Judo or Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?

**sigrabbit** · 09-28-2004, 03:50 PM

I am going to start training in one or the other, but I am not sure which would be better. I don't really have any aspirations of competing, but I would like to learn a martial art that will give me a good workout. In highschool I was a good wrestler, so I thought Jiu-jitsu would be better, but Judo seems so similar that I don't think it will matter. Is the focus of each art just standing/throws for Judo vs. groundwork for GJJ? By the way, Judo training is $40/month and GJJ is $100/month. It seems that if I am going to learn much of the same grappling techniques in both, I might as well go with the less expensive of the two.

**BOUNCER** · 09-28-2004, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by sigrabbit

By the way, Judo training is $40/month and GJJ is $100/month. It seems that if I am going to learn much of the same grappling techniques in both, I might as well go with the less expensive of the two.

Seem's an easy choice for me!. But that again would depend on your goals, the and level of coaching in your area. Judo is a very well established sport now so finding a good club/dojo in your area is going to be easier than finding a BJJ one. To me as an outsider (I'm in Ireland) BJJ and politics go hand-in-hand. Personally given the prices I'd go with the Judo, but then I play Judo is I may be alittle biased!.

**BOUNCER** · 09-28-2004, 04:06 PM

Btw, about the throws in Judo. They don't look spectacular on TV, but sh*t they fvcking hurt!. If you have the money I'd consider cross training with Judo/Muay Thai-kickboxing or BJJ and the other two.

**sigrabbit** · 09-28-2004, 08:16 PM

I went for a free lesson today and had a blast. Some of the old wrestling instincts kicked in, and I was tossing around a 265 pound instructor pretty easily. I was amazed at how unathletic some of the people were that had been training for 6 months. They could barely do the throws that they have been practicing for months. I decided to sign up for a month to see how I like it, but I would like more input from everyone.

**BOUNCER** · 09-29-2004, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by sigrabbit

I went for a free lesson today and had a blast. Some of the old wrestling instincts kicked in, and I was tossing around a 265 pound instructor pretty easily. I was amazed at how unathletic some of the people were that had been training for 6 months. They could barely do the throws that they have been practicing for months. I decided to sign up for a month to see how I like it, but I would like more input from everyone.

Free lession in what, Judo or BJJ?.

**sigrabbit** · 09-29-2004, 07:17 AM

Judo. One of the instructors is a former collegiate wrestler, so he let me bypass some of the basic instruction and participate in throws. My worry is that I will get bored in the early months because it seems like instructors will hold you back until you are more experienced with falling and bs like that. The former wrestler said that he would work with me personally when he comes to town. The place I chose to train also has BJJ once a week, and kickboxing once each week, so I hope to get some experience in both. Allegedly, the BJJ instructor is the best in Minnesota.

**BOUNCER** · 09-29-2004, 09:54 AM

Sig, it doesn't sound much of a Judo club if you came away with the impression that the novice gradings were full of BS. So you know all your lower kyu techniques in the required Japanese from your wrestling days?. Please don't take this as a flame, but the attitude you've expressed here get you your ass handed to you on a plate in the two clubs I train in. In fact, there's be a que waiting spar you. Maybe you should go with the 'best BJJ instructor in Minnesota''.

**sigrabbit** · 09-29-2004, 10:16 AM

I did not say the novice gradings are bs, but I am worried about getting bored if I progress much faster than the other beginners, and end up being held back. I fully expect to get my ass kicked for quite some time by the more experienced students, but I would rather get my butt kicked than get bored practicing falling for months. I still don't see where I said anything bad about the novice grading.

**BOUNCER** · 09-29-2004, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by sigrabbit

I did not say the novice gradings are bs, but I am worried about getting bored if I progress much faster than the other beginners, and end up being held back. I fully expect to get my ass kicked for quite some time by the more experienced students, but I would rather get my butt kicked than get bored practicing falling for months.

Sorry my mistake, I just re-read what you wrote.

As regards the novice stuff, I don't know, your just giving me the impression that either the Judo club you visited wasn't a very good one, or your not suited to Judo. In which case try BJJ, both are fine arts.

If you'd like to read more about Judo visit http://www.judoinfo.com It has a good discussion board too if you don't have your questions answered from its home page.

**sigrabbit** · 09-29-2004, 11:18 AM

Honestly, I don't know if it is a "good" club or not, but for the price I can't go wrong to mess around with it for a while. A couple of friends are going to join with me, and one is a national TKD champ so he should have some good insight into whether the club is good or not. Thanks all. The club has a website if anyone wants to check it out. northstarjudo.com

**chicamahomico** · 09-29-2004, 07:42 PM

If you are a good wrestler, you will steamroll a good percentage of the people ni your classes even at several levels higher than you but don't worry. After awhile the better grapplers will treat you like a match rather than a complete novice and you will get some good competition. I remember my first on the mat run in with a wrestler, lol, I was a wake up call to say the least, a totally different style. Watch the extending of your arms, that will be your downfall in the beginning, more skilled guys will bar you asap. Happens to every wrestler I've seen in the beginning, but you adapt quickly.

**sigrabbit** · 09-29-2004, 10:40 PM

I went to another class today, and I have a better appreciation for learning how to fall and the need for learning the basics first. Because of my wrestling I think I will pick up the throws quickly, but some of my instincts have to be forgotten to adapt to Judo. For example, I was following people I threw to the ground like you would do in wrestling, but I quickly was told that you don't score as well if you don't "slam" someone with balance. At the end of practice we did some groundwork, and I manhandled all three people I faced, but I have a lot to learn about groundwork using Judo principles. I am going to a Jiu-jitsu seminar that is going to be taught by Carlson or Carlos Gracie this weekend at my club. Hopefully, I pick up some of the different techniques in ground work. Maybe I should turn this into a journal of a novice. By the way, my 31 year old ass is going to be sore tomorrow!

**BOUNCER** · 09-30-2004, 01:54 AM

We don't wrestle here, wrestling is no Gi, right?.. If so I can't imagine a no Gi fighter putting up too much trouble to a Judo player, and the other way round of course.

**chicamahomico** · 09-30-2004, 02:04 AM

IMO it's all about how a person trains the majority of the time. If you always train in a gi you will incorporate it into your techniques and the same for no gi is true. Most guys I know who are Judo players are alot worse when grappling without the jacket. They spend all their time training in one and not much without.

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

We don't wrestle here, wrestling is no Gi, right?.. If so I can't imagine a no Gi fighter putting up too much trouble to a Judo player, and the other way round of course.

**BOUNCER** · 09-30-2004, 02:08 AM

So you know what I mean. Put a wrestler in a Gi and a Judo player should take him apart?.

**ironfist** · 09-30-2004, 01:23 PM

I've done both and I like BJJ better...Find a school with a couple good purple and brown belts and you'll be well on ur way....

**BOUNCER** · 09-30-2004, 09:31 PM

Thought this discussion might be interesting;

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showt...50&#entry33824

**BOUNCER** · 09-30-2004, 09:34 PM

D*mn for some reason it's going to the 3rd page.

**sigrabbit** · 10-01-2004, 08:41 AM

Thanks Bouncer. I will check out that site. I am getting a better understanding for how much I have to learn about Judo. I think that my wrestling background will help be beat lower ranked Judo players, but it might get me in trouble with better players because Judo requires different instinctive moves. For example, I guarantee that I will find myself caught in many an arm bar with better players, and I don't have the instinct yet to apply the same techniques.

**General Patton** · 10-01-2004, 08:54 AM

I would pick Gracie. Seeing those boys fight is like watching a masterpiece in the making. 1 mistake, your done!

**sigrabbit** · 10-04-2004, 08:51 PM

I am learning a new found respect for Judo. It is much more about technique that I posssibly could have imagined. In wrestling, I could muscle people around and that simply will not work with a skilled Judo player. However, I am learning a few throws, and I can manhandle the other beginners, so I think I might pick this up pretty quickly, but not nearly as quickly as I first thought.

**angelxterminator** · 10-04-2004, 09:16 PM

all these external martial arts are rendered totally useless when you fight an internal martial artist. Judo might work well for the average joe, but somebody who has been faithfully training in 6 harmony 10 animal xsing yi for 6 years would completely destroy anybody who has been doing judo for a lifetime!

**angelxterminator** · 10-04-2004, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by sigrabbit

I went for a free lesson today and had a blast. Some of the old wrestling instincts kicked in, and I was tossing around a 265 pound instructor pretty easily. I was amazed at how unathletic some of the people were that had been training for 6 months. They could barely do the throws that they have been practicing for months. I decided to sign up for a month to see how I like it, but I would like more input from everyone.

if thats what the people are like in your dojo it is because they are not real martial artists. I know if you came into one of my dojos and tried to toss your sensei around you would get the ass whooping of your lifetime

**BOUNCER** · 10-05-2004, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

all these external martial arts are rendered totally useless when you fight an internal martial artist. Judo might work well for the average joe, but somebody who has been faithfully training in 6 harmony 10 animal xsing yi for 6 years would completely destroy anybody who has been doing judo for a lifetime!

What

**angelxterminator** · 10-05-2004, 05:59 AM

do you know what an internal martial art is?

examples: REAL Chen Style tai chi (not the fake sh*t 99% of america does), pa qua, xsing yi,etc.

**BOUNCER** · 10-05-2004, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by angelxterminator

do you know what an internal martial art is?

examples: REAL Chen Style tai chi (not the fake sh*t 99% of america does), pa qua, xsing yi,etc.

Are they like, Mmmmmmm, sorry but our secret techniques are too deadly to perform in MMA so thats why you don't see us whoop every's ass and make load'sa money?.

**Panzerfaust** · 10-05-2004, 09:53 AM

Judo will rely 90% on throws with a little groundwork.

BJJ will rely 90% on ground work and 10% on throws takedowns etc...

Like said above, Judo schools are everywhere and alot of them suck (McDojos) and have terrible teachers that are out of shape etc.. You will not find a legit BJJ school that has an out of shape teacher.

They are similar arts and depending on the school they are both good choices. Ask yourself if you would rather be thrown around all day long (Judo) or do some throws and do groundwork and subs most of the time (BJJ)? I prefer BJJ. Gracie Barra #1

Bouncer:

Sounds like your club does no newaza (ground work) what in the hell is up with that?

**angelxterminator** · 10-05-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Are they like, Mmmmmmm, sorry but our secret techniques are too deadly to perform in MMA so thats why you don't see us whoop every's ass and make load'sa money?.

i'm not too sure exactly what it is you just said

**palme** · 10-05-2004, 11:20 AM

I practice judo so i dont need to say what i think

A wrestler might be able to go toe2toe with a judoka/bjj but as soon as they go down to the floor he will get subbed and owned. Just like randleman gets owned with a kimura(!) against fedor

**BOUNCER** · 10-05-2004, 01:08 PM

[QUOTE=muriloninja]Judo will rely 90% on throws with a little groundwork.

BJJ will rely 90% on ground work and 10% on throws takedowns etc...

Like said above, Judo schools are everywhere and alot of them suck (McDojos) and have terrible teachers that are out of shape etc.. You will not find a legit BJJ school that has an out of shape teacher.

They are similar arts and depending on the school they are both good choices. Ask yourself if you would rather be thrown around all day long (Judo) or do some throws and do groundwork and subs most of the time (BJJ)? I prefer BJJ. Gracie Barra #1

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Bouncer:

Sounds like your club does no newaza (ground work) what in the hell is up with that?

Where do I start?...

Last first, don't know what gave you that impression, infact we probably do about a 50/50 split with throws and ground work?

Originally Posted by muriloninja

Like said above, Judo schools are everywhere and alot of them suck (McDojos) and have terrible teachers that are out of shape etc.. You will not find a legit BJJ school that has an out of shape teacher.

You can say that for almost any club.

Originally Posted by muriloninja

They are similar arts and depending on the school they are both good choices. Ask yourself if you would rather be thrown around all day long (Judo) or do some throws and do groundwork and subs most of the time (BJJ)? I prefer BJJ. Gracie Barra #1.

You make it sound as though getting thrown around all day is childs play.
In fact I've probably heard more about bad BJJ instructors charging huge fee's compared to almost any other martial art club. I feel your experience of other style's is pretty limited and you've bought into the BJJ fashion at the moment. BJJ is fantastic, I won't knock it for a moment. But the question also dealth with price comparision and BJJ simply is not worth the extra if funds are tight.

**Panzerfaust** · 10-05-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

You make it sound as though getting thrown around all day is childs play.

No i meant that as to say who wants to pop extra strength tylenol all day long to combat the massive headaches from that ****? I know my throws and have been thrown and am not scared to get thrown but god**** man that **** hurts and i cannot stand to do it that much.lol

Rattles my brain something fierce, not to scared of a BJJ guy's (average level) throws as they are not as powerful as a Judoka.

**BOUNCER** · 10-05-2004, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

No i meant that as to say who wants to pop extra strength tylenol all day long to combat the massive headaches from that ****? I know my throws and have been thrown and am not scared to get thrown but god**** man that **** hurts and i cannot stand to do it that much.lol

Rattles my brain something fierce, not to scared of a BJJ guy's (average level) throws as they are not as powerful as a Judoka.

Sorry I'd picked you up wrong. Yea, throws fvcking hurt. I still get scared of them!. I'm 6'2'' and 260lbs so I don't land too gently!.

**angelxterminator** · 10-05-2004, 05:45 PM

the STYLES are differen't. And it is not something you could successfully demonstrate on anybody without seriously injuring them. It was designed by a chinese general 800 years ago for his army to kill people when they dropped their weapons.

I would go to any place to roll around with fellow martial artists, it is good to experience differen't styles, but i'm currently on my school to work program in new york, and can not go!

**angelxterminator** · 10-05-2004, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

his other point is that MANY martial arts have claimed to be invincible. many say that their claims cannot be proven, because fighting other martial artists would just be too destructive for the other fighters, leaving them crippled or dead. this is usually a sure sign of Bullshido. luckily for you, you have an opportunity to go to the Throwdown, and prove us all wrong by demonstrating how your pushing hands technique will keep that division 1 wrestler from taking you down. i'd love to see it. and extra lucky for you, BDTR also lives close to the Boston Throwdown. maybe you could demonstrate your invincible pushing hands on him.

and do not put words in my mouth. I never claimed any martial artist was invincible, and every art has its flaws, and is prone to different attacks, etc.

Push hands is a simple technique used to build "kara" or center. It is not a demonstration of any martial ability, nor does it in any way resemble what it would look like if an internal martial artist were to defend himself....

and yes a xsing i master would not be able to demonstrate his abilities because it would be ENTIRELY destructive to the opposing fighter, and in all probability they would not survive. It was not designed to be a user friendly art to be demonstrated the way aikido's projections or GJJ's submissions are!

**lilpimp** · 10-05-2004, 07:15 PM

I have been in the martial arts for 15 years and both have their strength and their weaknesess. If you are going to take either learn how to fight standing up also. Mui tai would probably be the best to incorporate with either. Why go to the ground if you can take care of the problem on your feet. going to the ground should be as a last resort. A well rounded fighter knows both. good luck.

**angelxterminator** · 10-05-2004, 07:18 PM

i'll look into it. I really do enjoy training with people of all different arts, just gives you good experience with different styles. My sched is just soo **** tight right now!

**BOUNCER** · 10-06-2004, 12:38 AM

I think MMA is in for an ass whooping once the secrets of the 'Eagle claw kata are unleashed on your sorry ass, prepare to die bitch, lol..

**BOUNCER** · 10-06-2004, 12:39 AM

MMA checkout the 'push hand' video in my other thread;

http://www.nytaichi.com/pushhand1.mpg

Its hilarious.

**chicamahomico** · 10-06-2004, 01:16 AM

LOL and yeah be sure to watch out for the death touch. And if any of you cyber pukes make fun of my I will unleash my secret deadly technique.....I call it hopping monkey.

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

I think MMA is in for an ass whooping once the secrets of the 'Eagle claw kata are unleashed on your sorry ass, prepare to die bitch, lol..

**angelxterminator** · 10-06-2004, 12:34 PM

wow your all very funny...really

have you ever even seen xsing yi performed before?
push hands is in tai chi, and that tai chi is yong style, which is a sh*tty misinterpretation of the real fighting art. That is NOT a martial art, but more like 2 meditating fools holding hands with each other!

xsing yi looks nothing like that at all, and you all have no concept of internal martial arts. If you saw my father, or master xu strike somebody you would never think twice about running your mouth to them.

I guess thats why this is an internet message board

if you saw it in person there would be no explaining