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  1. #1
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Street fighting threads here.

    I'd appricate it if we didn't post them here. Take them over to the lounge area for discussion please. I don't believe they have a place in this particular forum. Lets keep this place a level headed place for martial artists to discuss their styles, find advice, give advice and generally bounce idea's around. We've a young membership here and I'd like a clear devide made between martial arts and street hooligans.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Oh, I should say. I'm not trying to come accross as a dictator here, but its MY beliefs that street fighting has no place in the dojo. But if you disaggree with me please say so.

  3. #3
    Mealticket's Avatar
    Mealticket is offline Senior Member
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    Hear that GQ?

  4. #4
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Oh, I should say. I'm not trying to come accross as a dictator here, but its MY beliefs that street fighting has no place in the dojo. But if you disaggree with me please say so.

    Skill is skill, bro. If you can bring it to the dojo and step up, it doesn't matter where you learned it from.

  5. #5
    Alfamale's Avatar
    Alfamale is offline Associate Member
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    I think streetfight is ok if its a fair fight. But ofcourse its big difference betwin streetfight and fighting in a dojo or in competition.

  6. #6
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfamale
    I think streetfight is ok if its a fair fight. But ofcourse its big difference betwin streetfight and fighting in a dojo or in competition.
    Whats a fair street fight?.

  7. #7
    chicamahomico's Avatar
    chicamahomico is offline Respected Member
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    LB, either you have never visited a good dojo or you are the next Tank Abbott. There is no comparision between learned and practiced techniques and what 99.5% of "street fighters" think is fighting style. Most street fighters are a one trick pony, maybe two if you count sucker punches lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ
    Skill is skill, bro. If you can bring it to the dojo and step up, it doesn't matter where you learned it from.

  8. #8
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by chicamahomico
    LB, either you have never visited a good dojo or you are the next Tank Abbott. There is no comparision between learned and practiced techniques and what 99.5% of "street fighters" think is fighting style. Most street fighters are a one trick pony, maybe two if you count sucker punches lol.

    LOL, i've seen some crazy **** before, bro. We have the tough guy comps over here and let me tell ya. I've seen well known "trained fighters" Get WORKED by some crazy ass skilled street fighters. We have some pretty big UG fight clubs in vic town.

  9. #9
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BOUNCER
    Whats a fair street fight?.
    Whatever it takes to win.

  10. #10
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
    GQ-Bouncer is offline Anabolic Member
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    I disagree Bouncer, and trust me when i say that with much respect to you

    in the lounge, all i do is get hardcore flamed

    i of course don't talk back to any flame i get, but it gets depressing whenever people call me a loser or a bully just for asking simple advice that other people have wanted,

    and Dojo's teach self-defence all the time, self-defence in my opinion is street-fight rules, and i'd get much less flamed in the fighting forum then i would in the AR Lounge

    and when it's in the lounge, you get comments like "real men don't have to fight" not realizing, that it's your profession to ATLEAST use tactical locks on people

    please, please reconsider,
    because it's sure goddamm depressing
    GQ

  11. #11
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
    GQ-Bouncer is offline Anabolic Member
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    on another point,

    martial arts has been basterdized to the point where it's USELESS to take,

    Karate for example, the basis was formed a LONG TIME ago for training soldiers who commonly lost there weapons in combat via broken, dropped, stuck in body etc. (i'm not sure if it was karate or another art similiar too)

    now karate has been demoted and belittled into point sparring and dancing (kata's), they have "kumata's(sp?)" which you must do to qualify for your blackbelt, whereas
    muay thai or boxing these "kumatai's" are as regular as sparring matches

    Now, i say this with the full understanding that martial arts has evolved to in-ring competition such as the UFCF, UCC and of course the UFC where the new form of fighting is "Mixed Martial Arts" which brings Boxing, Muay Thai Kickboxing, Gracie Jujitsu (or brazilian jujitsu - eitherway), and Judo together to make a complete fighter in the ring

    however, these sports do not include critical striking such as striking to the throat, point elbow striking to the head, eye-gouging and common self-defence stragety's such as fingerlocks, wristlocks and other such pain compliance holds.

    To all the bouncers that have ever bounced at any nightclub for a peroid of time, one professional to another - we clearly understand the BLATENT diffrence between martial arts and reality

    Which is why I would like to post reality fighting in the fighting forum,

    thank you for reading
    GQ

  12. #12
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    OK GQ I do take your points made there. And well, this thread is open too everyone's opinion who's going to read this forum. Its just my believe that the subject belongs in the lounge, but if the majority of users in this forum want street fighting threads here so be it. I'm not one to dictate. And I also take your point regarding the flaming in the Lounge, but some will say your holding out your hand to be slapped!.

    Your thread here on street fighting was moved to the lounge by someone else, I haven't a clue who did it to be honest. I'm actually just on the way out to kickboxing myself, but we can discuss your points here later.

    Take care.

  13. #13
    OSTIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    self-defence in my opinion is street-fight rules
    GQ
    Ive never heard of these so called street-fight rules, care to ellaborate?

  14. #14
    Money Boss Hustla's Avatar
    Money Boss Hustla is offline Retired Moderator
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    Only guy's with small genitalia train in MMA and then find street fights. Beating up 19 year old drunks makes them feel like a man I guess. Anyone with set wouldn't use their honed skills on an unsuspecting individual.

    You don't see Michael Schumacher driving on the freeway like he's in an F1 do ya!? He keeps his skill for the track. People with MMA skills should keep it in their "dojo".

  15. #15
    bermich's Avatar
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    I think people who search this forum would like to see street fighting in here instead of having to go to the lounge to look for it.
    There are a lot of street fighters who are looking to clean up their act and would like some advice on which art is best.
    This forum isnt a dojo. Im sure you wont disrespect your dojo if you view a thread on street fighting while searching through martial arts threads.
    I think it would be kinda weird to post street fighting in the lounge when the topic of martial arts is pretty much the same category.

    I vote this forum is the best place for it.

  16. #16
    bermich's Avatar
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    Also. It would be better kept here as to keep all the fighting of which is best: SF or martial arts in this forum.

  17. #17
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla
    Only guy's with small genitalia train in MMA and then find street fights. Beating up 19 year old drunks makes them feel like a man I guess. Anyone with set wouldn't use their honed skills on an unsuspecting individual.

    You don't see Michael Schumacher driving on the freeway like he's in an F1 do ya!? He keeps his skill for the track. People with MMA skills should keep it in their "dojo".
    unsuspecting? i'm a bouncer at a nightclub

    fights come to YOU

    and a majority of the time it's just a pain compliance hold one of the fighting patrons to walk them out

    MMA training is important if YOU are the one being attacked - Violence happens ALOT in the world, especially if you work in an enviroment to control it, - Martial Arts lesson taught to CONTROL violence, and in my opinion, if your the one being attacked the only way to end violence is with an elevated force of more violence

    of course this is my humble opinion

  18. #18
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    Good point bouncer.. I too have done security work. Compliance holds are the way to go in the street. When is the last time you saw a police officer kickboxing someone?
    If you are truly defending yourself then you should have no problem handling the avrage angry attacker, given you keep a level head... Now if your out looking for a fight, sooner or later, your gonna get your ass handed to you by some little guy. Spiritualy thats how things work. I have been that little guy for many-a- bully!

  19. #19
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    Remeber- Evasion is the best defense! PERIOD

  20. #20
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    If you are a true Martial artist then at the point that you have to physicaly defend your self you have faild. Your senses and keeness to peoples bodylanguge and intent should alert you if something is up" Then you should evade the situation, or position yourself or your subject out of harms way. If you are cought off guard, your sleeping!

  21. #21
    ironfist's Avatar
    ironfist is offline Elite Hall Of Fame ~ RIP ~
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    That's it bouncer, I'm going to the next SBG seminar in Ireland. Better get ready to get your ass handed to ya...J/K...Fight stories belong in the lounge, unless you guys are looking for ways to combat them or tachniques to fend off attackers. This should be educational in here...

  22. #22
    BOUNCER is offline Retired Vet
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironfist
    Fight stories belong in the lounge, unless you guys are looking for ways to combat them or tachniques to fend off attackers. This should be educational in here...

    Thanks, nicely put. Haven´t been checking in here too often lately. I´m on vacation in the Belearic Islands, Ibiza and Majorca and having a fvcking ball!. Finding a cyber cafe is hard and the computer in th hotel here is constantly in use by teenagers acting the pr1ck.

    I´m back home in rainy, windy Ireland Sunday!.

    See ya

  23. #23
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    hurricane - pardon me for the long response, i hadn't checked back on this threat in a while

    I don't claim to be a martial artist, however, i've been in several fights, and have trained in martial arts and kickboxing, and your position on evasion doesn't work in any kind of serious security work - and i'm not talking about loss prevention, surveillance or rent-a-cop work, i'm talking about protective services, bouncing etc.

    Good point bouncer.. I too have done security work. Compliance holds are the way to go in the street. When is the last time you saw a police officer kickboxing someone?
    If you are truly defending yourself then you should have no problem handling the avrage angry attacker, given you keep a level head...
    Make sure you remember as well, that most police ARE NOT martial artists, give a kickboxer a uniform and police training, what do you think he would do if he were outright attacked by someone? assuming he didn't have his ASP baton, pepperspray, firearm and tazor gun, i'm sure he'd go back to his roots

    pain compliance holds only work if you outnumber your opponent, which police often do, knockouts/knockdowns are a better way to go

    also, just because your a blackbelt in anything, don't think that your better than the person who's attacking you, i've met street-thugs who are brilliant untrained fighters that would hold themselves much better than anyone who has the pHD in karate

    I believe we have diffrent experiences and views on life, mabey i'm just being a young dumb punk, but were all friends here, and i don't want you to feel that i'm flaming you or anything bro,

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQ-Bouncer
    hurricane - pardon me for the long response, i hadn't checked back on this threat in a while

    I don't claim to be a martial artist, however, i've been in several fights, and have trained in martial arts and kickboxing, and your position on evasion doesn't work in any kind of serious security work - and i'm not talking about loss prevention, surveillance or rent-a-cop work, i'm talking about protective services, bouncing etc.



    Make sure you remember as well, that most police ARE NOT martial artists, give a kickboxer a uniform and police training, what do you think he would do if he were outright attacked by someone? assuming he didn't have his ASP baton, pepperspray, firearm and tazor gun, i'm sure he'd go back to his roots

    pain compliance holds only work if you outnumber your opponent, which police often do, knockouts/knockdowns are a better way to go

    also, just because your a blackbelt in anything, don't think that your better than the person who's attacking you, i've met street-thugs who are brilliant untrained fighters that would hold themselves much better than anyone who has the pHD in karate

    I believe we have diffrent experiences and views on life, mabey i'm just being a young dumb punk, but were all friends here, and i don't want you to feel that i'm flaming you or anything bro,
    i'm not sure what your arguing about, but the point is very true. No TRUE martial artist holds his training out like a badge to show people that he is badass, because if that is the case, he probably is not. i have been training in brazilian jujutsu, aikido, muay thai, xing yi, and pa qua all my life, as that is all my family does for recreation, and employment. But i've learned discipline and a sense of respect from everything. i'm sure i could pound the sh*t out of many people in my area, but likewise, i'm sure somebody could come along and stomp my face off! dont ever think your the best, or flash your martial arts training around. i would never tell somebody i had been trained before i was in a fight, or let my training make me think i'm better or a better fighter than somebody. you never know who you may come across one day that looks like some bum, that beats your ass.

    or like what happened to me. some punk grabbed my girls ass in a club in Coney Is., so what did i do? i beat the fvck out of him, deff en ER trip. but then what happened when i walked to my car? 2 of his buddys decided they were gonna take a few shots at me... and guess who was lucky enough to get hit? no not me, i wouldn't have cared, but my girlfriend took a 9mm in the back of the leg!

    anyway sorry for the essay but my point is just be careful and watch what you do, because no matter what you think your trained in, or how good you are, there IS somebody better, there IS somebody stronger, and there IS somebody willing to take the risk of putting a bullet in your head!

    p.s. the punk that shot my girl got his too!

  25. #25
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    Talking

    ( Quote: from GQbouncer....
    your position on evasion doesn't work in any kind of serious security work - and i'm not talking about loss prevention, surveillance or rent-a-cop work, i'm talking about protective services, bouncing etc. )
    No flame either... but you are wrong.

    Look I have bounced at two of the biggest and roughest clubs in New Orleans, and I don't know if youve been to New Orleans but it is the most third world" in the US, and the murder capital of the country too boot! Not to mention that clubs are open 24/7 and never stop serving Alcohol, you can buy it in the streets! so everyone is Drunk and everyone thinks they are indistructable! THAT BEING SAID... Evasion is allways better than physicaly fighting (period) If you are bouncing and you have a fight break out, what is the first thing to do? It is to move the subjects quickly outside to ensure the safty of other patrons! If it is "protective services... It is to move your subject as quickly out of harms way as possible, and thus EVADE! if you are fighting how can you protect your client? IN THE STREET IT IS JUST COMMON SENCE TO MOVE OUT OF HARMS WAY, IF YOU CANT DO IT YOU ARE MOT PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR SOUROUNDINGS!
    Furthermore, I don't know what your definition of martial artist is, but it is the nature of police work that you must control every situation, and view every person as a possible threat, not to mention evry confrentation is an ARMED ONE, because you have a gun on you, that could easly be used against you! Police take people down every day, it is there JOB! They are Martial artist... Not to mention most of them train! And Juice!
    aBOUT THE STREET THUGS THING" LOL i DON'T DISAGREE... The only thing is I wouldn't call them "UN TRAINED" MORE LIKE SELF-TRAINED! They hone there skill through trial and error and actualy fighting, thats the problem with styles that only focus on fourm and not realistic practice.... They don't develop a sense of what realy works! To me and many others, Complience holds and THROWS are what works best in the event you cant evade, most people, especialy those of small stature, cannot knock out an attacker with a single blow, and standing toe toe to exchanging blows is a 50/50 chance that you will be knocked out, not to mention it takes to long for self defence! It is simply more logical to use an attackers momentum to offballance, throw and thus control him/ IF THE THROW DOSNT KNOCK HIM OUT. ESPECIALY IN THE CASE OF MULTIPLE ATTACKERS! People ask me if I kick to the head.... I always reply: Sure, after I get them on the ground!
    Now thats streetfighting with out a gun.... Now days everyone has one, even me! I have seen too many of my friends get buried, SHOT.

  26. #26
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurricanejujitsu
    Evasion is allways better than physicaly fighting (period) If you are bouncing and you have a fight break out, what is the first thing to do? It is to move the subjects quickly outside to ensure the safty of other patrons!
    in my opinion, the only way to bring a violent patron out of the bar is unconcious

    evasion certainly is the safest route to go no doubt, and i'm not saying that anyone should look for fights all the time (unless they want to be killed), but we can both agree, that violence is the quickest most time effective way of solving a problem in the security field

    Quote Originally Posted by hurricanejujitsu
    It is simply more logical to use an attackers momentum to offballance, throw and thus control him/ IF THE THROW DOSNT KNOCK HIM OUT. ESPECIALY IN THE CASE OF MULTIPLE ATTACKERS! People ask me if I kick to the head.... I always reply: Sure, after I get them on the ground!
    now with that statement i'm assuming that you have experience in violence, and you understand kicking to the head his very effective - however, i don't understand why you think throwing works that well? ussually people who don't like getting hit in fights try to close-up some sorta makeshift clinche and wrestle, with multiple attackers, that's when kickboxing shines

    now granted, I am a heavywieght so the infamous "one punch" is ussually a 70% chance, if it's a roughly clean hit, and ussually a 90% chance if I'm the one who strikes first catching him flat footed and unprepared, also i've only been outnumbered once, and thanks to the good old sap gloves and lack of training from the opponents, i had a field day (and an unproductive ego boost)

    now i haven't ever thrown anyone, and my wrestling skills are pretty much consistant of the chokehold (sleeperhold) - if you have that aikido like skill to toss someone, that's dope, because i've never seen it

    do alot of people use tosses in New Orleans? are guns that common in the U.S.? what was your worst club experience?

  27. #27
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    GQ- I dont know how to use that nice quote thing but you said...(in my opinion, the only way to bring a violent patron out of the bar is unconcious )

    Dude, If you are a bouncer or a club employee and you knock somebody out with a strike... You are asking for a law suit. Or even Jail time. I was fired from the A club, for excessive force, and i didnt strike at all!

    You also think....( violence is the quickest most time effective way of solving a problem in the security field ) Again your asking to loose your job and face criminal charges!
    This depends on what teqniques you use.... That choke is great bacause to bystanders (witness') you are simply subduing a violent person, not fighting!

    Now for the high kick thing I dis agree I can kick high I even play Capoeira and flip kick and stuff, but realisticly the avarge person cant KO someone with a kick and it puts you in danger of getting slammed! You are a Heavyweight so you are confident and big enough to knock big men out, and even you elude to the fact that it only works if you catch them off guard, wich to me is not defending yourself..... but what would I teach an 80 pound girl to do if attacked, not stand and exchange blows.....
    Are guns commen in the US? lol Where are you bro?

  28. #28
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    One thing i've learned my friend, is that the justice system is a joke - any good lawyer can get you off of charges as long as your smart about what you do and how you talk to the cops - that means, don't brag, get witnesses on your side and plead self-defence or mutual consent.


    second, chokeouts ARE the most effective way to takedown someone in both our opinion, so we don't have to argue that - however the one-punch is a pretty effective strike (one punch = a quick, powerful hook to the jaw with your dominant arm while he is flat footed) if their standing infront of you lipping you off (how often to patrons leave without lipping off doorman?)

    and i mistyped the high-kick comment, what i meant was, kicking to the head while their on the ground if effective, we both agree on that as well

    and your right about lighter people not being able to one-punch as effectively

  29. #29
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    Knocking out some worthless asshole while he is "lipping off" at you, sure its easy, and efective, even for me and im only 175lbs... Still its hardly self defence, or a real fight.... Can you get away with it? Probably! Does that make it write? Hardly!
    Still I admit, I have done it, sometimes my temper takes control.... But everytime I have I worried that the asshole was comming back with a gun to put one in me! because where IM from thats the norm!
    Now, I guess there really is no argument hear, because on this thread, I have tryed to educate, on what is more practical for SELF DEFENCE in the street for the average person or the 80lb girl can pull off, NOT sneaking people and knocking them out. In the US....Thats a good way to get shot, not to mention for a martial artist, who knows there skill, it is just wrong!

  30. #30
    GQ-Bouncer's Avatar
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    I don't think it's wrong to pre-emptively attack someone.

    just KO him, and make sure you he's all concussed, that way he probably won't even remember half the night, and will be **** near impossible for him to come back the same night and accurately shoot at you (i'm guessing you have friends at the club who are armed as well)

  31. #31
    hurricanejujitsu is offline Junior Member
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    Pre-emptive attack is sometimes nessisary if you are more than sure the guy is gonna take a swing at you or something....not just because....
    One time, arguing with a guy he told his friend, "HOLD MY DRINK", and went to hand off his drink.... I took that as an attack and snatched him into a rear naked choke after nearly wiplashing his head off, at the same time I side kicked his friend, and put the guy in the choke between us so he couldnt retaliate without comming through his friend. At that point my 300lb friend came up and backed me up.
    Another time a guy reached like he was going for a gun or knife and I quickly put my cold steel tanto to his throat... you should have seen his face, he didnt have a gun... I called his bluff! he and his friends left the club in a hurry. So did I, incase they were going to get something!
    To me these are cases where pre-emptive attacks are warrented! Otherwise you just like knocking people out! lol Admitt it. The problem is, most guys I know who were like that, ran into someone, who they didn't expect that beat there ass.
    You see are not so different you and I, deep down I like knocking people out too, Its just, I am that little guy (5'8 175) who waits for the big cokky asshole, to think he can push his weight around, and is use to people backing down... I am the one to teach them a lesson that he will never forget. I have flattened many a bully!
    Bottom line... If your style is working for yu dont change it, just be carefull, and stay alert,, you dont want to create to many enemys that know where you work.
    cheers.

  32. #32
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    well ive seen more than one street fighter tear into blackbelts before, and ive seen blackbelts get in a street fight and forget everything they know and fight like a streetfighter.

  33. #33
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    of course i am digressing from the original point (whatever that may have been). ive only looked over some of the threads here and i can understand the desire to keep it strictly dojo and not popeye.

    on the flipside, there are a occasions when martial skills can and will be used in the street and the outcome is often interesting. if its not being to presumptious, its unfortunate that 'real' life situations where martial arts are applied are often exempt from sensible discussion. i sense all to often such threads can quickly dissolve into wanton, egotistical ramblings about how many 'erses i kicked and heids i bashed' etc.

    funnily enough, i find that there is a certain type of person who pursues martial arts and methods who is almost trying to upgrade their skills for the next pub fight. i have met these sorts of characters in a variety of clubs in the UK, France, Japan and CA. thankfully they have always been a stark and ridiculous minority. equally however, i know some who are very practiced MMA or free fighters who seem to revel in thumping people.. mostly in dojos or gyms or prizefights.

    for my 10c, i would advance the notion that the mouth is a greatly underestimated weapon; a diametrically opposed analogy would be stealth warfare where perhaps avoidance of confrontation and the perfection of that could be perceived as superceding quality aggressive action. commandos oftentimes have occasion to try to get in and out with no fuss, resorting to lethal force only when truly necessary, avoiding detection and saving ammunition making the target and getting out clean.

    so in the end, as a man with a keen interest in fighting, i suppose the question i would ask to each person who trains or has trained in a martial form, what does it mean to you? is it something you develop to protect yourself, to attack others or to simply develop yourself a little?

    for me the answer is clear. i revel in violence, of the personal kind, i enjoy getting punched and i enjoy thumping people - specifically using muay thai and preferably against reasonably matched opponents who can thump me as hard if not harder than i thump them. for me its an unbridled love of violence - but my aim is conditioniing and improving myself physically and mentally.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelxterminator
    i'm not sure what your arguing about, but the point is very true. No TRUE martial artist holds his training out like a badge to show people that he is badass, because if that is the case, he probably is not. i have been training in brazilian jujutsu, aikido, muay thai, xing yi, and pa qua all my life, as that is all my family does for recreation, and employment. But i've learned discipline and a sense of respect from everything. i'm sure i could pound the sh*t out of many people in my area, but likewise, i'm sure somebody could come along and stomp my face off! dont ever think your the best, or flash your martial arts training around. i would never tell somebody i had been trained before i was in a fight, or let my training make me think i'm better or a better fighter than somebody. you never know who you may come across one day that looks like some bum, that beats your ass.

    or like what happened to me. some punk grabbed my girls ass in a club in Coney Is., so what did i do? i beat the fvck out of him, deff en ER trip. but then what happened when i walked to my car? 2 of his buddys decided they were gonna take a few shots at me... and guess who was lucky enough to get hit? no not me, i wouldn't have cared, but my girlfriend took a 9mm in the back of the leg!

    anyway sorry for the essay but my point is just be careful and watch what you do, because no matter what you think your trained in, or how good you are, there IS somebody better, there IS somebody stronger, and there IS somebody willing to take the risk of putting a bullet in your head!

    p.s. the punk that shot my girl got his too!
    Hard-core story. I hope that dude who shoot your g'f got his ass handed to him big time.

    I think there can come a point when someone is the strongest and someone is the baddest... for example , how many people do you know out there are benching 965 lbs ? I can only think of one.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_
    Hard-core story. I hope that dude who shoot your g'f got his ass handed to him big time.

    I think there can come a point when someone is the strongest and someone is the baddest... for example , how many people do you know out there are benching 965 lbs ? I can only think of one.
    who?? actually i heard about the left tackle on dallas benching over 900 forgot his name though...

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