Does wireless internet connection make it harder for Feds to hastle me?

**UrbanLegend** · 04-09-2004, 09:39 PM

I recently bought myself a wireless internet router, and it works really well. I was wondering if it made things harder for the feds when it comes to tracking internet activities. What do you guys know or think?

-Thanks

**bermich** · 04-09-2004, 11:50 PM

NO. You are still using the internet. You are still using an IP address. The only difference is you dont have wires to trip over in your house.
There are software programs that will help you encrypt your computer files, encrypted email sites and other programs that can help you stay hidden. Takes a lot of research and it is mainly for magor fed criminals. Too much troulbe if you are just doing a couple cycles a year....

**HyperSick** · 04-10-2004, 12:20 AM

Turn DHCP off, get a firewall, set up a static IP settiing.

But NO, it's not hard for "feds" to track you if they need to.

**navydevildoc** · 04-10-2004, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by HyperSick

Turn DHCP off, get a firewall, set up a static IP settiing.

But NO, it's not hard for "feds" to track you if they need to.

Actually, in a way this makes it easier to prove that it really was you doing the surfing or e-mailing, whatever.

If you have wireless wide open with DHCP, the wireless router running NAT, you could always argue in court that someone else was feeding off of your internet. Now, if you are bulging muscles, the judge probably isn't gonna believe you, but still....

If you really want to be safe, encrypt EVERYTHING you do. Wiretapping internet communications is still a pain in the ass. It can be done, but generally won't happen unless you are a big player.

**CarbonCopy** · 04-12-2004, 11:12 PM

Wireless and security are two words IMO that don't mix. It would make it eaiser for someone to monitor your actives if you are using wireless. And, MUCH eaiser to monitor if the wireless network is poorly configured.

Peace,

CC

**marrok** · 04-15-2004, 09:09 PM

CarbonCopy is on the mark. The wireless if anything while freeing you from wires may make you more vunerable. I live in an apartment complex and also have wireless. If I take a wireless survey of the building I can actually see other unsecrued routers. I have been able to connect to these routers and essentially become part of their network. With the advancement of the wireless tech. the transmission distances are ever increasing. Some steps you can take is most routers will let you specify the MAC or hardware address of the wireless network cards that should have access. Also you can use various forms of encryption WEP / DES etc. to encrypt the traffic between your machine and router.

**xtrader** · 05-31-2004, 01:29 PM

Yes. If you dont turn on your WEP (built in wireless encryption) in the wireless router, your open play in the air. Normally, 50' away from the house you can be hacked without WEP.

**Hometown Hero** · 06-26-2004, 02:52 AM

Listen to me. If the feds are sitting outside your house monitoring your internet activity on a laptop then you are ****ed anyway. I can barely get good signal strength downstairs on my laptop let alone at my neighbors house. Security issue? Very small. Those things dont have enough range to put you in any significant danger. Although in repsonse to your question.... absolutely not. Internet is internet. The only differance would be... their trace would end at your wireless router which does absolutely dick to help your situation as it has still been traced to your residence.

**bad_man** · 06-26-2004, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hometown Hero

Those things dont have enough range to put you in any significant danger.

You sure about that? Then how did I sit in my local Burger King last weekend and crack into Barnes and Noble down the road while feasting on a tasty chicken whopper?

**Elliot** · 06-26-2004, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by bad_man

You sure about that? Then how did I sit in my local Burger King last weekend and crack into Barnes and Noble down the road while feasting on a tasty chicken whopper?

depending on the routers strenght.. most domestic ones go about 50 yards.. i have a 802b rounter and i can bearly get a signal outside my house.. but then again i didnt get it run around the neighborhood with it.. also a huge mestike thats very common among newbies is the lack of a password protected access..

**DBarcelo** · 06-26-2004, 12:08 PM

I used to work for the phone company in the central office. There's nothing you can do to stop the feds from monitoring what you do over the phone lines unless you can develop an encryption system of your own. All phone lines have to be run through equipment in the central office that allows it to be monitored remotely. And you're not going to have the Feds sitting outside your window monitoring anything. They can sit in a nice comfortable office in Washington and listen to your conversation in California. They can be in China and monitor your internet activity in Texas. If you thing someone is on to someing you're doing, the only thing you can do is to stop. If you have certain operating systems, they can even check out whats on your hard drive while you're on the internet. Keep in mind, the whole concept of the internet was based on military and CIA use for decades before it was made available to the public.

**Hometown Hero** · 06-26-2004, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Elliot

depending on the routers strenght.. most domestic ones go about 50 yards.. i have a 802b rounter and i can bearly get a signal outside my house.. but then again i didnt get it run around the neighborhood with it.. also a huge mestike thats very common among newbies is the lack of a password protected access..

I would truely love to know because you obviously have better equipment then anyone I know. How far is this place from your house? Thats **** impressive. Even so, I still wouldn't imagine a problem... put the conspiracy theories in check guys.

**Hometown Hero** · 06-26-2004, 03:40 PM

Actually now that you mention it Barns and Noble? Thats a corporate network... more then likely running an NT system. I would say they have stronger networking equipment then your average bear. How did you crack in if you dont mind my asking... after you located the signal?

**doby48** · 06-27-2004, 10:45 AM

Its easy to access data if a person does not set their security on their firewall correctly. I have some novice friends who haven't paid for intenet access in over a year cause they live in different apparentment buildings and just go off of someone elses wireless network connection. But basically if someone really wants to see what you are doing it is next to impossible to prevent it. I work in security for a large company and try to hack in to find any holes, and there are lots of companies who do this for banks and other places with high security. Heck even the miliary and government pays to have someone try and hack their systems and find the holes. If they are leaving holes open a single individual definatly is. But honestly, they aren't going to put through their efforts to try and track someone for what they consider minor issues like roids. I have a firewall and and also continuously monitor connections to my computer so if there is a hole I will see the person connect and I know what needs to be fixed.

**DNoMac** · 06-27-2004, 12:46 PM

I've been getting service off a few of my neighbors for the past 6 months. Couple of the signals i pick up are password protected, others only work in specific parts of my apartment.

**bad_man** · 06-27-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hometown Hero

Actually now that you mention it Barns and Noble? Thats a corporate network... more then likely running an NT system. I would say they have stronger networking equipment then your average bear. How did you crack in if you dont mind my asking... after you located the signal?

This isn't meant as an insult, but if you knew anything about cracking, you wouldn't have to ask me the question. And since you are asking the question, there is not enough space here to answer the question.

If anyone is interested though, PM me and I can direct you to some sites where you can learn the basics of hacking and cracking.

**Elliot** · 06-27-2004, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by doby48

Its easy to access data if a person does not set their security on their firewall correctly. I have some novice friends who haven't paid for intenet access in over a year cause they live in different apparentment buildings and just go off of someone elses wireless network connection. But basically if someone really wants to see what you are doing it is next to impossible to prevent it. I work in security for a large company and try to hack in to find any holes, and there are lots of companies who do this for banks and other places with high security. Heck even the miliary and government pays to have someone try and hack their systems and find the holes. If they are leaving holes open a single individual definatly is. But honestly, they aren't going to put through their efforts to try and track someone for what they consider minor issues like roids. I have a firewall and and also continuously monitor connections to my computer so if there is a hole I will see the person connect and I know what needs to be fixed.

yup before i was uber leet

i used to provide inet service to my building not realizing why my 300k/byte cable would only stream my porn at 20.. then after realizing that i had to go around witha bat and beat people for stealing my bandwidth.. but its soo simple to pick up a signal.. especially since i live in ny.. i can walk throught mahnattan and pick up a 10 mbit signal with hardly any problem..

**Hometown Hero** · 06-27-2004, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

This isn't meant as an insult, but if you knew anything about cracking, you wouldn't have to ask me the question. And since you are asking the question, there is not enough space here to answer the question.

If anyone is interested though, PM me and I can direct you to some sites where you can learn the basics of hacking and cracking.

Well man I have honestly been doing this sort of thing since I was about 11 years old so more or less no I dont need your explanation. Cracking is an art and what it all boils down to is being familiar with the system you are trying to gain access to. When you know the inn's and out's of an OS/Network then with this intimate knowledge you can go on to exploit variouse security holes in it. I guess, pardon me no flames intended, I was curiouse to see wheather you had the slightest idea what you were talking about. I was expecting to hear you explain the type of recon work you did in order to find these very important details. That or you downloaded some mirracle program from (IMAKOOLHAXOR.COM) and figured you knew the inns and outs of hacking and cracking.

**Hometown Hero** · 06-27-2004, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by doby48

Its easy to access data if a person does not set their security on their firewall correctly. I have some novice friends who haven't paid for intenet access in over a year cause they live in different apparentment buildings and just go off of someone elses wireless network connection. But basically if someone really wants to see what you are doing it is next to impossible to prevent it. I work in security for a large company and try to hack in to find any holes, and there are lots of companies who do this for banks and other places with high security. Heck even the miliary and government pays to have someone try and hack their systems and find the holes. If they are leaving holes open a single individual definatly is. But honestly, they aren't going to put through their efforts to try and track someone for what they consider minor issues like roids. I have a firewall and and also continuously monitor connections to my computer so if there is a hole I will see the person connect and I know what needs to be fixed.

Well put.... those people and "yourself" are called system analyst's. It's an excellent and well paying proffesion. Accessing a corporate network like that of Barns and Noble is an entirely different animal then ripping off your neighbors bandwith. There are several ways to manipulate the settings on your wireless router to make it "Harder" for someone to gain access to your private network, although as she stated.... if someone wants in bad enough... and they really know what they are doing... they will get in. Why the fed's would bother trying to gain access to your home network is another good point. If they wanted to see what you had on your computer... they would bust in and take your hard drive. If they wanted to monitor your online activities.... all of them are logged with your ISP.

**CarbonCopy** · 07-02-2004, 06:25 AM

On the other hand, I believe you can lock down home wireless routers/AP's to a point that is going to keep the wannabe haxorz and amateur night hackers out. Keeping the Feds out is a different story. But, if you are worried, I'd use PGP for your email transactions and PGPDisk to secure your stored data. There is even PGP software that interfaces between your pc and phone to encrypt your conversations. Pretty slick stuff! I'd like to see some chumps break that *ish.

Peace,

CC

Peace,

CC

**CarbonCopy** · 07-02-2004, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by doby48

Its easy to access data if a person does not set their security on their firewall correctly. I have some novice friends who haven't paid for intenet access in over a year cause they live in different apparentment buildings and just go off of someone elses wireless network connection. But basically if someone really wants to see what you are doing it is next to impossible to prevent it. I work in security for a large company and try to hack in to find any holes, and there are lots of companies who do this for banks and other places with high security. Heck even the miliary and government pays to have someone try and hack their systems and find the holes. If they are leaving holes open a single individual definatly is. But honestly, they aren't going to put through their efforts to try and track someone for what they consider minor issues like roids. I have a firewall and and also continuously monitor connections to my computer so if there is a hole I will see the person connect and I know what needs to be fixed.

Cool job you have! What type of firewall do you use at home?

Peace,

CC

**doby48** · 07-02-2004, 12:19 PM

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you

. I've used a few different ones, my favorite software based one though is Kerio and in addition I use Netstat commands to monitor, although Kerio has a monitoring pane which returns the values of Netstat commands. Kerio is cool cause you can chose the application, protocol, local and remote port for each item sepearatly, and can set your trusted zones (although someone hacking with a spoofed common IP like 192.168.0.x would have a free ticket in so I don't recommend it) where as some of the more popular (and sucky) ones are easier for the novice but not as secure like the ever popular ZoneAlarm.

IMHO the key to any good firewally is knowledge and the monitoring.

**bubbathegut** · 07-02-2004, 03:06 PM

they are tracking u right now, i would log off if i were u

**doby48** · 07-02-2004, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by bubbathegut

they are tracking u right now, i would log off if i were u

Yeah, people are being tracked all the time if anyone cares enough to put forth the effort not much you can do about it. If I really wanted to track one persons evey movement I could lowjack their vechicle without them evening knowing. Just depends if you want to live a life of paranoia or just get on with it.

**Elliot** · 07-02-2004, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by doby48

Yeah, people are being tracked all the time if anyone cares enough to put forth the effort not much you can do about it. If I really wanted to track one persons evey movement I could lowjack their vechicle without them evening knowing. Just depends if you want to live a life of paranoia or just get on with it.

you can lo jack me.... ::awaits the macing::

**doby48** · 07-03-2004, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Elliot

you can lo jack me.... ::awaits the macing::

Knew I could count on a good come back from you Elliot

**Dally** · 07-03-2004, 11:48 AM

sounds similar to checkpoint firewall one ... what a amazing firewall that is.

**max2extreme** · 08-17-2004, 11:42 AM

I didnt read ALL the replies, but if it wasnt already said, you should also log into your router and supply a range of IP addresses that your wireless will allow to connect (of course your normal ip range should include your computer's ip (which if using DHCP, find that range and put it in the router)).

And for those who already said it, wireless makes it usually easier for people to get in because not many do security. You can take your wireless ready laptop around your neighborhood, scanning, and get on someone else's network pretty easily.

-max

**arthurb999** · 08-18-2004, 07:59 AM

hmmm... well I just got a wireless router as well. Firewall feature is on. I turned on the WEP encryption and created a password to get on the network. I also set it up so only the MAC addresses of the my two computers can connect. Only two computers at a time can connect. I also made up a funky name for my network and turned off the SSID broadcast after I set up the notebook... I have Zone Alarm Pro on both computers as well...

Is there anything else I can do to prevent outsiders from getting in?

LM1332 · 08-18-2004, 01:47 PM

No, because you are still using the internet. The only advantage you get is wireless part but then again its a minimul advantage because its really slow

Originally Posted by UrbanLegend

I recently bought myself a wireless internet router, and it works really well. I was wondering if it made things harder for the feds when it comes to tracking internet activities. What do you guys know or think?

-Thanks

**weightshead** · 08-18-2004, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by arthurb999

hmmm... well I just got a wireless router as well. Firewall feature is on. I turned on the WEP encryption and created a password to get on the network. I also set it up so only the MAC addresses of the my two computers can connect. Only two computers at a time can connect. I also made up a funky name for my network and turned off the SSID broadcast after I set up the notebook... I have Zone Alarm Pro on both computers as well...

Is there anything else I can do to prevent outsiders from getting in?

nope thats about as good as you can do. for hardening _your wireless_ system.

a dedicated linux/iptables machine statefully filtering inbound/outbound traffic rather than relying on 'onboard pc firewalls'. is a good idea to up the level of security, but you need to know your stuff to set it up...

i woulnt worry about it too much as physical access to the machine is more likely from "government officials"

**weightshead** · 08-18-2004, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by LM1332

No, because you are still using the internet. The only advantage you get is wireless part but then again its a minimul advantage because its really slow

actually the standard 11Mbps is very likely to be higher bandwidth than the outbound cable/dsl/adsl connection - unless hes on somekind of OC pipe

so not "really slow"!

LM1332 · 08-18-2004, 10:35 PM

haha isnt really close range though?

Originally Posted by weightshead

actually the standard 11Mbps is very likely to be higher bandwidth than the outbound cable/dsl/adsl connection - unless hes on somekind of OC pipe

so not "really slow"!

**weightshead** · 08-19-2004, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by LM1332

haha isnt really close range though?

close range?

as long as you have a good connection being 1 metre or 20 metres away from your wireless access point wont noticably affect the "speed" of your connection.

LM1332 · 08-19-2004, 04:18 AM

20 meters is not good though. From the box where internet gets hooked up to my room in my house its about 20 if not more. Hmm nuh ill just stick to my basic cable. DSL sucks btw

Originally Posted by weightshead

close range?

as long as you have a good connection being 1 metre or 20 metres away from your wireless access point wont noticably affect the "speed" of your connection.

**weightshead** · 08-19-2004, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by LM1332

20 meters is not good though. From the box where internet gets hooked up to my room in my house its about 20 if not more. Hmm nuh ill just stick to my basic cable. DSL sucks btw

ok make it 200m (and use a pringles can to amplify the signal) the fact is that the microwaves used to trasmit the information travel _very_ fast, its essentially no different than having 200m of cat 5 cable in terms of speed...

LM1332 · 08-19-2004, 01:35 PM

haha alright, alright you win

Originally Posted by weightshead

ok make it 200m (and use a pringles can to amplify the signal) the fact is that the microwaves used to trasmit the information travel _very_ fast, its essentially no different than having 200m of cat 5 cable in terms of speed...

**arthurb999** · 08-19-2004, 02:00 PM

I have wireless B and use the WEP encryption and the speed seems good to me...

**HolidayStyles** · 08-19-2004, 11:42 PM

I didnt even really bother reading the above - but a wireless interent connection - imo is easier to hack then the hardwired.

2 simple programs is all you need - although - it may take a few days

**angelxterminator** · 08-20-2004, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by HolidayStyles

I didnt even really bother reading the above - but a wireless interent connection - imo is easier to hack then the hardwired.

2 simple programs is all you need - although - it may take a few days

brute forcing a WAN would be a very long and tedious process. HAHAHA my neighbor next door happens to have a linksys wireless, and i have my WAN, but i have 512bit wep, his isn't even encrypted. lemme tell ya i've had some serious fun with his comp. Especially since he has a net server running IIS, the MOST insecure software microsoft has ever created