Contreversial Experiement

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06-02-2004, 01:40 PM
Lozgod

Contreversial Experiement

I am gonna use myself as a guinea pig this cycle. I am sold on the late Dr. Atkins's lifestyle. This cycle is gonna be done while eating High Protein/Low Carb. Don't try to talk me out of it, I am not a newbie, but I want to see if I pick up less fat along the way.

Regular old Deca/Test/Dbol jump/Winny close-out/PCT cycle.

I am using homebrewed gear. I am looking to start by 6/10/04.
Before my first workout I will get all my stats.
Height
Weight
BF%.
I want to see if the diet works on AAS.

After reading his books and stumbling across something that is called The Anabolic Diet (do a search online) which is 70% fat, I believe fat is not the enemy. Protein intake will be high so I have my muscle building material. Bodyfat will be used as fuel since less than 100 grams of carbs are consumed a day, I will try to stay under 75 but 100 is my max, so it will be burning as I grow. Fat will supply the bulk of the calories. Primarily monounsaturated fats. Hopefully it will all workout and won't be a wash, but I have to see if this works for my own curiosity. It goes against the grain I know, but thats how change comes about. People say to hell with the norm!

Wish me luck.
06-02-2004, 01:45 PM
elicotton

Keep us posted. Are you referring to Dr. DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet? If so, he advocates a cyclical ketogenic diet. Will you be having any high-carb days during the week?
06-02-2004, 01:49 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by elicotton

Keep us posted. Are you referring to Dr. DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet? If so, he advocates a cyclical ketogenic diet. Will you be having any high-carb days during the week?

No high carbs during the week. Yes thats the diet I was refering to.
06-02-2004, 02:00 PM
SwoleCat

You're not going to do a planned re-feed?

Atkins style approaches are not suited for bb'ers, or those wishing to drop fat and KEEP/ADD lean mass, so remember that w/your experiment. Half of the battle of keeping/attaining lean mass tissue falls into the post-workout time-frame. Protein/fat is not going to accomplish this.

Again, please experiment as you have said you have already made up your mind, but w/all that gear it seems a shame to utilize it with such an approach. You're totally nullifying half of what could be a great body composition change.

Also, when you come off the gear and enter PCT and re-introduce carbs (where you will have to), oh boy, watch out!

~SC~
06-02-2004, 02:00 PM
rambo

How is the diet you are doing different than the one we basically have stickied above.
06-02-2004, 02:11 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

You're not going to do a planned re-feed?

Atkins style approaches are not suited for bb'ers, or those wishing to drop fat and KEEP/ADD lean mass, so remember that w/your experiment. Half of the battle of keeping/attaining lean mass tissue falls into the post-workout time-frame. Protein/fat is not going to accomplish this.

Again, please experiment as you have said you have already made up your mind, but w/all that gear it seems a shame to utilize it with such an approach. You're totally nullifying half of what could be a great body composition change.

Also, when you come off the gear and enter PCT and re-introduce carbs (where you will have to), oh boy, watch out!

~SC~

I appreciate the input....but heres the question I raise and I feel I must answer for myself.

What do carbs do that fat can not do? Carbs=energy, fat=energy. Glycogen=energy, bodyfat=energy. Glycogen #1 energy source, bodyfat back-up energy source. All I will be doing is switching up the energy source. I will be 100% honest on my updates. If it doesn't work out at least it's cheap homebrew and not high priced gym gear. I have faith in it.
New information has a tendency to create reactions in people, especially when the old way works.

People once thought anyone was crazy that claimed the Earth was round, it certainly appeared flat, but low and behold it was round.

In the paleolithic era the primary diet was animal, plant food was scarce, and the evidence shows that the were lean and muscular. Granted there has been some evolution since then, but we are equipped to sustain on whats available. Thats why we can be meat-eaters, vegans, vegatarians, or whatever, and still survive. The only people that really pay the price are the processed food eaters.

So if the evidence (my gains, BF%, strength) sais it doesn't work I will be satisfied and will let everyone know, however if it goes the other way, I will be satisfied and let everyone know.
06-02-2004, 02:18 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambo

How is the diet you are doing different than the one we basically have stickied above.

It is different because I will be not cutting dietary fat. Despite common knowledge the fat found in beef and pork is mostly monounsaturated. It gets a reputation for being mostly saturated but that info is wrong. It is high in saturated but it is mostly made up of mono.

More and more evidence is coming out saying saturated fat may not be as bad as once thought. The replacement fats like margarine, and vegatable fats which are high in trans-fatty acids are worse for you than butter and lard. So there really isn't enough evidence to say stay away from it.

On a whole different note, the Framington study is showing that those that consumed the highest amounts of saturated fats in the forms on eggs, butter, and meat have the lowest incidences of heart attack and obesity.
06-02-2004, 02:20 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozgod

The replacement fats like margarine, and vegatable fats which are high in trans-fatty acids are worse for you than butter and lard.

I wont be eating deep fried foods cooked in lard by the way. Don't want anyone to make that mistake. lol
06-02-2004, 02:30 PM
bad_man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozgod

It is different because I will be not cutting dietary fat. Despite common knowledge the fat found in beef and pork is mostly monounsaturated. It gets a reputation for being mostly saturated but that info is wrong. It is high in saturated but it is mostly made up of mono.

More and more evidence is coming out saying saturated fat may not be as bad as once thought. The replacement fats like margarine, and vegatable fats which are high in trans-fatty acids are worse for you than butter and lard. So there really isn't enough evidence to say stay away from it.

On a whole different note, the Framington study is showing that those that consumed the highest amounts of saturated fats in the forms on eggs, butter, and meat have the lowest incidences of heart attack and obesity.

Who's advocating this?

I say you go balls to the wall and consume half of your calories from whey shakes and the other half from flax oil!! (not really)
06-02-2004, 03:02 PM
elicotton

Loz - Have you thought about posting a diet log? Since full blown Atkins is unusual fo bb, I think it would be interesting to see how it goes. I've tried a similar approach and "failed" with it, in that I had to add more pw carbs, but I had some unusual reactions to the diet anyway. Also, I was not juicing.

Good luck Bro!
06-02-2004, 03:08 PM
LeanMeOut

So your going to use a Pro/Fat meal even for PWO??

Good luck man

<>
06-02-2004, 03:25 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by elicotton

Loz - Have you thought about posting a diet log? Since full blown Atkins is unusual fo bb, I think it would be interesting to see how it goes. I've tried a similar approach and "failed" with it, in that I had to add more pw carbs, but I had some unusual reactions to the diet anyway. Also, I was not juicing.

Good luck Bro!

Like I said I know it goes against the norm. It may not work in principle but I want to see if it works in practice. It takes energy and protein to build muscle. All I am doing is replacing the energy source. Using fat as an energy source will lower insulin release with out lowering IGF-1 (according to Dr. Atkins Age-Defying Diet Revolution). Insulin is what pushes fat in to fat cells. Lower insulin equals lower fat storage. Dietary fat dosen't cause the same spike in insulin that carbs do. It barely causes a spike at all. So fat does make sense as the optimal fuel if you are trying to avoid getting fatter. Thats why obese people become diabetic. They have so much fat that the body stops releasing insulin in order to avoid storing anymore fat. As a result the sugar in their blood becomes elevated. The dody intentionally dosen't use it.

A diet log isn't a bad idea either. I will do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

So your going to use a Pro/Fat meal even for PWO??

Good luck man

<>
06-02-2004, 04:20 PM
SwoleCat

CAPS...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozgod

What do carbs do that fat can not do?

THEY REPLACE MUSCLE GLYCOGEN AND SHUTTLE AMINOS INTO THE MUSCLES WHICH IS THE FIRST STEP TO RECOVERY. THIS IS A HUGE, DID I MENTION HUUUUUUUGE KEY IN ATTAINING LEAN MASS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE AAS YOU ARE USING. FATS DO NOT DO THIS. AS WELL, CARBS STIMULATE T4/T3 CONVERSION, LEPTIN LEVELS, ETC, SOMETHING FATS DO NOT DO. SO, YOU HAVE NO METABOLISM SLOW DOWN WHEN CARBS ARE UTILIZED WHEN THEY CAN ONLY SERVE TO HELP YOU.

Carbs=energy, fat=energy.
IN DIFFERENT FORMS, YES. ONE IS USED AT ONE HEART-RATE, ONE AT ANOTHER. ONE IS 4KCALS PER GRAM, ONE IS 9.

Glycogen=energy, bodyfat=energy.

FAR DIFF FORMS OF ENERGY. BODYFAT IS USED FOR ENERGY IN KETOSIS OR AFTER 20-25 MINS OF CARDIO A.M. AT THE APPROPRIATE H.R. MUSCLE GLYCOGEN IS FAR DIFFERENT.

People once thought anyone was crazy that claimed the Earth was round, it certainly appeared flat, but low and behold it was round.

BAD COMPARISON. I SHOULD HAVE ALSO STATED THAT I KNOW ABOUT 40 PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO DO THIS, AND IT PALED IN COMPARISON TO THE BEFOREMENTIONED METHODS. SO, I ALREADY KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE.

Like I said, it's really no sweat off my balls that you are doing this, as this IS YOU. You just asked for input, and you have it. You'll have to do this for yourself and see.
06-02-2004, 05:56 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

CAPS...

Like I said, it's really no sweat off my balls that you are doing this, as this IS YOU. You just asked for input, and you have it. You'll have to do this for yourself and see.

Well that is exactly the answer I was looking for. No one has ever told me about the amino acid shuttle thing. Not once it is brand new news to me. It seems somewhat important in massing up too. hmmmmmm. Gives me something to think about. I am trying to find away to avoid all that bulking cycle fat. I have a hard ass time loosing it. You may of unmade my mind up on my carb levels, but I still want to avoid the 6-700 grams a day people eat.

How many carbs do you think will give your muscles sufficient glycogen without creating an environment to store body fat?
06-02-2004, 06:03 PM
LeanMeOut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozgod

Well that is exactly the answer I was looking for. No one has ever told me about the amino acid shuttle thing. Not once it is brand new news to me. It seems somewhat important in massing up too. hmmmmmm. Gives me something to think about. I am trying to find away to avoid all that bulking cycle fat. I have a hard ass time loosing it. You may of unmade my mind up on my carb levels, but I still want to avoid the 6-700 grams a day people eat.

How many carbs do you think will give your muscles sufficient glycogen without creating an environment to store body fat?

Dude.... you'll be fine if you bulk correctly. Remember, the cleaner you eat the less fat you will accumulate during a bulk. **** if you eat clean enough on AAS even when trying to bulk you might not store fat at all. Remember, your body on AAS uses your calories a little more efficiently then when not on AAS. However, that whole you need 6-7000 calories while on a cycle is total BS>.... everyone is different. Hell I can gain lean mass at 2900 calories, others have to go with 5000 to gain a pound a week. Just know your body, and do what works best for you. Research some threads in this forum on bulking diets, and see the critiques and advice they have been given. Then divise your own. I mean honestly if you really want to go low carb then fine.... Eat carbs for breakfast, PWO, & PPWO and eat the rest pro/fat, and just keep the calories at 600 a meal for 6 meals. THen you will have 3600 as a starting point. Adjust to your size etc.... and see what happens. Remember, in this game it is all about what works best FOR YOU. Not anyone else.

<>
06-02-2004, 06:13 PM
Lozgod

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Dude.... you'll be fine if you bulk correctly. Remember, the cleaner you eat the less fat you will accumulate during a bulk. **** if you eat clean enough on AAS even when trying to bulk you might not store fat at all. Remember, your body on AAS uses your calories a little more efficiently then when not on AAS. However, that whole you need 6-7000 calories while on a cycle is total BS>.... everyone is different. Hell I can gain lean mass at 2900 calories, others have to go with 5000 to gain a pound a week. Just know your body, and do what works best for you. Research some threads in this forum on bulking diets, and see the critiques and advice they have been given. Then divise your own. I mean honestly if you really want to go low carb then fine.... Eat carbs for breakfast, PWO, & PPWO and eat the rest pro/fat, and just keep the calories at 600 a meal for 6 meals. THen you will have 3600 as a starting point. Adjust to your size etc.... and see what happens. Remember, in this game it is all about what works best FOR YOU. Not anyone else.

<>

That might not be a bad idea. I might make some adjustments along those lines.
06-02-2004, 06:15 PM
LeanMeOut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lozgod

That might not be a bad idea. I might make some adjustments along those lines.

Glad to hear it.... don't waste your hard earned gear by eating wrong :)

If you want help make a diet and post it, I am sure we can all help you come up with something to try out.

<>
06-02-2004, 08:04 PM
SwoleCat

Yeah, or do a keto approach and only have carbs in your pwo meals....even if it's only 50-60 grams in each meal. Just something to support lean mass acquisition, to get that process started. W/out it, you will lean out w/the diet and the cardio, but as far as lean mass it'll d*mn sure leave you saying to yourself, "I only got these results w/all that gear?"

~SC~
06-04-2004, 11:03 PM
savagebeast

Loz, like you said, fat stores don't replenish glycogen stores...only carbs do. The logic to use fat stors as a primary fuel sorce sounds good in theory but for a guy wanting to bulk/lean up on the 'J' isn't the most realistic. Of course, you've heard this a 1000 times and it sounds like you know what you're talking about so good luck.

Another thing about glycogen stores, if they're not fully replenished (due to lack of carb ingestion) you are going to lose quite a bit of strength (yes you'll increase some strength due to the juice but it may actually negate the benfits of it). I recommend that you ingest carbs after your workout as this is the most important time to replenish glycogen stores. If after that you want to carb deplete then go for it (of course this will probably take you out of a state of ketosis). If you're worried about excess water gain/fat gain, then simply alter your stack and you could get the most of the AS, your diet and your workouts. Just a thought...
06-05-2004, 01:47 AM
Lozgod

Thanks for all the input and what everyone is saying is starting to sink in. I am gonna do the carbs PWO. Primarily sweet potatoes, apples, and replacement meals. I have always grabbed an apple out of my bag after changing at the gym, then shoot home and eat a protien/complex carb. I was gung ho at first but counter-productivity isn't my goal.

However on a revamped theory, I am reading alot about fat, not olive oil, but pork, beef, etc. fat, and it has alot of benefits so I will leave that in the diet, not in massive amounts because my favorite protein sources are eggs and tuna. They are my staple protein. Cheap and effective. Well thanks again for the input. I love AR. Not a bunch of childish antagonising. Just bros helping bros, and ladies too, don't want to discriminate. :)
06-05-2004, 07:15 AM
ANABOLIX2

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

You're not going to do a planned re-feed?

Atkins style approaches are not suited for bb'ers, or those wishing to drop fat and KEEP/ADD lean mass, so remember that w/your experiment. Half of the battle of keeping/attaining lean mass tissue falls into the post-workout time-frame. Protein/fat is not going to accomplish this.

~SC~

Dont know maybe I might give the Atkins a go for builking as he did die at 18 stone so who knows.