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  1. #1
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Apr 2005
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    accle development

    can you guys plz give me some feedback on this program.. we have gone through 2 phases for a total of 7 weeks.. phase 1 was 3 days of hill work/phase 2 was two sled days and 1 flat accle day.. i am following a short to long system and im going to focus on acceleration develop until indoor then indoor i switch my focus to max-v then outdoor focus on all three acc/max-v and speed endurance...


    Phase 3:

    WEEK 1:
    Mon: speed 200
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    4x20
    2x60 25-35 hard for 25 maintain for 35

    Tue: 2200
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 180
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    acc ladders 6x
    sleds 2x3x30

    Thur: 1600
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 200
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    4x20
    2x60 25-35

    WEEK 2: 240
    Mon: speed
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    4x30
    2x60 25-35

    Tue: 2200
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 240
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    acc ladder 6x
    sleds 2x4x30

    Thur: 1600
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 240
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    4x30
    2x60 25-35

    WEEK 3:
    Mon: speed 260
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    2x30
    2(40/60) 25-35

    Tue: 2000
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 300
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    acc ladder 6x
    sleds 2x5x30

    Thur: 2000
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 260
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg atl 3x30
    str bound 2x30
    SPEED WORK:
    2x40 builds
    2x30
    2(40/60) 25-35

    phase 4:

    WEEK 1:
    Mon: speed 330
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED WORK:
    4x30 chutes
    4x10/4x30 blk
    2xflys5/20

    Tue: 2200
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 330
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED
    4x30 chutes
    4x10/4x30 blk
    2xflys5/20

    Thur: 1600
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 420
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    4x30 chutes
    2(20-30-40) blk
    2x60 30-30

    WEEK 2:
    Mon: speed 340
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED WORK:
    4x30 chutes
    4(10-30) blk
    2xfly10-20

    Tue: 2200
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 340
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED WORK:
    4x30 chutes
    4(10-30) blk
    2xfly10-20

    Thur: 1600
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 480
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    4x30 chutes
    2(20-30-40) blk
    3x60 30-30

    WEEK 3:
    Mon: speed 345
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED WORK:
    4x30 chutes
    4x10-30) blk
    2xflyx15-20

    Tue: 2200
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    100-100-100
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-200-200
    100-200-100-100
    100-100-100

    Wed: 345
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    SPEED WORK:
    4x30 chutes
    4x10-30) blk
    2xflyx15-20

    Thur: 1600
    jog 800
    fall seagrave
    A's 3x60
    8x200 walk 200

    Fri: 540
    jog 800
    ankling 3x20
    askips 3x20
    b skips 3x20
    buttkicks 3x20
    carioca 2x20
    fast leg alt 3x30
    bound 2x30
    2x40 builds
    4x30 chutes
    2(20-30-40) blk
    4x60 30-30

  2. #2
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    i need some good feedback..

  3. #3
    Shaka's Avatar
    Shaka is offline Junior Member
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    You program looks good for a S-L in accl developement phase. Just a couple of observations.

    1) Your speed volume is on the low side to begin with... Although, by week 3, you get up to 540 TV on fridays which is great!

    2) Even with S-L, Special Endurance II (300-600) can be done in the accel development phase. All you have to do is accelerate to 30m then maintain. Building this SE early is beneficial -especially if you plan on running any 200m later on in the year.
    Last edited by Shaka; 11-15-2005 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #4
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    You program looks good for a S-L in accl developement phase. Just a couple of observations.

    1) Your speed volume is on the low side to begin with... Although, by week 3, you get up to 540 TV on fridays which is great!

    2) Even with S-L, Special Endurance II (300-600) can be done in the accel development phase. All you have to do is accelerate to 30m then maintain. Building this SE early is beneficial -especially if you plan on running any 200m later on in the year.

    thanks alot for ur help i just had some people on coach hatch site saying my program was butual just wanted to make sure my voulme wasnt too much.. i am more of a 60/100 guy i will do some 200's late outdoor..

    For me it makes very little sense to "lock in” speed endurance of lesser speed. start the outdoor phase with 3-6 weeks of speed endurance work, such as 10x60m, and 80-150m repeats. This way, once you start running, outdoors, you are running at a higher pace speed endurance, instead of trying to build TS and speed endurance at the same time

  5. #5
    Shaka's Avatar
    Shaka is offline Junior Member
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    Ok, that's fine!

    You are right about not building Speed Endurance and TS at the same time. Just don't mistake SPECIAL ENDURANCE II for Speed Endurance. The ability to accelerate to 30m and then maintain is all you need to "lock in” a World Class Special Endurance II. Plus, SE II does not hit your CNS as hard as Speed work or even Speed Endurance

    I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of improving where you can when you can... But, ALL Elite 100m sprinters can run a 300m in 32-33sec. According to Charlie, even Ben could run the 300m in 32sec before he focused most of his time to the alactic (aka left side) end of the curve. Plus, for developing sprinters more improvement can be made at the right side of the curve.

    Just something for you to think about... Good luck!

  6. #6
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Ok, that's fine!

    You are right about not building Speed Endurance and TS at the same time. Just don't mistake SPECIAL ENDURANCE II for Speed Endurance. The ability to accelerate to 30m and then maintain is all you need to "lock in” a World Class Special Endurance II. Plus, SE II does not hit your CNS as hard as Speed work or even Speed Endurance

    I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of improving where you can when you can... But, ALL Elite 100m sprinters can run a 300m in 32-33sec. According to Charlie, even Ben could run the 300m in 32sec before he focused most of his time to the alactic (aka left side) end of the curve. Plus, for developing sprinters more improvement can be made at the right side of the curve.

    Just something for you to think about... Good luck!

    thanks man i just learned something, so what would you do bc i always looking for new ideas just remember the 200m is not my thing i make my money in 60/100 i do the 200 mainly for fun and speed end work... below is a copy of my strength program its very intense, the reason why there is not much upper work is i am coming off of a partial torn tricep and i am doing lots pushups for now..
    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 4:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 3x60 x70 x80 x80 x75
    bsq 8x65 6x75 4x85 4x90
    fsq 5x70 4x80 3x85 3x90
    cp 3x5x85
    glut ham 4x10
    stiffdead 3x10
    sh complex 2x10

    Wed:
    ps 3x57.5 x62.5 x67.5 x72.5 x70
    lunges 3x5x37.5
    sp sq 3x5x37.5
    sp 3x5x80
    glut ham 4x10
    rdl 3x8x37.5
    calf raises 3x10

    Fri:
    pc 3x50 3x60 3x70 3x70 3x65
    bsq 6x65 x75 x80 x80
    fsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    glut ham 4x10
    gm 3x8x37.5
    neg leg curls 3x5
    pullups 3x10

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 5:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 3x65 x75 x85 x85 x80
    bsq 6x70 x80 3x90 2x95
    fsq 5x65 4x75 4x80 x80
    cp 3x4x90
    glut ham 4x12
    stiffdead 3x10
    sh complex 2x10
    jumps: boxes 35x

    Wed:
    ps 3x60 x65 x70 x75 x70
    lunges 3x5x39
    sp sq 3x5x39
    sp 3x5x85
    glut ham 4x12
    rdl 3x8x39
    calf raises 3x10
    sq jumps 3x10

    Fri:
    pc 3x55 3x65 3x75 3x75 3x70
    bsq 4x75 x80 x80 x80
    fsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    glut ham 4x12
    gm 3x8x39
    neg leg curls 2x4
    pullups 3x10
    jumps: boxes 35x

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 6:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 3x60 x70 x80 x90 x85
    bsq 5x70 5x80 2x85 3x90 1x100
    fsq 5x65 4x75 x80 x85
    cp 3x3x95
    glutham 4x12
    stiffdead 3x10
    sh complex 2x10
    jumps: boxes 40x

    Wed:
    ps 3x62.5 x67.5 x72.5 x77.5 x75
    lunges 3x5x41.5
    sp sq 3x5x41.5
    sp 3x4x90
    glut ham 4x12
    rdl 3x5x41.5
    calf raises 3x10
    sq jumps 3x10

    Fri:
    pc 3x45 x55 x65 x75 x65
    bsq 4x70 x75 x80 x85
    fsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    glut ham 4x12
    gm 3x5x41.5
    neg leg curls 3x4
    pullups 3x10
    jumps: boxes 40x

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 7:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 3x60 x70 x80 2x90 2x100
    bsq 5x65 x70 x75 x80
    fsq 5x60 x65 x65 x65
    cp 3x3x100
    glut ham 4x8
    stiffdead 3x10
    sh complex 2x10
    jumps: boxes 45x

    Wed:
    ps 3x60 x70 x75 2x80 2x85
    lunges 3x5x44
    sp sq 3x5x44
    sp 3x3x95
    glut ham 4x8
    rdl 3x5x44
    calf raises 3x12
    sq jumps 3x10

    Fri:
    pc 3x50 3x60 3x65 3x70 3x75
    bsq 2x5x65 3x5x70
    fsq 4x5x60
    glut ham 4x8
    gm 3x5x44
    neg leg curls 4x3
    pullups 3x10
    jumps: boxes 45x

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 8:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 5x50 x55 x60 x65
    bsq 5x60 3x70 2x80 2x90 1x95
    fsq 5x65 4x75 x80 x85
    cp 3x5x70
    glut ham 4x8
    stiffdead 3x8
    sh complex 2x10

    Wed:
    ps 5x50 x55 x60 x65
    lunges 3x5x46.5
    sp sq 3x5x46.5
    sp 3x5x70
    glut ham 4x8
    rdl 3x5x46.5
    calf raises 3x12

    Fri:
    pc 5x40 5x45 5x50 5x55
    bsq 5x65 3x5x75
    fsq 4x5x65
    glut ham 4x8
    gm 3x5x46.5
    neg leg curls 4x3
    pullups 3x10

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 9:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc 5x55 x60 x65 x70 x65
    bsq 5x60 x65 x70 x75
    fsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    cp 3x5x75
    glut ham 4x10
    stiffdead 3x8
    sh complex 2x10
    jumps: boxes 50x

    Wed:
    ps 5x52.5 x57.5 x62.5 x67.5 x65
    lunges 3x5x49
    sp sq 3x5x49
    sp 3x5x72.5
    glut ham 4x10
    rdl 3x5x49
    calf raises 3x12
    sq jumps 3x10

    Fri:
    pc 5x45 x50 x55 x60 x55
    bsq 5x60 x65 x70 x75
    fsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    glut ham 4x10
    gm 3x5x49
    pullups 3x10
    neg leg curls 2x5
    jumps: boxes 50x

    Sprint/Jump
    Comment: SQUAT DEEP DEEP:
    WEEK 10:
    DAY: Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6
    1rep max/exercise: RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT RPXWT

    Mon:
    pc
    bsq 5x60 3x70 2x80 x90 1x95 1x103
    fsq 5x60 x70 x75 x75
    cp 3x3x80
    glut ham 4x10
    stiffdead 3x8
    sh complex 2x10
    jumps: boxes 55x

    Wed:
    ps 5x55 5x60 x65 x70 x65
    lunges 3x5x51.5
    sp sq 3x5x51.5
    sp 3x5x75
    glut ham 4x10
    rdl 3x5x51.5
    calf raises 3x12
    sq jumps 3x10

    Fri:
    pc
    bsq 5x60 x65 x70 x70
    fsq 5x60 x70 x75 x80
    glut ham 4x10
    gm 3x5x51.5
    neg leg curls 3x5
    pullups 3x10
    jumps: boxes 55x

  7. #7
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    You program looks good for a S-L in accl developement phase. Just a couple of observations.

    1) Your speed volume is on the low side to begin with... Although, by week 3, you get up to 540 TV on fridays which is great!

    2) Even with S-L, Special Endurance II (300-600) can be done in the accel development phase. All you have to do is accelerate to 30m then maintain. Building this SE early is beneficial -especially if you plan on running any 200m later on in the year.

    so what if you have a pure power sprinter and hes not able to run good 300-400 would you still have him running those distance, i wouldnt bc i wouldnt want those sloppy foot contacts.. i remember in speed trap charlie said he cut those 300 out bc ben felt like they zip his strength levels he did more 200 but that was for his speed end 1 i think.... also what would be the benefits for me doing 300's at this time and where would i add them in at..

    All three of these forms of training are aimed at developing the anaerobic lactate or glycolytic system. By developing this energy system, athletes will be better able to run after the body has used all of its ATP stores. These three forms of training are distinguished from each other by their varying intensities and durations. Here is a brief explanation of these three forms of training:

    Speed Endurance runs are high intensity runs of 70-150m performed at 95-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Speed Endurance workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Speed Endurance workouts is to develop the capacity for maintaining maximal or near maximal velocity. Speed Endurance workouts are especially important for short sprinters. An example of a Speed Endurance workout would be 3 x (80m, 100m, 120m) with full recovery.

    Special Endurance 1 runs are high intensity runs of 150-300m performed at 90-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Special Endurance 1 workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Special Endurance 1 workouts are to develop the capacity for maintaining maximal or near maximal velocity. Special Endurance 1 is important for both short and long sprinters. An example of a Special Endurance 1 workout would be 4 x 160m with full recovery.

    Special Endurance 2 runs are high intensity runs of 300-600m performed at 90-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Special Endurance 2 workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Special Endurance 2 workouts are to develop the capacity for maintaining near maximal velocity. Special Endurance 2 is especially important for long sprinters. An example of a Special Endurance 2 workout would be 2 x 450m with full recovery.
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-18-2005 at 05:38 PM.

  8. #8
    Shaka's Avatar
    Shaka is offline Junior Member
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    Yes your strength work is extensive. As long as you can handle the volume of strength work, fine! Just remember weights are always secondary to track work, and if you find yourself in a plateau, your weight volume is the first thing you should look at changing....

    As for your question on what you should do:

    Well I don't have your PR's in the 60/100 so I don't know what level you are on... Plus, I don't know how well you tolerate high volumes of speed work...

    Having said that, I have found that once you have your first 30m in place it’s the prime time to start working on the longer SE II

    Speed/ SEII week.

    Mon:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    Tues:
    Tempo

    Wed:
    2 x 4 x 30m
    2 x 300m @95-100%

    Thur:
    Tempo

    Fri:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    This basic template gives u 400-600m total speed volume per session. The idea with the SE II here is that it gives you variety in training plus it develops lactic acid capacity WITHOUT affecting your speed work. The benefit from doing this early is that once you start doing Speed Endurance later on in the training season your capacity to handle any lactic work will greatly improve.

    However, what you don't want to do is START doing longer Special Endurance (300m+) later on in season. Because, In phase 2 your resources need to go towards developing Max V, which is the hardest phase. You don't want to start a training modality like SE II there. SE II needs to be developed by that time and then take a secondary to non-existent role to TS in Phase 2 and Speed Endurance in Phase 3.

  9. #9
    Big M's Avatar
    Big M is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah more speed and less jogging and low intesity stuff..

  10. #10
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    thanks man for the help if you can scroll up and read my last post i had to edit it some.. im going to post my indoor workouts nothing is set in stone bc it kinda changes workout to workout but here we go..


    WEEK 1:
    Mon: 330
    warmup 1:
    2x10 flys/20
    2x20 flys/20
    1x30 flys/20
    2x30 blks
    2x40 blks
    weights

    Tue: 1500
    warmup 2:
    15x100x65

    Wed: 260
    warmup 1:
    1x10 flys/20
    1x20 flys/20
    1x30 flys/20
    2x30 blk
    2x40 blk
    weights

    Thur: 1500
    warmup 2:
    15x100x65

    Fri: 240
    1x20 fly/20
    3x30 chutes
    2x40 blk
    weights

    Week 2:
    Mon: 300
    warmup 1:
    6X10 FLYS/20
    4X30 blks
    Weights

    Tue: 1600
    warmup 2:
    8x200x65

    Wed: 220
    warmup 1:
    2x10 flys/20
    2x30 blk
    2x50 chutes
    Weights

    Thur: 800
    warmup 2:
    2x4x100x65

    Fri: premeet
    warmup 3:
    3x30 blk

    Week 3:
    Mon: 360
    6x10 flys/25
    5x30
    weights

    Tue: 1600
    warmup 2:
    8x200x65

    Wed: 295
    warmup 1:
    3x10 flys/25
    3x30
    2x50 chutes
    Weights

    Thur: 800
    warmup 2:
    2x4x100x65

    Fri: premeet
    warmup 3:
    3x30 blk

    Week 4:
    Mon: 270
    warmup 1:
    3x30 blk contrast
    3x30 flys/30
    Weights

    Tue: 1500
    warmup 2:
    15x100x70

    Wed: 210
    warmup 1:
    3x20 blks constrast
    3x20 flys/30
    Weights

    Thur: 1200
    warmup 2:
    6x200x65

    Fri: premeet
    warmup 3:
    3x30 blk

    Week 5:
    Mon: 330
    3x30blk
    4x20-20-20
    Weights

    Tue: 1500
    warmup 2:
    15x100x70

    Wed: 330
    warmup 1:
    3x30 blk
    4x20-20-20
    weights

    Thur:
    warmup 2:
    REST

    Fri:
    warmup 3
    3x20 blk

    Week 6:
    Mon: 360
    warmup 1:
    4x30 blks
    4x20-20-20
    Weights

    Tue: 500
    warmup 2:
    10x50x80% 30-45/3min

    Wed: 360
    warmup 1:
    4x30 blks
    4x20-20-20
    Weights

    Thur: 250
    warmup 2:
    5x50x75 30-45/3min

    Fri:
    warmup 3:
    2x20 blk

    Week 7:
    Mon: 10day taper 270
    warmup 1:
    4x30
    1x10 fly-30
    1x20 fly-30
    2x30 fly-30
    weights

    Tue: 800
    warmup 2:
    4x200

    Wed: 180
    warmup 1:
    4x30/1x60
    weights

    Thur: 750
    warmup 2:
    5x150

    Fri: optional
    warmup 3:
    2x30 blk

    Week 8:
    Mon: 170
    warmup 1:
    4x30
    1x50
    Weights

    Tue: 800
    warmup 2:
    8x100

    Wed: 120
    warmup 1:
    4x30 blk
    Weights

    Thur:
    rest

    Fri/Sat: conference

  11. #11
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big M
    Yeah more speed and less jogging and low intesity stuff..

    what do u mean, i have 3 speed and 2 tempo?? i feel what u guys are saying i think im being weak bc i hate doing longer stuff i just cant seem to run it very fast...

    my pr's are:
    55m/6.29
    100/10.5

    not great times but i am also a football player that is 5'7 200
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-15-2005 at 12:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyefootball4
    so what if you have a pure power sprinter and hes not able to run good 300-400 would you still have him running those distance, i wouldnt bc i wouldnt want those sloppy foot contacts.. i remember in speed trap charlie said he cut those 300 out bc ben felt like the zip his levels he more with 200 but that was for his speed end 1 i think.... also what would be the benefits for me doing 300's at this time and where would i add them in at..

    All three of these forms of training are aimed at developing the anaerobic lactate or glycolytic system. By developing this energy system, athletes will be better able to run after the body has used all of its ATP stores. These three forms of training are distinguished from each other by their varying intensities and durations. Here is a brief explanation of these three forms of training:

    Speed Endurance runs are high intensity runs of 70-150m performed at 95-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Speed Endurance workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Speed Endurance workouts is to develop the capacity for maintaining maximal or near maximal velocity. Speed Endurance workouts are especially important for short sprinters. An example of a Speed Endurance workout would be 3 x (80m, 100m, 120m) with full recovery.

    Special Endurance 1 runs are high intensity runs of 150-300m performed at 90-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Special Endurance 1 workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Special Endurance 1 workouts are to develop the capacity for maintaining maximal or near maximal velocity. Special Endurance 1 is important for both short and long sprinters. An example of a Special Endurance 1 workout would be 4 x 160m with full recovery.

    Special Endurance 2 runs are high intensity runs of 300-600m performed at 90-100% of race pace. Typically, the volume for Special Endurance 2 workouts is in the range of 300-1200m of total running. The purpose Special Endurance 2 workouts are to develop the capacity for maintaining near maximal velocity. Special Endurance 2 is especially important for long sprinters. An example of a Special Endurance 2 workout would be 2 x 450m with full recovery.
    Yes, but don't forget by that time Ben was at his highest level and didn't have much left to gain from running 300's at that point. He was running 300 in 32 sec!!!

    The 200m work when done early in a short sprinter's program is considered Special Endurance... If you have CFTS look at page 43's " Sample Training Micro-cycle for Well Conditioned Runners Immediately Prior to Competition Period (winter)"

    A you know winter is to early to "lock in" speed endurance! However, for a 100m sprinter that would be special endurance work that time of year. For where to add them and the importance of them. Read my previous post.

    Don't forget even the 100m has a non-alactic (gly/lactic) phase towards the end of the run. Plus, you want to improve your capacity to handle multiple speed endurance (gly/lactic) work later on in phase 3.

    It's not just coincidence that ALL sub10 sprinters can run a blistering 300m if needed including Ben...

  13. #13
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Yes, but don't forget by that time Ben was at his highest level and didn't have much left to gain from running 300's at that point. He was running 300 in 32 sec!!!

    The 200m work when done early in a short sprinter's program is considered Special Endurance... If you have CFTS look at page 43's " Sample Training Micro-cycle for Well Conditioned Runners Immediately Prior to Competition Period (winter)"

    A you know winter is to early to "lock in" speed endurance! However, for a 100m sprinter that would be special endurance work that time of year. For where to add them and the importance of them. Read my previous post.

    Don't forget even the 100m has a non-alactic (gly/lactic) phase towards the end of the run. Plus, you want to improve your capacity to handle multiple speed endurance (gly/lactic) work later on in phase 3.

    It's not just coincidence that ALL sub10 sprinters can run a blistering 300m if needed including Ben...
    so if i follow this format during my indoor season i will have 1 true speed day..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyefootball4
    what do u mean, i have 3 speed and 2 tempo?? i feel what u guys are saying i think im being weak bc i hate doing longer stuff i just cant seem to run it very fast...

    my pr's are:
    55m/6.29
    100/10.5

    not great times but i am also a football player that is 5'7 200
    LOL! I don't know what that joker means, but that's not what I am saying at all... I don't think you are being weak!

    It's like this if all you ran was the 60m then you wouldn't have to worry about speed Endurance or Special Endurance. However the hundred has an endurance component and the drop off of speed at the end, if not properly developed, can be as high as 25%

    Good news! Based on your time your 55m match your 100m. So you are maintaining your speed well.

    Don't get it twisted I am not suggesting by any means that you change the priority of accl---> Max V---> Speed Endurance. My suggestion of SE II like I said before was to add training variety and improve your capacity to handle lactic acid (ph+) without affecting your speed work! To be a sub10 sprinter you have to be willing to have no weakness and do things you hate…

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyefootball4
    so if i follow this format during my indoor season i will have 1 true speed day..
    No, you would have 2 pure speed days M/F and 1 SE II day W! And, even on the SE II day you are working on accel to 30m ( at least for 2 to 4 reps) at 100% BEFORE SE!

  16. #16
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    LOL! I don't know what that joker means, but that's not what I am saying at all... I don't think you are being weak!

    It's like this if all you ran was the 60m then you wouldn't have to worry about speed Endurance or Special Endurance. However the hundred has an endurance component and the drop off of speed at the end, if not properly developed, can be as high as 25%

    Good news! Based on your time your 55m match your 100m. So you are maintaining your speed well.

    Don't get it twisted I am not suggesting by any means that you change the priority of accl---> Max V---> Speed Endurance. My suggestion of SE II like I said before was to add training variety and improve your capacity to handle lactic acid (ph+) without affecting your speed work! To be a sub10 sprinter you have to be willing to have no weakness and do things you hate…
    no i wasnt saying u r calling me weak, im calling myself bc i really hate those long sprints 300.. so r u saying to add speed end 2 now and drop it doing indoor season, bc i really want to have at least two intense speed days per week bc i race every sat.. also its very hard to get good speed endru workouts indoors..

    mon: speed
    tue: tempo
    wed: speed
    thur: tempo
    fri: premeet shake
    sat: race

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyefootball4
    no i wasnt saying u r calling me weak, im calling myself bc i really hate those long sprints 300.. so r u saying to add speed end 2 now and drop it doing indoor season, bc i really want to have at least two intense speed days per week bc i race every sat.. also its very hard to get good speed endru workouts indoors..

    mon: speed
    tue: tempo
    wed: speed
    thur: tempo
    fri: premeet shake
    sat: race
    Oh I see... And I understand! Don't forget you can do SE II in the form of SPLIT RUNS...ex, 2 x 4 x 60m or 150+150 or 200+100 until you can then do a 300m at the right intensity!

    Also, base on the above schedule, you have 3 speed days! You need to count your race day as speed day if running the 55/60 on race day!

  18. #18
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Oh I see... And I understand! Don't forget you can do SE II in the form of SPLIT RUNS...ex, 2 x 4 x 60m or 150+150 or 200+100 until you can then do a 300m at the right intensity!

    Also, base on the above schedule, you have 3 speed days! You need to count your race day as speed day if running the 55/60 on race day!

    i have question in cfts charlie stated during the indoor period his training is at 60m does that mean hes not going over that distance or what??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyefootball4
    i have question in cfts charlie stated during the indoor period his training is at 60m does that mean hes not going over that distance or what??

    He states the main training distance are up to 60m during the indoor period! Again, if you look at his sample training template during the winter period he has SE runs on Wed.

    Why do you think he would include SE runs of 200m in the winter in his sample training template if he didn't do anything above 60m during the indoor season?

  20. #20
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    He states the main training distance are up to 60m during the indoor period! Again, if you look at his sample training template during the winter period he has SE runs on Wed.

    Why do you think he would include SE runs of 200m in the winter in his sample training template if he didn't do anything above 60m during the indoor season?

    i cant say this enough thanks for your help on this topic bc im glad i am catching this now before i get deep into my season.. once a again i was planning on following a short to long approach ok.. my accleration development was going to be about 13 weeks that will take me right into jan the beginning of indoor my indoor season is 8 weeks doing that 8 weeks i wanted to continue to maintain accleration development but my main focus would be max-v lots of flying sprints and ins and outs.. after indoor i will have about 4 weeks of no comp i was going to do acc work on mon, wed speed endrance at about 120m then on fri work on top speed.. after that my outdoor season starts i would then focus on acc/max-v on mon mainly 60m and wed would be speed endurance runs at 200m..

  21. #21
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    Ok... great... Glad to be of help... And, have a good season bro!

  22. #22
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Ok... great... Glad to be of help... And, have a good season bro!

    ok man after taking notes from you i have made changes..

    7 weeks acc dev

    3 weeks acc dev + spilt runs

    3 weeks acc dev + speed endur 2 (300's)

    what kind of rest for the spilt runs..

    Indoor season:
    Mon: starts/max flying/inouts
    Tue tempo
    Wed starts/max flying/inouts
    Thur tempo
    Fri pree meet
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-15-2005 at 04:51 PM.

  23. #23
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    Looks good...

    You can actually keep the entire 6wks. as split runs if you are not quite ready for 300's by the end of the 3wks.

    Rest between split runs should be between 30 to 90sec. Remember no matter what split run you do, you want to run the 30m portion full speed then maintain.

    For ex. 2-3 x 4 x 60m with 30 accel. + 30 maintain with 30-90sec rest between reps and 10-30 min between sets.

    Hope that helps!

  24. #24
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Looks good...

    You can actually keep the entire 6wks. as split runs if you are not quite ready for 300's by the end of the 3wks.

    Rest between split runs should be between 30 to 90sec. Remember no matter what split run you do, you want to run the 30m portion full speed then maintain.

    For ex. 2-3 x 4 x 60m with 30 accel. + 30 maintain with 30-90sec rest between reps and 10-30 min between sets.

    Hope that helps!
    thanks man im heading to workout now 2000m tempo today, i may think of more questions later..

  25. #25
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    ok what if i decide i want to compete in the 55 and 200m would i have to change my training?? also on spilt runs it sounds like lots of people on charlie site are doing 4x4x60 what do u think about that, to the 100-150 spilt runs would be easier for just bc the way our practice/indoor track is set up..
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-15-2005 at 08:28 PM.

  26. #26
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    1) If you are competing in the 55/200 your program including the split runs/SE would complement each other nicely. 2) Yes, a lot of Charlie site runners are short sprinters and the 60m split runs gives them the SE work early, while complementing the S-L program. 3) I think the 100-150 SR would be great! Especially if you plan on running 200m indoor, because it gives you more variety and it takes you closer to the special endurance distance needed to develop a good 200m run. And a good 200m helps the 150m, and you know how the 150 helps the 100m! This way you are working both ends to the middle from 30up and from 300m down. So by the time you start working on 100m speed endurance after the indoor season, you'll be a beast!

    Reminder: Make sure you can maintain proper technique throughout the SR! If you form is breaking down adjust the SR type!
    Last edited by Shaka; 11-15-2005 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    1) If you are competing in the 55/200 your program including the split runs/SE would complement each other nicely. 2) Yes, a lot of Charlie site runners are short sprinters and the 60m split runs gives them the SE work early, while complementing the S-L program. 3) I think the 100-150 SR would be great! Especially if you plan on running 200m indoor, because it gives you more variety and it takes you closer to the special endurance distance needed to develop a good 200m run. And a good 200m helps the 150m, and you know how the 150 helps the 100m! This way you are working both ends to the middle from 30up and from 300m down. So by the time you start working on 100m speed endurance after the indoor season, you'll be a beast!

    Reminder: Make sure you can maintain proper technique throughout the SR! If you form is breaking down adjust the SR type!
    damn man i have learned alot about sprint training today this stuff is new to me i have always train for football.. i thought when someone follows a short to long system that they wouldnt touch 100,120,150,200,250,300 until they got into there outdoor phase and acc and top speed as been in place, but guess i misunderstood the system.. like you u said earlier thats why charlie them does those 4x4x60's "Yes, a lot of Charlie site runners are short sprinters and the 60m split runs gives them the SE work early, while complementing the S-L program"

    Here is something i seen on charlie site does this makes sense..

    Charlie, I've noticed that the lactic/special endurance work is phased out in your your short to long program, from the Vanc04 DVD, to focus mostly on speed. Why doesn't it carry forward, at least somewhat, until the end of the program? Is it because the effects of the lactic training remain for a number of weeks after the training has ended?

    I guess I'm asking why is lactic work needed if it is going to be phased out eventually?

    Because if you want to run fast times at the indoors you want to switch your focus towards speed as you approach competition. If you leave the speed endurance in you will either overtrain or you have to cut back on speed work (which you don't want to do).

    Basically, if you increase one method of training you must decrease others to compensate (see CFTS periodisation section).

    As for why do you bother to do SE in the first place..... everything must build on something else. Unless you have the ability to accelerate to 30m don't bother to try and run fast times over 100m - to do that you must be able to accelerate as far as possible to hit a higher top speed. So you need the lactic work (from the higher number of short runs) to prepare your body for the metabolic demands of running a full 60m. Once this is in place you can then focus on speed because there is no limiting factor.

  28. #28
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Yes your strength work is extensive. As long as you can handle the volume of strength work, fine! Just remember weights are always secondary to track work, and if you find yourself in a plateau, your weight volume is the first thing you should look at changing....

    As for your question on what you should do:

    Well I don't have your PR's in the 60/100 so I don't know what level you are on... Plus, I don't know how well you tolerate high volumes of speed work...

    Having said that, I have found that once you have your first 30m in place it’s the prime time to start working on the longer SE II

    Speed/ SEII week.

    Mon:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    Tues:
    Tempo

    Wed:
    2 x 4 x 30m
    2 x 300m @95-100%

    Thur:
    Tempo

    Fri:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    This basic template gives u 400-600m total speed volume per session. The idea with the SE II here is that it gives you variety in training plus it develops lactic acid capacity WITHOUT affecting your speed work. The benefit from doing this early is that once you start doing Speed Endurance later on in the training season your capacity to handle any lactic work will greatly improve.

    However, what you don't want to do is START doing longer Special Endurance (300m+) later on in season. Because, In phase 2 your resources need to go towards developing Max V, which is the hardest phase. You don't want to start a training modality like SE II there. SE II needs to be developed by that time and then take a secondary to non-existent role to TS in Phase 2 and Speed Endurance in Phase 3.

    now here you say once i get to phase 2 my focus should be ts, but in a later post u mention that charlie did longer distance then 60m indoor, so my quesition once i am done with spilt run and special 2 in dec im i done with that until outdoor r do i keep doing it threw indoor.. from what i can tell i would be done with until outdoors..

  29. #29
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    think something to keep in mind is the difference in athletes. As Charlie stated, Desai had a lower speed work tolerance than Ben so he benefited from more Special Endurance runs. So yes, the SE (and/or SR) can be done throughout the indoor especially if you plan on running the 200m indoor or too much speed work wears you out. Having said that, if you plan on only the 55/60 indoor and you can tolerate lots of speed work well, then I would follow the template Charlie provided in Vanc ‘04 DVD by dropping the SE/SR and focusing on speed as you approach indoor competition.

  30. #30
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    think something to keep in mind is the difference in athletes. As Charlie stated, Desai had a lower speed work tolerance than Ben so he benefited from more Special Endurance runs. So yes, the SE (and/or SR) can be done throughout the indoor especially if you plan on running the 200m indoor or too much speed work wears you out. Having said that, if you plan on only the 55/60 indoor and you can tolerate lots of speed work well, then I would follow the template Charlie provided in Vanc ‘04 DVD by dropping the SE/SR and focusing on speed as you approach indoor competition.

    yeh thats me i can take large vol of speed it may sound weird but the longer runs wear me out more..

    i think i am going to give ur way a try and do 3 weeks of spilt run then 3 weeks of speed end 2, then indoor go back to my 2 speed and 2 tempo days bc like i said i do my best in the 60 and thats where i have a chance to win the 200m im not even in the top 8 so why focus some much energy on it.
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-16-2005 at 02:15 AM.

  31. #31
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    Thumbs up

    Sounds good man! Good luck, and look forward to reading about your progress!

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    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Sounds good man! Good luck, and look forward to reading about your progress!

    hey if you look at my inseason indoor program you will see that my tempo is diff in volume im reading charlie 2002 forum review and it says tempo vol should stay the same until the end of comp, my question should i bump my vol up to 1800-2000 during the season?

  33. #33
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    Now if you also read the section on "Recovery and Regeneration" Charlie states "It is a matter of individual adaptation how much tempo work to give the athlete."

    Having said that, if you can handle it and want to keep your training as close to Charlie's template, I don't see a problem with it. Just remember the MAIN purpose of tempo work in a sprinters program is for recovery & regeneration! Always keep that in mind and plan accordingly... Peace!

  34. #34
    buckeyefootball4 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Now if you also read the section on "Recovery and Regeneration" Charlie states "It is a matter of individual adaptation how much tempo work to give the athlete."

    Having said that, if you can handle it and want to keep your training as close to Charlie's template, I don't see a problem with it. Just remember the MAIN purpose of tempo work in a sprinters program is for recovery & regeneration! Always keep that in mind and plan accordingly... Peace!

    thanks, as you know my focus doing indoor will be top speed if you look at my indoor program you will see lots of flying sprints and starts do u think i should change some of those to 60m are keep them as i have them..

  35. #35
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    Good question...

    In this case, you are going to have to make a personal decision on whether to use flying sprints or 60m to deveop top speed, which will depend on you ability to handle intense speed work. As the latter (60m) is more CNS intensive than the former -flying sprints!

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    hey on those SR how do u want me to progress on those over that 3 week span, also if i did 150 spilt do you just do them once are do you work through at many times i would assume twice?? what do u think about the chutes are should i just keep the sled work, i had good success with the chutes thats why they are in my program??
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-17-2005 at 01:04 PM.

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    Which SR you choose will depend on what you can tolerate and maintain technique, while getting as close to your SE II goal of 300m. Whatever you choose, you want to do 2 sets with at least 10min rec. and up to 30min rec. between sets. For ex. 2x150+150m!

    I personal find that chutes tend to be an inconsistent resistance method because of changing wind angles and speed. However, if they are working good for you, keep them!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Which SR you choose will depend on what you can tolerate and maintain technique, while getting as close to your SE II goal of 300m. Whatever you choose, you want to do 2 sets with at least 10min rec. and up to 30min rec. between sets. For ex. 2x150+150m!

    I personal find that chutes tend to be an inconsistent resistance method because of changing wind angles and speed. However, if they are working good for you, keep them!

    wow 10min between reps, why are charlie them doing 90-2min on those 60's, also what kind of activities do u perform between sets and reps like tempo run/jog/walk???

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    NO! I said "at least 10min" between SETS! Re-read my previous post! And, its more like 30-90sec between REPS! Between REPS you shouldn't have too much time to do much but walk back to the line.
    Last edited by Shaka; 11-18-2005 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka
    Yes your strength work is extensive. As long as you can handle the volume of strength work, fine! Just remember weights are always secondary to track work, and if you find yourself in a plateau, your weight volume is the first thing you should look at changing....

    As for your question on what you should do:

    Well I don't have your PR's in the 60/100 so I don't know what level you are on... Plus, I don't know how well you tolerate high volumes of speed work...

    Having said that, I have found that once you have your first 30m in place it’s the prime time to start working on the longer SE II

    Speed/ SEII week.

    Mon:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    Tues:
    Tempo

    Wed:
    2 x 4 x 30m
    2 x 300m @95-100%

    Thur:
    Tempo

    Fri:
    2x4x 30m
    3-6 x 60m

    This basic template gives u 400-600m total speed volume per session. The idea with the SE II here is that it gives you variety in training plus it develops lactic acid capacity WITHOUT affecting your speed work. The benefit from doing this early is that once you start doing Speed Endurance later on in the training season your capacity to handle any lactic work will greatly improve.

    However, what you don't want to do is START doing longer Special Endurance (300m+) later on in season. Because, In phase 2 your resources need to go towards developing Max V, which is the hardest phase. You don't want to start a training modality like SE II there. SE II needs to be developed by that time and then take a secondary to non-existent role to TS in Phase 2 and Speed Endurance in Phase 3.

    now in my exercise science class our professor always talk bout the law of disuse if u dont use it you leave lose it, since are only doing the speed endur 1-2 now will we lose it when we really need it outdoor.

    " The benefit from doing this early is that once you start doing Speed Endurance later on in the training season your capacity to handle any lactic work will greatly improve."
    Last edited by buckeyefootball4; 11-18-2005 at 06:11 PM.

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