Can Beefy guys fight?

**Drengr** · 08-05-2005, 11:30 AM

First of i'de like to know in boxing since. Can beefy guys become good fighters?

I just wanted to see some opinions on this.

I also have a additional question, and I guess this comes down to more or less, how you react to training. Do what works for you I guess.

Everyone I ever talk to is so against heavy lifting if their fighters.

Its kind of odd b/c the Russians are the ones that perfected heavy lifting and periodization for athletes and the Klitscko (i can't spell it) brothers train with power lifting/ Olympic lifting techniques. There are certainly successful in boxing.

Box This* · 08-05-2005, 11:45 AM

Beefy guys can fight with out a dout.

I wouldnt say all out heavey lifting klitchko does but you can see he is shaped like he lifts wieghts...and also i think he would get destoyed against recently passed boxers such as tyson...lewis...holyfield in there prime they would eat him

**Drengr** · 08-05-2005, 01:25 PM

Based on watching films and studying them, Yeh I agree,

He would loose to both MT, L, H, in thier prime

I was not saying he was the best ever but I just wanted to used an example of someone who lifts and is accomplished.

by the way tyson before he went to jail........ didn't even lift weights that genetically freakish beast.....

What a waist........ but then again being undisciplined was one of his traits so....

no ones the perfect fighter

**Squatman51** · 08-06-2005, 01:39 AM

one of the instructors at this boxing school i went to a couple times said that guys with big muscles are easier to fatigue because you punch them in the chest and stuff and there punches slow because there muscles are so much bigger and...... well something like that

**BOUNCER** · 08-06-2005, 03:43 AM

I fight at 250lbs and don't find it a big deal. Bigger guys just fight with different techniques, depending on what style we're talking about.

**1819** · 08-06-2005, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Squatman51

one of the instructors at this boxing school i went to a couple times said that guys with big muscles are easier to fatigue because you punch them in the chest and stuff and there punches slow because there muscles are so much bigger and...... well something like that

very true. big arms get very tired and are very hard to hold up in late rounds. those arms get heavy. lived with a two time heavyweight champ for about a year. he trained for a fight only once with big weights and it was a disaster.

**billy_ba** · 08-06-2005, 09:06 AM

I would rather be thin light strong and quick rather than big and beefy and strong. But overall, technique and endurance is what will win any fight regardless of size.

Box This* · 08-06-2005, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Squatman51

one of the instructors at this boxing school i went to a couple times said that guys with big muscles are easier to fatigue because you punch them in the chest and stuff and there punches slow because there muscles are so much bigger and...... well something like that

Well said bro and hes right...doesnt matter how much wieght you lift to make your punch harder...the fact is in the ring you cannot beat skill....but beefy guys can still fight.

**littleguns** · 08-07-2005, 08:19 PM

about tyson not lifting wieghts before prison?! I CALL BULLSH*T. I once stayed at a resort where he used to LIVE. In the weight room they had i talked to one of the girls who worked there and she said he used to hit that place up all the time.

**_Tiger_** · 08-07-2005, 08:44 PM

...Can beefy guys fight...WTF? uhh YEA?

**Samson1** · 08-11-2005, 04:31 PM

The best fighters are always medium sized to big too slow, to small to weak, its that simple,I strive to be strong,sturdy,obsorbant yet fast and lightweight(even though im a heavyweight lol)

but big dudes can fight as long as they a'int clumsy

**1819** · 08-11-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by littleguns

about tyson not lifting wieghts before prison?! I CALL BULLSH*T. I once stayed at a resort where he used to LIVE. In the weight room they had i talked to one of the girls who worked there and she said he used to hit that place up all the time.

he did not lift while training for fights. maybe in his off time now and again, but not while training. period.

**Gorgoroth_** · 08-15-2005, 10:42 PM

Ernesto hoost is a good fighter.. yet he's been rail roaded by bob sapp several times. One time, Sapp KO'ed hoost in the first round, another match I watched Hoost just more or less gave up and took a beating until a ref stopped the match. Ernesto still managed to **** sapp up but at the end of the fight hoost couldn't do shit, couldn't even block the punches coming at him.

Strength can overcome skill. I took wreslting in highschool, and one of my coach'es previous students only knew three moves, but he could bench press 420 lbs. He won simply by overpowering his opponents. Yea, he was ****ed in the end when he wreslted a guy who was as strong as him and knew more moves.

Ken Shammrock put it best. A bigger, stronger guy with equal skill to a smaller guy is going to **** the smaller guy up.

As for big guys being slow.. thats a huge misconception. I've seen 300 lbs guys that can run the 40 yard faster than a lot of smaller guys i've seen. Also, excercises like the Powerclean require speed as well as strength.

**crag** · 08-16-2005, 05:27 AM

D,
For boxing above a certain weight becomes useless which is why 99% of the best heavyweights throughout history were around 210-240lbs only.

You see an occasional monster like Bob Sapp or 350 lb Nikolai Valouea do okay smashing out middle ranked pros or old kickboxers, who are usually too scared or too tired to fight back properly.

However when they come up against quality pro boxers,(like WB top 10) they start getting killed. The giants and strongmen NEVER make it into the top ranks.

Guys around 280-350 whatever just don't throw as hard as a top boxer either. The punches have way more 'push' and will cream the average guy still, but do not have enough velocity(snap) to rock the heads of the toughest heavyweights.

Like anything there is an 'optimal size' for the job at hand.

Ask an olympic javelin guy at 210 why he doesn't want to bulk up like a hammer thrower.

Because the javelin will not go as far.

That's a fact.

As mentioned above a big guy is not necesarily slow. For example the hammer thrower or shotputter at 350lbs may even be faster than a boxer over 40 yards. Olympic weightlifters are in fact as fast as track sprinters over the first 10 yards as they need the explosive power to lift what they lift.

However a punch is more like a javelin throw or tennis serve than a big lift, in that it comes down to a special slingshot, body moving type action.

Which the top 210-240lb guys do best.

Other points- Anyone can learn to fight 'to a goodish standard' of course, regardless of shape or size.

And some weights is okay for boxing.

The biggest problem for bodybuilding for lighter boxers is your body gets bigger, but you can never make your head any tougher.
So you go up three divisions say, but still have say a lightweights head on your shoulders, and you can get knocked out too easy.

For heavyweights a bit of weight is okay. But once again, too far and you will drift away from your best punching size anyway.

Wrestling, size of course is an advantage.

**Gorgoroth_** · 08-16-2005, 09:48 AM

Size correlating to a weak punch ? Sorry, bullshit.

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say a big guy is too slow to create the velocity needed for a big punch, then on the other hand you're stating olympic powerlifters are fast, so which one is it ?

They're a few factors you have to take into consideration. If you get a 300 beast he is more than likely going to be a shitload stronger than a 200 lbs guy, so much so that any velocity he may loose in a punch he's going to make up for in raw strength.

According to your hypotheses a teenage boy should be packing more of a punch than an adult male. As teenagers we're generally lighter,faster, and have more endurance than in out latter years, so a teen boy SHOULD pack more of a punch than an adult male, but how often does that happen ?

**crag** · 08-20-2005, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gorgoroth_

Size correlating to a weak punch ? Sorry, bullshit.

You're contradicting yourself. On one hand, you say a big guy is too slow to create the velocity needed for a big punch, then on the other hand you're stating olympic powerlifters are fast, so which one is it ?

No contradiction. And I did not say size correlates to a weak punch.

I think we got mixed up with me talking about at top levels and you about the average guy.

Pease follow on.

The inital power requirement to get out of the blocks is what allows a weightlifter to equal the sprinter.

After that body mechanics(who has the best structure for the job at hand) takes over and the sprinter obviously gets ahead.

Similarly the initial power of the weightlifter/giant may be as high or higher than the boxer, but the top boxers body type, in the same way as the sprinter goes up to the next gear, will allow him to create greater kinetic energy/momentum etc with his fist.

Like why 180lb is the best weight for highest running speed. 210lbs is best for throwing a javelin,190lbs is best for fastest tennis serve, 240lbs is best for discus.

210-240lbs is where biggest punches are thrown. That's a fact.

They're a few factors you have to take into consideration. If you get a 300 beast he is more than likely going to be a shitload stronger than a 200 lbs guy, so much so that any velocity he may loose in a punch he's going to make up for in raw strength.

I see what you are saying asnd agree with it generally.

Since for the average guy, all else being equal, and little training bigger will be better..

Like say at a local javelin comp, there might be a short fat 250lb dude, a flabby 210lbs dude and a 300lb muscleman.

Sure the 300lb guy is where I put my money on.

However the closer you get to world class, the more the one with the correct body type, and 'enough power' to make it work, will begin to get ahead.

You will not see a 300lb dude taking a medal in Javelin at the olympics.

And you will not see a 300lb guy winning a world title in boxing.

Karl.

**Samson1** · 08-20-2005, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by crag

No contradiction. And I did not say size correlates to a weak punch.

I think we got mixed up with me talking about at top levels and you about the average guy.

Pease follow on.

The inital power requirement to get out of the blocks is what allows a weightlifter to equal the sprinter.

After that body mechanics(who has the best structure for the job at hand) takes over and the sprinter obviously gets ahead.

Similarly the initial power of the weightlifter/giant may be as high or higher than the boxer, but the top boxers body type, in the same way as the sprinter goes up to the next gear, will allow him to create greater kinetic energy/momentum etc with his fist.

Like why 180lb is the best weight for highest running speed. 210lbs is best for throwing a javelin,190lbs is best for fastest tennis serve, 240lbs is best for discus.

210-240lbs is where biggest punches are thrown. That's a fact.

I see what you are saying asnd agree with it generally.

Since for the average guy, all else being equal, and little training bigger will be better..

Like say at a local javelin comp, there might be a short fat 250lb dude, a flabby 210lbs dude and a 300lb muscleman.

Sure the 300lb guy is where I put my money on.

However the closer you get to world class, the more the one with the correct body type, and 'enough power' to make it work, will begin to get ahead.

You will not see a 300lb dude taking a medal in Javelin at the olympics.

And you will not see a 300lb guy winning a world title in boxing.

Karl.

class post mate you hit the nail right on the head