Neck cranks, are they allowed in your club?

**BOUNCER** · 06-29-2005, 04:47 PM

Got really badly hurt tonight in a neck crank. Its the second time in the last year its happened, and by the same guy too. I know alot of clubs in the USA won't allow them, does yours?

I was training Vale Tudo when it happened. I'm pissed because I've an army Judo training camp and competition this month. The last time this happened I was out of fighting for four weeks.

**Div1Wrestler** · 06-29-2005, 05:02 PM

We show all neck cranks and there tech.

We stop all neck cranks in sparring due to the "hurt" factor.

I will also say there is no shame in tapping out....

Also if someone keeps doing one move on someone time and time again. we pull them apart and teach the counter to the move and tell the other try to use more than one move....

**yannick32** · 06-29-2005, 05:50 PM

You guys go all out when you spar in the club?????

**BOUNCER** · 06-29-2005, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by yannick32

You guys go all out when you spar in the club?????

More or less, yes. But some things are suppose to be done with some control. ie, heal hooks, neck cranks, chokes etc. It depends on who your rolling/sparring with, their experience etc. The guy who cranked my neck tonight is probably one of my closest friends but a naturally strong and agressive fighter who can sometimes catch you unawares.

**phwSSJ** · 06-29-2005, 09:39 PM

I got hurt from this gerk who always used to put neck cranks on people in my gym. He had no teqnique just strength. He was a piece of sh1t asshole with an attitude. I ruptured my disk in competition from a neck crank but that was my fault cuz I didnt tap out.

I believe that neck cranks can be taught but I do not think they should ever be used in practice or in competition, there is no point. You can easily kill somebody or cause a lot of dammage otherwise. I have never used neck cranks in competition or in practice. Most of time its the jerks who use those maneuvers.

If I were you Bouncer, I would just avoid that guy, or if you cant since he trains in your gym, everytime you roll, just tap right when he puts his hands on around your head. He will get the point. that is what I did, I also said out loud that only jerks try cheap sh1t moves like that and everyone agreed. He put his tail between his legs that day and home without a word.

I fell the same way about heel hooks, only difference is they take more technique, but its so easy to pop someons acl that it should not be practiced or used in competition.
JMHO

**SprinterOne** · 06-29-2005, 10:45 PM

What the hell is a neck crank?

**BOUNCER** · 06-29-2005, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by SprinterOne

What the hell is a neck crank?

Here ya go, this is exactly what happened to me;

Basically the guy got his hands around the back of my head, pulling (or cranking) my chin onto my chest.

Just an update, I'd a very restless nights sleep and planning on seeing the Doctor in work tomorrow for some physio. At the moment its not feeling as bad as the last time it happened, thankfully I'm off work today so I'll go the gym just for a gentle swim and hit the hydrotherapy pool for an hour.

**phwSSJ** · 06-29-2005, 11:59 PM

BOUNCER, That is exactly what that jerk that I was talking about used to do to people.
There is no technique, and all you do is try to hurt the other guy. That is not something a training partner should be doing, but if its your buddy I guess you know your limits with each other.

Hopefully you didnt herniate a disk bro, cuz that can cause a whole lot of problems for you at your age. I wish the best for you and hope you just got some sore muscles or something minor. Get an MRI to make sure you didnt rupture or herniate a disk, cuz if that is the case and you go back and hurt it again, you might cause some permanent dammage and may need to have surgery.

That specific submission hold is called a CAN OPENER for those who do not know.
There are other variations of neck cranks which involve twisting of the neck, which are also dangerouse.
The CAN OPENER and the CRUSIFICS are ones that apply a huge axial load on the disks and vertebre and can cause fractures and ruptures, that is why ther are so dangerouse, most of the time you see muscle head jerks use them cuz they dont require much technique.

Trust me bro, I have been down this road and I would wish it on no one!

**BOUNCER** · 06-30-2005, 12:22 AM

I really don't think I've any permanent damage. When it happened I hear (or felt) three very distinct cracking sounds, like when you crack your knuckles, and stopped training straight away.

Btw, although he's my best friend he's not a grappler and only comes training occassionally, his sport is TKD (4th degree black belt). I know, I shouldn't be getting this from a TKD fighter but I really let my guard down with him and he cranked it on!.

Anyway, not to worry. We live and learn. Btw, I'm doing a guys corner in an MMA fight this Saturday night guys, I'll get some photos up on the forum after it. Then on Wednesday the guy is leaving Ireland to head for the USA, he's going to New York city with the hope of finding a good gym where he can improve his boxing, kickboxing or MMA.

Here's a preview of the bout from another forum. (Stuart Edgeworth is my guy)

'Stuart Edgeworth (Kickboxing) v Micheal Leonard (SBG) 70kgs

It's the biggest cliché in Mixed Martial Arts, so I'll only say it once: this is a classic striker versus grappler matchup!

Mick "Sissy Boy" Leonard, fighting out of SBG is a rising star of Irish MMA. Stuart Edgeworth, a proponent of kickboxing was victorious at the last Ring of Truth in an Ultimate Kickboxing match with Leonard's stablemate, Willie Hamill.

Leonard is known for his fierce slams and aggressive groundwork, displaying his submission skills with a win at the last Ring of Truth.
To counter this, national kickboxing champion Edgeworth, will try to use his powerful strikes to keep Leonard at bay, keeping the SBG fighter off balance and looking for an opportunity to deliver a crushiung, fight finishing strike.

Will Leonard be picked off by Edgeworth as he closes the distance or will he delight the crowd with a powerful slam? Will Edgeworth find himself on the receiving end of one of Leonard's tricksy submissions, or will he keep the fight standing and show what the striking game is all about?'

**SprinterOne** · 06-30-2005, 12:25 AM

Yikes, that is going on to my list of things I never want to experience. Ahead of gyno but behind bacne.

**phwSSJ** · 06-30-2005, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

The guy who cranked my neck tonight is probably one of my closest friends but a naturally strong and agressive fighter who can sometimes catch you unawares.

I missed that part earlier, I probably sounded pretty hostile.

I just get ticked off at those kind of things, cuz I have seen gyms with only muscle heads that have bad attitudes, and people get hurt all the time.

**phwSSJ** · 06-30-2005, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Btw, I'm doing a guys corner in an MMA fight this Saturday night guys, I'll get some photos up on the forum after it. Then on Wednesday the guy is leaving Ireland to head for the USA, he's going to New York city with the hope of finding a good gym where he can improve his boxing, kickboxing or MMA.

Cornering fights are fun.
Good luck to your fighter. There are some good schools out in NY. He should be able to find some good connected people there. I would say the best place to find connections would be Vegas, California, and Texas as far as trying to get somewhere in the MMA world.

**BOUNCER** · 06-30-2005, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by phwSSJ

I missed that part earlier, I probably sounded pretty hostile.

I just get ticked off at those kind of things, cuz I have seen gyms with only muscle heads that have bad attitudes, and people get hurt all the time.

Its cool, if I read the same story I'd be the same.

**yannick32** · 06-30-2005, 05:53 AM

You guys need to be careful, if i would ever get injured training MMA i would freaking get fired from my job and i work in tech support so when i go see the clients i can be all busted up.LOL

**BOUNCER** · 06-30-2005, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by yannick32

You guys need to be careful, if i would ever get injured training MMA i would freaking get fired from my job and i work in tech support so when i go see the clients i can be all busted up.LOL

Well be prepared for some hurt buddy!. Actually I find I'm injuried more from Judo than MMA or kickboxing. But for sure you'll get injured, get used to it!.

**phwSSJ** · 06-30-2005, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Actually I find I'm injuried more from Judo than MMA or kickboxing. But for sure you'll get injured, get used to it!.

That is so true,
I dont even remember the last time I got hurt sparring or doing any Muay Thai, but whenever it comes to judo or jiu jitsu, man I have a list of major injuries that have sidelined me for long periods of time.

**GQ-Bouncer** · 07-01-2005, 10:28 PM

Yes we allow neck cranks during sparring,

I would advise you to switch up partners, or tell him atleast to start going 40%, my school teaches you to be ultra-relaxed during jujitsu, what happens when your partner goes for an ankle lock and accidently torks out your ACL? but than again, thats just one school of thought

the novice fighters are the most dangerous in my opinion

I think one of the biggest problems with the neck crank is that its not painful enough to make you want to tap (as its often not applied 100% properly) and so you just sort of grit and bare the pain in hopes that you will get out of it, not realizing the damage until after the class

**GREENMACHINE** · 07-02-2005, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

I really don't think I've any permanent damage. When it happened I hear (or felt) three very distinct cracking sounds, like when you crack your knuckles, and stopped training straight away.

Btw, although he's my best friend he's not a grappler and only comes training occassionally, his sport is TKD (4th degree black belt). I know, I shouldn't be getting this from a TKD fighter but I really let my guard down with him and he cranked it on!.

Anyway, not to worry. We live and learn. Btw, I'm doing a guys corner in an MMA fight this Saturday night guys, I'll get some photos up on the forum after it. Then on Wednesday the guy is leaving Ireland to head for the USA, he's going to New York city with the hope of finding a good gym where he can improve his boxing, kickboxing or MMA.

Here's a preview of the bout from another forum. (Stuart Edgeworth is my guy)

'Stuart Edgeworth (Kickboxing) v Micheal Leonard (SBG) 70kgs

It's the biggest cliché in Mixed Martial Arts, so I'll only say it once: this is a classic striker versus grappler matchup!

Mick "Sissy Boy" Leonard, fighting out of SBG is a rising star of Irish MMA. Stuart Edgeworth, a proponent of kickboxing was victorious at the last Ring of Truth in an Ultimate Kickboxing match with Leonard's stablemate, Willie Hamill.

Leonard is known for his fierce slams and aggressive groundwork, displaying his submission skills with a win at the last Ring of Truth.
To counter this, national kickboxing champion Edgeworth, will try to use his powerful strikes to keep Leonard at bay, keeping the SBG fighter off balance and looking for an opportunity to deliver a crushiung, fight finishing strike.

Will Leonard be picked off by Edgeworth as he closes the distance or will he delight the crowd with a powerful slam? Will Edgeworth find himself on the receiving end of one of Leonard's tricksy submissions, or will he keep the fight standing and show what the striking game is all about?'

Where abouts is the MMA fight on. Is it just in your local gym or is it on somewhere bigger.

**USN DV** · 07-02-2005, 06:03 AM

My school would allow neck cracks also, But everyone who I trained with the except one guy had good control.

**BOUNCER** · 07-02-2005, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by GREENMACHINE

Where abouts is the MMA fight on. Is it just in your local gym or is it on somewhere bigger.

Its in the National boxing statium on the South Circular Road. Unfortunetly all the tickets have just sold out!. But if your around you could try get admittance at the front door. Its 25Euro. Kicks off at 20:00 tonight (Saturday 2nd).

Update on my fighter. He failed to make the weight this morning, he was 2.5kgs over (5.5 lbs). Luckily we'd a few hours to make the weight, started at 12:30 and made it at 13:15, the first bout isn't untill 20:30 so hopefully we've enough time to redydrate him and get him fed etc. He's well condition and a superb athlete but damn thats alot of weight to have to drop. He's fighting at 70kgs (154lbs).

**GREENMACHINE** · 07-02-2005, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

Its in the National boxing statium on the South Circular Road. Unfortunetly all the tickets have just sold out!. But if your around you could try get admittance at the front door. Its 25Euro. Kicks off at 20:00 tonight (Saturday 2nd).

Update on my fighter. He failed to make the weight this morning, he was 2.5kgs over (5.5 lbs). Luckily we'd a few hours to make the weight, started at 12:30 and made it at 13:15, the first bout isn't untill 20:30 so hopefully we've enough time to redydrate him and get him fed etc. He's well condition and a superb athlete but damn thats alot of weight to have to drop. He's fighting at 70kgs (154lbs).

That would have been good too see. I could access the web for the last few hours.

**BOUNCER** · 07-03-2005, 02:46 AM

UPDATE;

My guy lost by armbar 3mins 20sec's into round one.

**GQ-Bouncer** · 07-03-2005, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

UPDATE;

My guy lost by armbar 3mins 20sec's into round one.

win or lose he came out of that tournament a better fighter

I hope hes not to broken up about it

**GREENMACHINE** · 07-03-2005, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by BOUNCER

UPDATE;

My guy lost by armbar 3mins 20sec's into round one.

Sorry to here that bro.

Dumb question was armbar the move or his opponent?

**BOUNCER** · 07-03-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by GREENMACHINE

Dumb question was armbar the move or his opponent?

I'm not sure what that means, sorry?.

Btw GREENMACHINE I didn't get any photos but when the DVD of the night is released I'll let you know, you'll be surprised at the quality of MMA in Ireland. But in the mean time if your interested in MMA and clubs in Ireland you can checkout www.irmac.net.