Proviron with PCT or Not? So many mixed reviews

[pit_bully]

I am in PCT still trying to fully recover. Ive kept a lot of gains and was suffering post cycle depression for a few weeks, but that all seems fine now. The problem Im having is I have no LIBIDO! If I get it up its not as full as normal. Ive tried Cialis and was able to perform,but it was nothing special and I got the worst headache the next day from it. I read to lower the dose and I did ,but I start feeling different (Headache coming on) 5mins after taking it. Ive been reading on how good Proviron is for the Libido, but Ive read so many different posts that swear to run it during PCT and an equal # on NOT to run during PCT. Whats the deal with that? Have the peeps that used it feel that it helped them? Has anyone not ran it during PCT and ran it on PCT for a different cycle? I dont want to add it if it stops HPTA recovery. I would think my nuts are working cause I can get off when I do get it up ,but Im not to sure how that all works to begin with. I just sem to have NO intrest in it. :scratch:

[axemurderer187]

Proviron is a SERM just like armidex so YES you can run this durring your PCT and you should also run an AI like clomid. If your just looking to get your Libido back then Proviron will assist you with this. Some people like to run the Proviron throughout their entire cycle. I don't like to do this as it has anti-estrogen properties which I don't like in my system while I'm ON unless I need them. Some also say Proviron has an androgenic properities like Winstrol but I have used it before and really didn't get that effect. I ran at 25mg (kinda low) so maybe that's why. Anyhow not too bust your balls or anything but you should have thought of this happening before. Remember, orderiing your PCT and ancillaries are just as important as orderinig your juice. Recovery from AAS in PCT is not only to keep as much gains as possible but to get your body working like it was before you were juicin. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Good luck

Axe

[axemurderer187]

I would also suggest HCG if you can get it.

[hugovsilva]

WHAT!? Proviron is not a SERM, it is an aromatase blocker. Winstrol, although is a DHT derivate, is mostly anabolic than androgenic. Proviron is a great adition to any cycle, and you can also use it during PCT since it does not inhibit HPTA. I assume that if you did your pct you ran hcg and nolvadex (which is a SERM). Forget about the clomid. Proviron did wonders to my libido at 50mg ed. I bet it will do the same for yours.


Proviron is a SERM just like armidex so YES you can run this durring your PCT and you should also run an AI like clomid. If your just looking to get your Libido back then Proviron will assist you with this. Some people like to run the Proviron throughout their entire cycle. I don't like to do this as it has anti-estrogen properties which I don't like in my system while I'm ON unless I need them. Some also say Proviron has an androgenic properities like Winstrol but I have used it before and really didn't get that effect. I ran at 25mg (kinda low) so maybe that's why. Anyhow not too bust your balls or anything but you should have thought of this happening before. Remember, orderiing your PCT and ancillaries are just as important as orderinig your juice. Recovery from AAS in PCT is not only to keep as much gains as possible but to get your body working like it was before you were juicin. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Good luck

Axe

[shrpskn]

^^Agree with hugo...

[Streaker]

Have you had any blood work done? This is the only way you will no if you have recovered.

[pit_bully]

Anyhow not too bust your balls or anything but you should have thought of this happening before. Remember, orderiing your PCT and ancillaries are just as important as orderinig your juice. Recovery from AAS in PCT is not only to keep as much gains as possible but to get your body working like it was before you were juicin. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Good luck

Axe

I started off my post with " I am in PCT" Of course I ordered everything Ive just lost Libido since. I didnt plan on losing libido it just happened. Im sure not all will agree with the PCT I have chosen, but someone will always disagree with any PCT protocal.

1-2 HCG 250IU per day with A-dex & letro
3-6 100mg Clomid and 20mg Nolva. 100MCG split bi-latterally IGF1-LR3



I have did this before and it worked, but maybe cause Im a few years older now that Im having a harder time bouncing back. I just want to get the libido back and make sure my GF dont go anywhere else for it. You dig?

Anyways thats what I was thinking maybe just a low dose to get it all working. With my continued PCT of course. I just see that proviron is a steroid so it scares me to think about adding a steroid when Im not fully recovered yet.

[pit_bully]

How long for proviron to Kick In after taking it? Weeks, days?

[shrpskn]

Proviron has a very short half-life...full benefits should be obtained from its use in a matter of a couple days or less.

[ecivon]

1-2 HCG 250IU per day with A-dex & letro
3-6 100mg Clomid and 20mg Nolva. 100MCG split bi-latterally IGF1-LR3


Your pct looks fine. I'm not certain I would have included the letro. HCG looks a little light. 500iu's ed for three weeks might have given you better results and the igf was fine. Get a hold of some proviron and run 50mgs ed for 4 weeks. And then be patient. Some times it can take a little while to get your system back and your boys chompin' at the bit.

[Jakspro]

Increases libido and isn't suppressive at 50mgs but does Proviron actually help with recovery? My thoughts are that if you include it in your PCT would it be hard to tell if you fully recovered cause the Proviron increases your libido? Wouldn't that kinda trick you to thinking your back to normal? I guess BW would be a sure way to tell, but does Proviron increase your actual production of Test? So would you then take BW while still taking Pro, or after to see if you need to do another PCT to recover fully if Test scores are under par? Like Pit said, I've searched but still kinda curious on the subject...

[pit_bully]

Your pct looks fine. I'm not certain I would have included the letro. HCG looks a little light. 500iu's ed for three weeks might have given you better results and the igf was fine. Get a hold of some proviron and run 50mgs ed for 4 weeks. And then be patient. Some times it can take a little while to get your system back and your boys chompin' at the bit.
Thanks the Letro was still in the beginning cause I tapered off of it so I didnt get the estrogen snap back that has been noted to occur after sudden discontinuation of Letro. I do know that Letro can kill sex drive, but I was fine while "on" of course I had test to help. I just ordered some proviron tonight so hopefully this "source" will get it to me quick.

[pit_bully]

Increases libido and isn't suppressive at 50mgs but does Proviron actually help with recovery? My thoughts are that if you include it in your PCT would it be hard to tell if you fully recovered cause the Proviron increases your libido? Wouldn't that kinda trick you to thinking your back to normal? I guess BW would be a sure way to tell, but does Proviron increase your actual production of Test? So would you then take BW while still taking Pro, or after to see if you need to do another PCT to recover fully if Test scores are under par? Like Pit said, I've searched but still kinda curious on the subject...
That exactly what Ive been wondering, but I plan on just tapering down to 25mg then eventually off. I will let all know what the results are.

[shrpskn]

Increases libido and isn't suppressive at 50mgs but does Proviron actually help with recovery? My thoughts are that if you include it in your PCT would it be hard to tell if you fully recovered cause the Proviron increases your libido? Wouldn't that kinda trick you to thinking your back to normal? I guess BW would be a sure way to tell, but does Proviron increase your actual production of Test? So would you then take BW while still taking Pro, or after to see if you need to do another PCT to recover fully if Test scores are under par? Like Pit said, I've searched but still kinda curious on the subject...

I've successfully ran Proviron and fully recovered by end of PCT when I've incorporated 50mg/ed into my PCT protocol...and yes, I have lab work done to verify my recovery.

Here's AR's bit on Proviron:

Proviron (mesterolone) is basically an orally active DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) preparation. For comparision, we can think of some other orally prepared DHT compounds like Winstrol, Anavar, etc& Those both act very similarly in mechanism to Proviron, but a more accurate way to think of this compound is as something like "Oral Masteron." As I´m sure you noticed, their anabolic/androgenic ratio is very similar.Remember, DHT is 3 to 4 times as androgenic as testosterone and is, of course, incapable of forming estrogen. Also, Proviron is quite unique in that a simple look at it´s 4-ring structure will show us that it is not going to be too liver toxic, since it is not c17-Alpha-Alkylated, as many orals are& this modification (lacking in Proviron) makes drugs more liver toxic. Proviron has a 1-metyhl group added, instead. Looks pretty great on paper, right? Well, as usual, things tend to look better on paper than they do in the body. Your body has a negative feedback loop which prevents your body from having too much DHT floating around(if you´ve been paying attention up to now from reading my other stuff, you already know this). An excess of DHT will eventually be changed into another (largely not anabolic) compound.
And of course, being a DHT-based compound, this stuff isn´t going to be great for female athletes to use. Virilization (development of male sexual characteristics) is going to be a concern for women daring enough to try this stuff. My advice is that there is much better, safer compounds for female athletes and bodybuilders to use.
So lets go back to the comparison with being some sort of "Oral Masteron"& basically since Proviron is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, and also has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldn´t even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing it´s dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking. It should also be noted that Proviron also binds very well to SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin& a hormone responsible for reducing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body)(1). As a matter of fact, in the last study I read, it bound to SHBG better than any other drug studied. Also, I´d like to note that Proviron bound to the Anabolic Receptor better than any oral anabolic (except for the insanely toxic MethylTrienolone), having an ability to bind to the AR better then testosterone, but not as well as Nandrolone (1). Unfortunately, as we know, DHT also has a high affinity for binding to receptors in the scalp and prostate, causing some possible nasty side effects, like male pattern baldness and prostate enlargement. It´s important to remember that DHT and DHT derived compounds are used quite successfully to treat gynocomastia, and in this area, Proviron is no different.
Let´s delve into some of the positive points of this drug before we go any farther. Androgen Receptors are found in fat cells as well as muscle cells(5), and whilethey act on the AR in muscle cells to promote growth, they also act directly on the AR in fat cells to affect fat burning.(9)(3) The stronger the androgen binds to the A.R, the higher the lipolytic (fat burning) effect on adipose (fat)tissue(6)(2). As if that´s not enough good news, some steroids (notably, testosterone) even increase the numbers of A.R. in muscle and fat (9)(7). Thus, if you are taking a simple stack of proviron and testosterone, you´ll have more of the test you shoot as free testosterone floating around building muscle (compliments of the Proviron), more androgen receptors to be bound to (compliments of your testosterone) by your Proviron, thus causing more fat loss. Testosterone and Proviron are a very nice synergistic stack, pretty nearly an "ideal" stack of an oral and injectable, because both drugs will actually act to enhance the effect of the other.
So what we have here is a steroid which can basically make other steroids more effective by preventing their conversion into estrogen, as well as increasing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body. This of course all provides a more hardened and quality look to muscles. Proviron is very much a "synergistic" drug in this respect, and it´s inclusion in any cycle would definitely make all of the other steroids perform better, and provide better gains. This is all compounded by the fact that proviron is a very lipolytic (fat-burning) drug.
Now, as if all of this weren´t enough, let´s talk about how Proviron affects your HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis)& the thing that regulates the male hormonal system. When a reasonable dose of this stuff is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels (6). Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Leutenizing Hormone (LH) are two hormones which send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH (10)! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact. This points to a novel use for this compound during Post-Cycyle-Therapy for a non-suppressive "bridge" between cycles. In fact, in yet another study, administration of Proviron (basically the same dose as in the last study) produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL (Prolactin Levels& you want those to remain low). (8).
Unfortunately, this stuff is not too hot on it´s own. It´s a good drug for inclusion in a cycle containing testosterone and other armoatizable steroids, and it´s a good drug for a possible "bridge" between cycles. Alone, however, as an androgenic or anabolic agent, it´s effects have been very weak in both studies (9), as well as in the experience of everyone I spoke to about it. This may be due to the addition of the 1-methyl-group to DHT, which makes this stuff orally active. Whatever the case, as a stand alone anabolic or androgenic compound, it´s not too impressive.


References:

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
APMIS. 2000 Dec;108(12):838-46.
(Xu X, et al. "The effects of androgens on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells." Endocrinology 1990 Feb;126(2):1229 ).
J Anim Sci. 1992 Nov;70(11):3381-90.
Am J Physiol. 1998 Jun;274(6 Pt 1):C1645-52.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8.
J Appl. Physiol.94 1153-61 2003
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.
[Androgen substitution in the andrological disease picture] Andrologia. 1983 May-Jun;15(3):283-6. German.
The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study). Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.

[thekaydense]

WHAT!? Proviron is not a SERM, it is an aromatase blocker. Winstrol, although is a DHT derivate, is mostly anabolic than androgenic. Proviron is a great adition to any cycle, and you can also use it during PCT since it does not inhibit HPTA. I assume that if you did your pct you ran hcg and nolvadex (which is a SERM). Forget about the clomid. Proviron did wonders to my libido at 50mg ed. I bet it will do the same for yours.

this is from pub med

The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.
Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment

[bmuhtneerg]

I've used proviron during pct along with nolva and aromasin and recovered well. It's def way better to use it than not. AR profile says it doesn't affect your hpta at a dose of up to 100-150mg/day and can actually help. The next post says it will decrease test levels at a dose of 300-450mg/day. Most use 50mg/day for 4 weeks therefore you shouldn't notice any problems and it will help libido when you come off. I imagine it would affect test levels at 6-9 times that dosage but then again that would make sense for such a long period at that dosage. Some say anavar doesn't affect test levels that much at 40mg/day however 250mg per day would def affect your levels. Makes sense doesn't it???

[Nate Dawg]

I use proviron in pct and notice no suppression from it at all. I dont have the study on hand, but a few months back I found one on pubmed that showed no suppression of FSH/LH or testosterone levels, and increased free test levels.