time user. you certainly do not need to take 500 mg. to see noticeable diff.

I can tell you that 500mg. of sust a week is alot of exogenous testosterone for a first time user. (dont forget your also injecting winny which is fairly androgenic and helps with the muscle density/protein anabolism)

My advice to you, (and I am pretty much a veteran at this) is to continue taking sust. 250 every 6 days for a period of 6-7 weeks, and Im sure you will see SIGNIFICANT gains coupled with the winny, and have little to NO side effects. it would be a waste of money and a bit riskier (even though the risk is still little) for a first time user.

yes some might flame me and say I dont know what im taking about, but i assure you I do!
i dont mean ANY disrespect to anyone elses advice, but that is my personal advice to you!

a great way to really pack it on for first time users, so long as you dont have a pre-disp. to bitch tits, is to take about 3 tabs of d-bol a day with the sust 250 and winny.

so sust every 6 days, D-bol 3x a day, and winny EOD

you might get a bit watery, so just watch your sodium intake (nothing drastic just dont eat too many high salts foods )
and drink PLENTY of water

Good luck!

**jssmc** · 09-11-2001, 12:45 AM

I was just joking with you man! Don't worry. It's a great pic. Enjoy it!
jssmc

**juiceon** · 09-14-2001, 10:30 PM

Bump . . . for anyone who can explain why it is beneficial to have consistent test levels when using a stack of test, or what is wrong with an "intermittent" application of a fast acting test on top of a long acting test stack (eg., such as sust once a week).

It seems that we are beginning to follow the theory that consistent test levels are "better" and that makes once a week administration of sustanon "bad", without addressing the potential benefits of fluctuating levels to fool our feedback mechanism.

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 09-15-2001, 01:07 AM

bump... I wanna hear more about this issue-SUPER SPORT-you really think that 500mg/wk is too much for a beginner? I was gonna start my first cycle next week. 10 wks. wks 1-5 500mg/Sus, 400mg/Eq, wks 5-10...500mg/Sus, 400mg/Eq, 100mg Winny EOD. What do you think too much? - I don't want to have to start buying bra's afterwards.

**Slapshot1** · 09-16-2001, 11:53 AM

OK I've been slacking I haven't posted since...I'll try do some research tonight. Notice S.Sport still recommends that Bulldogg take one injection every 6 days (although it is only 250mgs a week).

I definitly haven't been pulling my weight at this board since I've joined. So stay tuned.

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 09-16-2001, 12:02 PM

cool

**BullDogg20** · 09-16-2001, 07:10 PM

thanx guys for all the info it been really helpful, i have a question about injectiing in the shoulders.
i have been injecting the winny in the shoulders but it seems that i bleed when i pull the needle out , almost like it squirts out . kinda freaks me out. any thoughts

BullDogg20