Judo or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?

**angelxterminator** · 10-06-2004, 12:37 PM

wow i just saw that push hands video, and its gotta be some of the dumbest sh*t i've ever seen...

that guy looks like he's jumping around and twirling, he isn't being pushed anywhere

**chicamahomico** · 10-06-2004, 04:19 PM

I would love to volounteer as static and/or non static uke at a demonstration where one of these guys hits me with all he's got. I doubt it would be any different than what George Dillman (or any other death touch nerve point striker or whatever you want to call it) type does. Usually they decline to allow uke's other than there guys to participate. Reminds me of Aikido demonstrators, they can toss around their uke's with ease but they won't allow you to participate........for your safety of course. I'm more of a convince me with action not claims of bending spoons with your tongue or smacking around your students.

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

xsing yi looks nothing like that at all, and you all have no concept of internal martial arts. If you saw my father, or master xu strike somebody you would never think twice about running your mouth to them.

I guess thats why this is an internet message board

if you saw it in person there would be no explaining

**angelxterminator** · 10-06-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

I would love to volounteer as static and/or non static uke at a demonstration where one of these guys hits me with all he's got. I doubt it would be any different than what George Dillman (or any other death touch nerve point striker or whatever you want to call it) type does. Usually they decline to allow uke's other than there guys to participate. Reminds me of Aikido demonstrators, they can toss around their uke's with ease but they won't allow you to participate........for your safety of course. I'm more of a convince me with action not claims of bending spoons with your tongue or smacking around your students.

no you would not want to be an uke to be hit by a xsing i master. They do not even HAVE ukes at all. It is NOT anything similar to Dillmans pressure point striking in any way. This art is different from everything you know i'm sure. There is no practicing projections or submissions on opponents for fun, or experience. It is a standing art and is meant to kill!
I'm not saying its a perfect art, as it has its flaws, and like anything else, you reap what you sow! I am only proficient in xsing i, and it is not my only martial base. My father owns many MAC's up and down the east coast in various arts!
I have been in the practice of aikido, BJJ, pa qua, Chen tai chi,.... as well as traditional arts such as shotokan!

I am a ranked black belt in many of these styles, and some do not even have ranks. All in all i have never claimed to be some grand master of any art. I consider myself more of a student that has graduated high school as far as martial arts go. There is much more to learn, and more experience to gain!
I would love to go to one of these "throwdowns" like you said, as nothing beats experience with other styles. If any of you would ever like to train with me, the opportunity is also always available to come to one of my families dojo's!
Some more prominent ones:
Vt martial arts acadamy rutland, vt
Triad fitness center manchester, vt
Gulf coast aikido fort myers, FL
Greenwich martial arts, Greenwich NY

**angelxterminator** · 10-06-2004, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

I would love to volounteer as static and/or non static uke at a demonstration where one of these guys hits me with all he's got. I doubt it would be any different than what George Dillman (or any other death touch nerve point striker or whatever you want to call it) type does. Usually they decline to allow uke's other than there guys to participate. Reminds me of Aikido demonstrators, they can toss around their uke's with ease but they won't allow you to participate........for your safety of course. I'm more of a convince me with action not claims of bending spoons with your tongue or smacking around your students.

i understand what your saying bro. I believe what i see also!
Your more than welcome to come to one of the dojos and see for yourself!

**Sta11ion** · 10-13-2004, 08:16 AM

What is this flea market special martial arts?

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

MMA checkout the 'push hand' video in my other thread;

http://www.nytaichi.com/pushhand1.mpg

Its hilarious.

**billy_ba** · 10-13-2004, 11:08 AM

I would say no gi submission grapling & kickboxing is the way to go for learning mma. The gi really restricts you and some of the moves rely on grabbing the gi which is not realistic. Arguing about MA is like arguing politics, everyone thinks their right. What I believe is what has been proven effective time and time again. I think that other MA have good qualities but they have big holes in their systems because of the unwillingness to adapt their styles. Traditional eastern MA's are very hardheaded when it comes to adapting to change. Submission fighting has proven itself time and time again to be the most effective martial arts. I personally have beat black belts in karate tae kwon do, a red sash in kung fu and I broke some guys arm who claimed to be an expert at bushido. None of these fights have lasted more that a minute and a half, so that alone should say something. It's like those people who say their master knows the death touch and blah blah blah, but he wont show anyone how to do it and no one has ever witnessed anyone do it. Such BS. Also aikido is pretty fake as well, it's all just a demonstration. Our school www.jacksons.tv went to an aikido school 2 years ago, they wouldn't let us participate in their demonstrations either, later we invited two of the top students to our school and they were horrible. They kept trying to grab my wrist, So I just kept shooting double leg takedowns and tapped them out a lot. These 2 students later decided to join our school. well thats just my .02 but here's a clip for all you death touch believers, pretty funny.
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.ph...op=getit&lid=80

**craneboy** · 10-20-2004, 06:24 AM

i have a gracie school nearby, they accually have alot of cops who train there. pretty expensive $120 month

**Panzerfaust** · 10-20-2004, 04:08 PM

That pushhands **** is ridiculous.

LMAO!

There is a clipo floating around where the Combat Chi students are asked to go down to the local BJJ club (i think it was a Machado school?) and try their "Art" out on them, i swear to you it does not work and they end up looking like fools. It was a news broadcast of all things...**** that was funny.

**billy_ba** · 10-20-2004, 05:02 PM

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.ph...op=getit&lid=80

Originally Posted by muriloninja

That pushhands **** is ridiculous.

LMAO!

There is a clipo floating around where the Combat Chi students are asked to go down to the local BJJ club (i think it was a Machado school?) and try their "Art" out on them, i swear to you it does not work and they end up looking like fools. It was a news broadcast of all things...**** that was funny.

**chicamahomico** · 10-21-2004, 01:34 AM

Since I live a 1/2 days drive from Seattle I would guess the chance of me travelling to the eastern seaboard anytime in the near future is next to nill. If I was to travel to an MA school I would head to Gresham, Ore or hit up a Machado school in NV, TX or CA. Closer to me and more of what I believe is effective and useful.

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

i understand what your saying bro. I believe what i see also!
Your more than welcome to come to one of the dojos and see for yourself!

**phwSSJ** · 12-12-2004, 08:13 PM

Here is a lesson for you guys

Judo was created from Jiu Jitsu, Judo was formed as an art of self defense after WWII in Japan. What the gracies learned in brazil was traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu which is the more brutal form of JUDO. Judo is the "gentler way of Jiu Jitsu." The Gracies modified Japanese Jiu Jitsu into what most people train in today as BJJ. You did good by going for Jui Jitsu and Judo. They are the 2 most practical arts. Grat work out too. You have to be carefull in finging a school for either cuz there are a lot of bulls----ers out there, I mean a lot of underexperienced teachers or good athletes that dont know how to teach.
I am not to sure about Judo but for Jiu Jitsu, if you find a Gracie black belt or brown belt you will not only learn Jiu JItsu but you will also learn the basics of Judo. Look on sherdog.com for good references in your city!!!

Just keepin it real
We need our sport to grow
Good Luck.

**ironfist** · 12-13-2004, 01:02 AM

Oh yeah, my stare down and heart of a lion are more than any of you can bare...With 1 fatal b$tch slap I shall strike you all dead...

**maki riddington** · 12-22-2004, 10:49 PM

I'd opt for Judo. BJJ is such a invogue MA right now. With Judo, you get the best of both. You'll learn to fight standing and on the ground. BJJ to my knowledge is all ground work.

**BOUNCER** · 12-23-2004, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by maki riddington

I'd opt for Judo. BJJ is such a invogue MA right now. With Judo, you get the best of both. You'll learn to fight standing and on the ground. BJJ to my knowledge is all ground work.

I'm inclined to agree with you there.

**phwSSJ** · 12-23-2004, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by maki riddington

I'd opt for Judo. BJJ is such a invogue MA right now. With Judo, you get the best of both. You'll learn to fight standing and on the ground. BJJ to my knowledge is all ground work.

Depends on who you learn it from.

BJJ has a lot of badass takedowns and slams, and the basics of JUDO.

Read my thread!

I would pic BJJ over Judo any day.

I study Judo a little bit, and I go compete in Judo tournaments.
I have beaten Judo Blackbelts and I am a Joyce Gracie Jiu Jitsu purple belt.!

**BOUNCER** · 12-23-2004, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by phwSSJ

Depends on who you learn it from.

That can be said of any martial art system, including the Judo blackbelts you beat!.

**Odin** · 12-23-2004, 04:01 PM

It's really funny hearing about all these complex fighting styles and how good they are when you have a Matt Hughes. He's just an old farm boy that run's up to you- grabs your leg's- picks you up-and slam's you down, and finally beat the hell out of you. I get a kick out of watching these Wise men and the sacrid styles get ****canned by a scrappy young guy with a little wresiling and boxing skill's and good genetic's.

**phwSSJ** · 12-25-2004, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

matt hughes has a lot more than "a little wrestling skill". he has been training his ass off for many years. there is a huge amount of skill involved in a good double leg takedown. he is better at his art than they are at theirs.

****-straight

You tell em MMA!

**phwSSJ** · 12-25-2004, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

That can be said of any martial art system, including the Judo blackbelts you beat!.

!!!!!What are you trying to say buddy?

Judo is also harder to adapt to for the street since most of the practice involves holding on to thick kimonos.
BJJ can be trained no-gi.

**Odin** · 12-25-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

matt hughes has a lot more than "a little wrestling skill". he has been training his ass off for many years. there is a huge amount of skill involved in a good double leg takedown. he is better at his art than they are at theirs.

I know I just felt like talking a little garb

It's just funny how easy he can land that double leg. I see Jeremy Horn has been working with him on submitions, and it really paid off with his fight agains the more phyically talented, Ryan St. Peirre. I also think Tim Silvia was working with Matt on some stiking too. Yeah his game is kinda simple but he knows it well. No use knowing some fancy stuff if your to scared to use it, Lot's of fighters know how to kick but how many good kicks do you see land in MMA, not many.

**phwSSJ** · 12-26-2004, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Odin

No use knowing some fancy stuff if your to scared to use it, Lot's of fighters know how to kick but how many good kicks do you see land in MMA, not many.

I know what you mean. When you see them fight and when you see them spar its different. I have trained with Yves Edwards. He is a very well rounded fighter. He is really good standing up, when I watch him fight I get pissed cuz he never uses his stand up skills. I think he lost to Franka though, that one UFC. Me, I do well when I fight cuz I am not afraid to let loose and blast away some kicks, If I go to the ground.... Fk-it! I know how to fight on the ground.
You win some you lose some but at least I know that I gave it my all!

Peace!

**Deez101** · 12-26-2004, 07:04 PM

Take a look at some Frank Mir fights in the UFC. Pure no gi BJJ bad ass! He is really something to watch fight.

**inevitable** · 12-26-2004, 08:52 PM

yea i just signed up for 2 weeks of private lesson of BJJ so i can kno some stuff when i start goin there for open sessions.

**phwSSJ** · 12-27-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by inevitable

yea i just signed up for 2 weeks of private lesson of BJJ so i can kno some stuff when i start goin there for open sessions.

You dont necessarily haveto do that bro!

Your money would be spent better if you got some experience first before you signed up for some privates.

What gym you training at. What city?

**inevitable** · 12-28-2004, 05:02 PM

i didn't go yet.. i was thinkin steelcity martial arts... in pittsburgh well the dojo is in bethel park... after readin this thread thru... i am thinkin about xsing yi, or miu ta (if i spelled that right) ne one give advice...

**rborwn77** · 12-28-2004, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

no you would not want to be an uke to be hit by a xsing i master. They do not even HAVE ukes at all. It is NOT anything similar to Dillmans pressure point striking in any way. This art is different from everything you know i'm sure. There is no practicing projections or submissions on opponents for fun, or experience. It is a standing art and is meant to kill!
I'm not saying its a perfect art, as it has its flaws, and like anything else, you reap what you sow! I am only proficient in xsing i, and it is not my only martial base. My father owns many MAC's up and down the east coast in various arts!
I have been in the practice of aikido, BJJ, pa qua, Chen tai chi,.... as well as traditional arts such as shotokan!

I am a ranked black belt in many of these styles, and some do not even have ranks. All in all i have never claimed to be some grand master of any art. I consider myself more of a student that has graduated high school as far as martial arts go. There is much more to learn, and more experience to gain!
I would love to go to one of these "throwdowns" like you said, as nothing beats experience with other styles. If any of you would ever like to train with me, the opportunity is also always available to come to one of my families dojo's!
Some more prominent ones:
Vt martial arts acadamy rutland, vt
Triad fitness center manchester, vt
Gulf coast aikido fort myers, FL
Greenwich martial arts, Greenwich NY

not trying to start anything ,but how do you learn it if it is so deadly ?(not trying to be funny)How can you practice it ?
thanks

**Odin** · 12-28-2004, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by rborwn77

not trying to start anything ,but how do you learn it if it is so deadly ?(not trying to be funny)How can you practice it ?
thanks

Not trying to be funny. lmao Sure

**BOUNCER** · 12-29-2004, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by phwSSJ

!!!!!What are you trying to say buddy?

Judo is also harder to adapt to for the street since most of the practice involves holding on to thick kimonos.
BJJ can be trained no-gi.

What am I trying to say?... And YOUR talking about the street!. I've said this numberous times, the dojo can't even hope to come close to the street. For one, your almost always paired with a partner of even rank, or ability. You both have the same goal, submission or knockout, but within a set of clearly defined rules. BBJ, Judo, MT, VT, TKD etc can never prepair you properly for attacked from weapons, teeth, gouging, head butts etc. Plus they'll never prepare you for attacks from more than one person. Last and not least, the dojo, ring or cage will NEVER prepare you for the sheer voilence of the attack on the street, and thats coming from someone with 17+ years of working in bar's and clubs plus longer in martial arts.

If your attacked on the street your immediately into a self defence situation, what most martial arts instructors can't teach (because they've no practical experience of it) is how to turn a 'self defence' situation into an effect attack. Why?, because on the street your assailant has a strong goal, he wants your wallet, your watch, your girl friend or your ass!. You just want to protect yourself, your fighting on his ground with his rules and against whatever arsenal he choose's to take to the fight!.

Still wanna discuss the street?.

**phwSSJ** · 12-29-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

What am I trying to say?... And YOUR talking about the street!. I've said this numberous times, the dojo can't even hope to come close to the street. For one, your almost always paired with a partner of even rank, or ability. You both have the same goal, submission or knockout, but within a set of clearly defined rules. BBJ, Judo, MT, VT, TKD etc can never prepair you properly for attacked from weapons, teeth, gouging, head butts etc. Plus they'll never prepare you for attacks from more than one person. Last and not least, the dojo, ring or cage will NEVER prepare you for the sheer voilence of the attack on the street, and thats coming from someone with 17+ years of working in bar's and clubs plus longer in martial arts.

If your attacked on the street your immediately into a self defence situation, what most martial arts instructors can't teach (because they've no practical experience of it) is how to turn a 'self defence' situation into an effect attack. Why?, because on the street your assailant has a strong goal, he wants your wallet, your watch, your girl friend or your ass!. You just want to protect yourself, your fighting on his ground with his rules and against whatever arsenal he choose's to take to the fight!.

Still wanna discuss the street?.

Ya I do!

Thats cool, I just thought you were questioning my skill with the comment you made earlier. Thats why I was a little offensive. As far as the street goes. I had it rough when I grew up, and I have been in fights, I have been a bouncer downtown and at titty bars for a couple years. I am not trying to say I have more experience than you or vice versa, that is just childish.
But I believe that as far as the street goes, you are much better off knowing Judo, Jiu Jitsu, and Muay Thai, than thinking you are some billy badass street brawler.
Ya sure a street fight is dirty and people bite and scratch and use weapons

...but look at it like this, If I could beat your ass with rules, then I will PULVERISE your ass when there is nothing restricting me. Who said a trained fighter does not know how to fight dirty or smart? In fact it would only make sense that a trained fighter would fair better than the average thug!

Plus, who said street fighting is more effective and efficient then fighting with technique? I dont think so buddy. It is DEFINITLY NOT!

And as far as experience with fighting or reality situations and what not,
Two sping breaks ago when I was in south padre, we were on the beach and these marines were talking schit and trying to act hard. They were trying to diss us fighters and say that they were badder than us cuz they were in war and all that dangerous schit. Well long story short., I embarrased all of them, and my buddies and I beat them in the tug a war..and took their girls from them.
When I was 18 I went to Thai land for the summer to train and backpack.
There were some marines or navy(cant remember) stationed there. I was at a bar and they started a fight with this little thai dude (turned out to be a thai fighter) He whupped the schit out of them. It was six on one, I dont think they even hit him except for the fist few cheap shots, after that it was all him. He started a new assholoe tearing business on the military!

Dont tell me that training in a gym can NEVER prepare you for the street. Your statement is FALSE!!!

I belive a true fighter at heart is good in the ring and out of the ring.
On the street you just have to be alert and aware of your environment and be able to respond quickly.

And from my experience most of the people that will attack you on the street are pussies compared to pro fighters ( I dont mean your average martial artist, I mean a pro), The only advantage they have is the element of surprise and maybe a weapon, thats it.
As far as for fighting more than one person, Muay Thai is the answer baby!

If you got anything to answer, then..
YOUR TURN...

**phwSSJ** · 12-29-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by inevitable

i didn't go yet.. i was thinkin steelcity martial arts... in pittsburgh well the dojo is in bethel park... after readin this thread thru... i am thinkin about xsing yi, or miu ta (if i spelled that right) ne one give advice...

You didnt spell it right, its Muay Thai, and I dont know what the hell the other thing you wrote is. Its cool though.
Its not like I was born with knowledge about fighting!

Go to www.sherdog.com and you can use that to help you find a school.
Muay Thai is definitly a good choice!
get some experience first, you will be able to get more from your privates that way. I would say like at least a year!
And dont be intimidated or shy, I cant stand it when people say "well I think I am going to try to get in shape first so I dont look stupid" or whatever. No, that is the wrong way to think. Throw yourself into the mix, be agressive. That is the best way to learn and get in shape!!!
Not to dog on any of the other martial arts but stick with Judo, Jiu Jitsu, or Muay Thai !!! I dont care what anyone else says, they are the best and its proven!

**Wimmpy** · 12-30-2004, 01:48 PM

I love Jiu Jitsu! I started training about two years ago and started working some Muay Thai into the mix. When I started I had quit training prior to that point for about 18 months. I was extremely out of shape. I jumped in threw up everywhere for about a month and haven't looked back since. I did compete in lasts years nationals in Santa Cruz. I placed second in the white belt light heavyweights. I the finals match I got hurt pretty good and haven't been as serious about it. I just moved away from Cali and am looking for a place to train in PA. I can't wait to get back into it!

Wimmpy

**paleocaveman** · 07-15-2013, 10:26 PM

Either will give you a good workout but BJJ>Judo

**T-boner** · 07-09-2016, 08:56 PM

BJJ without a doubt if you have to pick just one. Judo is better for standing take downs but very inferior to BJJ on the ground.

**RockyvsRambo** · 09-12-2016, 11:03 AM

Jazzercise

**Marsoc** · 09-12-2016, 02:06 PM

I love momentum throws and leverage moves.

**TroyJackson3000** · 09-13-2016, 06:38 AM

this

Originally Posted by RockyvsRambo

Jazzercise

**TroyJackson3000** · 09-13-2016, 06:42 AM

judo is better

**InternalFire** · 09-13-2016, 06:45 AM

I like Gun-Jitsu

**ScotchGuard02** · 09-13-2016, 12:02 PM

I have had 10 years of Aikido training and received a black belt in that system. We would spend hours practicing the manipulation of "KI" or internal power. IDK if I was too young or what but I just didn't feel it. It felt like the emperor's new clothes to me. I then started Muay Thai training with a guy from Thailand. This was the first time in my martial arts experience where I actually learned how to knock someone out. Also, In about 6 months I absolutely confident in my fighting ability. Something I couldn't achieve after 10 years of Aikido training. I don't know xsing yi or it's internal powers. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not. I do know that a good round should to the temple will bring down a big man.

**ScotchGuard02** · 09-13-2016, 12:08 PM

Oh, forgot to address the question in the original post. I was a stand up instructor at a BJJ school for three years. Those guys are the real deal when it comes to taking people out. I also cross trained Aikido with Judo for five years. Which is better? It depends on what one's objectives are. Let's say a judo and BJJ black belts were to fight under judo rules, the judo guy would win. If under BJJ rules, the BJJ guy would win. It sorta depends on the rules. If it was an open free-for-all fight, I would put my money on the BJJ guy. Then again, how many of us train to get in a fight? For all intents and purposes, I think they're both good exercise.