T Increase

[juicelee]

Hey bros,

If I was to take a SERM or AI...and I was going to use one solely on the basis of increasing natural test the most, in the safest way possible, and not to recover from a cycle, Which would you guys chose? A-Dex, Novla, Clomid, Letro, Exemestane....

Thanks for you for your time

P.S. I was looking into using one for HRT purposes...(Sorry I wasnt sure whether to put this in the HRT forum or here)

[shifty_git]

Id personally go for an AI - will stop the aromatize process so will keep the test to estro ratio more favourable and wont waste any natty test.

A SERM will block the estro receptors, but wont cut down the free estro or loss of test used in the aromatize process.

[39+1]

Hey bros,

If I was to take a SERM or AI...and I was going to use one solely on the basis of increasing natural test the most, in the safest way possible, and not to recover from a cycle, Which would you guys chose? A-Dex, Novla, Clomid, Letro, Exemestane....

Thanks for you for your time

P.S. I was looking into using one for HRT purposes...(Sorry I wasnt sure whether to put this in the HRT forum or here)

I just read on tomax and it doesnt have the effect on Lh and FSH it promoted to have. the clomi on the other hand does but optic problems may occure. You also have to be carefull which ai you run wiht tamox because i think L-dex but it could be the aromisin but i think it the dex reduces the affect of tamox or some shit like that. i screwed up and run bohth together during cyle so i was pissed. you gotta read man

[juicelee]

thanks for the input guys, well from what I have read it looks as tho L-dex or letro is the way to go for increased test...see I have bad eye sight to begin with so im a bit skeptical about clomid

[BigMC]

I was just about to start a thread similiar to this but I will just jump in with you guys. I want to do the same thing accept im wanting to get my sex drive headed up. I was thinking clomid + proviron. But you guys think an AI like letro will increase natural test more then clomid? What if your natural test is already sub-par. Will letro actually increase what test you have or does it really on work by blocking the aromtose factor if your test. levels are already as high as the body can handle?

[BigMC]

Did some quick research and found a great article...Check this out.

Clomid and Nolvadex


I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.

Conclusion


To summarize the above research succinctly, Nolvadex is the more purely anti-estrogenic of the two drugs, at least where the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis) is concerned. This fact enables Nolvadex to offer the male bodybuilder certain advantages over Clomid. This is especially true at times when we are looking to restore a balanced HPTA, and would not want to desensitize the pituitary to GnRH. This could perhaps slow recovery to some extent, as the pituitary would require higher amounts of hypothalamic GnRH in the presence of Clomid in order to get the same level of LH stimulation.

Nolvadex also seems preferred from long-term use, for those who find anti-estrogens effective enough at raising testosterone levels to warrant using as anabolics. Here Nolvadex would seem to provide a better and more stable increase in testosterone levels, and likely will offer a similar or greater effect than Clomid for considerably less money. The potential rise in SHBG levels with Clomid, supported by other research (3), is also cause for concern, as this might work to allow for comparably less free active testosterone compared to Nolvadex as well. Ultimately both drugs are effective anti-estrogens for the prevention of gyno and elevation of endogenous testosterone, however the above research provides enough evidence for me to choose Nolvadex every time.

[juicelee]

hmmm that is a good read bro I think ive seen it before... my concerns with novla is the recent research stating in can cause liver tumors also I read its effectiveness dwindles over time... However the 149% increase novla can provide is way better than the measely 55-60% increase of Adex...I did hear that proviron not only blocks E but increases the amount of free test so thats what I was leaning towards as well but its hard to find...

[BigMC]

hmmm that is a good read bro I think ive seen it before... my concerns with novla is the recent research stating in can cause liver tumors also I read its effectiveness dwindles over time... However the 149% increase novla can provide is way better than the measely 55-60% increase of Adex...I did hear that proviron not only blocks E but increases the amount of free test so thats what I was leaning towards as well but its hard to find...

I read a few studies about long term use of Nolvadex in cancer patients. There have been 3 or 4 cases reported of liver tumors but they had been using Nolvadex for 3-5 years and at high doses. I wouldnt think 20mg ed for 6-8 weeks would cause any issues. I just remember the last time I took that dose and I felt very tired and lathargic. Of course I was taking other products so it may not have that effect if it was only taken alone.