stocky121
08-03-2006, 11:31 AM
THE UNOFFICIAL HOW TO DO PCT THREAD
first off i would like to say that people keep asking which PCT should i do for a sust cycle (this is an exapmle) PCT is the same no mater what you take there is no specific PCT set for different compounds. If you are having a long cycle then the PCT will be longer in length you need to find out whats the best that works for you.
then we need to understand why we lose our gains during PCT first of the decrease in water that your body will hold because of much less amortization very low, to none existent test levels, high estrogen level's and high cortisol levels.
with any pct you want to use you want to essay yourself into it this is the first thing i always do to help my PCT if you using a longer ester like test ethanate then move to short one after you finished like test prop start this the day after your last shot of long estered test. Until 3 day's out from pct you should have already worked out when you PCT should start before you started to cycle. also if your using another compound that has a shorter half life E.G. var or winny then run it 24 hours before PCT starts no problem.
I'am not going to go into the different types of pct you can use because there are some many correct ways you just need to find out what work's for you i have done a 20 week cycle with out HCG now i'am not saying this is what you should do but i recovered fine without it.
IMO PCT should consist of one serm and one AI at the very least
one reason why i feel a AI should be used not only will it reduce estrogen in your body to get your test levels up quicker. But most of the bad side affects associated with PCT come from the high estrogen levels. acne depression gyno are just to name a few.
here is a list of some of the AI's and SERMS you can use these are just suggested doses and lengths and will differ from person to person.
AI's:
Arimidex: 3-4 weeks @ .25mg or .5mg ed
Letro: 3 weeks @ .25 or .5mg ed
Aromasin: 3-4 weeks @ 20-25mg ed
proviron 3-4 weeks @ 25mg-50mg ed
SERMS:
Clomiphene: 4 weeks @ 100mg ed first 2 weeks, 50mg ed last 2 weeks.
Tamoxifen: 4-6 weeks @ 20mg ed (40mg ed for first 2 weeks if you wish)
DIET this is so important that i carnet stress this enough. your body is in a VERY catabolic state low test levels high estrogen and cortisol levels. You need to eat more calories and more protein to give your body the fighting chance it need's to hold onto as much muscle as possible. IMO unless your competing putting on a bit extra BF should not be a problem and can be cut post PCT when your levels are back to normal.
CARDIO shall i still do cardio during PCT yes this is still important not only dose it keep fat down but also helps to strengthen the most important muscle and keep you fit. u can in PCT tho do less i would do 30mins at 65%-70% your maxim hate rate. this is very important to keep in these levels and not burn of any muscle i would do this a couple of days a week but everyones different.
TRAINING what i need to do is train harder for less time during PCT i might fit 60mins into 45mins try and not over training i have to up my intensity and this is very hard with low test levels i know this but you need to try get into the gym and out as quick as possible to get more food into you. keep cortisol down also because this will be raised during PCT and it will be a lot easyer to overtrain.
none anabolic steroids I.E. IGF1 SLIN HGH
these are very good tools to use during PCT because they wont hinder your recovery of HPTA yet will still help keep you anabolic
dont run igf1 and slin together IMO take igf1 during your initial 4 week PCT then 4 week's of slin straight after i also use these to bridge to my next cycle slin is very cheap yet DANGOURS and should not be taken lightly
HGH can also be used for a bridge and can be run with slin but if your using it with IGF1 reduce the dosage of igf1 if your administrating HGH during your pct and bridging.
dosages for these i'am not going to go into it personal preference plus it's been covered in the HGH SLIN IGF1 forum
CORTISOL
this is another main reasons that we lose muscle during PCT. because of an increase in protein catabolism. your test levels are very low at this point so your at your weakest.
causes of cortisol?
stress (this is probley the main one)
alchool
low test
what helps reduce cortisol?
clen
igf1
hgh
slin
phospidatly serine dosage approx 800mg
vit c dosage 3 gram plus
L-tyrosine 3 grams plus
HCG
Now there is lot's and lot's and lot's of way's to use HCG in your protocol the best way i feel is to use it the last 2-3 week's of your cycle up until PCT at 250iu per day
you can also run it thorough out your cycle some people use it the week at the halfway point of your cycle. Some people use it twice a week all the way through. you just need to find out what work's for you i'am just giving suggestions but keep the dosage low 250iu to 500iu per day no more.
BLOOD WORK
what to get checked out when you do get checked
> testosterone, total, free and weekly bound
> TSH
> cortisol, total
> t3, free
> t4, free
> igf1
> igfbp-3
> dhea sulphate
> hemoglobin A1C
> fasting insulin
> cbc
> comprehensive metabolic panel
> lipid panal
> GGT (important liver value)
> PSA
in my eyes you should get tested before the start of a cycle to make sure everthing is good to start. half way through a cycle to make sure everything is still ok especially if it's a long cycle and also about 4 week's after PCT to make sure your levels have come to the same point that it was before you started.
PROHORMONE PCT
Most of us, who have been on this board for some time, know that you need a PCT after a PP or SD cycle. New members ask why we need to take all of these substances after a cycle. During a PP or SD cycle, your natural testosterone production can shut down. For many individuals the reduced natural test while put a halt to your sperm production. This is a problem if you want to have a child. After you finish your cycle, it can take months before your body starts to produce test on its own. During this time, your strength levels will diminish, your body fat levels will rise, and you could suffer from depression and have the temptation to jump on again. This would only make matters worse.
What might a typical PCT look like?
Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)
Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.
What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.
Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate.
For those of you wanting to make sure your sperm count and motility are up to par, here are some supplements and research chemicals that can help: Arginine, Zinc, Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10, Flaxseed Oil, L-carnitine, Selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E, DHEA, Panax Ginseng, Astragalus, Sarsaparilla, and Clomid. This is more of a concern for those wanting to father a child.
i would like to thank c-bino and papi93 for helpping me out with this thread
first off i would like to say that people keep asking which PCT should i do for a sust cycle (this is an exapmle) PCT is the same no mater what you take there is no specific PCT set for different compounds. If you are having a long cycle then the PCT will be longer in length you need to find out whats the best that works for you.
then we need to understand why we lose our gains during PCT first of the decrease in water that your body will hold because of much less amortization very low, to none existent test levels, high estrogen level's and high cortisol levels.
with any pct you want to use you want to essay yourself into it this is the first thing i always do to help my PCT if you using a longer ester like test ethanate then move to short one after you finished like test prop start this the day after your last shot of long estered test. Until 3 day's out from pct you should have already worked out when you PCT should start before you started to cycle. also if your using another compound that has a shorter half life E.G. var or winny then run it 24 hours before PCT starts no problem.
I'am not going to go into the different types of pct you can use because there are some many correct ways you just need to find out what work's for you i have done a 20 week cycle with out HCG now i'am not saying this is what you should do but i recovered fine without it.
IMO PCT should consist of one serm and one AI at the very least
one reason why i feel a AI should be used not only will it reduce estrogen in your body to get your test levels up quicker. But most of the bad side affects associated with PCT come from the high estrogen levels. acne depression gyno are just to name a few.
here is a list of some of the AI's and SERMS you can use these are just suggested doses and lengths and will differ from person to person.
AI's:
Arimidex: 3-4 weeks @ .25mg or .5mg ed
Letro: 3 weeks @ .25 or .5mg ed
Aromasin: 3-4 weeks @ 20-25mg ed
proviron 3-4 weeks @ 25mg-50mg ed
SERMS:
Clomiphene: 4 weeks @ 100mg ed first 2 weeks, 50mg ed last 2 weeks.
Tamoxifen: 4-6 weeks @ 20mg ed (40mg ed for first 2 weeks if you wish)
DIET this is so important that i carnet stress this enough. your body is in a VERY catabolic state low test levels high estrogen and cortisol levels. You need to eat more calories and more protein to give your body the fighting chance it need's to hold onto as much muscle as possible. IMO unless your competing putting on a bit extra BF should not be a problem and can be cut post PCT when your levels are back to normal.
CARDIO shall i still do cardio during PCT yes this is still important not only dose it keep fat down but also helps to strengthen the most important muscle and keep you fit. u can in PCT tho do less i would do 30mins at 65%-70% your maxim hate rate. this is very important to keep in these levels and not burn of any muscle i would do this a couple of days a week but everyones different.
TRAINING what i need to do is train harder for less time during PCT i might fit 60mins into 45mins try and not over training i have to up my intensity and this is very hard with low test levels i know this but you need to try get into the gym and out as quick as possible to get more food into you. keep cortisol down also because this will be raised during PCT and it will be a lot easyer to overtrain.
none anabolic steroids I.E. IGF1 SLIN HGH
these are very good tools to use during PCT because they wont hinder your recovery of HPTA yet will still help keep you anabolic
dont run igf1 and slin together IMO take igf1 during your initial 4 week PCT then 4 week's of slin straight after i also use these to bridge to my next cycle slin is very cheap yet DANGOURS and should not be taken lightly
HGH can also be used for a bridge and can be run with slin but if your using it with IGF1 reduce the dosage of igf1 if your administrating HGH during your pct and bridging.
dosages for these i'am not going to go into it personal preference plus it's been covered in the HGH SLIN IGF1 forum
CORTISOL
this is another main reasons that we lose muscle during PCT. because of an increase in protein catabolism. your test levels are very low at this point so your at your weakest.
causes of cortisol?
stress (this is probley the main one)
alchool
low test
what helps reduce cortisol?
clen
igf1
hgh
slin
phospidatly serine dosage approx 800mg
vit c dosage 3 gram plus
L-tyrosine 3 grams plus
HCG
Now there is lot's and lot's and lot's of way's to use HCG in your protocol the best way i feel is to use it the last 2-3 week's of your cycle up until PCT at 250iu per day
you can also run it thorough out your cycle some people use it the week at the halfway point of your cycle. Some people use it twice a week all the way through. you just need to find out what work's for you i'am just giving suggestions but keep the dosage low 250iu to 500iu per day no more.
BLOOD WORK
what to get checked out when you do get checked
> testosterone, total, free and weekly bound
> TSH
> cortisol, total
> t3, free
> t4, free
> igf1
> igfbp-3
> dhea sulphate
> hemoglobin A1C
> fasting insulin
> cbc
> comprehensive metabolic panel
> lipid panal
> GGT (important liver value)
> PSA
in my eyes you should get tested before the start of a cycle to make sure everthing is good to start. half way through a cycle to make sure everything is still ok especially if it's a long cycle and also about 4 week's after PCT to make sure your levels have come to the same point that it was before you started.
PROHORMONE PCT
Most of us, who have been on this board for some time, know that you need a PCT after a PP or SD cycle. New members ask why we need to take all of these substances after a cycle. During a PP or SD cycle, your natural testosterone production can shut down. For many individuals the reduced natural test while put a halt to your sperm production. This is a problem if you want to have a child. After you finish your cycle, it can take months before your body starts to produce test on its own. During this time, your strength levels will diminish, your body fat levels will rise, and you could suffer from depression and have the temptation to jump on again. This would only make matters worse.
What might a typical PCT look like?
Weeks 1-4 100mg of Clomid (SERM) and 25mg of Aromasin (AI)
Why not nolva? Superdrol and pheraplex are progestins which means that means that nolva can cause or make existing gyno worse. Macrophage69alpha (supplement guru): Clomid does not upregulate the PgR (as nolva does). After speaking with Macro, he recommended stacking clomid (SERM) and aromasin (AI) together. The aromasin is not supposed to have a negative impact on blood lipid levels, like other AI's can.
What are some support supplements that I should be concerned with? Go to the supplement forum and examine, closely, Bryan2's stickie on cholesterol, liver, and blood pressure support supplements.
Because SD and PP are progestins, they can be hard on your libido and your ability to have erections, during PCT. I've found that 800-1200mg of tongkat ali to be a good choice for libido purposes. As for the ability to have erections, then the cialis (or viagra) is the only way to go. I prefer cialis because it stays in your system for 36 hours. This lets you be more spontaneous, which your woman will appreciate.
For those of you wanting to make sure your sperm count and motility are up to par, here are some supplements and research chemicals that can help: Arginine, Zinc, Vitamin C, Coenzyme Q10, Flaxseed Oil, L-carnitine, Selenium, Vitamin B12, Vitamin E, DHEA, Panax Ginseng, Astragalus, Sarsaparilla, and Clomid. This is more of a concern for those wanting to father a child.
i would like to thank c-bino and papi93 for helpping me out with this thread