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  1. #1
    edraven29 is offline Associate Member
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    Thumbs down are carbs that bad

    I found out by experience on myself that if i cut the carbs to low i will be less pumped.

    I know that you lose a lot of water when you cut out carbs on a diet.

    THe guys at the gym told me to use oil in my protein shake and if i cut carbs to low that this will replace my energy.

    Is this a good idea, they gave me coconut oil, one of them told me that after using it he lost 4 pounds in one month.

    I am a bite confused right now with all these carb cutting and adding oils to protein shakes????

  2. #2
    Billy Boy's Avatar
    Billy Boy is offline Retired Moderator
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    There are two types of carbs simple and complex.If you already know this sorry for repeating it,

    Simple are carbs that have a lot of sugar and are absorbed by the body quickly and will give it a sudden surge of energy.These are used quickly and elevate blood sugar levels.Keep these to a minimum b,c what you don,t use gets stored as fat

    Complex carbs are slowly released into the body over a period of time and are the typical type you need to consume and the body will utilise these as and when it needs them

    I have not heard of putting coconut oil into your shake and I also thought coconut oil had high sat fat but I,m not sure.A lot of people put Flax seed oil in their shakes when dropping carbs and they swear it works.I,ve never done this

    Billy

  3. #3
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Cutting out your carbs

    Cutting out carbs to low can really make me feel like crap. Have you thought about taking some type of Thermogenic fat burner? These are good for loseing b/f but you really need to stay away from them if you have ever had a past history of heart related problems. high blood pressure or ANY TYPE of sezisure disorder. I have in the past used a prduct call Thermongene and only $8 a bottle it is really cheap. You have to be careful, some of these can make you feel real jittery and you may experience a loss of appietite. Thats the main reason I quite taking them.
    Later
    Tobey

  4. #4
    BigWill's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Use flax seed oil and olive oil in your shakes. I cant quite remember about coconut oil, but I dont think you want it. And dont cut your carbs too much or your brain will stop working.

  5. #5
    Billy Boy's Avatar
    Billy Boy is offline Retired Moderator
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    I,ve never used flax seed oil although a lot of people recommend it but as far I can see there is no scientific evidence to back the claims of manufacturers.

    The only oil I use is cod liver oil just to keep the joints a bit more flexable/lubricated

    Billy

  6. #6
    kaiser soze is offline New Member
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    personally I don't like carbs too much.I try to eat only carbs with low GI.

  7. #7
    Improving is offline Anabolic Member
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    The idea I have found with carbs for me is basically take in enough to give decent pumps in the gym and refuel muscle glycogen after the gym. Bottom line is carbs are fuel. Think of them that way and you will see the need to minimize them until needed.

    As far as the coconut oil goes, your trainers at the gym SUCK!

    Coconut oil is perhaps the poorest choice they could have picked. Most people who know anything about fat should know this (especially anyone in a gym working in the "trainer" capacity). Very high in sat. fat. - I think its the oil with THE highest amount)

    If you need to reduce carbs and add fat, opt for flax seed oil ideally, or Canola oil if money is an issue. Flax is best though, with the highest amount of Omega 3 Fas.

    Hope that helps,
    Improving

  8. #8
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    This may sound elementary in nature, but why add fat when you are trying to lose fat?
    Is that a way of convincing the body that because you're taking in fat regularly, it doesn't have to "hold onto" bodyfat?????
    Besides, fats are not used in intense muscular contractions, carbs are.
    I kinda think of it like one of the other members just noted, that carbs should be thought of as fuel and to use them as such. Do not try and run the engine on empty and do not over fill the tank.

  9. #9
    Improving is offline Anabolic Member
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    I'll give that one a go.

    Basically if one is trying to lose fat, and one reduces their calories drastically, primarily from only one macronutrient source (carbs in this case) it will cause the body to adjust to the deficit and reduce the metabolic rate. The body begins to think it is starving and hangs on to bodyfat since it is not getting its most ready supply of fuel; carbs.

    One idea in carb cutting (without going on a total ketogenic diet) is to replace the carb calories with calories from another macronutrient source. I always bump my protein when I cut my carbs, but also bump my "good" fats (allthough very modestly).
    The idea is to keep in a caloric deficit (much smaller-less drastic), but dont provide the body with excess "quick fuel" (carbs). This slowly trains the body to also use fat for fuel in a manner slightly like that of the ketogenic diet on a MUCH smaller scale.

    Lastly, it's an old but true saying in the bodybuilding/nutrition world, "any bodybuilder worth his salt knows its not fat that makes you fat, but excess carbs".

    Good fats in the form of flax/Omega 3 are very important also for maintaining many of the bodies processes - transport of fat soluble vitamins/mins/antiox, testosterone production, protein utilization, and so on.

    Hope this helps a bit,
    Improving

  10. #10
    Sicilian30's Avatar
    Sicilian30 is offline Respected Member
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    Actually I have been told by many that fat (taken in moderation) will increase testosterone , and let's face it the body needs a certain percentage of fat. Like someone else said, Carbs can quickly turn into fat. Why don't you try a energy pill just before workouts if you are on a low carb diet, seems to work for me. Or I will drink a carb drink just before I work out, to give me energy, cause I know I will burn it off. Proven fact the more muscle you have the more calories and carbs the body will burn to maintain muscle. Personally, I have noticed a big difference since I lowered my carbs. I am one of the unfortunate people (being Italian) and loving pasta, carbs are my weakness. I have always had that "pot belly", but once I finally cut my carbs down, it is almost gone now in 3 weeks of intense training. My stomach has never looked so flat even when I was a teen.

  11. #11
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    Good post by "Improving"~
    Also good post by my Italian brother Sicilian~

    I know that carbs are my weakness also, but I'm thinking of cutting them BACK not OUT. Probably just enough during the day to get me through my workouts and that's it.
    I'm thinking of going with a 2,000/200/150, cal/carb/pro split.
    What do ya think?
    I'm 6'1",245 and would like to get down under 230, maybe a bit more.

    And...
    Do you think it would be wise to drop my cals even further for a day every once in a great while? Like 1,000 cals? NOT often, maybe every two or three weeks?

  12. #12
    Tobey is offline Retired IRON CHEF Mod
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    Caloric Intake

    Hey Cleverland S.,
    If I undertand your post correctly, your protien intake is 150 grams per day and your present weight is 245. If this is correct, you really need to increase your protein intake. You should be taking in about 1.5 to 2 grams of protien for every lb. of body weight that you presently have. I would increase it to at least 365.5 grams a day give or take a few grams here and there. You may have to do a liitle more cardio at this ratio though, the excess protein could be turned into bodyfat, however you need this ratio to make moderate gains in lean muscle mass. What's your training schedule? Depending on your goals, your caloric intake looks ok. You appear to be one of the lucky ones who does not have a problem gainning weight.(6'1" at 245 is pretty stout, you ever consider playing football?) You may just need to adjust what you eat to gain the right kind of weight. As far as your love of carbs? You might want to play around with that area a little, if you are not making any gain in muscle mass, fat loss ect, that is the one area that I would cut back on in your case. Good luck and keep us posted of your results.
    Later,
    Tobey

  13. #13
    Sicilian30's Avatar
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    Clev I agree with Toby, you need to increase you protein, but beware, most case studies show that the body can only digest 40-50 grams of protein at one time. So for instance, if you drink a high protein shake, that contains say 60 grams of protein, chances are only 30-40 will be actually used to supply your muscles. What about Aminos? Those are good, body doesn't have to break those down? Carbs, are everyone's weakness, I am sure. I am not saying cut them out, just be aware of what and how much you are ingesting everyday. On my current schedule, I try to make sure my protein is at least 30-50 grams higher than my carb intake a day. This seems to work for me. I take a fat burner for energy, and I have no problems with my workouts. I eat my carbs before lunch, then at night, I limit them to a minimum, maybe 13 to 20 at night, if that much. Sounds like to me you are a pretty big guy, with my ole 5'9" self. Taller people tend to wear fat better than us short folks. Course we all fall prey to the perfection syndrome. Even though you look good to others, may not quite look good enough for yourself. Good luck man... hope this helps.

  14. #14
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    Holy Shit!

    You guys really believe in eating that much protein?!
    Wow!
    You can't eat 350g of protein without going over your calorie limits when trying to diet down.

    I would like to see a diet profile of how I can get 350g of protein in under 2000 cals p/day.
    You really think that'll be beneficial? I mean, carbs are protein sparing too, so as long as there is a balance of some sort, I would assume 150-200g would be good on a diet.

    Thanx for the advice, I'm interested in hearing more.
    Later!

  15. #15
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    I would be willing to eat 1g per pound of bodyweight, but I can't fathom eating any more, unless on some steroid cycle.

  16. #16
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    350 g on a 2000 cal a day diet is possible and it would break down like this

    350g = 1400 cals protein
    100g = 400 cals carbs
    20g = 180 cals fat

    IMO with this diet you will be using protein as well as the carbs for energy following a diet like this.Afterall if you do not have enough carbs for energy your body will use the protein as it is easier to convert than the fat.

    As for the protein stick to 1 - 1.5g per lb of B/W when natural
    On the juice 1.5 - 2g per lb of B/W

    The idea of taking in more protein is to help the muscles repair afterall you are literally ripping them apart.I,m 189lbs and consume around 280-300g a day but my diet is around 3800-4000 a day.I never eat more than 70g of protein in one serving and normally take some protein in every 2 hours.

    Billy

  17. #17
    Sicilian30's Avatar
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    While we are on this subject, how do most of your feel about popping a few Amino's in between meals to get that protein up? I always carry a bottle of Amino's for when I can't eat or I feel my body needs some protein, do you guys do the same, or are Amino's in ya'lls eyes, bad?

  18. #18
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    I don,t feel that i need to take any Amino acids as I get enough from the protein I consume.The only one I take is Glutamine

    Billy

  19. #19
    Improving is offline Anabolic Member
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    First I want to bump what Billy and Tobey have said for you Cardshark. Especially Billy's macro breakdown. I am also pretty carb sensitive and tend to store bodyfat easily when I take in more carbs than protein. Definitely aim for at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight when trying to gain lean muscle. My breakdown is usually about 40-50%prot/30-40%carb/20%fat. This works pretty well for me even when bulking. Bottom line is you MUST cut carbs and bump protein if you want to lose the fat.

    Secondly, about the only digest 30-40g protein per sitting; that ONLY APPLIES IF PROTEIN IS EATEN BY ITSELF (in the absence of carbs or fat). MUCH more protein can be used/absorbed when protein is consumed with other macronutrients.

    For Cleveland, the most important thing you need to remember when taking in your carbs are; get some quality low GI slow burning starchy carbs at breakfast (or at least 2 hours prior to workout), and dont forget your high GI fast burning carbs immediately post workout. For the rest of your carb intake try to focus on more fibrous low GI veggies and such for the important nutrients/vits/mins and fiber content and definitely curb carb intake as the day progresses.

    Let me know if I can help out any more,
    Improving

  20. #20
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    Cleverland

    read my Protein post and it may help to break it down about the carb use and how it goes hand in hand with protein.Also what Improving says about different proteins and their absorption rates is worth noting

    Billy

  21. #21
    Billy Boy's Avatar
    Billy Boy is offline Retired Moderator
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    I know you probably already know this but it is good to have a reminder sometimes about why we need things in our diets.

    Carbohydrates supply the body with the energy it needs to function. They are found almost exclusively in plant foods, such as fruits, vegetables, peas, and beans. Milk and milk products are the only foods derived from animals that contain a significant amount of carbohydrates.

    Carbohydrates are divided into two groups, simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. Simple carbohydrates, sometimes called simple sugars, include fructose (fruit sugar), sucrose (table sugar), and lactose (milk sugar), as well as several other sugars. Fruits are one of the richest natural sources of simple carbohydrates.

    Complex carbohydrates are also made up of sugars, but the sugar molecules are strung together to form longer, more complex chains. Complex carbohydrates include fibre and starches. Foods rich in complex carbohydrates include vegetables, whole grains, peas, pasta, potatoes and beans.

    Carbohydrates are the main source of blood glucose, which are a major fuel for all of the body's cells and the only source of energy for the brain and red blood cells. Except for fibre, which cannot be digested, both simple and complex carbohydrates are converted into glucose.

    The glucose is then either used directly to provide energy for the body, or stored in the liver for future use. When a person consumes more calories than the body is using, a portion of the carbohydrates consumed may also be stored in the body as fat

    Hope what with this post and the protein post it clears it up a bit!

    Billy

  22. #22
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    I don't want to bulk up!
    That is the farthest thing from my mind.
    I need to lose some fat so I can go on a bulk cycle first.

    thanx for the posts bros!

  23. #23
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    I know but you need both carbs and protein to be able to grow and to diet

    Billy

  24. #24
    cleverlandshark2001 is offline Junior Member
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    Yes Bill,
    I agree with you totally.
    I just think that as long as my cals are kept below maintenance, if I have a balance of carbs and proteins, I should be able to reach my goals. There are just so many views on ratios of carbs-proteins. I know from my own experience that if I drop my carbs too low I just can not train with the weights. Also, I have never gotten much out of jackin up my proteins really high.
    Thanx for keeping me posted on the information you have, I find it helpful.

    Also, one other way I've heard it explained form a "higher carb, medium protein" ratio is that carbs are the fuel that keeps our metabolic fires stoked. As long as you don't overwhelm that fire and just feed it small amounts, the fire rages! Protein, with it's complex structure, is akin to putting wet wood on the fire. It will burn eventually but takes more time and energy to burn and forces the metabolism to slow a bit.
    Now, I know that is getting picky, but it makes some sense.

    Again, I'm not trying to argue, I feel like all information is something worth discussing and I like the info you've posted.

    Later bro.

  25. #25
    Billy Boy's Avatar
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    Ok we all know the info and to sum it up look at it like this

    Any excess cals you don,t use will be stored as FAT whether those excess come from Protein,Carbs,Fat

    As you have said drop your cals below your maintance and you will lose weight combine this with cardio

    People with low carb diets sometimes use an ECA stack to help with the low energy levels.If you go on a low carb diet most stack up for one day during the week/weekend

    All you can do is try different ways and see what works best for you but you look as if you have the jest of it

    Good Luck
    Billy

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