Successful Competing

[Metalject]

what are your thoughts on bostin lloyd?...

is he an idiot? or does he speak the truth?
or
does he speak the truth but needs to keep his mouth shut?

also.. what are your thoughts on pepitides igf-1 lr3, ghrp-6, cjc-1295 & others like these? have you had any good/bad experiences with them? could they be considered a cheaper source of hgh? or just a waste of money?

Like I said before, I've heard his name around but I've never met the guy or watched any of his videos. So I looked one up and watched this one:
Steroids In Bodybuilding - Featuring Bostin Loyd - YouTube

From that video, I guess his main points agree/disagree:

1. Steroids will only get you so far, HGH and peptides are needed: That's relative to how far you want to take it, but to be a truly big and competitive guy in the sport, yes I agree. I agree primarily with the HGH. IGF-1 can help but not always needed. Insulin , I've known a lot of guys, huge and successful competitors that have no need for insulin and just as many who do.

2. Message Boards are bad: Overall they can often be the worst place for a new guy to start and base all his info on. Nothing wrong with sharing experiences. But what often happens is each message board develops its own philosophy. What's considered perfect methods on one board is considered stupid on another. Guys get comfortable on a certain board and simply start parroting each other and that creates that message boards philosophy.

Back when I was around 22-23 when message boards first started really becoming popular, I saw the same kind of thing. I remember posting a proposed cycle/stack on three separate boards and the responses on each could not have been any more diverse. But a lot of guys will have someone with 8billion post respond to them and presto, that's the advice they stick with whether it's the best true advice or not. Somehow post count and bodybuilding genius has been magically linked together over the years.

One thing that's often overlooked, while steroids work in the body the same regardless of why you're using them, general recreational steroid advise and competitor advice isn't the same but it's often treated that way. A lot of guys on boards are in some ways just as bad as supplement companies when it comes to this.

3. Less side effects from actual steroids compared to pro-hormones: Absolutely agree

4. Building muscle with lower volume and not pump training with high sets is far superior: Couldn't agree with this one more. There are guys that can get away with high volume training but most will do better with low-moderate volume. It's hard for most to understand but a pump doesn't mean anything. A pump isn't a sign that you're growing. 30-45min training session is perfect, so again I agree.

5. Simple off-season cycle: Again, I agree. There's no reason for several steroids in the off-season. Test and Deca is pretty much all anyone needs. At some point, when more items are needed, HGH, IGF-1, etc. is the way to go. Adding oral steroids like Dbol and Anadrol , they can be fun to use but you're not accomplishing anything, not really. The only times I've had what I'd call real off-season success with something like Dbol is when I would hit a wall in my training. For example, say I'd been going hard and heavy for 8-9wks with my training and gear and hit a wall, a little Dbol can break through that and once it's done in a few weeks you continue on.

I'm not saying this is always the best approach. He said he had a hard time eating when he took orals, I've never had that issue.

6. Insulin: Humilin R good choice

7. Contest cycle: I don't wouldn't say Anavar and Winstrol both are needed but it's not uncommon. Primo, I prefer more Tren . Upping T3 and using HGH to lean out, agree.

8. Drugs more important than nutrition and the best coaches know that: That is 100% true.

9. Coming off and you're keeping your hormones "out of whack": For a serious competitor, that's hard to disagree with. If you're going to be a bodybuilder, not just a mild novice with it and really get into competing, you're not coming off testosterone . You might for a few weeks around the holidays or something but that's it. Yeah, I agree. I've known plenty of guys who are on most of the year and then they come off everything and run a PCT. For the sake of argument, let's say they have recovered decent natural testosterone production, but what's the point? As soon as they do they're crashing it again. No way that's good for you. A better path to follow is to use low doses of HCG year round with your gear. If you hit an off-period, "Off" in bodybuilding means just a little test, continue HCG. In terms of health, that's the best option.

Alright, there you go. That's my take from that video. But other than that, I have watched anything else and I don't know what he thinks about things in more specifics but from that video he doesn't seem like an idiot. In my opinion, Palumbo is one of the sharpest minds out there when it comes to bodybuilding, which is where he's pulling his info from and how he's learned. That's not a bad thing.

[emayarsh]

thank you for taking the time to write that reply.. much respect..

[David PvP]

Happy new year Metal,also if you have the time i would be very interested if you explain mre in detail about point 4.
God bless

[Metalject]

Happy new year Metal,also if you have the time i would be very interested if you explain mre in detail about point 4.
God bless

Point 4 in the last post, high volume pump training vs. lower volume - to start, a pump is simply the muscle filling up with blood. That doesn't mean it's growing. I've heard people say a pump makes you grow because that means the muscle is stretching out like a balloon but muscles aren't these solid ballon like things. A pump can be a good feeling but that's all it is, a good feeling.

The entire point of weight training is to stimulate the muscle and force it to want to grow. You force it by breaking it down and then the body builds it back up during rest. That's why you always hear rest is important because that's when you actually grow. When you're pounding away with a very high number of sets, more often than not you're annihilating your muscle tissue making recovery harder and eventually just wearing your whole body down. This doesn't mean you can't have some more intense workouts with more sets sometimes but overall most training sessions should be about getting solid stimulation and hard contractions of the muscle tissue you're working. From there, do all you can to help it recover, good food, good rest and good hormones.

[David PvP]

A wise man you are
i've been a prisoner of the whole volume thing for the last months and for some reason i coudlnt understand why afther a deadly triceps training i did only 5 sets of "DUMBELL" curls(not even barbell),and felt as the best bicep training in my entire life,ofc triceps wasnt even sore

[Metalject]

A wise man you are
i've been a prisoner of the whole volume thing for the last months and for some reason i coudlnt understand why afther a deadly triceps training i did only 5 sets of "DUMBELL" curls(not even barbell),and felt as the best bicep training in my entire life,ofc triceps wasnt even sore

Just so you know, soreness isn't an indicator of growth and great training either.
And no, I'm not joking or being a smart ass.
The only good indicator of good training is growth, that's it. If you're trying to grow and you're not growing then something is wrong somewhere. You may be sore all the time, your workouts may be pumptastic and you may even be a little harder, but none of those things are growth.

[David PvP]

Sadly i believe you are right neighter pump nor soreness is a good indicator,but there has to be a point where the sweet spot resides,i know it,and i think it's in the 8-14 reps,i am so close to find it,i've been tryng latetly to play with different styles of training,i even went with something marcus sugested drop sets,but besides a pump nothing happened,i found my best rezults with 10 - 12 working sets,8-14 reps,intense and brief.What do you think more experienced one?

[Metalject]

I trained high volume for years with limited success. It worked great at first but anything works great when you first start out. After awhile I started playing with DC training and had some good progress. Nothing ever brought my strength out like DC. When I did that I would follow DC for 8wks, then back to high volume for 8wks and so on. After a time things just continued to evolve. DC made me stronger but I didn't get the growth I wanted, not fully. High volume, I always looked a little better but I then realized that was only because I was losing more body fat because calories were being burned at a higher rate due to much longer training sessions. I wasn't actually growing more muscle, it was an illusion. So then I realized, 1+1=2, meaning I realized something simple. High volume is a waste of time, too low of volume is a waste of time so the truth must lie somewhere in the middle. From there my training looked like this for quite awhile:

Chest: 3 exercises, 3 working sets each, 8-12 rep sets
Back: 4 exercises, 3 working sets each, 8-12 rep sets
Shoulders: 3-4 exercises, 3 working sets each, 8-12 rep sets
Quads: 3-4 exercises, 3 working sets each, 10-15 rep sets
Hamstrings: 3 exercises, 3 working sets each, 10-15 rep sets
Biceps: 2-3 exercises, 2-3 working sets each, 10-15 rep sets
Triceps: 2-3 exercises, 2-3 working sets each, 10-15 rep sets

Sometimes on chest and shoulder day I'd do a few extra sets on some type of press machine if I still had a lot of energy left, around 15 reps for 2-3 sets but a lot of times I didn't.

Hamstrings: I preferred to train these on their own day, quads one day and then hams 3-4 days later.

Bi's & Tri's always on their own day.

Calves: Sometimes before one of the leg day or whenever I wanted to throw them in. If on a leg day I always did calves first, otherwise if you do them at the end it's easy to get lazy and not focus on the contraction because you're tired.

The above is just an example. This isn't always what I did but an example of what was more common than not. Sure, sometimes I'd add drop sets or super sets. Super sets were rare though. And sometimes I'd try a little heavier weight on something for a lower rep set, but never less than 5-6 reps unless I gauged my strength wrong. Some days you think you might be stronger than you are, it happens.

But one key point, you notice where I said working sets, that doesn't mean I didn't have warmup sets. Say my first exercise is squats or some type of press. I might do one warm up set and then right into working sets or I might do 2-3 warmup sets. It just depended on how I felt and how easy it was to get lose. But once through the first exercise, there's no need to do a bunch of warmup sets on the rest of your exercises. Why would you? You're already warmed up and a bunch of pointless sets is just a waste of energy. Now when you go to your second exercise, it's acceptable to do one really light set for a few reps to get a feel for it but that's all you should need. In my opinion, the only time that's needed is if moving from one type of press on your first exercise to another on the second exercise.

Anyway, contractions are the most important part of everything. Moving the weight with the actual muscle you're trying to train. And these sessions should never take more than 30-45min if you're training by yourself, maybe 45-60min if you're training with a partner.

[APM]

Metal,

First, I gotta say thank you for putting in the time to put up such valuable EXPERIENCED advice along with all the detailed knowledge. Your posts are always great to read and learn from...

Question on the topic at hand... With what you posted above on your training, how much rest time did you usually take in between sets. Considering your workouts lasted no longer than 30-45min I can only guess rest time was minimal and/or kinda like what's employed in DC training?? Your training style seems as if its a Dorian Yates style of workout, with super high intensity?

Also... In your experience with DC training, did you feel that you were more prone to injury being that DC is mainly about moving lots of weight and sacrificing some form to do so?? I've been thinking about giving this style a try. I think I'm at that point now where I'm starting to hit a really wide plateau that I just can't move on from...

[David PvP]

Yeah we all love you here Metal thank you for posting and sharing with us priceless information.

Youre answer seems to be the best ever,and i always knew it was suposed to be somewhere in the midle,not low not high simply balanced,but i guess in my mind i always tough there has to be a hidden way and i guess thats how we all tough specially when we started aka "you need to train heavy",no no no,"you need to train intense",no no no,"it's in the volume",we all wanted that "Perfect" training program,now it has come to that they are all good but at different times,and better yet a bit combined,we are on to the Holly Grail of training programs,even tough i am sorry for being a bit off topic,but hey anything for evolution.

God bless,Dave

[Metalject]

Metal,

First, I gotta say thank you for putting in the time to put up such valuable EXPERIENCED advice along with all the detailed knowledge. Your posts are always great to read and learn from...

Question on the topic at hand... With what you posted above on your training, how much rest time did you usually take in between sets. Considering your workouts lasted no longer than 30-45min I can only guess rest time was minimal and/or kinda like what's employed in DC training?? Your training style seems as if its a Dorian Yates style of workout, with super high intensity?

Also... In your experience with DC training, did you feel that you were more prone to injury being that DC is mainly about moving lots of weight and sacrificing some form to do so?? I've been thinking about giving this style a try. I think I'm at that point now where I'm starting to hit a really wide plateau that I just can't move on from...

Rest between sets, honestly I've never counted out the time or anything. Just rest and when I'm ready to go again I go. Sure, sometimes you rest more than other times but if I had to guess I'd say a minute to 90 seconds most of the time but I really don't know for sure. All I can say for sure is the plan I laid out above shouldn't ever take more than 30-45min.

DC, no I wasn't more injury prone. I never had an injury when following DC style training but I've had plenty when I was lifting regularly. I think that's been more of a coincidence than anything else though. And I never let my form get sloppy on DC. If you're not contracting the muscle you're trying to work the training is no good regardless of how you're training.

[Metalject]

Yeah we all love you here Metal thank you for posting and sharing with us priceless information.

Youre answer seems to be the best ever,and i always knew it was suposed to be somewhere in the midle,not low not high simply balanced,but i guess in my mind i always tough there has to be a hidden way and i guess thats how we all tough specially when we started aka "you need to train heavy",no no no,"you need to train intense",no no no,"it's in the volume",we all wanted that "Perfect" training program,now it has come to that they are all good but at different times,and better yet a bit combined,we are on to the Holly Grail of training programs,even tough i am sorry for being a bit off topic,but hey anything for evolution.

God bless,Dave

The holy grail in terms of growth is pretty simple, just a few simple steps:
(In no particular order)

1. Consistant training, always contracting never just lifting just to see weight move.

2. Enough food to support your growth without getting too fat.

3. Not beating and wearing your body down so bad that you can't move and are doing more damage to your tendons and ligaments than anything else.

4. Lots of gear.

That's the holy grail of bodybuilding, at least in terms of growing.

[David PvP]

Ok Metal i am not going to lie,i am verry happy for being here talking with you and getting advice from da best,you know i just became more anabolic ,you are like tren ,we thank you for the time you put in here to help us and to give advice,just wanted to say that

[Metalject]

If I'm like Tren then that's a good thing since Tren is so stinkin awesome, lol! But in all seriousness, I do not consider myself anything special whatsoever. I'm just sharing my thoughts, opinions and what I've learned over the years. I've been fortunate or unfortunate depending on how you look at it to have run in some circles most don't get to or shouldn't and I guess that makes my thoughts somewhat unique. Anyway, thank you for the compliment.

[David PvP]

Yeah but there is a point in ones life when he realizes the fact that things are not like they appear,you remember when we where young and tought that hard training and good food are what it takes,then those articles on bb.com about the best supplements and training programs,i swear there was a point when i tought that determination hard work and a good protein shake is the Holly Grail,then i heard something like milk is good,then no no no milk is bad it has sugar in it,afther 13 years of training when no new muscle was posible through training and diet i started doing the real research,and here it is,the honest answer,the real way,this is the place where those 1% of the world population can become better,improve and be real about it,you have to admit that most people have no ideea how to even adjust they're diet to improve,lose fat or keep growing,i learned that you could make drastic change even with most simple things like eating wise training wise,and being patient;this last one is where most people fail,and even tough i dont want to admit it i am also one of them,i remember back in octomber i wanted to do a simple bulk,test and some deca ,ended up with sust and eq as a sugestion of my dealer,now i all of a sudden wanna jump on prop + ace,and when i was shy of using clen and var + T3,now i even took in consideration of future heavy cycles and dnp ,something i should'n even think about at least not in the next couple of years,but i guess in the end is important to know what you want,and how far you want to go,since i am not ready to go competing anytime soon and most definately not a world class competitor,my approach of the situation might not be the best,i guess i am experimenting a real change in my life since i was on like a eternal bulk for my enitre life now all i want is to drop bf like crazy get shredded,and then clean bulk my way to new real muscle,not the ones i tought i had at 260 lbs i was one weird fattie but in my mind i tought i am a very muscular figure only untill i shredded those percentages down to find out i was not musclular at all and my insertions where not as good as i tought,i am happy at least that i learned alot and for the first time in my life i am actually building pure muscle not just adding body fat like theres no tommorow....a bit long but i guess i was thinking out loud....

[APM]

The holy grail in terms of growth is pretty simple, just a few simple steps:
(In no particular order)

1. Consistant training, always contracting never just lifting just to see weight move.

2. Enough food to support your growth without getting too fat.

3. Not beating and wearing your body down so bad that you can't move and are doing more damage to your tendons and ligaments than anything else.

4. Lots of gear.

That's the holy grail of bodybuilding, at least in terms of growing.

I agree with David. We're very fortunate to have you share your experiences and knowledge with us. I know from this thread alone, it's made me re-evaluate some of my own personal practices when it comes to gear and training, so again thank you and keep the info flowing, haha...

If you don't mind, can you touch more on point number 4 from your previous post. It seems clear now that when it comes to this sport it really does boil down to the gear we use. So with that being said, how much is really needed, how much is too much? I know we are all individuals and will all respond in the same but different ways, but from your own trial and error, from the pros that you know and the competitors you work with, what are the doses needed to attain ones maximum potential to grow?

Say that you have your diet spot on in regards to growth, you've found a good source with accurate dosed gear (weather it be ugl or pharma grade) that's reflected in blood work to verify... You have pharma grade HgH (or equivalent ugl in terms of effects), and you're using insulin (properly, as far as timing)... What is a weekly dose that's needed to fully grow?

I know a few pros as well, and from what I was told, 3 grams per week of test alone is the norm (this also is reflected in your thread "a day in the the life") But then, I have a few bodybuilder friends (who have been in the game for over 20 years) say that a anything over 800mg/week is a waste...

Again, I understand its very individual, but from what you've seen and/or tried yourself, what's the norm, what's the best all around dose of gear when it comes to AAS?

[Cuz]

not speaking for metal, but I can tell tou they use over 800mg a week, some reports I have aeen up to 10000mg a week total aas use which is nuts.

[Metalject]

I agree with David. We're very fortunate to have you share your experiences and knowledge with us. I know from this thread alone, it's made me re-evaluate some of my own personal practices when it comes to gear and training, so again thank you and keep the info flowing, haha...

If you don't mind, can you touch more on point number 4 from your previous post. It seems clear now that when it comes to this sport it really does boil down to the gear we use. So with that being said, how much is really needed, how much is too much? I know we are all individuals and will all respond in the same but different ways, but from your own trial and error, from the pros that you know and the competitors you work with, what are the doses needed to attain ones maximum potential to grow?

Say that you have your diet spot on in regards to growth, you've found a good source with accurate dosed gear (weather it be ugl or pharma grade) that's reflected in blood work to verify... You have pharma grade HgH (or equivalent ugl in terms of effects), and you're using insulin (properly, as far as timing)... What is a weekly dose that's needed to fully grow?

I know a few pros as well, and from what I was told, 3 grams per week of test alone is the norm (this also is reflected in your thread "a day in the the life") But then, I have a few bodybuilder friends (who have been in the game for over 20 years) say that a anything over 800mg/week is a waste...

Again, I understand its very individual, but from what you've seen and/or tried yourself, what's the norm, what's the best all around dose of gear when it comes to AAS?

What's a lot of gear? I don't know if there's a real cut and dry answer to the question as in there is something everyone does but I guess you could say there are common themes.

*3,000mg of test per week is fairly common with the big guys with 1,500-2,000mg/wk being maintenance. I do know of one guy that, old training partner and long time friend who never takes more than 1,500mg of test per week and sits at a fairly lean 290lbs 5'11" during his off-season. But like most, he uses a lot of HGH, 10-15iu per day year round, uses fair amounts of Deca 600-800mg/wk and then has insane contest cycles like everyone does.

*I know a 212 pro who never takes more than 900mg of test per week. I'm not sure how he came to like 900, odd number to settle on IMO. But he makes up for it with piles of everything else.

*Anyway, more common, 15-30iu of HGH per day, most of it, the bulk of it and the higher end comes in during contest prep time, not off-season like many tend to think.

*Nandrolone : 800-1000mg/wk is common
*Tren : 800-1000mg/wk is common and I've known plenty to get into the 15000mg/wk range.
*Testosterone Suspension : Fairly common, 100mg/ed pre workout.
*Insulin: I'm not sure I have a good answer for you on this one or anything I'd consider common. I've seen everything from small amounts to amounts that made no sense and everything in-between. The 290lb guy I mentioned above, never used insulin, not a drop. Another good friend, he's had issues breaking the 250lb mark, is 6' and has used a ton of insulin. I just don't have a good answer for this one.
T3: 200mcg/ed during contest prep is very common. I've seen 300mcg a few times.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're specifically looking for. There's common themes and the common theme is a lot of gear but again there's not a set in stone outline.

[mockery]

Good to see this thread hasnt been locked and removed.

what you said up above earlier about message board set views is so true.

i always say that online advice and real world bodybuilding advice are night and different.

Thanks again for all the points you have touched.

[Back In Black]

Good to see this thread hasnt been locked and removed

I'm not sure why you think it might be. It was made a sticky because of its candour.

[APM]

What's a lot of gear? I don't know if there's a real cut and dry answer to the question as in there is something everyone does but I guess you could say there are common themes.

*3,000mg of test per week is fairly common with the big guys with 1,500-2,000mg/wk being maintenance. I do know of one guy that, old training partner and long time friend who never takes more than 1,500mg of test per week and sits at a fairly lean 290lbs 5'11" during his off-season. But like most, he uses a lot of HGH, 10-15iu per day year round, uses fair amounts of Deca 600-800mg/wk and then has insane contest cycles like everyone does.

*I know a 212 pro who never takes more than 900mg of test per week. I'm not sure how he came to like 900, odd number to settle on IMO. But he makes up for it with piles of everything else.

*Anyway, more common, 15-30iu of HGH per day, most of it, the bulk of it and the higher end comes in during contest prep time, not off-season like many tend to think.

*Nandrolone : 800-1000mg/wk is common
*Tren : 800-1000mg/wk is common and I've known plenty to get into the 15000mg/wk range.
*Testosterone Suspension : Fairly common, 100mg/ed pre workout.
*Insulin : I'm not sure I have a good answer for you on this one or anything I'd consider common. I've seen everything from small amounts to amounts that made no sense and everything in-between. The 290lb guy I mentioned above, never used insulin, not a drop. Another good friend, he's had issues breaking the 250lb mark, is 6' and has used a ton of insulin. I just don't have a good answer for this one.
T3: 200mcg/ed during contest prep is very common. I've seen 300mcg a few times.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're specifically looking for. There's common themes and the common theme is a lot of gear but again there's not a set in stone outline.

This response is perfect. "Common themes" is a great way to put it, this is kinda what I meant. I myself just recently decided to give " a lot of gear" a try. I'm taking the most I've ever taken at this point and its over 1000mg a week. It's taken me almost 10 years to get to this point and now finally after a few years of being a competitor it's all starting to click and make sense.

[David PvP]

By far the best thread ever made,i am sure many people on this planet will be on a good track if they get here.
Did anyone ever noticed that in terms of food our biggest expense is chicken breasts?just made some calculations this week and it's by far my biggest;
Also if you have the time Metal can you hint us a basic exercise selection you would apply for training? I ask because i noticed not all exercisez grant me the best stimulation,for example bench press doesnt seem to hit me nowhere near dumbell press,cgbp not geting the stimulation of simple skulls,military not as good as dumbell press,etc

And a small one for last what is youre opinion on concentration curlls elbows resting on a leg vs hanging concentration curls ,i saw Austie recomended them(cough,Marcus put him to,cough).

[Cuz]

tbh, the meals are cheaper than people think. 24 oz ususlly cost me ,5.,98$ x.7 is only ,42$ a week. 2 packs of rice and 2 cans of oats is 6-8 bucks.and then a 4lb bag of fish ia 15-20. it only cost me 100 bucks a week to eat. oh and 5dozen eggs is bout 8bucks.

for me its a combination of everything, gear, food, protein supps but its not that bad if you take out all the other stuff other people spend their money on.

[Metalject]

By far the best thread ever made,i am sure many people on this planet will be on a good track if they get here.
Did anyone ever noticed that in terms of food our biggest expense is chicken breasts?just made some calculations this week and it's by far my biggest;
Also if you have the time Metal can you hint us a basic exercise selection you would apply for training? I ask because i noticed not all exercisez grant me the best stimulation,for example bench press doesnt seem to hit me nowhere near dumbell press,cgbp not geting the stimulation of simple skulls,military not as good as dumbell press,etc

And a small one for last what is youre opinion on concentration curlls elbows resting on a leg vs hanging concentration curls ,i saw Austie recomended them(cough,Marcus put her to,cough).

Flat bench I hate. I stopped doing it altogether the last few years of heavy and hard training. It tore my shoulders up more than anything else. Now I would and still do some light benching every now and then at the end of a chest day just to do some reps but that's it.

I've never had a set routine that I follow every time and nothing out of the ordinary really with maybe a couple of exceptions.

Favorite chest exercises:

Incline press: DB or BB, I've never found an incline machine I care for.
Incline DB fly's
10 degree BB press: Take a bench, incline it about 10 degrees. You normally have to do this under a smith machine. It's a lot like flat bench but takes that grind out of the shoulders. One of my favorite chest moves.

Favorite back exercises:

Bent over BB rows
Rack pulls
Cable pullovers

Favorite shoulder exercises:

Run the rack DB lateral raises: Usually start with 50-60lbs, do 10 or so reps, drop 5-10lbs and repeat. Continue to repeat down to 10lb DB's. Run through this once, rest and do it again. That's normally enough. One of the few high rep things I've ever done on a semi-regular basis.

Reverse shoulder press: Can be done on plate loaded hammer strength or similar machine. Sit in the machine backwards facing the seat and press.

Favorite Quad exercises:

BB squats
Hack squats

Favorite hamstring/glute exercises:

Jefferson squats
And I don't know what they're called: I put my knees on the seat of a seated calf raise or lat machine and lock my ankles in. Hands behind the back and curl my upper body down to the floor until my head slightly touches the floor. You can also do these on certain hyper extension equipment, the ones you have to climb up into, but the other way I just described will give you much better hamstring stimulation. If you can't do them without falling on your face, and most people can't at first, cheat with your hands until you get the hang of it.

Favorite bicep exercises:

BB curl
Machine preacher curl

Favorite tricep exercises:

Incline BB or DB skulls
standard vbar cable press down

I don't care for the concentration curl you mentioned. That doesn't mean it's not a good exercise, I just don't care for it.

[kelkel]

Always a good read metal!

[gearbox]

Do we have a way to run test suspension and it be painless. I can't even run prop ouch!!
I was under the impression no ester would be incredibly painful?

[Metalject]

Do we have a way to run test suspension and it be painless. I can't even run prop ouch!!
I was under the impression no ester would be incredibly painful?

Suspension hurts a lot of guys. Just the way it is. Some say oil base suspension is a little more tolerable but I don't have an opinion as I've never used it.
And the nasty truth is a lot of bodybuilders do not feel any pain. It has nothing to do with being tough, manly or some kind of bad ass. It's the simple fact that many bodybuilders take enormous amounts of pain meds. I've said this before, bodybuilding is often one of the nastiest and beyond crude and despicable things/groups/people on the planet. I go back and forth in my head as to which is worse, the porn industry or bodybuilding. But I'd probably say bodybuilding is worse. At least in porn they're honest about who they are and they're even drug tested for crap like that. End rant

[hankdiesel]

I read just about the whole thread Metal. You got some pretty interesting stuff here. I'm done several shows and just started my prep a week ago. I haven't had blood work done in 3 years and this past Thurs I had it drawn and I have a doctors apt this week to go over it. Did you have your levels checked while competing/cycling like this?

Your dosages are much higher than mine. However, I did attempt to donate blood a few weeks ago and my rbc count was so high they wouldn't even take it. That scared me enough to get proper insurance and see a doc. I plan on taking an even more conservative approach this prep based on my test results this coming week.

[Metalject]

I read just about the whole thread Metal. You got some pretty interesting stuff here. I'm done several shows and just started my prep a week ago. I haven't had blood work done in 3 years and this past Thurs I had it drawn and I have a doctors apt this week to go over it. Did you have your levels checked while competing/cycling like this?

Your dosages are much higher than mine. However, I did attempt to donate blood a few weeks ago and my rbc count was so high they wouldn't even take it. That scared me enough to get proper insurance and see a doc. I plan on taking an even more conservative approach this prep based on my test results this coming week.

Yes, I was fortunate to have free blood work available to me anytime I wanted it and got it done every 16wks whether I was on or off for several years. I never had any issues or problems.
Now I wasn't having my testosterone levels checked during that time. That would seem somewhat pointless being that I was on far more so than not. By blood work, I was just keeping an eye on my general health.

The only issue I ever had health related was the dehydration story I shared in another post.

[David PvP]

jsut a small advice if you could give us,i am just about to finish my sust+eq cycle,and want to go trt levels of test for 4 weeks ntill my next cycle,how do you think i should fit the hcg in there?still the 250x2 a week?

[Metalject]

jsut a small advice if you could give us,i am just about to finish my sust+eq cycle,and want to go trt levels of test for 4 weeks ntill my next cycle,how do you think i should fit the in there?still the 250x2 a week?

A TRT level of testosterone would be 100-200mg/wk. When I would cruise on TRT levels that's all I would do.

[David PvP]

edited HCG ,what would be you're normal use of HCG on cycle and off?

[APM]

Is funny bostin Lloyd was mentioned earlier, I looked up one of his vids, he goes over his exact mg/doses of his prep before a show, holy F!! The amount of gear is through the roof!

Going back to my previous post/question when I asked about how much is "a lot of gear"... I'm going to guess this is what you meant when u said insane prep cycles...

He also talks A LOT about synthol... Do you have any experience with this? Is this something that really does run rampant with the hardcore guys in the sport, yet is never talked about much? I never really knew much about it or how it was dosed until I watched this vid, interesting stuff...

If you have a minute check out this vid. Forward to the 11:00min mark, this is when he starts to talk about the gear

Something else he mentions that I found interesting is he talks about good coaches and bad coaches... Starts around 26min

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JArXv7JAtUg

[Metalject]

edited HCG,what would be you're normal use of HCG on cycle and off?

250-500iu/2x/wk Anytime you're using gear is a good range.
During my bodybuilding days, I never used it unless I happened to be coming off. Back then I'd run 1,000iu every day for 10-14 days straight and then some clomid and nolva. Did it work well? I don't know, I never stayed off long enough to give a really good answer to that question. But I think there's better approaches.

Use HCG when on cycle. If you're coming off, using some prior to nolva and clomid might be OK. How long and how much I'm a little torn. William Llewllyn's always had some interesting protocols for this but I think they might be a little overkill.

[krugerr]

Use HCG when on cycle. If you're coming off, using some prior to nolva and clomid might be OK. How long and how much I'm a little torn. William Llewllyn's always had some interesting protocols for this but I think they might be a little overkill.

Not to argue with you on this Metal - But I read some of Williams book, Anabolics, and some of his recommended cycles are far from what are recommended here on the forums. Oral only cycles etc.
Do you think his approaches to things, as well as his HCG protocols have much experience behind them?

[David PvP]

what are youre toughts on going prop year round? (well xcept the bridge when trt test e would be best)
test e does the job but i think prop kicks harder...

[Metalject]

Not to argue with you on this Metal - But I read some of Williams book, Anabolics, and some of his recommended cycles are far from what are recommended here on the forums. Oral only cycles etc.
Do you think his approaches to things, as well as his HCG protocols have much experience behind them?

Most of Llewllyn's work is based on hard data, meaning the drugs are examined, this is what they do and don't do, how they function and then a proposition is made. Then he'll take numerous clinical studies to help support his propositions. In my opinion, his work is some of the best out there in terms of learning how the various hormones work. As far as real life data, gym user data, I don't know if he uses much of that. I would be very surprised if he did.

As far as oral only cycles, in my opinion they do have a place in the world of PED's and can be done without severe damage to the liver or shutting down your testosterone production. I've argued this point several times on the main board but it's like trying scream at a brick wall. But they have no place in bodybuilding or with what most want to do, the reason they're using steroids .

[Metalject]

what are youre toughts on going prop year round? (well xcept the bridge when trt test e would be best)
test e does the job but i think prop kicks harder...

People say Testosterone Propionate kicks harder because it has more testosterone per mg. For example, if you have 100mg of testosterone the ester that is attached takes up some of the mass. Take Testosterone Propionate and Testosterone Cypionate . 100mg of Test Cyp will yield 69mg of active testosterone. 100mg of Test Prop will yield around 83-85mg of testosterone (it's between 83-85, can't remember the exact number). So if a guy takes, for example, 500mg of Test Cyp and later 500mg of Test Prop, he's getting more testosterone when he uses Test Prop. With the Test Cyp, he's getting 345mg of active testosterone. With the Test Prop, he's getting 415-425mg of active testosterone.

Anyway, if you're using big time bodybuilding doses, regardless of the ester attached, most guy end up splitting it into several injections per week. For example, let's say you're taking 1500mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week. A lot of guys won't inject this much in 1-2 injections but will split it into 3-4. Most common is to pick a number that you'll inject every other day. The reason a lot of guys do this is it helps control the estradiol spike a little bit. Of course everyone's different. Some guys have to take a lot of AI no matter how they do it and some guys get away with very little AI even with massive testosterone doses.

[Metalject]

Is funny bostin Lloyd was mentioned earlier, I looked up one of his vids, he goes over his exact mg/doses of his prep before a show, holy F!! The amount of gear is through the roof!

Going back to my previous post/question when I asked about how much is "a lot of gear"... I'm going to guess this is what you meant when u said insane prep cycles...

He also talks A LOT about synthol... Do you have any experience with this? Is this something that really does run rampant with the hardcore guys in the sport, yet is never talked about much? I never really knew much about it or how it was dosed until I watched this vid, interesting stuff...

If you have a minute check out this vid. Forward to the 11:00min mark, this is when he starts to talk about the gear

Something else he mentions that I found interesting is he talks about good coaches and bad coaches... Starts around 26min

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JArXv7JAtUg

I'll take a look. Give me a few days. I'll try to watch it this weekend.

[krugerr]

Most of Llewllyn's work is based on hard data, meaning the drugs are examined, this is what they do and don't do, how they function and then a proposition is made. Then he'll take numerous clinical studies to help support his propositions. In my opinion, his work is some of the best out there in terms of learning how the various hormones work. As far as real life data, gym user data, I don't know if he uses much of that. I would be very surprised if he did.

As far as oral only cycles, in my opinion they do have a place in the world of PED's and can be done without severe damage to the liver or shutting down your testosterone production. I've argued this point several times on the main board but it's like trying scream at a brick wall. But they have no place in bodybuilding or with what most want to do, the reason they're using steroids.

Thanks for the feedback buddy! I knew he was a big name in the AAS world, I just wasnt sure how seriously he was taken.