09-16-2004, 12:24 PM #1Junior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
PWO Nutrition disputed- Any validity ?
This is the article I read
A New Approach to Post-Workout Nutrition
When dextrose, maltodextrin, and all other refined carbohydrates (white bread, donuts, bagels, soda etc.) enter the system, blood glucose levels are increased at a fast rate, reaching a high peak and putting the body in hyperglycemia mode. What happens next is an equally strong insulin response from the pancreas, to bring blood sugar back to normal.
At first glance, this combination has merit as far as bodybuilding goes; the sugar rush, high insulin levels, and almost ready-to-use protein source, all contribute to ending the stress and trauma the body has been going through during the workout. Insulin is indeed one of the system's most anabolic hormone [to muscle and adipose tissue] and the sugar can be used to replenish glycogen stores, thus switching the body from catabolic to anabolic mode, where recovery and growth can start taking place.
But looking further down into this process, we can see that there might be a better way to gaining lean body mass. The carbohydrates we ingest cannot stay in the bloodstream for long, otherwise we'd die of prolonged hyperglycemia. They have two different pathways;
1. They are directed by insulin to muscle tissue, and stored in the form of glycogen to fuel the muscles, assisting the recovery process, and give them the fullness we all seek.
2. They are directed by insulin to fat tissue, and stored as adipose in the cells, making the waist bigger and the chest "flabbier."
In most cases, it is a combination of both, depending on the amount ingested, the type of carbohydrate, as well as the system's sensitivity to insulin.
Eating refined carbohydrates day-in and day-out reduces the sensitivity of the insulin receptors in the muscles, just like a continuous use of stimulants such as caffeine, ephedrine etc. As time goes by, you need bigger quantities of it in order to feel a difference.
In the case of insulin sensitivity reduction due to frequent ingestion of high glycemic carbohydrates, the pancreas would be required to pump out more and more insulin in order to lower blood glucose. This translates into a higher ratio of glucose being fed to adipose tissue rather than muscle glycogen. In other words, being less insulin sensitive promotes higher fat gain and lower rate of muscle building.
In the case of sedentary people eating a diet comprised of processed foods, saturated fats and sugar, this lowering insulin sensitivity can lead to type-2 diabetes and obesity.
By taking a different route than the whey and dextrose/maltodextrin approach to post-workout nutrition based on the concept of insulin management, we can ultimately improve the muscle building process over time.
An alternative source of carbohydrate would be one that is unrefined, slightly fibrous, and nutrient-dense. Examples would be natural oatmeal, sweet potato, wild rice etc.
When ingested, these foods take longer to break down due to their complex structure, fiber content, and wholeness. Insulin is increased at a slower rate, sugar levels remain stable, without skyrocketing then dropping, body stays in anabolic mode longer due to absence of insulin spike, muscle glycogen is replenished, and most of all, there is a far smaller risk of nutrient spillover.
This translates into:
- A higher ratio of muscle-to-fat being built
- Absence of blood glucose crash after insulin is secreted, and hence absence of a catabolic period
- Reduced risk of carbohydrate spillover and hence fat gain
- Better insulin sensitivity in the long run
- Better satiety from eating a whole meal rather than a shake that is gulped down in a few seconds
- Better overall health
- Improved cholesterol levels and ratio (essential for AAS users)
An example of such a post-workout feeding could comprise;
- Oatmeal (quantity dependent on goal - ~110g dry weight would be a good start) or sweet potato
- Egg whites (7 to 10) or another source of low fat animal protein
- Protein powder (could be mixed in the oats [whey, or a blend of whey, casein, and egg])
It is preferable to avoid eating fat with this meal, as a combination of insulin and fat is is not ideal as far as nutrient partitioning is concerned.
The inclusion of slower digesting protein instead of a whey-only approach serves at keeping a steady amount of amino acid levels in the blood after training. Whey digests at such a fast rate that a certain portion of it might turn into glucose/lipid providing a source of energy to the body instead of being used as a building block for tissue repair.
A meal should be eaten 1.5 to 2.5 hours later to keep the recovery process going.
Finally, it is important to note that lifting weights does not deplete glycogen stores like cardiovascular exercise does; having a well-structured nutrition plan for the whole day is more important than putting all one's focus on post-workout nutrition alone.
09-16-2004, 12:49 PM #2AR Hall of Fame
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
I wrote 3 responses to this @ my forums if you are interested.
09-16-2004, 02:38 PM #3
So what is that post mainly saying, that you should eat complex carbs instead of simple ones like dex? This goes against everything i have read on AR since i have came here. From what i have read, you want a fast insulin spike to get the protein into your muscles ASAP. then, PPWO will do what this post is talking about, slowly releasing the protein into your body... Is that about right? is this post wrong or is it just a different approach to pwo....This post has officially confused the hell out of me.
Last edited by )(PimP JuicE)(; 09-16-2004 at 02:41 PM.
09-16-2004, 03:52 PM #4
The post is just an "opinoin" derived from physiology. I say opinion, because there are no references/publications/studies to support his translation claims. I am going to do a little research myself as well as one of my colleagues is going to do a presenation next week on PWO nutrition.
09-16-2004, 04:06 PM #5
I'm interested in reading what you posted. However, where is "I wrote 3 responses to this @ my forums if you are interested"... @ my forums?
where is that?
09-16-2004, 04:47 PM #6
yeah dood hook us up with the link
09-16-2004, 07:10 PM #7AR Hall of Fame
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
09-16-2004, 10:21 PM #8
Whoever wrote it knows just enough physiology to sound like he knows what he is talking about, but many of his statements are unsupported by the literature or just plain wrong assumptions.
I suppose you could say he is right if you assume you are going to have only one meal pwo, shake or solid food, in which case a regular meal would indeed be appropriate.
But the advice given by swole and others here is to have 2 pwo meals, one shake followed by solid food within 1-2 hours, which provides a steady supply of nutrients at the proper time.
The idea that a 50-100 g serving of dextrose post-workout will lead to insulin resistance is ridiculous. You are dramatically increasing your insulin sensitivity when lifitng weights. How many people slam cokes all day long and never develop diabetes? And most people dont even work out.
And lifting weights doesn't deplete glycogen stores like cardio? If your cardio is depleting glycogen stores you need to evaluate your cardio routine.
09-16-2004, 10:31 PM #9AR Hall of Fame
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
U have never been more correct!
Originally Posted by longhornDr
09-17-2004, 10:42 AM #10
I also disagree with this statements, like said above from what i have learned from AR it sounds good if you only have one meal but we have 2-3 after working out.
I also thought the cardio depletes glycogen stores more than lifting. LOL Thats some serious ass cardio man....
09-17-2004, 12:31 PM #11
I cant find a register button on that forum swole?
nevermind, one of those small buttons in the corner.
09-17-2004, 06:29 PM #12
There is no disputing post workout nutrition is by far the most important meal of the day for building muscle. Right after working out your muscles are in a catabolic mode. That means ATP and creatine phophate levels are depleted, muscle glycogen levels are reduced, and the rise in cortisol during exercise remains elevated thirty to sixty minutes following a workout. Not only does cortisol levels dramatically rise but other catabolic hormones rise causing muscle damage for many hrs after training. . In other words, your muscles get beat to the ground and left to die during intense weight training. In order to avoid this state of fuel and muscle depletion, its imperative to have a protein/high glycemic carb drink immediately following your workout. In a study by Esmarck and his collegues, they found that when a carb /protein drink was given immediately following exercise, muscle size increased 8 percent and strength improved 15 percent. When the supplement was given two hours later, there was no muscle hypertrophy (growth) or improvement in strength. So again, there is no disputing how important post workout drink is for replenishing glycogen stores faster, increasing protein synthesis and net protein balance, improve muscle mass and speed up fat oxidation. As for high-gi carbs vs. complex carbs, high gi carbs (dextrose) are highly recommended during this period is because high they are absorbed more rapidly and produce a stronger insulin response than slow digesting complex carbs. Bottom line is a high gi carb/protein drink in liquid form is the most effective way for turning on the muscles’ anabolic machinery.
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