Very impressed by JUDO

**yannick32** · 05-27-2005, 12:59 PM

Wow found this link on the net with awsome Judo technics

http://judoclub.ca/judoclps.htm

Pertty impressed with the arm bar and controlling opponent.

**GQ-Bouncer** · 05-27-2005, 01:49 PM

none of the links are working for me

**Dave321** · 05-27-2005, 01:51 PM

me too... but judo does have its advantages. I took it for 3 years and can roll myself outa any situation... well, almost any situation. okay, I sucked at it, but it was fun.

**yannick32** · 05-27-2005, 04:39 PM

Guys the links from technic of the week work fine, i dowloaded all of them today without any problems.

The rest of the links dont work for me either.

**BOUNCER** · 05-27-2005, 08:17 PM

You'll find anything you need to know about Judo on www.judoinfo.com and http://www.ijf.org/index.php

Judoinfo has a great forum too!.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 05-28-2005, 04:14 PM

judo is ok, but try bjj if you want to be impressed

haha..just messing with bouncer

**BOUNCER** · 05-28-2005, 08:17 PM

Honestly BJJ bore's the tits off me.

**MMA** · 05-28-2005, 08:56 PM

judo has better throws/takedowns but BJJ groundwork is amazing.

**BOUNCER** · 05-29-2005, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

BJJ groundwork is amazing.

No doubt. But I think you guys are getting ass raped with the prices being charged for BJJ classes in the USA compared to Judo.

Luckily I'm coached by a nine times Irish judo champion, two times olympic competitor and European BJJ finalist so I get the best of both worlds for 4 Euro per class ($5.oo).

(http://www.straightblastgym.com/camps.htm)

He recently coached in the USA (see link above).

**yannick32** · 05-29-2005, 06:36 PM

You guys are getting my confused here.

Doesnt Jiu Jistu have any throws, how about the take downs we see in MMA???

And what is the difference between BJJ and traditionnal Jiu Jitsu?????

I tought that in Jiu Jitsu class you learned the single and double leg takedown?

**Div1Wrestler** · 05-29-2005, 07:12 PM

traditional Jiu Jitsu is what Samurai's did, I belive that and Judo

BJJ is yet another blend of grappling taking the best of jiu jitsu "the ground game" and making its own

SORRY this is LONG.... but a good history

Jiu Jitsu is one of the oldest Japanese martial arts. It is spelled several ways which may be adding to the confusion. It is spelled, "jiu jitsu, jujitsu, juijitsu and jiujitsu". Jujitsu is the father of Judo, Aikido and some argue Korean Hapkido. Korean Hapkido does not focus on wrestling or ground fighting, although it incorporate many joint lock and finger locking techniques used in Aikido.

The Development of Jiu-Jitsu

Jiu-Jitsu itself was developed in Japan during the Feudal period. It may be spelled "jujitsu" or "jiujitsu" or "ju Jitsu" or "jiu-jitsu". It was originally an art designed for warfare, but after the abolition of the Feudal system in Japan, certain modifications needed to be made to the art in order to make it suitable for practice. During Feudal times, Jiu-Jitsu was also known as Yawara, Hakuda, Kogusoko, and an assortment of other names. The earliest recorded use of the word "jiu-jitsu" happens in 1532 and is coined by the Takenouchi Ryu (school). The history of the art during this time is uncertain because teachers kept everything secret to give their art a feeling of importance and then would change the stories of their art to suit their own needs.

After the Feudal period in Japan ended (Jiu-jitsu was no longer needed on the battlefield), a way to practice the art realistically was needed, which is why Jigoro Kano (1860--1938), a practitioner of Jiu-Jitsu, developed his own system of Jiu-Jitsu in the late 1800's, called Judo. Judo was helpful because it allowed practitioners the ability to try the art safely and realistically at the same time. The most important contribution Judo made to the practice of "Jiu-jitsu" was the concept of Rondori. Rondori was a form of sparing and contained a set of sportive rules that made practice safe, yet realistic. Because of the sportive outlet (rules that made practice safe), students of Jiu-jitsu from Kano's school were able to practice more frequently due to the fact that they were not always recovering from injuries. This multiplies the amount of training time for student's of Kano's school and drastically increased their abilities. Judo (Kano's version of Jiu-jitsu) was watered down from the complete form (of Jiu-jitsu), but still contained enough techniques to preserve its realistic effectiveness. The one problem that occurred was, in Kano's opinion, ground work was not as important as achieving the throw or take down, therefore ground fighting was not emphasized in Judo and became weak in that system. Judo also began placing too many rules and regulations on the art to make it more acceptable as an Olympic sport. Leg locks were not allowed, and when a fight went to the ground, a player had only 25 seconds to escape a hold or pin before the match was lost. These are a few of the rules that hindered Judo as a realistic form of self-defense. Then why did Judo flourish and why was it so great? Even with all the rules and restrictions, the time-tested principle of "pure grappler beats pure striker," still holds true. The fact remains that most fights, even those fights occurring between strikers with no grappling experience, end up in a clinch. You see the clinch in just about every boxing match, and hundreds of punches usually need to be thrown to end the fight with a strike, which gives the grappler plenty of opportunity to take his/her opponent to the ground, where a pure striker has no experience and is at the grappler's mercy.

After a match-up between older styles of Jiu-jitsu and Judo at the Tokyo police headquarters, Judo was named the national martial art in Japan. It was the official art used by law enforcement in the late 1800's, and continues to be popular to this day. During World War II, many U.S. soldiers were exposed to the art of Judo and brought it back to America with them. The first issue of Black Belt magazine here in America (1961), featured a sketch of a Judo throw and was a special Judo issue.
It wasn't until the birth of martial arts in Hollywood that the mystique of martial arts myths were catapulted to the public eye on a large scale. Here in the U.S. especially, Bruce Lee was one of the greatest catalysts for martial arts in the world today. Bruce Lee was actually a student of Judo and did many studies on grappling while he was alive. He criticized traditional martial arts as being ineffective, but ironically spread more myths about martial arts through his movies than almost anyone in martial arts history.
Jigoro Kano was the founder of Judo, however, Judo is simply a style of Jiu-jitsu and not a separate martial art. Kano was not the first to use the name Judo, the Jiu-jitsu schools he studied at, which would be the source of much of his Judo's techniques had used the phrase before he made it famous in the late 1800's.

The first use of the name Judo was by Seijun Inoue IV, who applied it to his Jujitsu of Jikishin-ryu. Students of Jikishin-ryu Judo were not only expected to master its ninety-seven techniques, but to also develop into generous and gentle-mannered individuals.
Kuninori Suzuki V, the Master of Kito-ryu (Kito means to Rise and Fall) Jiu-jitsu, changed the name of Kito-kumiuchi to Kito-ryu Judo in 1714. The most important contribution that kito ryu would offer Judo was the principle of kuzushi (off-balancing), which is the key to the throwing techniques of modern Judo. Jigoro Kano studied the judo of Jikishin-ryu and Kito-ryu, and incorporated some of their concepts into his original system, which he named Kodokan Judo.

Judo is made up of many styles of Jiu-jitsu whose masters Kano had studied with. The most notable were Jikishin-ryu, Kito-ryu, and later Fusen-ryu would be incorporated for its groundwork (ne waza) as Kano would ask the style's head master, Mataemon Tanabe for his syllabus. Yokiashi Yamashita (Kano's Chief assistant) would add his knowledge of Yoshin Ryu ju jitsu and Tenshin shinyo Ryu ju jitsu, both of which, he was a master.

In 1912, Kano met with the remaining leader masters of Jiu Jitsu to finalize a Kodokan syllabus of training and kata. Aoyagi of Sosusihis Ryu, Takano, Yano, Kotaro Imei and Hikasuburo Ohshima from Takeuisi Ryu. Jushin Sekiguchi and Mogichi Tsumizu from Sekiguchi Ryu, Eguchi from Kyushin Ryu, Hoshino from Shiten Ryu, Inazu from Miura Ryu and finally, Takamatsu, a Kukkishin Ryu master, whose school specialized in weapons training.

Before the formal meeting between Kano and the grandmasters of Japan's greatest Jiu-jitsu schools, a defining event occurred, which is one of the most historically important pieces of the Brazilian Jiu-jitsu puzzle. By 1900, the Kodokan had been challenging other Jiu-Jitsu schools in sport competition and winning with throwing (standing) techniques. Much of the Kodokan's status was built on the throwing skills of Shiro Saigo, a practitioner of Oshikiuchi, the art of Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu. Jigoro Kano had actually enlisted the help of Shiro Saigo in order to win a famous tournament at the Tokyo police headquarters in 1886. This tournament, mentioned briefly earlier in this chapter, was Judo (Kano's style of Jujitsu) vs. "old" Jujitsu. It is interesting to note that Kano's champion was not originally a Judo student at all, but a student of an older Jujitsu style, which in reality, defeated the purpose of having a Judo vs. Jujitsu tournament in the first place.

As I stated earlier, Judo was a collection of Jiu-jitsu styles, once such style was the Fusen Ryu. Fusen was a school of Jiu-jitsu which specialized in Ground Work (Ne Waza). In 1900, the Kodokan challenged the Fusen Ryu school to a contest. At that time Judo did not have Ne Waza (ground fighting techniques), so instead they fought standing up, as Kano had been taught in both the Tenshin Shinyo Ryu and Kito Ryu systems he studied. Both Kito Ryu and Tenshin Shinyo Ryu had excellent striking skills and effective throws.
When Kodokan Judo practitioners fought the practitioners of Fusen Ryu Jiu-Jitsu, the Kodokan practitioners realized that there was no way they could defeat the Kodokan Judoka standing, thus they decided to use their superior ground fighting skills. When the Kodokan fighters and the Fusen Ryu men began to fight, the Jiu-Jitsu practitioners immediately went to the guard position ( lying on their backs in front of their opponents in order to control them with the use of their legs). The Kodokan Judoka didn't know what to do, and then the Fusen Ryu practitioners took them to the ground, using submission holds to win the matches. This was the first real loss that the Kodokan had experienced in eight years.

Kano knew that if they were going to continue challenging other Jiu-Jitsu schools, they needed a full range of ground fighting techniques. Thus with friends of other Jiu-Jitsu systems, among them being Fusen Ryu practitioners, Kano formulated the Ne Waza (ground techniques) of Kodokan Judo which included three divisions: Katame Waza (joint locking techniques), Shime Waza (choking techniques), and Osae Waza (holding techniques). This all occurs shortly before Judo arrives in Brazil, and serves as an excellent suggestion as to why Brazilian Jiu-jitsu contains a higher percentage of techniques on the ground than most styles of Jiu-jitsu or Judo. Thus, we find ourselves faced with the impending development of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil.

**BOUNCER** · 05-29-2005, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by yannick32

You guys are getting my confused here.

Doesnt Jiu Jistu have any throws, how about the take downs we see in MMA???

And what is the difference between BJJ and traditionnal Jiu Jitsu?????

I tought that in Jiu Jitsu class you learned the single and double leg takedown?

I'd have to bump this one along for Chicamohomico, he's TJJ. All I can say is that I've attented some TJJ seminar's and didn't particularly like it. I thought most of the take downs, joint locks etc were unrealistic and wouldn't work against a resisting opponent.

**BOUNCER** · 05-29-2005, 07:16 PM

Sorry, DIV I was posting my reply as you were posting yours. Didn't mean to be taking away from yours. Chica is a TJJ guy, I'd like to see his opinion on this one.

**Div1Wrestler** · 05-29-2005, 07:26 PM

LOL yeah I think everything is good its just what you like... Most every art has takedowns some are better than others. To find a traditional school of any art now I think would be a challege..

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 07:25 AM

OMG that is so much info to read i gotta print this for sure.

I will have to go see a Jiu Jitsu class to make up my mind, i hope its BJJ, i didn't go with aikido for that insane reason too cause its to complicated to apply in the street.
Guess you gotta be like Steven Seagal to be that good LOL.

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 07:28 AM

Div1Wrestler i think that in this era we are so lucky to have all thoses art we can chose from and most of them mix and match.

The school i found has a mix of karate tae kwon do and more based on street fighting and defense without any katas, has also judo and Jiu jistu i don't know if its street fighting at all for that.

Guess a mix of stand up and ground work is best. I would never go back to tradional karate nor tae kwon do when i can mix and match couple of art togheter.

**craneboy** · 05-30-2005, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Honestly BJJ bore's the tits off me.

too bad your not near a gracie school, cesars school is good. it combines bjj with kickboxing directed towards street fighting, no kata and no gi.

**BOUNCER** · 05-30-2005, 07:38 AM

Yannick have you thought of Vale Tudo?.

Here's a few links..

http://www.europeanvaletudo.com/links.asp

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 10:07 AM

Yes Bouncer i did, i am not done checking out schools around where i live.

And the prices too, i don't wanna ruine myself paying for martial arts LOL i still have a damn student loan to pay up and will soon be moving in with my new girlfriend in her appartement. So i guess that max i can afford for classes is going to be 50$ per month.

**BOUNCER** · 05-30-2005, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by yannick32

So i guess that max i can afford for classes is going to be 50$ per month.

JUDO is what your looking at. Even give it a try, you'll be surprised at how tough those guys are. Honestly I think its a brilliant sport, probably not the best for the street, that goes to Muay Thai, Kickboxing combined with either BJJ, JJ, or Judo (in no particular order). I think to be successfull in Vale Tudo you should already have a base in a striking skill. I think their the most exciting fighters, a guy who doesn't need to go to the ground.

Probably because I'm primarily a kickboxer, but I can't understand why a fighter would want to go to the ground (in competition or the street) and roll around for 5 minutes and you could probably take the majority of opponents out with a good stand up game.

I've recently started V.T. and their having a hard time into getting selling me on the finest points of going to the ground. Although Judo prepares me for the ground I just can't understand why there's so much attention payed to fighting on the ground and developing striking skills as a secondary skill.

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 12:15 PM

Quit easy Bouncer , if you get it on with a kickboxer or a guy like Wandy Silva you better take him to the ground cause he is gonna axe murder you if you stand up.

If you take on a bigger guy or heavier guy, you can always get away with side stepping and avoiding is shots but the ground seems pertty good to choke out someone.

The guys that have no experience in stand up will want to take you down, and a good sub artist will sub you on the ground not like the amateurs that are untrained in MMA.

You think that Royce Gracie would stand a chance in stand up fighting. I don't think so.

Even Cro Cop which is an exellent fighter got taken down by Nogeira and arm bared, that lead him to work on is ground game big time.

**Div1Wrestler** · 05-30-2005, 05:16 PM

YANNICK32
Guess a mix of stand up and ground work is best (you hit the nail on the head)

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 06:27 PM

For sure Div1Wrestler, Got some good news for the back pain, my doc gave me a bunch of exercice for posture and more to strengh train the weak parts.

Says that by September i should be all set up to start Martial arts.

I am very interested by the karate mix and tae kwon do that the sensei teaches near my house, i will also look into is Judo and Jiu jitsu class to see what they look like.

I did study judo for a year when i was 8 years old LOL but the school closed, so judo was my first martial art then got into karate at 13.

**yannick32** · 05-30-2005, 06:29 PM

Also you can learn a lot by watching the Pride and UFC and sometimes the KIng of the cage dvds, the commentator will really give you some amazing technics, you cant go wrong with Bas Rutten and Steven Quadros on the Pride dvd shame Steven left and was replaced by one of the biggest assholes in the biz Mario Ronallo what an idiot that guy is.

Throw the punch before the leg kick to avoid the takedown that is a good one.

**Div1Wrestler** · 05-31-2005, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by yannick32

For sure Div1Wrestler, Got some good news for the back pain, my doc gave me a bunch of exercice for posture and more to strengh train the weak parts.

Says that by September i should be all set up to start Martial arts.

I am very interested by the karate mix and tae kwon do that the sensei teaches near my house, i will also look into is Judo and Jiu jitsu class to see what they look like.

I did study judo for a year when i was 8 years old LOL but the school closed, so judo was my first martial art then got into karate at 13.

Back Pain is something Ive never had "knock on wood" but its a career killer if anything ...... (thats funny POSTURE is so important you see alot of people out there with and overdevloped chest and it pulling the shit out of there back.) Posture is the key in alot of grappling sports... One of the classes I teach is just on correct Posture in someones guard...

**Div1Wrestler** · 05-31-2005, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by yannick32

Also you can learn a lot by watching the Pride and UFC and sometimes the KIng of the cage dvds, the commentator will really give you some amazing technics, you cant go wrong with Bas Rutten and Steven Quadros on the Pride dvd shame Steven left and was replaced by one of the biggest assholes in the biz Mario Ronallo what an idiot that guy is.

Throw the punch before the leg kick to avoid the takedown that is a good one.

Way back when I first started in submission(13 years ago) we learn from info tapes..we would drill the same move for hours , It was all that was out there at the time..

Bas and Steven were the best they were informative as well as funny....