This may cause me to get banned....

**bermich** · 03-14-2004, 05:12 AM

This is a great board. Lately, the past couple of weeks, Ive found myself reading mostly in the archives. Posting or reading anything new here has become almost pointless. Ive held back on typing my comments and opinions out of respect for Jason and his hard work that he puts into this site. Its almost sad to me that I have to log on at a lame ass hour of the night to get this out. It will probably get me banned but Im not the type of person to just shove credit up peoples asses when they dont deserve it just because they hold a mod or vet position.
In my opinion, this board, even with its "cleaning house" method as of late, is heading, if not spiraling downhill. Sure it is 20,000 members but how many of those log on. Lately, the past few months has been NOTHING but an INFLUX of newbie members logging on and posting no more than five posts before vanishing forever.
This place has become a revolving door for newbie retards. Seasoned members entertain their lame ass questions with the same typical answer to appear as being curtious and a gracious host of the board.
Sure this place is meant to be a site to get info and the topic has been brought up time and time again in referance to the same questions being answered. There may not be a solution to it but the problem has grown to the point where it has become a cancer killing the main concept of the board.
The main concept is to have good posts in the archives. Not 90% of the posts asking for a first cycle.
Another problem is the power trip of some of the mods and then the notion that "THEY" are ALWAYS RIGHT and what they say goes. Thats all fine and well but that doesnt lead to respect. That just leads to bitterness.
Of course their solution is "if you dont like it, leave." Thats a great motto to have. Its nice to belong to a group that backs you up regardless of whether or not you made the right decision. Its also nice to have another group that kisses your ass when you set rules forth like blind puppies in hopes of becoming a proud member of that group someday.
I just dont get it. I dont get how members can be banned for actions ABSOLUTELY UNRELATED to this board just soley because a MOD read a post pasted from a chatroom. Then when anyone disputes it, he gets jumped on by other mods and the famous line "if you dont like it, leave" is typed.
That is such a BULLSHlT way to let MODS run a board. Even if that member was disliked, he should have other issues relating to this board to cause his banning. Of course posts will be dug up supporting his banning.

There are a lot of people on this board and there needs to be a lot of MODs looking over it but this place is getting to be communistic.
Out of nowhere a thread is CLOSED, LOCKED, and or DELETED without any consent of other MODS. A thread is started asking about it and then the MODS threaten BANNING if anyone asked about it. WTF is that all about.
TELLING US WHAT WE CAN AND CANT ASK????
Thats such a lovely concept to have: You can say anything you like but if we dont like it, we just delete it. Even if only ONE person complains about it, we will delete it because we cant have that ONE person unhappy.

Telling us we cant ask about certain members.
Telling us we cant post a thread about an ex member killed in Texas becasue it causes contraversy?
What next? Treating us like fvcking children by threatening to LOCK the LOUNGE??? This place is getting to be ridiculous with the CONTROL of the MODS.
YEAH, SEE HOW MANY MEMBERS YOU KEEP IF YOU LOCK THE LOUNGE.
Of course this is a board for working out. But I can garuantee you that if this place becomes SOLELY a place with JUST steroid info and no form of entertainment, it will fall.
Any form of disagreement is quickly DELETED by a MOD then the member is banned without an explination.
Cant even type the word D A M N without it getting sensored.

Then MODS getting pissed cause they get PMs from members complaining about the lounge. SO FVCKING WHAT. If they have the babies balls to complain about a thread that they did not have to read, then they should be banned for being the biggest CRYING BITCH on the board.
But instead, those TWO or THREE SAME members give a MOD an idea to shut down an entire forum. GREAT and EASY solution. That just solves your SUCH A BUSY scheduled day.

Is this place being revamped to suit the needs of the newbies who come in to post once and then never use that screen name again?
It helps people obtain illegal substances and yet will not display girls in G string bathing suits because female members get offended.
One member complains and 1,000 members suffer because of it.

If you see BANNED under my name, this is why. Or this thread will just be deleted before anyone sees it before Sunday morning. No loss. I feel better knowing I typed how I feel.

**jon rock** · 03-14-2004, 05:50 AM

It kind of makes you feel powerless when you are sensored all the time.
I dont like that feeling.

**groverman1** · 03-14-2004, 06:22 AM

It's a fine line, I do agree mostly with you Bermich. To bad there isnt some kind of screening process before you join. Also if you can't speak your mind what else is there IMO. It's a matter of maturity some guys are 18 and act 40 and there are the opposite. But I hear ya brother.

**Money Boss Hustla** · 03-14-2004, 07:22 AM

I don't think you will be banned for speaking your mind. I think you do bring up some valid points that need to be addressed. However, it's not easy to please everyone.

Hang tight bro...wait until the noobs are gone...we'll be one big happy family again.

**bornbad71** · 03-14-2004, 07:51 AM

You do bring up some valid points(like MBH said), I'm sure someone will read your post and get mad, but there are many different personalities on this board and with that sometimes people clash with one another.....I don't always agree with othere members and I don't always agree with mods/vets, but that is a choice I have since this is an open board. There is no doubt a wealth of knowledge here, but it seems to get way to serious over some small issues.
I guess until one has walked in a mods/vets shoes then it is hard to realisise what they have to go thru, but in turn it is a board for the members....because without the members all u have is a board full of mods/vets which will probably not last to long.
All should remember we are adults here, your not forced to post here and you should be able to speak your mind when u don't agree with something...it doesn't mean going out and flaming others, starting a argument, or let it lead to drama....the board will always be what WE THE MEMBERS make it!!!!!!!!!

**Money Boss Hustla** · 03-14-2004, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by bornbad71

the board will always be what WE THE MEMBERS make it!!!!!!!!!

100% agreed. Well said.

**daman1** · 03-14-2004, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla

100% agreed. Well said.

I second that MBH

**Kato** · 03-14-2004, 09:25 AM

good post! alot of bros to keep happy though!

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-14-2004, 09:41 AM

I have been here for a while and I dont know, maby I am blind or something but I cant se all the drama that is suposed to go on right now

I dont read every thread religiously so thats might be why I have missed it

but if it causes so much grief(sp?) for the mods then I support them fully in every decision(except closing the lounge that would be a great lose, cause honestly talking/reading about roids get old quick

) This board has the best off topic section without a doubt and if someone tries to ruin it for us then ban those mofo's!!

To the mods, maby apoint more mods to lighten the burden a bit

?

**withoutd0ubt** · 03-14-2004, 09:42 AM

sums up exactly what many members feel including myself

**Devourer** · 03-14-2004, 09:52 AM

bermich I LOVE YOU!

**manijak** · 03-14-2004, 10:15 AM

"Those who sacrifice liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither one"
Benjamin Franklin

It's the overwhelming zionist movement that has already consumed minds of most people inhabitating northern part of this hemisfere.
Freedom of expresion is free as long as you are saying what we like.....otherwise....you end up banned or in Guantanamo Bay.....

**Testify** · 03-14-2004, 10:30 AM

I think there is some overractting on both "sides." It comes down to this. The Mods and many members here are tired of reading through threads where people flame and generally behave like two-year-olds. I know I am. It is their jobs to police the board, but there is a lot more involved with running a board of this size. Especially when they all do it part time. Maybe the stress of having to deal with these more frequent outbursts is high, and the tolerance for unwieldly members is dwindling.

I am grateful that there has been an attempt to control the board to some extent. Of course we will not always agree with every decision that the administration makes. But their actions are largely understandable when you step back and view the complete picture. Something had to be done eventually, before AR devolved into a board like elite. Since being nice did not work, action had to be taken.

As one of your guys said, the board is as good as its members. So, pressure to behave at least somewhat like adults has to come from within the membership, as well as from above. Peer pressure usually works. But in the end it comes down to personal responsibility. If you are civil and not profane or verbally abusive, you will be fine. If you do act unacceptably, you are ultimately going to be banned from the board. Lets not get stuck on the loss of a few members who behaved like children. Lets make this a great board again.

I did not originally intend to ramble like that, but I feel it was necessary to say this.

**Danielle** · 03-14-2004, 10:30 AM

i usually am the one to avoid confrontation and not stick my nose where i know it doesnt belong.......

but......Bermich, i must say i read your whole post word for word.........and you did bring up some good points.....and i totally agree 100%..........why should everyone be punished for a few peoples actions?!?!?!......... i mean, this is not kindergarden (when one child disrupted class and NO ONE was able to go to recess or some bull**** like that).....please......i thought we were over that a long time ago..........

Swellin · 03-14-2004, 10:34 AM

Kudos for you having the balls to speak your mind. I think you said a lot of things that need to be considered by the powers that be.
I supported the mods on the situation you mentioned. I thought the chat room was part of AR...having never been there, I had no idea it was simply set up by a member for other AR members to drop in. That makes the decision a bit different.
I think the mods do have to protect the interest of the board, but not at the expense of the members (as a whole).
I have no solution...there is a line between policing the board and becoming a police state on the board. I don't have the answer, but I can see the problem from both sides...it sux. Now, this will push the mods' back against the wall and make them feel either defensive or make them feel like they need to explain everything they do...I don't like that either.
I like the this place better than the rest, but lately it has taken on a different feel.

**Elliot** · 03-14-2004, 10:34 AM

bermich i might have busted your balls in the past, but right now i have nothing but repsect for you man.. at lease someone has the balls to voice thier opinion..

LORDBLiTZ · 03-14-2004, 10:49 AM

I agree with bermich 100%. It's like lockdown around here.

**Commando_Barbi** · 03-14-2004, 11:15 AM

Berm - I can't see why they would ban you for this post. You spoke your mind without being disrespectful IMO. I agree that things seem to be getting out of control. There are a few that seem intent on making things bad for the rest. Mods have a tough job. Hard to maintain order.

Things will settle down and return to normal, hopefully sooner rather than later.

C.B.

**Doc M** · 03-14-2004, 11:27 AM

Bermich..You have been around the board for quite some time, and I absolutely repsect what you have to say and the fact you had the guts to pipe up and speak your mind..Personally, I would never ban or give someone a hard time for being honest..

I do agree with some of your comments, but there is much more to the story then what everyone keeps harping on..The more this banning gets brought up, the more it brews hostility on both sides..The decision is final, and not everyone is going to agree with it, but when tough decisions have to be made it generally never makes EVERYONE happy..Bringing it up time and time again is not going to change anything..It needs to be dropped and we need to move on and focus on the future..

I think a lot of the members are reading into this issue way too much..A member crossed the line here at AR and in the lounge..If he wanted to call out anyone, including a Mod, he should have done it in a more mature and sensible manner..He chose to take the other route..What is the point of challenging anyone to a fight from this board and then talking how they punked them..That is kindergarden behavior in my opinion..

The Mods do listen to what is said and suggested by the members here..It's just not possible to implement these ideas and make everyone happy with the decisions that are always made..This is the downside of being in a position that requires difficult decisions that will affect the entire board..Most have no idea what goes on behind the scenes here at AR and the amount of time the Mods have to spend here just to try and keep up..I can tell you as being the newest Mod that I didn't have any idea and am now discovering the massive load of responsibility and time that is required..Everyone just needs to take a step back and look at this from both sides of the fence..

Jason has spent an enormous amount of time to consistently improve this board so it can stay at the top of the board on the net..Every board goes through transitions and bumpy times..the boards that remain at the top are the ones that bounce back with the support of the members and staff..If you guys would just be a little more patient, things will only get better..

Bermich, don't worry yourself about getting banned..It is more than acceptable to debate and question decisions that are made..Just keep it in a respectful manner and all will work out for everyone..I have said my peace..

Doc M

**decadbal** · 03-14-2004, 12:11 PM

berm, your 100% dead on it, super close to communism, i have felt the same way for a few days and just didnt man up to say, bc i actually thought id get banned, so i just said **** it. your right bro, and bornbad is right, this site is a great one bc of the members who come everyday, and honestly with all this censorship, i have really thought about not coming back, dont get me wrong, i love it here, and i respect the rules about racism and nudity, anything past that is someone on a ego trip, and im not willin to tolerate that.... the internet is to big with way to many places to go that dont control your statments.

**monster.** · 03-14-2004, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doc M

I think a lot of the members are reading into this issue way too much..A member crossed the line here at AR and in the lounge..If he wanted to call out anyone, including a Mod, he should have done it in a more mature and sensible manner..He chose to take the other route..What is the point of challenging anyone to a fight from this board and then talking how they punked them..That is kindergarden behavior in my opinion..

Just keep it in a respectful manner and all will work out for everyone..I have said my peace..

Doc M

This issue is being beaten to death, it doesn't need to be dragged out any further.. I agree with your post Bermich, I think an uneasy feeling sits in everybodys stomach as of recently.. I give you credit for your honesty and respect.. I was not going to respond, but i feel i need to recap, what happened..

Doc, I have to ultimately disagree with what you said in bold.. In no way did a member cross the line ON AR OR IN THE LOUNGE.. Actually a member of administration brought a personal issue ONTO the board.. Call it how you want, we ALL know it wasn't a nice thing to do, on the members part.. I feel the paticular members had enough respect for their home board, and fellow members to save them from the bullsh!t that would eventually, and did unfold.. That paticular thread was a disgrace to the board, and i would be questioning the judgement of the bro that started it.. It was filled with negativity, and bashing from ALOT of members.. I am happy its gone.. People are entitled to their opinions, thats life.. I think we are all big boys, and can deal with it.. I believe because that thread was started in the first place, made alot of members question, are some people capable of doing their job in a positive way..

My 2 cents

monster.

**palme** · 03-14-2004, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ

I agree with bermich 100%. It's like lockdown around here.

You'll be the first one getting it from behind!

LORDBLiTZ · 03-14-2004, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by palme

You'll be the first one getting it from behind!

Only in your dreams

**PurePower** · 03-14-2004, 12:52 PM

A Civil War on AR????

**decadbal** · 03-14-2004, 01:07 PM

a board divided cannot stand

**markas214** · 03-14-2004, 01:18 PM

Basically AR is not a democracy. It is more a dictatorship. The founder and mods have total control and never give the impression otherwise. If some choose to break the no flame rule that is on them.

**big daddy k de** · 03-14-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Money Boss Hustla

100% agreed. Well said.

Ditto ...but, i have not seen allot of the old bros posting. They are what made the AR i know and love

**decadbal** · 03-14-2004, 01:23 PM

what if your not flamin and a mod takes your statment as so? we have freedom of speech for a reason, and its a shame that someone who uses it, doenst embrace it to a message board where a hi percent of the users are on illegal substances, and get pissed easily, doesnt make sense. i personally think stupid quarrels are entertaining...

**Mr. Death** · 03-14-2004, 01:24 PM

[QUOTE=johan]I have been here for a while and I dont know, maby I am blind or something but I cant se all the drama that is suposed to go on right now

[QUOTE]

Me either. I read almost everything on here and IMO it hasn't deviated one bit from the status quo. All the reaction seems to be from some members being upset that the mods are doing their jobs. I think some members and some of the mods as well need to lighten up.

**chicamahomico** · 03-14-2004, 01:33 PM

I agree 100% with you Bermich.

Monster, you are on the money bro. Your post is both accurate and reasonable IMO.

Swellin, I remeber your post in that thread, as well as a few other members who's names I won't mention. Why people would post when they don't know the whole story is beyond me. Swellin, I think much more highly of you for owning up to which side of the fence you stood on since the thread is deleted and members can no longer view it. You are at least man enough to own up to the fact that you didn't have all the facts. I extend this ackonledgement of honor to SwoleCat who also, after posting some garbage in the thread, owned up to it and apologized in his 'state of the union' thread. Attitudes like that make we want to do business with the guy. Swole, if I'm ever going to buy a diet plan, you'll be where I spend my money.

Originally Posted by Swellin

....
I supported the mods on the situation you mentioned. I thought the chat room was part of AR...having never been there, I had no idea it was simply set up by a member for other AR members to drop in. That makes the decision a bit different......

***Cycleon*** · 03-14-2004, 01:35 PM

A. there is no civil war on AR - it is the incivility that is a problem

B. Members do not "let us be Mods" - I and other SMods select the mods that we honestly think are best for the board - and usually get a lot of input from the members on that - but ultimately I pick them andI boot them, same as members with the goal being what we think is best for the board.

C. Bringing a legitimate concern like this is not an issue to be banned over at all - we are open to any suggestion that improves the board and I for one am certainly am exceedingly happy to entertain any idea that relieves my headaches and that of others.

D. Just because you can complain still doesnt help that much - all I really hear is bitching, what I would really like to hear is solutions - the best ideas are usually from members - and just because I dont return peoples PMs with ideas doesnt mean that I dont keep them in mind!
E. No one gives me the idea to shut down the lounge - I considered it because, with the authority invested in me - it is my right to do so, even my job.

F. If you act like bratty children, why would you not assume you will be treated like them? - frankly, I have seen elementary school classes better behaved of late - dont think that you are given respect just because you take up space - it has to be earned - and you darn sure dont get it by acting as some (a limited few) have been doing.

G. Problem is, instead of everyone else smacking down the people who do not know how to behave yet, we have far too many that coddle these people instead of calling them to carpet - these are too often those who think that they are indespensible to the board because they have put up 500 posts in the last 3 months and that they know what the board is really about.

H. THose of you who have actually BEEN here awhile know that crap like this seems to surface maybe once every 8-12 months, with the influx of "all knowing newbies" - things come to a head, we boot whoever is needed and the board goes along again.

I. Many who have actually been around long enough to start here and go to another board and even mod or admin there, will pretty much all agree that "MY GOD! NOW I UNDERSTAND" as they get their own influx of brats and idiots. In fact, a number have done so, only to have their boards blow up because they nievely thought they would allow it all to be "free wheeling"

J. And yes, if you dont like the way that we sovereignly run AR, then either step up and help us with good suggestions, help us keep the crap at bay, or if we are just too restrictive for your "let it all hang out self" then by all means go start your own board and see how long it lasts.

***Cycleon*** · 03-14-2004, 01:41 PM

For the record I too origionally thought that it was our chat board we were talking about - and I was really not part of the decisions that happened - but I will back the mods who took action for the reasons that they did so

You can also be very sure that we will no longer allow any forwarding URLs to be posted to other sites that have any chat element - so far I have not seen that go well at all and this is not the first time - and I will be very selective of who can post any links to other boards

**Rickson** · 03-14-2004, 01:50 PM

I think there are a couple of things that people should understand. First that the rules at hand have existed on this board since the beginning. No flaming, no explicit avatars, and an atmosphere where everyone can feel comfortable to learn were all part of the original vision. I think as a group the mods need to do a better job of sharing that vision. It is our job to see to it this board stays true to the path for which it was created. That doesn't include petty word wars, naked girls, or any of the other things that people lately seem to feel infringe on their rights. This is a private board and the rules are maintained by the MODS. This has never been a democracy but a benevolent dictatorship where hopefully what is best for all prevail. In the same post that you complain about tactics for controlling people you tell us to ignore the complaints of others who don't like what is happening. That doesn't seem in line with your original thoughts. Do we only run the board to your standards or to the vocal few you happen to listen to on the Lounge. Maybe you don't truly realize how many senior members complain. I do think your post has merit but I am not interested in getting in to a debate with people about the problems or mistakes of the past. Give me legitimate fixes that can work for everyone and I am all ears instead of I want to be able to look at naked girls and say what I want. You are all right this isn't kindergarten so instead of compounding the problems take the time to help us fix them in a noncombative way. I promise we listen more than you may give us credit and we care more than you will ever know.

***Cycleon*** · 03-14-2004, 01:55 PM

Also - to add - you might be surprised but no other area of the board gives us much trouble - and many members never even come into the lounge! it only seems to be a few of those who continually hang out in here that seem to think that they know what AR is all about and stir up trouble that takes Mods time away from allllll the other forums - there are a lot of mods who dont ever come in here either - most of what we know is because members report to us so - that was jsut for everyones enlightenment.

I gurarantee you that if this forum wasnt here to suck up our time with its enless childish squabbiling from newbie members, maybe our mods would have a lot more time to post up interesting studies, cycles and training methods - something that 80% of our memebrs are actually more interested in.

**Commando_Barbi** · 03-14-2004, 02:16 PM

Great responses from the MODS (and no I'm not kissing ass). I would hate to see the lounge closed, but I also hate to see the hate and discontent in there. AR is the only board I come to after checking out a few of the others. Seems this board has a great group of people and for the most part everyone makes one another feel welcome.

You all have a tough job and everyone is human leaving room for human response to any given situation. Right or wrong, decisions are made and for the most part have to be supported by the other member's in leadership here. Sometimes, wrong decisions are made (not saying that has or hasn't happened) which requires reconsideration. Takes a strong leader to look back, re-evaluate and change course if necessary. It's hard not to let ego get in the way.

Everyone has freedom of speech. Everyone also has freedom of CHOICE. You have the right to voice your opinon. With every decision there are consequences. The board has established rules which we all have a agreed to when we joined. The leadership has a responsibility to enforce the policies. If the members are upset with the policies, discuss that and attempt to change them. If you aren't happy with how the board is run, by all means, make the CHOICE to go to another board or start your own.

I think that if you are honest....you will see that no matter where you go, you won't find another board that is run as well as this board is or has the high standards that this one has.

C.B.

**groverman1** · 03-14-2004, 04:21 PM

The problem here is the same in all facets of life. Some people can't live without some sort of tumoil or drama. I see it in my family, at work at the fire house, in the gym, everywhere. I feel for them all.

**Ammar** · 03-14-2004, 04:49 PM

I agree with most of the points you brought up Bermich...I do see it from the mods viewpoint also though. I am sure it gets frustrating answering the same question 20 times a day.

**Lostsoul** · 03-14-2004, 09:34 PM

I hope the mods don't close the lounge, I find there are a lot of good discussions in here, and you don't get that anywhere else. I usually only come to the lounge lately, because the other forums don't interest me at the moment...

Maybe the mods can give new members posting rights to SOME of the board when they join, like the educational forums and maybe the steroid questions forum, and just read access to the rest of the site. after a certain period of time they are allowed to post on all parts of the board?

But this is just the usual "cycle" of newbies coming on, causing trouble, and the flushed out soon enough and everything goes back to normal. AR is a great board and the most "family" orientated board around, I hope the few don't ruin it for the rest of us.

**Doc M** · 03-14-2004, 09:49 PM

[Lostsoul] Maybe the mods can give new members posting rights to SOME of the board when they join, like the educational forums and maybe the steroid questions forum, and just read access to the rest of the site. after a certain period of time they are allowed to post on all parts of the board?

This is the type of constructive brainstorming that needs to take place..More of this and a little less complaining is what the SMods, Mods, and Admin are looking for..Don't know if this is even possible Lostsoul, but it's certainly constructive in nature and warrants discussion I would think..

Doc M