bOnDs !!!

[$uperman]

seems like barry bonds is starting just where he left off. he finished last season with 73 homeruns and he already has four in his first two games of the season. barry is simply amazing , one of the best swings you'll ever see.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by $uperman
seems like barry bonds is starting just where he left off. he finished last season with 73 homeruns and he already has four in his first two games of the season. barry is simply amazing , one of the best swings you'll ever see.

I hate him; he's smug, cocky and so obviously *in-love* with himself.

Can't deny it though, he's an amazing athlete.

Just wish he wasn't such an asshole to fans and media alike.

[Neo]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever


I hate him; he's smug, cocky and so obviously *in-love* with himself.

Can't deny it though, he's an amazing athlete.

Just wish he wasn't such an asshole to fans and media alike.


Gotta agree with Canes on this one. Barry has been a giant ass. He is a great athlete, but he also needs to realize that baseball is just a game that is nothing without its fans. :devil:

[$uperman]

asshole or no asshole.... the dude can rip the ball like a mofo. not saying i like his personality but i do respect the guys talent

[Neo]

Absolutely....He's a great athlete!!!!

[EXCESS]

Somebody needs to throw a few fastballs at his head or all we'll be hearing this season is homerun hype! I'd much rather see a race for .400 or a pitching record, but that doesn't look too likely.

[$uperman]

yeah your right... i cant believe how many homeruns have been hit so far. not just bonds , they have some guys with three homeruns in two games. i really think pitchers will watching alotta ballz leave the park

[ibiza69]

if he continues at this rate (2 homer games) he will be on pace for 214 homeruns, so that means he will break his home run reacord by early june. just a stat there.:afro:

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
I hate him; he's smug, cocky and so obviously *in-love* with himself.

Just wish he wasn't such an asshole to fans and media alike.

He is that way, but look at it this way - if you were that famous, and had the media watch your every move, and fans yellin

"sign this"
"barry, over here"
"barry you suck - that was mcgwire's record"
"barry, can i have a ball"

then you'd want them off your back as well and be a little testy with everyone. fans follow you everywhere - at the ballpark every hour of the day just to get his autograph - basically appear like stalkers. they just won't leave him alone.

[Vegas Kid]

Maybe if he would take all that body armor off, he wouldn't be leaning right over the plate. I thought the major league got rid of that garbage. It doesn't give the pitcher anywhere to pitch and BBonds doesn't have to worry about getting hit. He's a piece of shit!!

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Vegas Kid
Maybe if he would take all that body armor off, he wouldn't be leaning right over the plate. I thought the major league got rid of that garbage. It doesn't give the pitcher anywhere to pitch and BBonds doesn't have to worry about getting hit. He's a piece of shit!!

they didn't get rid of it, they limited it to how long it can be.

please explain why he is a piece of shit...

[9natural9]

Every great athlete, or achievement as a matter of fact, has to have a driving force behind it....in Barry Bonds case, I believe it is the chip on his shoulder and the "me against the world" attitude that drives him to be the amazing ball player he is.

The media has a funny and manipulating way to help form opinions of the fans by leading them with a negative slant towards certain athletes that rebel against the media.

Unless we know him personally, I don't think anyone can judge his charecter off the field. If history holds true then some said Ty Cobb was the biggest prick in his time as well, but either way you cant take away the fact Barry smashed 73 homeruns last season, and is consistently a heavy hitter. He is a Hall Of Famer, no doubt, but I am willing to bet my right arm that "they" will postpone his induction for as long as possible...what a ****ing shame...the man goes to work on a baseball diamond and does his job remarkably...it shoudn't matter if he signs 1 or 1 trillion autographs...what a cop out to those who are being led by the machine....it's sad really!!!

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by EXCESS
Somebody needs to throw a few fastballs at his head or all we'll be hearing this season is homerun hype! I'd much rather see a race for .400 or a pitching record, but that doesn't look too likely.

Yeah, it's part of the syndrome of how the game has changed, and for me, that's not for the better. The game is one of finesse when played purely, not of power.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Every great athlete, or achievement as a matter of fact, has to have a driving force behind it....in Barry Bonds case, I believe it is the chip on his shoulder and the "me against the world" attitude that drives him to be the amazing ball player he is.

I believe it's more of the "I want to be on top of the world" attitude - not me agains the world. Every athlete strives to be the best at what they are. Sports, especially baseball, have become so much of a business these days - which means the better you do, the more money you get. But, along with the money, comes fame and a developing history with every swing, every pitch, every game that is played.

He is a Hall Of Famer, no doubt, but I am willing to bet my right arm that "they" will postpone his induction for as long as possible...

i doubt that. he will certainly be inducted the first time (5 years after resignation). any homerun champ deserves that honor.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


He is that way, but look at it this way - if you were that famous, and had the media watch your every move, and fans yellin

"sign this"
"barry, over here"
"barry you suck - that was mcgwire's record"
"barry, can i have a ball"

then you'd want them off your back as well and be a little testy with everyone. fans follow you everywhere - at the ballpark every hour of the day just to get his autograph - basically appear like stalkers. they just won't leave him alone.

Many, many ballplayers have the same thing happen to them and they aren't assholes like Bonds. It's no excuse.

Don't you think Cal Ripken must have gotten tired of crap back in 1998 (wasn't it?) when he was going for his record breaking Iron Man record ? How about McGwire in 1999 when he was on the HR pace ? Last year both Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn were dogged all year because of their impending retirements, yet you will NEVER meet any two guys that are more fan friendly, always have time to talk to fans and feel the obligation to support the fans that make their way of life.

Bonds, was born and raised the son of an athlete, he of all of them knew the ropes before he started playing ball and should be more aware than the others that the fans are the most important part of the game, for without the fans there is NO BIG MONEY and there is not game.

Sorry Key, your argument doesn't cut it today.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Many, many ballplayers have the same thing happen to them and they aren't assholes like Bonds. It's no excuse.

not trying to start an argument, just offering a different point of view....

your choices of Gwynn and Ripken - yes, they are very fan friendly. some people can handle the media / pressure / fans / etc....some people can't and just get fed up with it. it's like you want to scream "just leave me alone for a little bit".

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


they didn't get rid of it, they limited it to how long it can be.

please explain why he is a piece of shit...

See my answer above....that is why last year not as much was made of his HR run as a couple year before when Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire ran for their record. Both McGwire and Sosa are fan friendly and Bonds is a self-absorbed and arrogant ****.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
that is why last year not as much was made of his HR run as a couple year before when Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire ran for their record. Both McGwire and Sosa are fan friendly and Bonds is a self-absorbed and arrogant ****.

that's b/c it had only been...what....3 years since McGwire & Sosa's amazing race. before that it had been....what....40 years since anyone came even close to that mark ??

all the player's are fan friendly for the simple fact of this - it makes them look better. bonds really doesn't care how he appears to the fans. he knows he's good and will still remain in the game until he chooses to retire.

[Mouseofaman]

also, look at it this way.....remember the HR race in 61 between Maris and Mantle......who did the fans want to break Ruth's record? Mantle.......why ???? b/c Maris wasn't very open to the fans.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Every great athlete, or achievement as a matter of fact, has to have a driving force behind it....in Barry Bonds case, I believe it is the chip on his shoulder and the "me against the world" attitude that drives him to be the amazing ball player he is.

The media has a funny and manipulating way to help form opinions of the fans by leading them with a negative slant towards certain athletes that rebel against the media.

Unless we know him personally, I don't think anyone can judge his charecter off the field. If history holds true then some said Ty Cobb was the biggest prick in his time as well, but either way you cant take away the fact Barry smashed 73 homeruns last season, and is consistently a heavy hitter. He is a Hall Of Famer, no doubt, but I am willing to bet my right arm that "they" will postpone his induction for as long as possible...what a ****ing shame...the man goes to work on a baseball diamond and does his job remarkably...it shoudn't matter if he signs 1 or 1 trillion autographs...what a cop out to those who are being led by the machine....it's sad really!!!

Sorry, but I have had personal experience of his assholeness. He was at the Celebrity Golf Tournament that Dan Marino holds for his charities about 2 years ago. I was there and witnessed the kids and fans that waited for each of the athletes to pass by and talk, sign autographs and just greet and meet the fans. Every single athlete but Bonds stopped and greeted and talked to fans. This is why I think it's NOT just the media led campaign against him, but that there is a lot of validity behind it as well.

Ty Cobb was a prick, and a racist asshole. Certainly not anyone I would want my children to emulate, and there are so many other baseball players to look up too than that jerk.

I have no problem with Bonds being in the HOF as soon as he is eligible, his on field accomplishments regarding HR's are without question. However he hasn't performed like a champion when it really counted; at Pittsburgh he had a career under .200 batting average when in the playoffs and at San Francisco his numbers are not much better. In 1997 I believe he hit his 1st HR of the post-season after 15 playoff games. During the season is one thing, but REAL CHAMPIONS and GREAT PLAYERS play and lead in the playoffs, which at, he certainly has failed miserably.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
In 1997 I believe he hit his 1st HR of the post-season after 15 playoff games. During the season is one thing, but REAL CHAMPIONS and GREAT PLAYERS play and lead in the playoffs, which at, he certainly has failed miserably.

a game is a game. playoffs - so the stakes are a little higher. doesn't mean you have to change anything to play better. just keep playing like you are and it will all fall in place. some people just have their shining moments - whether it be good or bad.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur
i doubt that. he will certainly be inducted the first time (5 years after resignation). any homerun champ deserves that honor.

I agree, he will be in the HOF on the 1st ballot. He deserves that; I have no question of his being in the HOF, I just don't think he's a HOF player when it comes to the fans. He's a 1st class JERK. That is the basis of what I 1st said in this thread. He's an amazing athlete, but I can't stand him, he's a self-absorbed and arrogant prick and it's a damn shame he has the HR record and I will love it if someone else can beat him this year.

The unfortunate thing is he could be # 3 on the all-time list by years end. He most certainly will pass up Harmon "The Killer" Killebrew and Mark McGwire this year.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


not trying to start an argument, just offering a different point of view....

your choices of Gwynn and Ripken - yes, they are very fan friendly. some people can handle the media / pressure / fans / etc....some people can't and just get fed up with it. it's like you want to scream "just leave me alone for a little bit".

Hey I agree with you, it's tough and hard to put up with. I probably couldn't do it myself. Still doesn't change the fact I have heard he is the same whether he is with fans or with people at restaurants. I read in the paper last year he refuses to tip white people that serve him. Is it true? I don't know but I believe it's very within the character he has shown us already.

Again I will say, he's an amazing athlete, I just think he is an arrogant **** and a self-absorbed asshole. For what its worth, I followed Tony Gwynn and Call Ripken and thier retirements more closely last year than his HR chase.

[mishon1]

bonds doesnt seeem to care about anything but winning. everytime the press talks to him thats all he talks about. he doesnt talk about how many home runs he wants. he is cocky but shit when u hold 3 records and set them all n one year then u can b. i think everyone is crushing homeruns cause they r luv'n the juice. everybody's using i think like 40% or baseball players.

[shonuff]

Originally posted by 9natural9
The media has a funny and manipulating way to help form opinions of the fans by leading them with a negative slant towards certain athletes that rebel against the media.

...it shoudn't matter if he signs 1 or 1 trillion autographs...what a cop out to those who are being led by the machine....it's sad really!!!


Your 100% right about that...every listens to the media and judges somebody about what the media says.

case in point when latreall sprewell tried to choke his coach the media crucified him and made him out to be a bad guy. and EVERYONE listened to the media. even the average joe who didnt even know who he was heard about the story and formed there opinion about him based off the "media" and said stuff like he should be kicked out the nba, and hes a piece of crap...etc.
But now the media is sayin hes a good player and a good guy and those same people who crucified him even the media or on his nuts!!!!!! I bet u if Jordan had did the same thing everyone would be blaming the coach for what happened, why cause Jordan cant do wrong in the medias eyes and the fans eyes.
it would have been more like "i wonder what coach did to jordan to make him snap like that" and nobody would crucify Jordan.

The same thing goes for people like Iverson the media didnt like him and called him a trouble maker, bad influence, thug..etc.then he makes a rap cd with cursing and violent lyrics..etc and the media crucifies him and now hes REALLY a trouble maker, bad influence blah blah blah, and EVERY1 believed the media and made an opinion about him....but now he has takin hes team to the finals, nba mvp, does press conferences with hes kids on hes lap and now hes a good guy, positive role model,hes just misunderstood..etc
and of course since the media changed there view on Iverson so did every1 else who is a slave to da media!!!!!

Sorry to rant here but i hate it when people judge athletes when they KNOW NOTHIN ABOUT THEM EXCEPT WHAT THEY HEAR FORM THE MEDIA!!!!!!

Peace:afro:

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur
also, look at it this way.....remember the HR race in 61 between Maris and Mantle......who did the fans want to break Ruth's record? Mantle.......why ???? b/c Maris wasn't very open to the fans.

Doesn't this make my original point? That he's an amazing athlete but its a shame he's such a jerk? No argument Key, just we agree it seems in a way.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by mishon1
everybody's using i think like 40% or baseball players.

um.......no.......try a higher number.....

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


a game is a game. playoffs - so the stakes are a little higher. doesn't mean you have to change anything to play better. just keep playing like you are and it will all fall in place. some people just have their shining moments - whether it be good or bad.

My point being he hasn't UPPED the ante when it comes to playoff time. All althletes know you have to up the ante when it comes to the playoffs, unfortunately for the Pirates and Giants so far, Bonds has never done that.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Doesn't this make my original point? That he's an amazing athlete but its a shame he's such a jerk? No argument Key, just we agree it seems in a way.

ah, we do.....shoot me now....:D

he's portrayed a jerk b/c he chooses not to acknowledge the fans b/c they are constantly hounding him. baseball is work believe it or not. the owner's are the real people in it to make money. if they don't get the best players, they won't have the best business. so, they attempt to get the best players regardless of how they act. as long as their team wins, they will make money and they will look good.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


um.......no.......try a higher number.....

Yeah, probably like 75%. I saw a game the other day on ESPN Classics that was about 10 years old. The difference was remarkable in the size of the players it really shocked me.

The juice has changed the game. :(

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
The juice has changed the game. :(

which brings up a few points :

1 - bigger faster stronger = better
2 - if you're better, then you'll get more cash (cause it's a business !)

[shonuff]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Canes4Ever
[B]

Sorry, but I have had personal experience of his assholeness. He was at the Celebrity Golf Tournament that Dan Marino holds for his charities about 2 years ago. I was there and witnessed the kids and fans that waited for each of the athletes to pass by and talk, sign autographs and just greet and meet the fans. Every single athlete but Bonds stopped and greeted and talked to fans. This is why I think it's NOT just the media led campaign against him, but that there is a lot of validity behind it as well.


Canes Barry knows how people think of him and how bad they talk about him..why would he sign an autograph for a fan that dosnt like him??and probaly only wants his autograph so they can sell it on ebay and make some money??????

Gary Shefeild is in the same boat... hes on home field boos him and calls him racist names, he has to sit out in da field and have hes home team yell and curse at him the whole game!!!!! and then those same fans ask for an autograph...but most people dont know that Gary is a christain and he wouldnt sign autographs but he understands thats not the right attitude to have and goes ahead and signs them. But once again the MEDIA lables Gary and so do the fans.

[jleighty17]

Originally posted by ibiza69
if he continues at this rate (2 homer games) he will be on pace for 214 homeruns, so that means he will break his home run reacord by early june. just a stat there.:afro:

if my memory serves me correct there are 162 games in a season so 2 a game liek he is doing nowthat would be 324 homeruns in a season not 214 just a little correction there

[9natural9]

CANES WROTE.... I read in the paper last year he refuses to tip white people that serve him. Is it true? I don't know but I believe it's very within the character he has shown us already



My point exactly CANES, you READ in the paper. Give me the name of the waiter/waiters that Bonds didn't tip, not the publication of a slanted writer. The paper written by who, the media machine. They can make or break a public figure, don't be so gullible to the power they possess. He might have said that, if so that makes HIM a racist, but it doesn't count out the fact that he has set himself athletically in the history books as THE TOP HR hitter in the game to date. Everyone has to have a good and bad guy, that is just the way we humans are. Bonds got tagged with that title, maybe he deserves it, maybe not, but the bottom line is being a bad or good person to the fans or media isn't a qualification in his field of employment, though it would be smart of him to play the political game with the entire "machine" but he chooses to just show up and work. Anything outside of the baseball diamond and 9 innings is irrelevant to his responsibilities. He isnt REQUIRED to be at the fans or medias expense. It is his right, we have to respect that. We don't necessarily have to agree or understand it, but at least respect it. As far as his playoff performances, he has yet to "prove" hisself to me, but then again it takes more than 1 HR record holder to win big games, just ask Mark Mcguire. His playoff stats are suspect as well, but because he adhores to the politics that polute all athletics it is NEVER mentioned. BTW, HOF voters, believe it or not, are media fed and in my opinion Bonds will suffer for this more than the 5 years after his retirement. Yes he deserves immediate induction, but so does Pete Rose, and we all know where he is at.


BTW, I love this debate, very passionate.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


ah, we do.....shoot me now....:D

he's portrayed a jerk b/c he chooses not to acknowledge the fans b/c they are constantly hounding him.

And he also CHOOSES to be an asshole. And guess what, he also has hurt himself commercially as well. Don't see Bonds in too many commericals, like you see Ripken, Gwynn or McGwire.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
And he also CHOOSES to be an asshole. And guess what, he also has hurt himself commercially as well. Don't see Bonds in too many commericals, like you see Ripken, Gwynn or McGwire.

that's cause he doesn't want to be. he doesn't need all that extra bullshit to make him look good - he does that with his stick. why do you think so many other ballplayer's have "charities" that they help fund ??? it makes them look better, more of a "family" man or whatever.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


which brings up a few points :

1 - bigger faster stronger = better
2 - if you're better, then you'll get more cash (cause it's a business !)

To # 1, yes and no, has bigger, faster and stronger changed the game enough as to make it a better or worse game ?

It used to be that "pitching and defense" won you games, now it's a HR battle. I am old-fashioned and prefer pitching and defense. :unsure:

[9natural9]

(Post #34)

CANES WROTE.... I read in the paper last year he refuses to tip white people that serve him. Is it true? I don't know but I believe it's very within the character he has shown us already



My point exactly CANES, you READ in the paper. Give me the name of the waiter/waiters that Bonds didn't tip, not the publication of a slanted writer. The paper written by who, the media machine. They can make or break a public figure, don't be so gullible to the power they possess. He might have said that, if so that makes HIM a racist, but it doesn't count out the fact that he has set himself athletically in the history books as THE TOP HR hitter in the game to date. Everyone has to have a good and bad guy, that is just the way we humans are. Bonds got tagged with that title, maybe he deserves it, maybe not, but the bottom line is being a bad or good person to the fans or media isn't a qualification in his field of employment, though it would be smart of him to play the political game with the entire "machine" but he chooses to just show up and work. Anything outside of the baseball diamond and 9 innings is irrelevant to his responsibilities. He isnt REQUIRED to be at the fans or medias expense. It is his right, we have to respect that. We don't necessarily have to agree or understand it, but at least respect it. As far as his playoff performances, he has yet to "prove" hisself to me, but then again it takes more than 1 HR record holder to win big games, just ask Mark Mcguire. His playoff stats are suspect as well, but because he adhores to the politics that polute all athletics it is NEVER mentioned. BTW, HOF voters, believe it or not, are media fed and in my opinion Bonds will suffer for this more than the 5 years after his retirement. Yes he deserves immediate induction, but so does Pete Rose, and we all know where he is at.


BTW, I love this debate, very passionate.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Bonds will suffer for this more than the 5 years after his retirement. Yes he deserves immediate induction, but so does Pete Rose, and we all know where he is at.

Pete Rose isn't being inducted b/c he broke the rules - he gambled on baseball. not allowed :no:

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
It used to be that "pitching and defense" won you games, now it's a HR battle. I am old-fashioned and prefer pitching and defense. :unsure:

as an old coach of mine used to say "there are 3 things that win games - pitching, defense, and timely hitting"

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by shonuff
[
Canes Barry knows how people think of him and how bad they talk about him..why would he sign an autograph for a fan that dosnt like him??and probaly only wants his autograph so they can sell it on ebay and make some money??????


Not everyone that wants an autograph sells it on EBay, as a matter of fact when I meet an athlete (and I have met a few) I always ask to shake their hand and make a point of telling them that I shake thier hand because that is a memory for me and not something I can sell on ebay.

Gary Shefeild is in the same boat... hes on home field boos him and calls him racist names, he has to sit out in da field and have hes home team yell and curse at him the whole game!!!!! and then those same fans ask for an autograph...but most people dont know that Gary is a christain and he wouldnt sign autographs but he understands thats not the right attitude to have and goes ahead and signs them. But once again the MEDIA lables Gary and so do the fans.

Trust me, being a Florida Marlins fan I am quite aware of Gary Sheffield, and your wrong, Gary Sheffield has been much more fan friendly and personable with the public. I saw him a few times at personal appearances in the Miami area and he was always great. However, maybe he has changed since leaving the Marlins.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
I saw him a few times at personal appearances in the Miami area and he was always great.

in a way that's different - they get paid for that. if someone paid you to smile and talk to people - would you do it ?

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
CANES WROTE.... I read in the paper last year he refuses to tip white people that serve him. Is it true? I don't know but I believe it's very within the character he has shown us already



My point exactly CANES, you READ in the paper. Give me the name of the waiter/waiters that Bonds didn't tip, not the publication of a slanted writer. The paper written by who, the media machine. They can make or break a public figure, don't be so gullible to the power they possess. He might have said that, if so that makes HIM a racist, but it doesn't count out the fact that he has set himself athletically in the history books as THE TOP HR hitter in the game to date. Everyone has to have a good and bad guy, that is just the way we humans are. Bonds got tagged with that title, maybe he deserves it, maybe not, but the bottom line is being a bad or good person to the fans or media isn't a qualification in his field of employment, though it would be smart of him to play the political game with the entire "machine" but he chooses to just show up and work. Anything outside of the baseball diamond and 9 innings is irrelevant to his responsibilities. He isnt REQUIRED to be at the fans or medias expense. It is his right, we have to respect that. We don't necessarily have to agree or understand it, but at least respect it. As far as his playoff performances, he has yet to "prove" hisself to me, but then again it takes more than 1 HR record holder to win big games, just ask Mark Mcguire. His playoff stats are suspect as well, but because he adhores to the politics that polute all athletics it is NEVER mentioned. BTW, HOF voters, believe it or not, are media fed and in my opinion Bonds will suffer for this more than the 5 years after his retirement. Yes he deserves immediate induction, but so does Pete Rose, and we all know where he is at.


BTW, I love this debate, very passionate.

I don't see what the debate is though, I agree with everything you have said; he is an amazing athlete, he is a HOF player, he is to be respected at the plate, etc, etc....what is the debate?

All I said was it's a shame because he IS a jerk. I have seen it in person, not just heard it in the "media". He has admitted to being a jerk, and he has every right to act that way.

No debate brother.

[shonuff]

just think about how much attention was paid to mark when he broke the record????thats all u heard about, why beacuse he was MEDIA nice and the MEDIA loved him, u couldnt go anywhere on tv without hearing something about Marks homerun race, i knew people who didnt even follow baseball and they could care less about Marks homerun race, but thats all they heard from radio and tv and somehow they found themselves caring alittle. Why Because of how the MEDIA made Mark out to be the all american,family man type of guy.

Now lets go to Barry he shatters Marks recored but u hear hardly a peep out of the media about it??Those same people i talked about before that didnt care about baseball didnt even know that Barry was on the verge of breaking Marks recored.Why da MEDIA!!!!! The MEDIA dosnt care for Barry so he dosnt get any exposure...im sure Barry could care less, but thats just another example of how the MEDIA has power over most people!!!

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


that's cause he doesn't want to be. he doesn't need all that extra bullshit to make him look good - he does that with his stick. why do you think so many other ballplayer's have "charities" that they help fund ??? it makes them look better, more of a "family" man or whatever.

Then doesn't this prove what a shit he really is? He doesn't care about anyone but Barry Bonds. I am not that type of person and don't care for those that are selfish and arrogant pricks like Barry Bonds.

His money and fame are derived from the FANS and if he doesn't appreciate them he wouldn't be famous or more importantly to him RICH.

If he had been a pre-strike and pre-free agency player, with his present attitude he would have been a very poor superstar. Men back then made about $ 25,000 a year and had to count on outside income to live comfortablely. Many players up to the 1970's had 2nd jobs in the off-season.

Again I don't disagree with his abilities, I have a problem with his attitude and personality.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by shonuff
just think about how much attention was paid to mark when he broke the record????thats all u heard about, why beacuse he was MEDIA nice and the MEDIA loved him, u couldnt go anywhere on tv without hearing something about Marks homerun race, i knew people who didnt even follow baseball and they could care less about Marks homerun race, but thats all they heard from radio and tv and somehow they found themselves caring alittle. Why Because of how the MEDIA made Mark out to be the all american,family man type of guy.

Now lets go to Barry he shatters Marks recored but u hear hardly a peep out of the media about it??Those same people i talked about before that didnt care about baseball didnt even know that Barry was on the verge of breaking Marks recored.Why da MEDIA!!!!! The MEDIA dosnt care for Barry so he dosnt get any exposure...im sure Barry could care less, but thats just another example of how the MEDIA has power over most people!!!

also refer back up to my post earlier - when Big Mac and Sosa were goin after the record - it had been 40 years since anyone had come remotely close. bonds did it just 3 years later. the media was still around and making a deal about it. it just wasn't blown up like it was earlier b/c it was just done a few years before.

[shonuff]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Trust me, being a Florida Marlins fan I am quite aware of Gary Sheffield, and your wrong, Gary Sheffield has been much more fan friendly and personable with the public. I saw him a few times at personal appearances in the Miami area and he was always great. However, maybe he has changed since leaving the Marlins.

im talkin about when he was with LA

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Then doesn't this prove what a shit he really is? He doesn't care about anyone but Barry Bonds. I am not that type of person and don't care for those that are selfish and arrogant pricks like Barry Bonds.

so just b/c he has doesn't give to a charity (which i'm sure he does, but for reference sake, we'll say he doesn't) that makes him an ass? it's his money, his life - why should we interfere with it? and when we do, why should we expect him to just let us in?put yourself in his shoes....

[shonuff]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


also refer back up to my post earlier - when Big Mac and Sosa were goin after the record - it had been 40 years since anyone had come remotely close. bonds did it just 3 years later. the media was still around and making a deal about it. it just wasn't blown up like it was earlier b/c it was just done a few years before.


yeah i understand that, but i think if it was Mark who broke it last year with the same numbers as Barry the MEDIA would have made just as much noise if not more than when he did it the first time.JMO

[Vegas Kid]

Sorry I couldn't reply Key Mastur but I had class to attend. As I read through the replies just a couple of things:
First, it's not just the juice that makes them hit HR's but the fact that the strike zone has virtually disappeared. As for the body armor, I thought you could only play with it if you had a note from your doc, which won't be hard to get if you make that kind of jack. And lay off the media. I know they blow things out of proportion but it wasn't the media who started a riot in a bowling alley, it was Allen Iverson. As for Barry, people give him plenty of attention, it just isn't the kind he probably likes. Former teammates have said some pretty negative things about him and I know a lot of people who hate him for his attitude, not just what the media says. Bottom line -- guy's a hell of an athlete but I'm not to impressed personally. He is no where near the greatest ever like that pitcher who got lit up said.

In Barry defense: Barry got a bad rap with that whole Sammy Sosa thing. I like SS but he started all that talk and Barry got blamed for it.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Vegas Kid
First, it's not just the juice that makes them hit HR's but the fact that the strike zone has virtually disappeared.

disappeared ?? how so when they added inches on the top and bottom ??

As for the body armor, I thought you could only play with it if you had a note from your doc, which won't be hard to get if you make that kind of jack.

???? where'd you pull that from ?? has nothing to do with money. if you want to wear it, wear it. personal preference.

In Barry defense: Barry got a bad rap with that whole Sammy Sosa thing. I like SS but he started all that talk and Barry got blamed for it.

that was all just a bullshit conversation anyways.....

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


Pete Rose isn't being inducted b/c he broke the rules - he gambled on baseball. not allowed :no:

Key and I agree 100% on this, and until Mr. Rose agrees to publicly admit he gambled on baseball, then his case can be debated; until then he is not worthy of discussion.

Tell me this, if you were Pete Rose, and your name had been sullied as it has, and if you were NOT guilty of gambling, and it HAS cost you thousands if not more than $ 1 million in income, wouldn't you have taken someone to court by now?

Clearly he broke the rules of baseball or he would have gone to court by now to make sure his name was cleared. He agreed to sign a document with MLB back in 1990 (?) that BOTH parties would remain silent on his activities. He now wants to have that agreement thrown out, but yet he still REFUSES to then admit publically he gambled on baseball.

If it turns out he gambled on games and it turns out he threw games (as a manager) on some of his decisions, do you think he should be a HOF'er ? Yes that would not have affected his playing as a player, but wait a minute.....maybe it did? You'll never know...and that is what his debate will be all about. His integrity would always be in doubt and should someone who's integity is in question be allowed to be honoured in the HOF of the game he sullied as a coach and possibly as a player, no matter what his accomplishments on the field? I don't think so.

[Vegas Kid]

Just cuz they added a few inches doesn't mean that the umps actually enforce it. It's supposed to be from the letters to the knees if remeber correctly. I might be wrong.

I'm saying that by having all that protection it allows him and others to lean right over the plate. This doesn't allow the pitchers to throw inside cuz they might hit him. He has nothing to worry about right now, but if he and the others didn't have all that crap on then they wouldn't be leaning in so much, I'll bet you that.

I still don't think it's personal preference. I know the MLB addressed the situation and I'll try to find some stuff on it to back it up.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


in a way that's different - they get paid for that. if someone paid you to smile and talk to people - would you do it ?

Not always, especially when it is for charity. I don't believe they are paid to be there for that.

I never heard of Shef being rude to fans here in So Fla, as he was usually adored here. I still think of him fondly in my memories of his playing time with the Marlins. However I did see Barry Bonds be rude in person.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by shonuff
Now lets go to Barry he shatters Marks recored but u hear hardly a peep out of the media about it??Those same people i talked about before that didnt care about baseball didnt even know that Barry was on the verge of breaking Marks recored.Why da MEDIA!!!!! The MEDIA dosnt care for Barry so he dosnt get any exposure...im sure Barry could care less, but thats just another example of how the MEDIA has power over most people!!!

Fine, it seems Bonds doesn't care about the media, then why do you care? I'm happy he didn't get the attn last year, because he is an arrogant **** and not a nice guy.

He can have as many records as he wants, I still won't like him. I don't dislike him because of a perceived media bias against him. I dislike him because of what I PERSONALLY WITNESSED

If he wants that changed it's up to him, and if he doesn't go out of his way to change it, that's his problem.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
He can have as many records as he wants, I still won't like him. I don't dislike him because of a perceived media bias against him. I dislike him because of what I PERSONALLY WITNESSED

and where did you personally witness this at again ??? were you a fan in the stands that was asking for an autograph, or perhaps a handshake?

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


also refer back up to my post earlier - when Big Mac and Sosa were goin after the record - it had been 40 years since anyone had come remotely close. bonds did it just 3 years later. the media was still around and making a deal about it. it just wasn't blown up like it was earlier b/c it was just done a few years before.

Quite true Key, it's like in 1973 when Secritariat won the Triple Crown. That waas a media frenzy. No horse had won since the Triple Crown since 1948. Just 4 years later there were back to back (1977 and 1978) Triple Crown winners. Not as much media hype.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by shonuff


im talkin about when he was with LA

Since I live in Miami, I don't know what happened when Shef was in LA. I do know he was rather disappointing, I think he only hit over 35 HR's one time, and that was last year, while he was in LA

[shonuff]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever


Fine, it seems Bonds doesn't care about the media, then why do you care? I'm happy he didn't get the attn last year, because he is an arrogant **** and not a nice guy.



Im from fl myself Cocoa i know how much Gary was liked...

Canes u got what i was tryin to say wrong.. I dont care about how much media exposure Barry gets...all i was tryin to say was how much the MEDIA has to do with peoples opnions and how they view somebody... i just have a problem with the MEDIA. Hope that clears up what i was tryin to say.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


so just b/c he has doesn't give to a charity (which i'm sure he does, but for reference sake, we'll say he doesn't) that makes him an ass? it's his money, his life - why should we interfere with it? and when we do, why should we expect him to just let us in?put yourself in his shoes....

Did I say he doesn't give to charities, what I felt was his bad and selfish behavior to the fans that had PAID to meet him at the charity event because of his celebrity and he had a moral obligation to at least speak to the fans who had paid for the right to be there. The event was promoted with the fact he was to be one of the *stars* at the event and that you would *meet Barry Bonds*, then he walks right past folks with a scowl on his face and not even acknowledging our existance.

Before that I was like everyone else at that event, a fan of Barry Bonds, and I didn't believe all I read and heard in the media, but after that day I believed what they were saying. Just because it's the media it doesn't mean EVERYTHING they say is wrong and has a hidden agenda; many times it has validity and as regards to Barry Bonds I agree with them now when they say he's an ass. I have witnessed it in perosn.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


and where did you personally witness this at again ??? were you a fan in the stands that was asking for an autograph, or perhaps a handshake?

Yes, and I had PAID for that right by my required *contribution of $ 25. What I do after that is my right as a consumer, whether or not I was there for a handshake or an autograph or to boo him, I have that right.

My actions are not up for debate here, that is taking the argument away from the main focus. That is that Barry Bonds is a self-absorbed and arrogant **** :D.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by shonuff



Im from fl myself Cocoa i know how much Gary was liked...

Canes u got what i was tryin to say wrong.. I dont care about how much media exposure Barry gets...all i was tryin to say was how much the MEDIA has to do with peoples opnions and how they view somebody... i just have a problem with the MEDIA. Hope that clears up what i was tryin to say.

Shonuff I do understand you, but also read my opinion was NOT made by or shaped by the media. I personally witnessed Barry Bonds bad behavior to the fans at a Celebrity Golf Tournament. Before that I WAS a Bonds fan.

[Vegas Kid]

I don't know about you guys but the media is not what shapes my views on things. I like to think that I'm intelligent enough to hear different sides of things and then make up my own desicion on the subject. I don't believe everything I hear and I'm sure you guys are smart so I doubt you do as well. The media doesn't make him an arrogant **** as Cane says, Barry makes himself an arroagant **** by the way he acts.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever
Did I say he doesn't give to charities, what I felt was his bad and selfish behavior to the fans that had PAID to meet him at the charity event because of his celebrity and he had a moral obligation to at least speak to the fans who had paid for the right to be there. The event was promoted with the fact he was to be one of the *stars* at the event and that you would *meet Barry Bonds*, then he walks right past folks with a scowl on his face and not even acknowledging our existance.

you actually believe that b/c a charity puts on a fund-raiser and says meet barry bonds that you get to meet him just becuase you paid? they suckered you in by labeling their charity with his name - a money making scheme.

[Vegas Kid]

Most charties are a money making scheme. I don't give to them anymore after what happened on 9/11. If I want to donate I'll go find a bum on the street and take him to dinner or something, at least then I know he'll get the money and not some exec.

[shonuff]

Originally posted by Canes4Ever


Shonuff I do understand you, but also read my opinion was NOT made by or shaped by the media. I personally witnessed Barry Bonds bad behavior to the fans at a Celebrity Golf Tournament. Before that I WAS a Bonds fan.


i can understand your opinon canes because youve had a personal encounter with him...im just talkin about people who bad mouth ANY athletic that they have not met or seen in person.

[9natural9]

Sounds like a debate to me CANES, but we won't give these 67 posts a title:)

I think we should discuss Mr. Rose:

Fact: Rose didn't get banished from baseball because he bet on baseball...it was NEVER proven that he bet on baseball. Rose did admit he gambled on everything but baseball. This is why the MLB banished him after signing an agreement stating he could be reinstated after 1 yr. They blackballed Rose and you would have to be a misguided moron not to see that:

1) Rose agreed to be placed on the list of people who were "permanently ineligible". Like others on the list, he would be allowed to apply for re-instatement after one year. Major League Baseball agreed that there would be no ruling as to whether or not Rose bet on baseball.

The agreement also said that Rose acknowledged that Giamatti had treated him fairly, that Giamatti had a factual basis for imposing the penalty, and that Rose could not challenge the agreement in court or otherwise. The exact wording of the two pertinent clauses are:

"Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List."

"Rose will conclude these proceedings before the commissioner without a hearing and the commissioner will not make any formal findings or determinations on any matter including without limitation the allegation that Peter Edward Rose bet on any major league baseball games.... Nothing in this agreement shall be deemed either an admission or denial by Peter Edward Rose of the allegation that he bet on any major league baseball game"


This investigation went underway in 1989, the MLB NEVER had the installment of HOF banishment rule until 1990, specifically to KEEP Rose out!!!

CANES & KEYMASTUR, I am sure you witnessed his efforts on the diamond. If you question his playing integrity on the field, that makes me concerned about your eyesight. There is a reason he was coined..."Mr. Effort"

Oh yeah, Bonds issue resolved I believe...he is great, but doesnt shake hands:)

[Neo]

If i made the amount of money that these athletes do, I'd endure just about anything.....

[9natural9]

It is a very demanding profession...only a select few are talented enough to make this their profession, and I am sure each player said that early on Neo, but playing a plethora of games becomes demanding and the last thing you want is a microphone in your face while your trying to wash your nuts, so you can see your family you havent seen in weeks, after a double header, in which you just lost a heartbreaker...believe me it is demanding, but you are right they are rewarded monetarily, but sometimes thats not enough....personal freedom is a much precious item!!!

[Vegas Kid]

9 are you kidding me? Of all the sports except maybe golf, baseball is probably the least physically demanding unless you are a pitcher or catcher. If anybody should be making the bucks it should be the guys on the ice. As for their personal freedom: They knew that was gone as soon as they decided to join the league. I can't believe you have any pity for these guys. Millions and millions and they can't even sign some autographs at a charity event? Don't get me wrong, there are some players who are outstanding individuals both on and off the field but Barry Bonds is not one of them.

[Jack87]

What kind of cycle do you guys think he's on???

Barry has really packed on the size in the last couple of seasons... He's alot bigger then he was even a few years ago???

[9natural9]

I'll match you number of games in baseball to the number of games in hockey....you do the math....I don't have sympathy, I have respect for them, big difference

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


you actually believe that b/c a charity puts on a fund-raiser and says meet barry bonds that you get to meet him just becuase you paid? they suckered you in by labeling their charity with his name - a money making scheme.

He wasn't the only celebrity, but he WAS the only rude celebrity there. It was in the news the next day, even on Sportscenter on ESPN how he had dissed the people and how embarassed Marino was for inviting him.

[9natural9]

It sure was convenient it was broadcasted NATIONALLY on Sportscenter the next day. Now what would that accomplish, besides negative feedback?

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Sounds like a debate to me CANES, but we won't give these 67 posts a title:)

I think we should discuss Mr. Rose:

Fact: Rose didn't get banished from baseball because he bet on baseball...it was NEVER proven that he bet on baseball. Rose did admit he gambled on everything but baseball. This is why the MLB banished him after signing an agreement stating he could be reinstated after 1 yr. They blackballed Rose and you would have to be a misguided moron not to see that:
[QUOTE]

Ouch, 9Natural9 that is tough talk bro, a misguided moron? That is name calling better for the Jui Jitsu guy or BigBoss (two recent morons on the board)

[QUOTE]
"This investigation went underway in 1989, the MLB NEVER had the installment of HOF banishment rule until 1990, specifically to KEEP Rose out!!!

CANES & KEYMASTUR, I am sure you witnessed his efforts on the diamond. If you question his playing integrity on the field, that makes me concerned about your eyesight. There is a reason he was coined..."Mr. Effort"[QUOTE]

He was called Charlie Hustle, but that is a minor discrepancy :D Yes he was Charlie Hustle on the field while a player, but his gambling debts had gotten very bad by the time he was a manager in the late 1980's, and there is very much a question of whether he still had his complete integrity still intact. He also had reputed ties to underworld Mafioso types, and MLB was not happy about that as well, and supposedly there is a exposé in the Final Rose Report that the Commisioner had tying him to the Mafia.

[QUOTE]
Oh yeah, Bonds issue resolved I believe...he is great, but doesnt shake hands:)

I always agreed with you that Bonds was a great athlete, check my 1st post, I just said I thought he was:

"I hate him; he's smug, cocky and so obviously *in-love* with himself.

Can't deny it though, he's an amazing athlete.

Just wish he wasn't such an asshole to fans and media alike."

9Natural I believe you have stated perfectly the Rose case, and have made my point. Rose SIGNED an agreement with MLB, no one forced him to. He could have stood his ground and taken MLB to court and sued them for slander, because they have cost him a lot of $$$$ but instead he chose to be blackballed.

If he has NOTHING to hide, why would he have signed the agreement? If I had never bet on baseball I would have NEVER signed the agreement, because public pressure would have been on MLB by the fans to change or allow me to be in the HOF after a few years. But Rose has NEVER come out and stated in a court of law that he didn't bet on baseball. If he did that and MLB couldn't prove it, I'd say let him in.

[9natural9]

CANES, you are missing the point. I can offer the rebuttal of then why did MLB sign an agreement that there was NO PROOF he did/didn't gamble. They sugar coated it, served it to Rose and his layers, got it inked, and then ****ed a man that gave everything out on the diamond. Pete Rose didn't LET anyone blackball him, that's obsurd. The injustice done, and in which the audacity of the MLB and their GOD-LIKE judgement imposed on Pete Rose makes me ashamed to be associated with the human race.

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
It is a very demanding profession...only a select few are talented enough to make this their profession, and I am sure each player said that early on Neo, but playing a plethora of games becomes demanding and the last thing you want is a microphone in your face while your trying to wash your nuts, so you can see your family you havent seen in weeks, after a double header, in which you just lost a heartbreaker...believe me it is demanding, but you are right they are rewarded monetarily, but sometimes thats not enough....personal freedom is a much precious item!!!

Hey no one forces him to be a baseball player. He chose this profession, and they are certain responsibilites most players don't have a problem with, and one of those is being a friendly and polite person, especially to the media and to fans.

9Natural I hope you don't have this same kind of attitude when and if you become a professional athlete. What a shame and pity, and its disrespectful to the fans, who in the end, pay your salary.

He can choose to not talk to the media or fans, he doesn't have too. But then I also have the right to call him a stuck-up, self-absorbed and arrogant **** too, especially if he PERSONALLY treated me with disdain, which he did at the charity golf event.

In the end, a professional athlete can choose to go and get a regular job, be a 9-5er like everyone else and remain anonymous. But they like the money and fame that being an athlete brings them, no question for most of them that is the motivation. Barry Bonds wants people to kiss his ass but he doesn't want to give anything back to those people, and his attitude is a shame on pro athletes.

[Vegas Kid]

9 They may play 162 compared to only 80 something but skating for an hour (clock stops frequently) hardly compares to swinging a bat a couple of times every 40 minutes or standing out in the middle of the grass waiting for somebody to hit the ball your way. It's more of a skill sport (baseball) than a physical one. It requires some strength but come on do you really think these guys are up there with football, hockey, even basketball players?

As for Pete Rose, he got screwed. You might as well kick out all the others in every sport who have commited crimes from the hall of fame. ie, OJ, Jim Brown, etc...

[Butch]

BONDS SUCKS!!!!!! I don't care what anyone say's. His massive and awesome hitting (have to give an athlete credit where credit is due) will not help those people up there in the Bay Area in the World Series. Bonds is the only thing that keeps that city on the map besides their trolley cars and ****in' rice.

So to sum it up...GIANTS SUCK!

[Vegas Kid]

What about the 49ers? I don't like them but they're definitely more popular than the San Francisco Treat

[Butch]

The Niners suck as well!!!! Pretty bascially any team from the "Treat Area" suck.

[$uperman]

Originally posted by KeyMastur


as an old coach of mine used to say "there are 3 things that win games - pitching, defense, and timely hitting"

my coach says the same thing. must be a coach thing.... anywayz , i luv how everyone can call bonds an asshole , and say how much of a jerk he is just because shit they read. its like... i heard bonds did this , and i heard bonds said that. well.... im seeing what is swing is doing and that is what i was talking bout in the first place. just the other day i heard micheal vick can throw a football 175 yds when he drinks gatorade , but ill bet my left nut he cant. so what im saying is if he hasnt been an asshole to you then why call him that and not respect his talent

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
It sure was convenient it was broadcasted NATIONALLY on Sportscenter the next day. Now what would that accomplish, besides negative feedback?

But it could have been a chance for him to show the media a different side for a change but he only reinforced the negatives about him.

9Natural9 do you really believe that Bonds is a good guy or are you arguing just for arguments sake?

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by 9natural9
It is a very demanding profession...only a select few are talented enough to make this their profession, and I am sure each player said that early on Neo, but playing a plethora of games becomes demanding and the last thing you want is a microphone in your face while your trying to wash your nuts, so you can see your family you havent seen in weeks, after a double header, in which you just lost a heartbreaker...believe me it is demanding, but you are right they are rewarded monetarily, but sometimes thats not enough....personal freedom is a much precious item!!!

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by Vegas Kid
9 They may play 162 compared to only 80 something but skating for an hour (clock stops frequently) hardly compares to swinging a bat a couple of times every 40 minutes or standing out in the middle of the grass waiting for somebody to hit the ball your way. It's more of a skill sport (baseball) than a physical one. It requires some strength but come on do you really think these guys are up there with football, hockey, even basketball players?

so you think all that running around for 162 games doesn't take a toll on your body? you think you don't have to run or workout during the off-season?

As for Pete Rose, he got screwed. You might as well kick out all the others in every sport who have commited crimes from the hall of fame. ie, OJ, Jim Brown, etc...

how did he get screwed ? he disobeyed the rules. who cares how good he played, he broke the major law of baseball - gambling on it. baseball players sign a little list every single year that says they won't gamble on it.

OJ - so he killed his wife or maybe he didn't - that has nothing to do with the game.

[Vegas Kid]

I didn't say it doesn't take a toll on your body but IMO nowhere compared to the other sports. As for the off season-every other sport has one as well.

In Baseball all they do is wait around for something to happen (hit/bunt) and then the player finally exerts some energy. Like I said before, swinging a bat every 40 min or standing in the outfield watching balls go over your head is not what I call "taking a toll on your body." Pitchers actually do something, and even catchers and 1st baseman but that's really about it. Well the shortstop too. But that's about it.

[9natural9]

Damn, I leave for the evening and I miss all the action.....O.K. let me play catch up...

1)CANES, I'm not saying Bonds is a "great guy", nor am I saying he isn't. I don't know the man, therefore I can't base a hatred on him just because Sportcenter reported he is an asshole to the fans. Furthermore, I will say again, personally I DO NOT agree with his "reported" behavior whatsoever, and if I was to so blessed as to play professional football I would like to pattern such a overall charecter such as Brett Favre. I will say again, I am not saying he is a gem of a person, nor am I saying he isn't. CANES I don't know the guy except for what the media reports, which is obviously most every time a negative slant. My final point is Bonds is responsible for his playing performance, no more, no less. What he does with his "own" time is his right, and should be respected.

2)KEYMASTUR, show me any "LEGAL" documentation that Pete Rose was tried and convicted in a court of law of gambling on baseball games, sorry pal, you can't. Again, Pete Rose was a prick to many people, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his on-field performance. Many fans can't decypher the difference between what the player is responsible for on the field and off, and it clouds the game and pollutes it in my opinion. Athletes, as well as all people in the spotlight, deserve their personal "space", the fans have got to deal with that and move on. I will not be gullible enough to say that Rose was not a gambler, but nowhere, I mean ****ing nowhere does MLB or the HOF have a lawful right to keep him from his just do. The MLB, in conjuction with the HOF, sugarcoated a blackballing plan to banish Rose from baseball and all his on the field honors. It is an injustice even a blind man can see, my friends. Why do you think over 99% of the ball players in the present day, boycotted that pencil neck Jim Grey after his unprofessional media shark feeding attempt on Rose. Because every "real" person involved in the MLB knows that Rose deserves nothing less than an induction into the HOF. He is, and will forever be remembered as "Charlie Hustle", it is just a shame that some no talented pukes (HOF voters) have the audacity to play GOD and keep such a athlete out, because as long as Rose is out of the HOF, the sanctity of what it stands for is squalid and poisoned.

[Mouseofaman]

Originally posted by 9natural9
2)KEYMASTUR, show me any "LEGAL" documentation that Pete Rose was tried and convicted in a court of law of gambling on baseball games, sorry pal, you can't. Again, Pete Rose was a prick to many people, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his on-field performance. Many fans can't decypher the difference between what the player is responsible for on the field and off, and it clouds the game and pollutes it in my opinion. Athletes, as well as all people in the spotlight, deserve their personal "space", the fans have got to deal with that and move on. I will not be gullible enough to say that Rose was not a gambler, but nowhere, I mean ****ing nowhere does MLB or the HOF have a lawful right to keep him from his just do. The MLB, in conjuction with the HOF, sugarcoated a blackballing plan to banish Rose from baseball and all his on the field honors. It is an injustice even a blind man can see, my friends. Why do you think over 99% of the ball players in the present day, boycotted that pencil neck Jim Grey after his unprofessional media shark feeding attempt on Rose. Because every "real" person involved in the MLB knows that Rose deserves nothing less than an induction into the HOF. He is, and will forever be remembered as "Charlie Hustle", it is just a shame that some no talented pukes (HOF voters) have the audacity to play GOD and keep such a athlete out, because as long as Rose is out of the HOF, the sanctity of what it stands for is squalid and poisoned.

check this site :

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/rose/

There's physical evidence there for ya.

Now I'm not saying he doesn't deserver to be in the HOF because of his playing ability - hell yeah he does. Definitely one of the greatest and he should have been there the first time. But, since you aren't allowed to gamble on baseball - Major League Rule 21 - then that's the thing that keeps him out.

[9natural9]

Thank you KEYMASTUR, but that physical evidence is irrelevant for the simple fact that it was NEVER defended against in a courtroom. It doesn't work that way, you don't just present one side. O.J. had a plethora of damning evidence, and it was certain he was guilty, but what was the final outcome. Guilty or not, in the populations eyes, he got the right to state his side. Pete Rose also had that right, but MLB confronted him with the sugarcoated deal. How come we never heard what was said behind close doors...I'll tell you why, there was reliable sources that state MLB told Rose "your Pete Rose, who's gonna keep you out of the game more than a year" I would call that misleading and sugarcoating. Also, I have also used this site in the past years to do research on the book I am writing about this subject...but more importantly read the below agreement that was signed......it solidifies my point.....please pay especially close attention to subject B) and and subject C). It clearly states that nothing in that Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of
the rights under Major League Rule 15(c) to apply for reinstatement.
Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise
contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the
Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any
application for reinstatement.

This simply means that he has a right to be reinstated, after the agreement was signed by a smiling and sugarcoated MLB executive, MLB made it known that he will NEVER have that chance. That my friend is an injustice and should be recognized by the simplistic of minds.

Also, to prove my final point that he was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER tried and convicted for BETTING ON BASEBALL GAMES read C). It clearly states that the MLB is neither accusing/not accusing Rose, therefore making him neither gulity, or NOT ****ING GUILTY which indicates to an intelligent person that he got banned for being neither. That is an injustice, believe it, accept it, and swallow it folks. It is an underlying stinch to the sanctity of the game, and I plan on making it more of a noticeable eyesore for the MLB. The executives of the game are no better than terrorist to me. They infiltrate, and destroy what is known to many to be Americas pastime, not for the love of the game, but sadly so more for the money and power.




THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to
Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs
that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary
sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive
authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to
resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept
the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.

a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible
in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible
List.

b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of
the rights under Major League Rule 15(c) to apply for reinstatement.
Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise
contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the
Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any
application for reinstatement.

c. Nothing in this agreement shall be deemed either an
admission or a denial by Peter Edward Rose of the allegation
that he bet on any Major League Baseball game.

Neither the Commissioner nor Peter Edward Rose shall be
prevented by this agreement from making any public statement
relating to this matter so long as no such public statement
contradicts the terms of this agreement and resolution.

This document contains the entire agreement of the
parties and represents the entire resolution of the matter of
Peter Edward Rose before the Commissioner.


Agreed to and resolved this 23rd day of August 1989,

(signed) (signed)
Peter Edward Rose A. Bartlett Giamatti
Commissioner of Baseball

Witnessed by: Witnessed by:
(signed) (signed)
Reuven K. Katz, Esquire (Fay Vincent Jr.)
Katz, Teller, Brant & Hild


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[9natural9]

see above post

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Damn, I leave for the evening and I miss all the action.....O.K. let me play catch up...

1)CANES, I'm not saying Bonds is a "great guy", nor am I saying he isn't. I don't know the man, therefore I can't base a hatred on him just because Sportcenter reported he is an asshole to the fans. Furthermore, I will say again, personally I DO NOT agree with his "reported" behavior whatsoever, and if I was to so blessed as to play professional football I would like to pattern such a overall charecter such as Brett Favre. I will say again, I am not saying he is a gem of a person, nor am I saying he isn't. CANES I don't know the guy except for what the media reports, which is obviously most every time a negative slant. My final point is Bonds is responsible for his playing performance, no more, no less. What he does with his "own" time is his right, and should be respected.

2)KEYMASTUR, show me any "LEGAL" documentation that Pete Rose was tried and convicted in a court of law of gambling on baseball games, sorry pal, you can't. Again, Pete Rose was a prick to many people, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his on-field performance. Many fans can't decypher the difference between what the player is responsible for on the field and off, and it clouds the game and pollutes it in my opinion. Athletes, as well as all people in the spotlight, deserve their personal "space", the fans have got to deal with that and move on. I will not be gullible enough to say that Rose was not a gambler, but nowhere, I mean ****ing nowhere does MLB or the HOF have a lawful right to keep him from his just do. The MLB, in conjuction with the HOF, sugarcoated a blackballing plan to banish Rose from baseball and all his on the field honors. It is an injustice even a blind man can see, my friends. Why do you think over 99% of the ball players in the present day, boycotted that pencil neck Jim Grey after his unprofessional media shark feeding attempt on Rose. Because every "real" person involved in the MLB knows that Rose deserves nothing less than an induction into the HOF. He is, and will forever be remembered as "Charlie Hustle", it is just a shame that some no talented pukes (HOF voters) have the audacity to play GOD and keep such a athlete out, because as long as Rose is out of the HOF, the sanctity of what it stands for is squalid and poisoned.

Well I am not basing my views on Bonds on what I saw on SportsCenter, I witnessed it IN PERSON, then saw a FACTUAL report on SportsCenter. Lets not assume that EVERY report you hear from the media is all hype and a crock of shit. I too didn't believe what the media was saying about him and maybe don't still believe all the bad pub, but I don't dismiss it either as an anti-media pias against him anymore either. I think if someone has had as many ROUGH reports as he has had, many of them have a lot of validity.

As for your crying foul about Rose, why aren't you crying about Shoeless Joe Jackson, maybe a man even MORE screwed by MLB ?

[Canes4Ever]

Originally posted by 9natural9
Also, I have also used this site in the past years to do research on the book I am writing about this subject...It is an underlying stinch to the sanctity of the game, and I plan on making it more of a noticeable eyesore for the MLB. The executives of the game are no better than terrorist to me. They infiltrate, and destroy what is known to many to be Americas pastime, not for the love of the game, but sadly so more for the money and power.



And here all along I had you pegged wrong 9Natural9 and that is my mistake. :bang: I thought you were just a football jock, and that was my bad. :blush:

You are a very intelligent and passionate baseball fan, and a very bright young man in general.

Kudos to you my friend, big kudos to you :clapping:

[9natural9]

CANES, once again I will say...Bonds has obviously not been the angel that people would like him to be...granted, but he should have that right to be a prick, it sucks, but I enjoy personal freedoms, why can'y he.

As far as Shoeless Joe is concerned, that is exactly the point I am trying to make with the MLB executives. They make these GOD DAMN - LIKE rulings that have no legal basis. It is bullshit. I will cry just as foul about Shoeless Joe, but the sad part is Joe is dead and will never know his HOF outcome, and I don't want it to happen to another great one before his life expires. MLB will forever be cursed until they eradicate this hidden shame on the game.

[9natural9]

Excellent reply, BigGunz, I like the professionalism in which you presented your opinion...just to explain more in depth my stance...

To be honest, I am a Pete Rose fan, I believe the passion in which he played the game has faded out, in general, of the present day player. Many might say that this is the driving force behind my comments, not really. I would be uphauled if this injustice happened to any ball player.

The ever-so repetitive point I have been trying to present is....MLB absolutely loathed Pete Rose, even before the allegations. Let's just say he was that generations Ty Cobb, or possibly this generations Barry Bonds, in comparison to media hatred, and executive thumbing of the nose. As you, and many other critics stated, if he was innocent why did he sign the agreement? That is a valid possible "proof of guilt" question. My rebuttle is just as valid. Why did MLB sign it. They wanted Rose OUT of baseball completely. If the MLB had so much damning evidence, then why did they settle on a shady agreement in which it WILL sooner or later be torn apart, God willing, allowing Rose back into the game? I'll tell you why, because the majority of the evidence was "he said/she said" bullshit, and that WILL NOT hold up in court against such a harsh penalty against a beloved player. For example, Shoeless Joe Jackson was in almost the exact predicament, but the MLB took him to court, twice. Both cases were found in Shoeless Joe's favor, INNOCENT by jury on all charges. MLB executives went against court proceedings and banished Joe. It almost ruined baseball, and in my opinion, it did in a way.

Now the reason MLB signed this agreement was not to go easy on Rose, and keep his name from being dragged in the mud. That had already been done. The MLB signed this agreement knowing damn well that they could never beat Rose in the coutroom against a jury. Impossible, just like in the Shoeless Joe case, the outstanding jury looked past charecter and judged the facts, concluding innocence.

MLB spun a web around the word loophole and concocted this bullshit agreement, sugar-coated it for Rose from which one reliable source was told that the prior to the signing told Rose that there is in "NO CHANCE IN HELL the fans would allow you (Rose) to be banished a lifetime from baseball, maybe a few years, but not a lifetime." To be blunt, the bastards lied to side-step the courtroom....

I am yet to rest my case, until the MLB executives own up to what Rose, Shoeless Joe, and the fans deserve.

[9natural9]

strike one, strike two, bump three

[BIG_JDAWG]

barry bonds is awesome. just because he doesn't feel like he has to make the media a priority in his life, doesn't mean he is a dick. just imagine all the pressure that pro athletes are put under. they dont need the stress of handling the media while trying to perform and do their job. some guys can do it, some can't. and bonds just doesnt want to have any part of it. and i look up to him in that way, because he doesn't do what everyone else wants him to do. he is his own man. i will always have respect for him



Big J