I gained strength and cut at the same time

**dalcowbag** · 07-05-2004, 08:48 PM

he guys. i was over at Big dog BB and saw a thread a several "vets" siad it was impossible to cut and keep your strength without AS. well last time I cut I couldnt afford to drop ne strength b/c of my commitments to my football program. ne who, i was able to cut down pretty good (my pics are in the diet forum just do a search) in 2 months and my strength actually increased. the thread over there just pissed me off b/c they sounded like all the AS had gone to there brain. I am here to say that you can infact do both at the same time without AS. What I did was combine a cutting diet with a bulking one. here it is

i did cardio 5 times a week, but never had a day off. I.E. every day i was either doing cardio, lifting, or both, no off days.

on all of these days my first meal was pro.carb no matter what (whey and 1/2 cup oatmeal)

On days i did only cardio my only carbs came in meal one

on sundays i had 2 carbs meals (meal 1 and meal 5)

everynight my b4 bed meal was whey and flax

i dont know if i just got lucky, b/c i didnt do much trial and error, i jjust started to cut up and gain strength

not saying this would work for nebody but it did for me and i just wanted to share

-DCB-

**LeanMeOut** · 07-05-2004, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by dalcowbag

he guys. i was over at Big dog BB and saw a thread a several "vets" siad it was impossible to cut and keep your strength without AS. well last time I cut I couldnt afford to drop ne strength b/c of my commitments to my football program. ne who, i was able to cut down pretty good (my pics are in the diet forum just do a search) in 2 months and my strength actually increased. the thread over there just pissed me off b/c they sounded like all the AS had gone to there brain. I am here to say that you can infact do both at the same time without AS. What I did was combine a cutting diet with a bulking one. here it is

i did cardio 5 times a week, but never had a day off. I.E. every day i was either doing cardio, lifting, or both, no off days.

on all of these days my first meal was pro.carb no matter what (whey and 1/2 cup oatmeal)

On days i did only cardio my only carbs came in meal one

on sundays i had 2 carbs meals (meal 1 and meal 5)

everynight my b4 bed meal was whey and flax

i dont know if i just got lucky, b/c i didnt do much trial and error, i jjust started to cut up and gain strength

not saying this would work for nebody but it did for me and i just wanted to share

-DCB-

I hear ya.....

I keep arguing this point over and over. I did the same thing.... $hit I am currently doing the same thing. When I first started cutting, I actually gained weight and lost bodyfat. It is all about your dietary approach and timing. Think about it.... especially how you did it. If you have the protein in your diet to build muscle, and you are performing proper PWO nutrition and an anti-catabolic meal before bed (whey/flax) why can't you grow at the same time as cutting your bodyfat? Basically you have to get your body to use fat for energy during the day, and then once you blunt lipolysis PWO allow your body to repair and build while you rest. I am not saying that it is possible for all people to gain weight while cutting, but I don't see why you can't atleast maintain your current muscle mass & strength if your diet is perfect. Good post cowbag.....

or DCB rather hah

<<LMO>>

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 09:01 PM

I always thought you needed a calories surplus to build muscle, and a calories deficit to lose fat, hence impossible to do both?

I guess increased strength could be possible since it's not necessarily a sign of increased muscle mass?

**LeanMeOut** · 07-05-2004, 09:04 PM

Is this concept really that difficult for people to understand........

Protein builds muscles. If you have enough protein in your diet you CAN build muscle even at a caloric deficit. Along with EFA intake which promotes lean mass gain as well as aids in fat loss. Now don't get me wrong, you are not going to get huge while cutting or gain a significant ammount of mass, but it IS possible to gain lean mass and cut bodyfat at the same time. And no you don't have to use gear to do it. Your diet must be **** near perfect however.

<<LMO>>

**bad_man** · 07-05-2004, 09:04 PM

Too many people just don't understand nutrition. And who among us can say we also weren't the same way? Think of how most people get told what to do.

If you want to get big, you have to eat a LOT. Everything in sight. 5, 6, or 7,000 calories a day. Don't worry about whether it's chicken or steak or ice cream or weight gainer. Just eat. And don't worry, you'll get fat, but you can't gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat.

Then when you get big (fat) enough, start cutting. Be very restrictive. You'll lose a lot of fat but you'll also lose muscle. Don't worry, that's just what happens. You can't lose fat without losing muscle?

Oh, you want to make this a little easier? Here, try some Winny, anavar , dbol , and test.

I swear, there are a lot of super intelligent dudes on this board and if they spent 1 hour studying nutrition for every 10 hours they studied the effects of steroids , we'd have some biological geniuses.

**dalcowbag** · 07-05-2004, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Too many people just don't understand nutrition. And who among us can say we also weren't the same way? Think of how most people get told what to do.

If you want to get big, you have to eat a LOT. Everything in sight. 5, 6, or 7,000 calories a day. Don't worry about whether it's chicken or steak or ice cream or weight gainer. Just eat. And don't worry, you'll get fat, but you can't gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat.

Then when you get big (fat) enough, start cutting. Be very restrictive. You'll lose a lot of fat but you'll also lose muscle. Don't worry, that's just what happens. You can't lose fat without losing muscle?

Oh, you want to make this a little easier? Here, try some Winny, anavar , dbol , and test.

I swear, there are a lot of super intelligent dudes on this board and if they spent 1 hour studying nutrition for every 10 hours they studied the effects of steroids, we'd have some biological geniuses.

AMEN!!!!!

**LeanMeOut** · 07-05-2004, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Too many people just don't understand nutrition. And who among us can say we also weren't the same way? Think of how most people get told what to do.

If you want to get big, you have to eat a LOT. Everything in sight. 5, 6, or 7,000 calories a day. Don't worry about whether it's chicken or steak or ice cream or weight gainer. Just eat. And don't worry, you'll get fat, but you can't gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat.

Then when you get big (fat) enough, start cutting. Be very restrictive. You'll lose a lot of fat but you'll also lose muscle. Don't worry, that's just what happens. You can't lose fat without losing muscle?

Oh, you want to make this a little easier? Here, try some Winny, anavar , dbol , and test.

I swear, there are a lot of super intelligent dudes on this board and if they spent 1 hour studying nutrition for every 10 hours they studied the effects of steroids, we'd have some biological geniuses.

Man I agree 100000%

This is soooooo true and very very sad

I swear every other post I see is someone asking about cutting and they list what gear they are taking before they list their diet. When will people learn?

<<LMO>>

**dalcowbag** · 07-05-2004, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Man I agree 100000%

This is soooooo true and very very sad

I swear every other post I see is someone asking about cutting and they list what gear they are taking before they list their diet. When will people learn?

<<LMO>>

hell yes man. .with a sound diet you can get crazy results without AS. hell my first month of clean bulking, my gains were as if i WAS on cycle

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 09:27 PM

But if you're in calories deficit stage, wouldn't your body feel it can't afford the luxury of adding more muscle? (When it can't currently maintain your current weight)

If it can't hold on to its fat reserves, won't it feel building and then having to maintain muscle isn't something it can afford to do?

**bad_man** · 07-05-2004, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by LeafsFan

But if you're in calories deficit stage, wouldn't your body feel it can't afford the luxury of adding more muscle? (When it can't currently maintain your current weight)

If it can't hold on to its fat reserves, won't it feel building and then having to maintain muscle isn't something it can afford to do?

It's not simply the number of cals you eat dude. It's what makes up those calories (protein/fat/carbs), in what combinations you eat them, and the timing you eat them.

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

It's not simply the number of cals you eat dude. It's what makes up those calories (protein/fat/carbs), in what combinations you eat them, and the timing you eat them.

I agree. It just sounds counter-intuitive but I guess it's possible.

**bad_man** · 07-05-2004, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by LeafsFan

I agree. It just sounds counter-intuitive but I guess it's possible.

Stick around. You'll understand.

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Stick around. You'll understand.

Btw, I'm no expert but I'm guessing you do need more than just protein to build muscle? (ie: carbs) So if you're cutting and burning all the carbs you're eating (no excess since you want to lose weight), what would be the building blocks of the muscle?

**bad_man** · 07-05-2004, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by LeafsFan

Btw, I'm no expert but I'm guessing you do more than just protein to build muscle? (ie: carbs) So if you're cutting and using all the carbs you're eating (no excess since you want to lose weight), what would be the building blocks of the muscle?

Protein IS what builds muscle. I suggest you read the stickies at the top of the diet forum on both cutting and bulking. They'll answer a lot of your questions. Fell free to post follow up questions after you'ver read them.

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by bad_man

Protein IS what builds muscle. I suggest you read the stickies at the top of the diet forum on both cutting and bulking. They'll answer a lot of your questions. Fell free to post follow up questions after you'ver read them.

I've read all 3 - They didn't really cover the specifics of how the body builds muscle while cutting.

I always thought Protein was the main building block for muscle - Are you saying it's the only one?

**dalcowbag** · 07-05-2004, 10:16 PM

protein is the only thing that builds muscle, but it needs things like carbs/fats to shuttle the protein to the muscle to build it and digest it. focus on macro breakdown rather then kcal counting

**LeafsFan** · 07-05-2004, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by dalcowbag

protein is the only thing that builds muscle, but it needs things like carbs/fats to shuttle the protein to the muscle to build it and digest it. focus on macro breakdown rather then kcal counting

Right, that's where I get confused.

If you're cutting, aren't you in a carb/fat shortage?

I guess I was wrong to think the body would want to use the carb/fat for energy, rather than use it to build muscle?

**Elliot** · 07-05-2004, 10:23 PM

I agree with what was said here, however it is very uncool draging another board into this..

**Elliot** · 07-05-2004, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by dalcowbag

protein is the only thing that builds muscle, but it needs things like carbs/fats to shuttle the protein to the muscle to build it and digest it. focus on macro breakdown rather then kcal counting

carbs/fats shuttle protein?! ::Pulls out the tub of crisco::

**dalcowbag** · 07-05-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Elliot

carbs/fats shuttle protein?! ::Pulls out the tub of crisco::

throw in some high carb white bread for "DOUBLE SHUTTLEIZATION!!!"

**Elliot** · 07-05-2004, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by dalcowbag

throw in some high carb white bread for "DOUBLE SHUTTLEIZATION!!!"

**bad_man** · 07-06-2004, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by LeafsFan

Right, that's where I get confused.

If you're cutting, aren't you in a carb/fat shortage?

I guess I was wrong to think the body would want to use the carb/fat for energy, rather than use it to build muscle?

For part of the day, carbs are limited. This helps prevent fat storage, and when cardio is performed, helps to increase fat loss.

During another part of the day (i.e. after lifting) your muscles are primed to receive a maximum amount of protein. Carbs (i.e. dextrose) are used at this specific time to shuttle a maximum amount of protein to your muscles in a short period of time. When done correctly, this will be performed with no excess fat storage.

Add these things together and you can see how it's possible to gain muscle while cutting. If fact, this can eliminate much of the cutting/bulking phases all together.

**pyschomav** · 09-06-2005, 10:43 AM

When you say using a little help? Which would be best for helping...Winny Anavar , Dbol or test? I am currently on a NOcarb diet Mon-Fri and weekends is a pretty much a freeforall...in moderation? I do hard cardio everyother day. and lift almost everyday. Any comments?

Originally Posted by bad_man

Too many people just don't understand nutrition. And who among us can say we also weren't the same way? Think of how most people get told what to do.

If you want to get big, you have to eat a LOT. Everything in sight. 5, 6, or 7,000 calories a day. Don't worry about whether it's chicken or steak or ice cream or weight gainer. Just eat. And don't worry, you'll get fat, but you can't gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat.

Then when you get big (fat) enough, start cutting. Be very restrictive. You'll lose a lot of fat but you'll also lose muscle. Don't worry, that's just what happens. You can't lose fat without losing muscle?

Oh, you want to make this a little easier? Here, try some Winny, anavar, dbol, and test.

I swear, there are a lot of super intelligent dudes on this board and if they spent 1 hour studying nutrition for every 10 hours they studied the effects of steroids, we'd have some biological geniuses.