This guy can beat FEDOR!!

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12-17-2005, 02:22 PM
catabolic kid

This guy can beat FEDOR!!

Nobody, under MMA rules can beat FEDOR (unless there is a lucky punch, i.e. cro cop v randleman).

Now, if it is under VALE TUDO, there is one guy who I could do the job.....MARK KERR.

I know that may upset some of the MMA fans but, think about this... Ok, the bell rings and mark kerr would easily take down fedor (this is fedors only weakness..takedown defense), now, Mark Kerr is the best in the history of MMA at "GROUNDING AND CONTROLLING." He can take anyone down with ease and control them EASILY... he is unbelievable at this. But, he cant ground and pound under MMA rules (no elbows or headbutts). Even Bas said that "they took all the weapons of Kerr."

In conclusion, I love FEDOR, but KErr could easily take him down and control him and than begin to head butt and elbow and win the fight. I know that is not a popular thing to say, but it is very possible. Now if it were MMA, kerr would easily take him down and control him, but it would eventually be stood up by the referee...I think in MMa it would be a draw...Fedor cannot get kErr on the ground and would not be able to stay on his feet ....kerr would be laying on him the entire time...in MMA.

One more thing, MMA is all about positioning.

Kerr would be in a dominant position the entire fight.

In MMa this dominant position would not do him any good.

In VALE TUDO, this dominant poosition would enable him to do damage-he cant ground and pound with punches alone, but if he had the addition of elbows and headbutts, he could get the job done.
12-17-2005, 07:46 PM
Kraye

Thats a fight that would have to play out in order to say "yes, he can beat Fedor". Time after time Fedor has been taken down and got back up, or on top. Fedor can't seem to keep himself from being taken down to save his life but he has the ability to turn the tables in an instant. Fedor is explosive, one moment you think hes out manuvered and in the next instant he pulls a rabbit out his ass and your left saying to yourself "holy ***! , as if he just did that"!
While most other fights can be predicted, bottom line, imo, Fedor and Kerr would have to fight to declare whos the better fighter, they both bring amazing skills, rock solid chins and more heart than any 10 fighters.
Its an even if alternate skill based match-up that I would love to see!
12-17-2005, 10:17 PM
davinci191

Quote:

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

Nobody, under MMA rules can beat FEDOR (unless there is a lucky punch, i.e. cro cop v randleman).

Now, if it is under VALE TUDO, there is one guy who I could do the job.....MARK KERR.

I know that may upset some of the MMA fans but, think about this... Ok, the bell rings and mark kerr would easily take down fedor (this is fedors only weakness..takedown defense), now, Mark Kerr is the best in the history of MMA at "GROUNDING AND CONTROLLING." He can take anyone down with ease and control them EASILY... he is unbelievable at this. But, he cant ground and pound under MMA rules (no elbows or headbutts). Even Bas said that "they took all the weapons of Kerr."

In conclusion, I love FEDOR, but KErr could easily take him down and control him and than begin to head butt and elbow and win the fight. I know that is not a popular thing to say, but it is very possible. Now if it were MMA, kerr would easily take him down and control him, but it would eventually be stood up by the referee...I think in MMa it would be a draw...Fedor cannot get kErr on the ground and would not be able to stay on his feet ....kerr would be laying on him the entire time...in MMA.

One more thing, MMA is all about positioning.

Kerr would be in a dominant position the entire fight.

In MMa this dominant position would not do him any good.

In VALE TUDO, this dominant poosition would enable him to do damage-he cant ground and pound with punches alone, but if he had the addition of elbows and headbutts, he could get the job done.

first off I frickin love kerr!!!! now when they took head butts out, it changed the game big time. but lets get to punching. remember igor rocked Kerr and that caused him that fight . Now please dont tell me he would beat fedor because coleman had a good chance and out of nowhere comes the most beautiful arm bar ever. The man is a STUD
12-18-2005, 06:36 PM
catabolic kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by davinci191

first off I frickin love kerr!!!! now when they took head butts out, it changed the game big time. but lets get to punching. remember igor rocked Kerr and that caused him that fight . Now please dont tell me he would beat fedor because coleman had a good chance and out of nowhere comes the most beautiful arm bar ever. The man is a STUD

#1- Coleman is a pure wrestler, Kerr is a 2 time abu dhabi champion. Nobody has ever submitted kerr, coleman was submitted by Nobuhiko Takada!!

#2- Yes, Kerr was rocked by Igor(recovered immediately), but before that he was on top of IGor for a while but could not do anything...THIS IS BECASUE HE CANT "G and P" IN MMA, if it were vale tudo, he would have finished Igor way before he got rocked...Kerr gets frustrated easily if he does not dominate(that may be his weakness, but again, in Vale Tudo this would not be an issue.

This is my whole claim, in VALE TUDO, Mark Kerr would beat the Sh*t out of anyone...in MMA I think it would be a draw with Fedor, even though I believe Fedor is better in MMA. Kerr would be able to control fedor in mma and keep him from using any offense and in Vale Tudo he could win...the main thing is that Kerr cant g and p with punches alone...he would kill anyone if he could elbow and head butt.
12-19-2005, 04:25 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

#1- Coleman is a pure wrestler, Kerr is a 2 time abu dhabi champion. Nobody has ever submitted kerr, coleman was submitted by Nobuhiko Takada!!

#2- Yes, Kerr was rocked by Igor(recovered immediately), but before that he was on top of IGor for a while but could not do anything...THIS IS BECASUE HE CANT "G and P" IN MMA, if it were vale tudo, he would have finished Igor way before he got rocked...Kerr gets frustrated easily if he does not dominate(that may be his weakness, but again, in Vale Tudo this would not be an issue.

This is my whole claim, in VALE TUDO, Mark Kerr would beat the Sh*t out of anyone...in MMA I think it would be a draw with Fedor, even though I believe Fedor is better in MMA. Kerr would be able to control fedor in mma and keep him from using any offense and in Vale Tudo he could win...the main thing is that Kerr cant g and p with punches alone...he would kill anyone if he could elbow and head butt.

#1 takada- coleman was considered one of the worst works in all of MMA and proven to be that.....coleman was given a deal, submit to takada and get an easy ride to the finals of the 2000 grand prix. Funny how Fujita threw in the towel at the beginning of the match and his other fight was what akira shoji i believe? It is true kerr is a great grappler tho i will give it that.

#2 Nobody has seen fedor fight in a vale tudo fight....he could easily get as nasty as kerr with the digging in the cuts with the fingers.....kerr had great headbutts and knees but who did he display them against....paul varelans? Fabio Gugel was the only one with a winning record he fought in vale tudo and he was 3-2.

#3 Igor vovchanchyn has very below par ground game.....this is well known in sambo circles.....he is purely a kickboxer and only trained combat sambo within the past few years......I have plenty of vovchanchyns very first undocumented fights where he is either knocking people out or being submitted.......the only great submission specialist that i can think of off the top of my head igor faced was mario sperry who was a lot lighter than him and igor was submitted very quickly.....other than that he fought an exhausted sakuraba who fought royce gracie for an hour and a half not to long before.

I'm not gonna lie I do agree with you that Kerr was awesome and prolly could pose a real threat to fedor even in Pride. He was unstoppable in his prime it seemed but when he got creamed by igor and tossed around by fujita it really killed that aura of invincibility. If he got his shit together and stopped doing drugs and stayed away from that girl than who knows where mark kerr would be today.....I know one thing for sure......he's no bigger than I am now and he's got no shot in the MMA world now.
12-20-2005, 06:56 AM
davinci191

bottom line guy's kerr changed the game he did so much for the sport and if I ever get the chance I will thank him for all that he did. he was incredible and i cant say what would happen in a VALE TUDO match but at Kerr's prime there is no way I would rule him out!
12-20-2005, 11:46 AM
catabolic kid

USfighter and Davince...good responses. I expected a lot of people to make unfair comparisons.
12-20-2005, 11:51 AM
davinci191

the man was great and so is fedor sooooo you have to be realiistic
12-21-2005, 07:42 AM
sonar1234

Last time we saw Kerr in Pride he got beat by a nobody in 27 seconds.

He is one hell of a takedown artist but still Fedor would beat him.
12-21-2005, 12:45 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonar1234

Last time we saw Kerr in Pride he got beat by a nobody in 27 seconds.

He is one hell of a takedown artist but still Fedor would beat him.

LAst time we saw kerr in pride he was a shell of his former self, physique wise and he knocked himself out. He was in a car accident a few days prior where a doctor told him not to fight because any minor trauma to his head from then on would cause him to go unconscious. He took down yamamoto and unfortunately his head hit the canvas at the same time yamamoto went down.
12-21-2005, 01:25 PM
catabolic kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by USfighterFC

LAst time we saw kerr in pride he was a shell of his former self, physique wise and he knocked himself out. He was in a car accident a few days prior where a doctor told him not to fight because any minor trauma to his head from then on would cause him to go unconscious. He took down yamamoto and unfortunately his head hit the canvas at the same time yamamoto went down.

That is interesting...I never heard that or what oyu said about Coleman letting Takada tap him out...still I do not think that Fedor could pull that off on Kerr.
12-21-2005, 01:35 PM
catabolic kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonar1234

Last time we saw Kerr in Pride he got beat by a nobody in 27 seconds.

He is one hell of a takedown artist but still Fedor would beat him.

How do you think Fedor would win over Kerr?

( I am taking when they are both in their prime)
12-21-2005, 01:36 PM
catabolic kid

Kerr would eliminate Fedors striking and would easily take him down, and land in Fedors guard.

So, for Fedor to win the fight he would have to ba able to submit kerr form his guard. That is it, Kerr would have no problem taking Fedor down and if Fedor could sweep him (highly unlikely) he would easily take him right back down.

Again, the fight would be Kerr operating from within Fedors guard and the only way he would win is to be able to submit him from off of his back. I really do not think Fedor could tap out the 2 x abu dhabi champ while he is getting elbowed and headbutted in the face-this is the key, Kerr would have never of lost a fight if he were fighting VALE TUDO...you really have to consider how much of a difference this would make for KERR.I know Fedor submitted Coleman and swept Randleman, but you cannnot compare these 2 to Kerr becasue they are also Wrestlers.
12-21-2005, 03:22 PM
USfighterFC

dude kerr is a wrestler too, your speaking like he wasnt an all-state wrestling champ and an elite wrestler from ohio state.....the reason why he was so good at grappling because he was just so ****in enormous and strong it was hard to get him into some type of submission when your on the bottom of him 90% of the time. Randleman was a better wrestler than kerr was going something like 42-0 in college and becoming only the second person in ohio state history to go undefeated and fedor flipped his ass over pretty easily.....your underestimating fedor's strength by a lot and nobody nullifies his striking just like that. Suppose kerr does his usual double leg takedown and fedor throws a huge knee to counter it and kerr gets knocked out. Fights over.
12-23-2005, 11:47 AM
catabolic kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by USfighterFC

dude kerr is a wrestler too, your speaking like he wasnt an all-state wrestling champ and an elite wrestler from ohio state.....the reason why he was so good at grappling because he was just so ****in enormous and strong it was hard to get him into some type of submission when your on the bottom of him 90% of the time. Randleman was a better wrestler than kerr was going something like 42-0 in college and becoming only the second person in ohio state history to go undefeated and fedor flipped his ass over pretty easily.....your underestimating fedor's strength by a lot and nobody nullifies his striking just like that. Suppose kerr does his usual double leg takedown and fedor throws a huge knee to counter it and kerr gets knocked out. Fights over.

I said '' you cannot compare coleman and randleman to kerr just because they are ALSO wrestlers." I know Kerr was a wrestler. Randleman is not a better wrestler than Kerr. Mark Kerr beat Kurt Angle (gold medal, freestyle, 220lbs) twice prior to the 1996 olympics...he would have won gold if he did not tear his ACL (major knee injury) just before the olympics. Randleman is a great wrestler, comparable with Kerr, but he often gets swept by guys in the 205 lb divison that are much weaker than him....In other words, he could not translate his wrestling skills into MMA as Kerr did. What you said about Fedor Kneeing Kerr when he went for a takedown-that is a possibility...but we are speaking theoreticly. You cannot argue your point with that scenario...Prior to the Randleman and Cro Cop fight nobody would say"well Randleman could probably fake CC, make him drop his hands, and then Knock him out with a left hook...nobody with sense would say that. The bottom line is, Fedor would not sweep Kerr, just because he swept Randleman(who is not as good a fighter or wrestler as Kerr), look at how many times Randleman has been beaten when he is like younger, stronger and faster than his opponents...Kerr does not make the mental mistakes that Randleman consistently makes.

As for eliminating his striking, Fedors weakness is takedown defense, Kerr is the best takedwon guy ever in MMA, this means Fedor would be on his back nearly the entire fight. So, now that he is on his back he needs to get a 255 pound Abu Dhabi champ and world class wrestler off of him while he is "smashing" him with elbows and headbutts. If kerr gets careless and Fedor gets up, there is a great chance that kerr will take him right back down and start the smashing process over again.
12-23-2005, 03:52 PM
USfighterFC

See your whole point is Kerr's size....its so overwhelming that its hard to get away from it. Randleman is 5'10 and is so much more explosive than Kerr. The reason why randleman gets swept all the time is cuz 1. He is a lot smaller than Kerr 2.Doesnt have the strength Kerr does. When I was pointing out Randlemans wrestling being better than Kerr's it was in his college years. Randleman holds many records, even over coleman, who also beat Angle. The difference is Randleman wrestled in 177 pound weight class while kerr and coleman were 190 pounds and up I believe. When coleman beat angle he was out of college and roided up at that time. I think we can both assume kerr was also. Kevin randleman didnt graduate college until 1993 and was hardly in the olympic wrestling scene. Also a point is randleman (God knows why) doesnt start training for fights until 2 weeks prior to the fight. He's so physically gifted but takes no advantage of it. Coleman says its very hard to get him to train on the mats.

You brought up great points tho. You're right that Randleman never honed his skills like Kerr did to the MMA world and Kerr was in a diff league when it came to his wrestling. Honestly i've thought about this matchup also and I;ve said that kerr could PROBABLY be the one to dethrone fedor in his prime even in an MMA fight. He's insane and unstoppable when he was in "the fight" and could probably beat everyone. I just think igor vovchanchyn had his number and even Kerr couldnt beat igor in vale tudo since igor did many of those himself. But Vale tudo I'd give kerr the advantage over fedor.
12-23-2005, 05:18 PM
sonar1234

In no way am i saying that Kerr is worthless, he has some of the best takedown and would have beaten Coleman hands down anytime even worst with Randleman.

He was a damn tank in UFC beating everyone.

Its all that drug and crap that killed him, he could have been so much in MMA.

Sad thing about wrestlers is most of the time they just cant finish the fight, Fedor on the other hand has some amazing submitions and one hell of a g and pound.
12-23-2005, 05:24 PM
Nikolaus777

you are nutz
fedor is a sambo champion

kerr has been dead for 5 years and will never return from the grave
12-23-2005, 05:35 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikolaus777

you are nutz
fedor is a sambo champion

kerr has been dead for 5 years and will never return from the grave

we're talking about in kerr's prime
12-23-2005, 05:37 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonar1234

In no way am i saying that Kerr is worthless, he has some of the best takedown and would have beaten Coleman hands down anytime even worst with Randleman.

He was a damn tank in UFC beating everyone.

Its all that drug and crap that killed him, he could have been so much in MMA.

Sad thing about wrestlers is most of the time they just cant finish the fight, Fedor on the other hand has some amazing submitions and one hell of a g and pound.

Thats why Kerr is so different....in 17 fights they have only gone to decision twice.
12-29-2005, 02:11 PM
catabolic kid

The wrestlers are at the biggest disadvantage in MMA....I base this entire claim on Vale Tudo rules.

It is kind of funny that Kerr and Coleman really have no punching power at all...this is why they cannot GnP in MMA. But in Vale Tudo, Kerr would have destroyed everyone with the elbows and Headbutts.

Full contact fights are ALL ABOUT POSITIONING, the winner is a guy who can put him self in a advantageous position (mount, side control or even the guard).

KERR is the master of positioning....he just could not GnP once he was in these positions.

Again, this is all based on Kerr being in Vale tudo rules...dont underestimate how much of a difference this would make....and again, the difference between Vale Tudo rules and MMA rules hurt the GnP fighters the most.

Also, USfighterC, I was saying that Randleman even would get sweeped when he was fighting at 205...in this case he was way bigger and stronger than all of his opponents.
12-30-2005, 12:03 AM
Tedbear981

I would have to go with Kerr in his prime over Fedor...but still theres always those heavy hands of fedor.....
01-03-2006, 08:00 PM
realmxofxnoise

Kerr is by far my favorite fighter in MMA history. The guy brought something to the game that people only wish they could. He had all the respect in the world, and his athleticism was unbelievable.

Right now, Kerr would get smashed by Fedor. In Kerr's prime, he would definitely stand a chance. This discussion has been done a number of times over at Sherdog and people still don't realize how amazing Kerr was.

Fedor is a cyborg, but he would not submit Kerr. Though Coleman may have had a better wrestling career than Kerr, because Fedor arm barred him doesn't mean he would submit Kerr.

Lets not forget Kerr is a two time Abu Dhabi champ. The man is a master of submissions and submission defense. He trains with the Machado brothers, so he's no joke.

Kerr's never been placed on his back and held there for more than a half a second. He's got the best take downs in MMA history, and with vale tudo rules, he definitely was unstoppable.
01-03-2006, 09:12 PM
USfighterFC

Only thing is Kerr was just so goddamn huge, and strong. And he wasn't exactly all natural. That's a pretty big advantage
01-03-2006, 11:11 PM
realmxofxnoise

Quote:

Originally Posted by USfighterFC

Only thing is Kerr was just so goddamn huge, and strong. And he wasn't exactly all natural. That's a pretty big advantage

If you're worried about being natural or on gear, then you should be pointing the fingers at almost everyone in the sport. Gear doesn't make him a better take down artist, or submission artist. Sure, if proper training and diet, you can have strength gains, but lets face facts...

Kerr was a monster at 190 in College wrestling and in his MMA days too.
01-07-2006, 02:58 AM
Tedbear981

Since food is the most anabolic substance there is, Fedor cheats that fat bastard! LOL
Just imagine hitting on Fedors wife at a bar and this chubby guy not that big comes over to get it on...man how bad would that go!
01-07-2006, 01:19 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by realmxofxnoise

If you're worried about being natural or on gear, then you should be pointing the fingers at almost everyone in the sport. Gear doesn't make him a better take down artist, or submission artist. Sure, if proper training and diet, you can have strength gains, but lets face facts...

Kerr was a monster at 190 in College wrestling and in his MMA days too.

A lot of lesser known guys prolly juice more but the more well known guys dont. Hammerhouse is a squad of juicers but thats well known. People like kimo are obvious. The thing is Kerr straight up CHEATED in his fights, coming into the fights on nubain and even admitted to doing so saying that his threashold for pain is incredibly high beccause of it.
01-07-2006, 09:21 PM
catabolic kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by USfighterFC

A lot of lesser known guys prolly juice more but the more well known guys dont. Hammerhouse is a squad of juicers but thats well known. People like kimo are obvious. The thing is Kerr straight up CHEATED in his fights, coming into the fights on nubain and even admitted to doing so saying that his threashold for pain is incredibly high beccause of it.

Dont buy into what KERR said in the documentary about his pain threshold in the ring.

That is not why an MMA athlete would take nubain...he was taking it because of the pain of his injuries and then got addicted.

No mma athlete ever looses a fight because he gets punched and quits because it hurts too bad.

Besides, when Kerr started taking Nubain he was not taking any punishment in his fights...look at his fights in the UFC...he won two tournaments without even taking one punch.

So, dont think that he was taking Nubain so he could take punishment...he only said that in the movie for the general audienceto be shocked or something.
01-07-2006, 10:18 PM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by catabolic kid

Dont buy into what KERR said in the documentary about his pain threshold in the ring.

That is not why an MMA athlete would take nubain...he was taking it because of the pain of his injuries and then got addicted.

No mma athlete ever looses a fight because he gets punched and quits because it hurts too bad.

Besides, when Kerr started taking Nubain he was not taking any punishment in his fights...look at his fights in the UFC...he won two tournaments without even taking one punch.

So, dont think that he was taking Nubain so he could take punishment...he only said that in the movie for the general audienceto be shocked or something.

That doesn't make any kind of sense. He would say it to make people shocked? You could be right that that's how his addiction started was because of all the injuries. But he took painkillers while he was fighting and admitted to it, and that was outside the documentary. Pride doesnt test for ANY drugs at ANY time. I think that's where the majority of his drug use came from since he fought in the UFC only four times on two separate occasions. In Pride he took tremendous amount of punishment in both of his fights with Vovchanchyn and was destroyed by Heath Herrings knees. He had a great jaw and such and if he was on any sort of painkiller he certainly didnt need them, but hey addiction is a bitch.

As to regards of saying an MMA athlete won't quit cuz he gets punches and it hurts. Maybe not a punch but a body kick which has happened plenty of times or submissions maybe someone could power out of if he could hold on hold out for another second. Or get caught in a sub at the end of a round and take the pain so they could make it to the bell. There's a huge variety of things why someone could take them and that's not even counting walking in the ring with injuries you may already have sustained. He may have walked in his second match in the UFC hurt for all we know.(Just speculating)
01-08-2006, 07:37 AM
Div1Wrestler

Quote:

Originally Posted by USfighterFC

dude kerr is a wrestler too, your speaking like he wasnt an all-state wrestling champ and an elite wrestler from ohio state.....the reason why he was so good at grappling because he was just so ****in enormous and strong it was hard to get him into some type of submission when your on the bottom of him 90% of the time. Randleman was a better wrestler than kerr was going something like 42-0 in college and becoming only the second person in ohio state history to go undefeated and fedor flipped his ass over pretty easily.....your underestimating fedor's strength by a lot and nobody nullifies his striking just like that. Suppose kerr does his usual double leg takedown and fedor throws a huge knee to counter it and kerr gets knocked out. Fights over.

Not pickin your post apart bro but Kerr went to Syracuse(like myself)...

And Coleman and Randleman were buckeyes
01-08-2006, 08:45 AM
USfighterFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Div1Wrestler

Not pickin your post apart bro but Kerr went to Syracuse(like myself)...

And Coleman and Randleman were buckeyes

Shit i got kerr totally wrong but I know that randleman and coleman both went to ohio state and randleman still holds records there.