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  1. #1
    vestax's Avatar
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    Preserving muscle mass while cutting & having trouble with daily caloric

    I want to start cutting ASAP but I have a few questions.
    1) Although it is not the goal, is it possible to increase LBM (rather than preserve) as well as increase strength while cutting?

    My stats: 19, 165 lbs, maybe about 14-15% bf looking to get to <10%

    I've been bulking for a while so this is what I plan on doing let me know if I have the right idea:

    wake up and have 5g of glutamine + ephedrine & caffeine (can't take asprin)

    Walk to gym (15mins speedwalking) then jump on the eliptical and go for 45mins - 1hr--> I don't use the handlebars that move back and forth if that makes a difference.

    Meal 1:
    Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal

    Meal 2:
    Protein shake/Lean Protein (2 tbsp flax

    Meal 3:
    Veggies, Lean Protein

    Workout

    Meal 4:
    PWO Nutrition

    Meal 5:
    Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal.

    Meal 6:
    Shake with Flax

    **I took this from the unofficial how to cut thread and cannot figure out how many grams of protein/carb/fat/ etc. I am supposed to have in a meal and what the daily caloric intake should be.

    Im running Test E right now on week 9 of 14 and I am sick of bulking I would rather look cut. I have already put on 25lbs and I don't think any of it was fat to be honest.

    Can somebody help me out with this? Thanks broooos

  2. #2
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    bump?

  3. #3
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    putting on lean mass while cutting would be possible under 2 conditions IMO
    1st- using AAS
    2nd- if your totally new to lifting, body will respond very highly to the givin stimulas of resistance training and grow while getting lean from a VERY CLEAN Diet of a very slight caloric deficite w/ light cardio in morning 60%MHR
    ok now to critique your diet
    Need fallowing INFO: your Heighth would be nice, as well as what type of meat/food you eat plus how HOW MUCH you eat of it.
    Meal 1:
    Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal, i would do pro/fat here especially if its post cardio that way you dont have to wait 45min to eat but like 25 or so. i.e. 6-8 egg whites and 2 full eggs.

    Meal 2:
    Protein shake/Lean Protein (2 tbsp flax) Try to use real food here if possible keeps metabolic rate UP

    Meal 3:
    Veggies, Lean Protein, maybe some fat free cottage cheese here since you dont have a real carb source.

    Workout

    Meal 4:
    PWO Nutrition 2:1 (Dex/Pro) ratio make sure its whey

    Meal 5:
    Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal. Go high GI carb Yam/Rice/potato etc ... oatmeal is kinda low if you use oatmeal i would add lil sugar or something but thats just me

    Meal 6:
    Shake with Flax
    unless its Casein protein i would go w/ tuna or another lean meat for a longer lasting protein source why is absorbed w/in 30min if its isolate and abou an hour if its concentrate.
    but yes plz go back over and add in amounts of what you eat and preferrably what foods you will be consuming to get best advice
    dont forget to keep that hard earned muscle keep cardio at about 65% MHR or so GL!

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    trippyx is offline Junior Member
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    good idea running/walking as soon as you wake up

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by trippyx
    good idea running/walking as soon as you wake up
    running bad... it will EASILY put you over your target heart rate which will cause your body to utilized protein for fuel which is BAD. especially if he is ECAing he could just walk up an incline and hit his heart rate which is about 127-133 bpm i would go for the lower end of that say 125 even.
    Last edited by taiboxa; 04-16-2005 at 09:46 AM.

  6. #6
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Props to taiboxa for helping out like this in this thread. Very good info!



    ~SC~

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwoleCat
    Props to taiboxa for helping out like this in this thread. Very good info!



    ~SC~
    ROFL dont thank me- thank the painkillers that make me NOT WORRY about doing school work, but instead make me care about AR!
    By the way.. i have a perscription k thnx several actually!

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    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    You go boy!!!!!



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  9. #9
    vestax's Avatar
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    Hey thanks a lot for the input, very much appreciated- so this is what I sort of put together let me know what you think, im 5"7 or 5"8 by the way;

    1) Wake up, 5g glutamine + 24-32mg ephedrine, 150mg caffeine, sometimes advils if im sore from training the day before

    2) Cardio on the eliptical for 60 minutes @ 65% MHR (so for 19 year old, 205 - 19 * 0.65 = roughly 121 bpm)

    3) Wait 1 hr

    4) Eat protein shake: 40g whey + (1/2 cup oats) 20g carb

    5) Protein shake: 40g protein + (30g flax seed soil) 30g fat

    6) Eat Chicken (how many g uncooked?) + Veggies (how many g and what kind are best)

    7) Weights (typical routine is 2-3 hard sets per muscle group like this;
    first set - 10 reps (dying by 10th rep)
    econd set - 8 reps (dying by 8th rep, bc weight increased 10%)
    third set - 6 reps (dying by 6th rep, bc weight increased by 5%)
    fourth set - 10 reps of same weight as first set, or 12 if i can make it

    8) PWO immediately after, 50g protein + 100g dextrose (i found the dextrose was making me gain too much fat, do I need this much dextrose?)

    9) 1/2 cup of white rice + steak (how many g uncooked, usually a cheap cut but I try and strip away any fat if its there)

    10) Can of Tuna (30g) + 1 Tbsp full fat mayo (think thats 15g fat)


    Also I am on Test E 500mg/wk now, should I take letro to try and drop some water or will it hinder my gains (or weight loss)

    Thanks for all the help bros

  10. #10
    taiboxa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    Hey thanks a lot for the input, very much appreciated- so this is what I sort of put together let me know what you think, im 5"7 or 5"8 by the way;

    1) Wake up, 5g glutamine + 24-32mg ephedrine, 150mg caffeine, sometimes advils if im sore from training the day before

    2) Cardio on the eliptical for 60 minutes @ 65% MHR (so for 19 year old, 205 - 19 * 0.65 = roughly 121 bpm)

    3) Wait 1 hr

    this is meal 1 4) Eat protein shake: 40g whey + (1/2 cup oats) 20g carb use real food if possible i would switch meal 1 and 2 IMO

    here is meal 25) Protein shake: 40g protein + (30g flax seed soil) 30g fat way too much fat use 1-1.5tbls Flax

    6) Eat Chicken (how many g uncooked?) + Veggies (how many g and what kind are best) Chickn g uncooked dunno. i would say do about 5-6oz cooked its about 8gpro per oz. Dark green veggies best, i like asparagus personally, but theres broccoli, brusselsprouts stuff like that.
    7) Weights (typical routine is 2-3 hard sets per muscle group like this;
    first set - 10 reps (dying by 10th rep)
    econd set - 8 reps (dying by 8th rep, bc weight increased 10%)
    third set - 6 reps (dying by 6th rep, bc weight increased by 5%)
    fourth set - 10 reps of same weight as first set, or 12 if i can make it
    look in work out section for some good workout splits/routines.

    8) PWO immediately after, 50g protein + 100g dextrose (i found the dextrose was making me gain too much fat, do I need this much dextrose?) protein should be .25g per lb of lean body mass so for you i would say about 35-40gPro so i would do for you in all honesty 35gPro/70dex pwo shake w/ maybe some glutamine and free amino's

    9) 1/2 cup of white rice + steak (how many g uncooked, usually a cheap cut but I try and strip away any fat if its there) dont use steak it has fat which will slow down your protein synthesis thats BAD. try to get about a 70g Carb or so and 40g Pro in this meal. but i dunno you might be able to make it lean enuff to use as a PPWO Someone Correct me plz on this im not quite sure about steak being lean enuff.

    10) Can of Tuna (30g) + 1 Tbsp full fat mayo (think thats 15g fat)
    Good Meal


    Also I am on Test E 500mg/wk now, should I take letro to try and drop some water or will it hinder my gains (or weight loss)

    Thanks for all the help bros
    well if your cutting i woulda went w/ prop by far... for hardness. some people hold more water than others but hey letro should be fine.
    Gear is good for cutting since it will keep you from catabolizing muscle while in a calorie deficite state.
    Good Luck

  11. #11
    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    I really believe that diet plays a vital role in gaining LBM while cutting. THAT is the exact reason why I believe in SC's programs. In 10 weeks, even with a really bad week in the mix, I've gotten leaner and gained a little bit of mass. When I've cut in the past, I lost strength and ended up looking like a twigboy.. not good.

    Definintely follow that diet plan up there, good stuff

    In regards to Steak, it's great for a pro/fat meal. I love my Top Sirloin with veggies. Put a little soy sauce on that and it's my favorite meal of the day.

    You can also check out www.diet-data.com to get nutrition facts on just about EVERY food out there.

  12. #12
    vestax's Avatar
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    So to sort of finalize it:

    1) Wake up, 5g glutamine + ECA

    2) Cardio on the eliptical for 60 minutes @ 121 bpm

    3) Wait 30 mins

    4) Eat protein shake: 40g protein (whey) + 15 g fat (flax seed)

    5) Protein shake: 40g protein + 20g carbs (oats)

    6) Chicken 45g protein + pack of microwaveable vegetables (20g?)

    7) Weights (typical routine is 2-3 hard sets per muscle group like this;
    first set - 10 reps (dying by 10th rep)
    econd set - 8 reps (dying by 8th rep, bc weight increased 10%)
    third set - 6 reps (dying by 6th rep, bc weight increased by 5%)
    fourth set - 10 reps of same weight as first set, or 12 if i can make it

    8) PWO immediately after, 35g protein + 70g dextrose

    9) **need a meal that is 70g carb + 40g pro (any suggestions?)

    10) Can of Tuna (30g) + 1 Tbsp full fat mayo (think thats 15g fat)

    Daily totals:

    230g protein 180carb 30 fat <--- is this right for my height/weight (5"7 1/2, 165 lbs, maybe 15% bf off an estimate)

  13. #13
    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    COUPLE COMMENTS IN CAPS ON #5,6,AND #9.

    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    So to sort of finalize it:

    1) Wake up, 5g glutamine + ECA

    2) Cardio on the eliptical for 60 minutes @ 121 bpm

    3) Wait 30 mins

    4) Eat protein shake: 40g protein (whey) + 15 g fat (flax seed)

    5) Protein shake: 40g protein + 20g carbs (oats)

    REALLY NO NEED FOR CARBS HERE IMO, I'D MAKE THIS A PRO/FAT MEAL

    6) Chicken 45g protein + pack of microwaveable vegetables (20g?)

    NEED A FAT SOURCE

    7) Weights (typical routine is 2-3 hard sets per muscle group like this;
    first set - 10 reps (dying by 10th rep)
    econd set - 8 reps (dying by 8th rep, bc weight increased 10%)
    third set - 6 reps (dying by 6th rep, bc weight increased by 5%)
    fourth set - 10 reps of same weight as first set, or 12 if i can make it

    8) PWO immediately after, 35g protein + 70g dextrose

    9) **need a meal that is 70g carb + 40g pro (any suggestions?)

    I LIKE USING CHICKEN/RICE HERE


    10) Can of Tuna (30g) + 1 Tbsp full fat mayo (think thats 15g fat)

    Daily totals:

    230g protein 180carb 30 fat <--- is this right for my height/weight (5"7 1/2, 165 lbs, maybe 15% bf off an estimate)

    CANT' REALLY ANSWER THAT. CHECK OUT THE BMR CALCUATIONS IN THE STICKY TO DETERMINE TOTAL CAL INTAKE.


  14. #14
    vestax's Avatar
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    Oh ya, and do I replace the PWO with anything or leave it out if I don't do weights that day? And I will be doing cardio probably 7 days a week unless I'm daying, where I will take a day off but usually it doesnt phase me.

  15. #15
    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    Oh ya, and do I replace the PWO with anything or leave it out if I don't do weights that day? And I will be doing cardio probably 7 days a week unless I'm daying, where I will take a day off but usually it doesnt phase me.
    Only do your PWO meals on actual workout days. On non workout days just incorporate one pro/complex carb meal.

  16. #16
    vestax's Avatar
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    Crysomate:
    I switched the pro/carb meal after my workout with pro/fat so do you think I should have two pro/fats in a row?

    #6) Isn't there a bit of fat in chicken thoguh? Maybe if I throw in some natty PB?

    #9) how can I have more steak in this diet?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    So to sort of finalize it:

    1) Wake up, 5g glutamine + ECA

    2) Cardio on the eliptical for 60 minutes @ 121 bpm

    3) Wait 30 mins

    4) Eat protein shake: 40g protein (whey) + 15 g fat (flax seed)

    5) Protein shake: 40g protein + 20g carbs (oats)

    6) Chicken 45g protein + pack of microwaveable vegetables (20g?)prolly lower then that unless it has krappy sugar sauce or carrots/peas/corn which are not wanted

    7) Weights (typical routine is 2-3 hard sets per muscle group like this;
    first set - 10 reps (dying by 10th rep)
    econd set - 8 reps (dying by 8th rep, bc weight increased 10%)
    third set - 6 reps (dying by 6th rep, bc weight increased by 5%)
    fourth set - 10 reps of same weight as first set, or 12 if i can make it

    8) PWO immediately after, 35g protein + 70g dextrose

    9) **need a meal that is 70g carb + 40g pro (any suggestions?) Rice/chickn
    Yam/Turkey <-- MY FAVORITE! potato/fatfree cottage cheese/lean meat

    10) Can of Tuna (30g) + 1 Tbsp full fat mayo (think thats 15g fat)

    Daily totals:

    230g protein 180carb 30 fat <--- is this right for my height/weight (5"7 1/2, 165 lbs, maybe 15% bf off an estimate)
    sadly enuff its almost impossible to cut gain so pick a rout and stick to it.
    try to acquire for your weight about 280g Pro daily while cutting rest looks good. and YOU DOO NEED some carbs pre workout try to consume them approx 2-3 hrs before lifting so which ever meal that would fall into

  18. #18
    vestax's Avatar
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    How many lbs of fat a week do ppl cutting on juice typically drop? I dont care about gaining really I just don't want to lose any strength.

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    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    Crysomate:
    I switched the pro/carb meal after my workout with pro/fat so do you think I should have two pro/fats in a row?

    #6) Isn't there a bit of fat in chicken thoguh? Maybe if I throw in some natty PB?

    #9) how can I have more steak in this diet?
    I'd definitely leave your PWO meals as Pro/Carb

    For 9, There really isn't much fat if you are using boneless/skinless chicken breasts. This would possibly be the ideal place for your steak meal. Since you want the meals to sort of resemble this:

    **CARDIO**
    Pro/Fat - Whey/Flax
    Pro/Fat - not sure what's gonna be here
    Pro/Fat - Steak/Veggies?
    **Workout**
    Pro/Carb - Whey/Dex
    Pro/Carb - Lean Protein (chicken,tuna)/Carb (rice, oatmeal, beans)
    Pro/FAT - whey/flax

  20. #20
    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by taiboxa
    sadly enuff its almost impossible to cut gain so pick a rout and stick to it.
    try to acquire for your weight about 280g Pro daily while cutting rest looks good. and YOU DOO NEED some carbs pre workout try to consume them approx 2-3 hrs before lifting so which ever meal that would fall into
    Just wondering why carbs are needed preworkout? It takes the body 4-5 hours before they are ready to be utlized anyway?

  21. #21
    taiboxa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cry0smate
    Just wondering why carbs are needed preworkout? It takes the body 4-5 hours before they are ready to be utlized anyway?
    not so... depends on type of carb.
    and how its cooked/prepared/density, liquid carbs are absorbed more readily than solid as well as less dense.
    so like the .5mm oats (OldFashion) can be absorbed in about 2-3 hrs depending on what is in you already. carbs = glycogen which is important for anaerobic resistance training.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestax
    How many lbs of fat a week do ppl cutting on juice typically drop? I dont care about gaining really I just don't want to lose any strength.
    when im on gear i aim to lose about 1lb AT MOST a week. but i like to go by feel. pay attention to your stomache to see fat loss and pay attention to your arms to see muscle loss... abs are great guide to watch progress of cutting and your arms are usually first place you will notcie muscle loss at.

  23. #23
    Cry0smate is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by taiboxa
    not so... depends on type of carb.
    and how its cooked/prepared/density, liquid carbs are absorbed more readily than solid as well as less dense.
    so like the .5mm oats (OldFashion) can be absorbed in about 2-3 hrs depending on what is in you already. carbs = glycogen which is important for anaerobic resistance training.
    I guess I'm confused as to why you beleve muscle gycogen would be reduced pre workout. Cardio certainly does not deplete it. I can understand possibly replenishing some liver glycogen, but anyway what do I know.

    JMO.

  24. #24
    carbs-rule is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cry0smate
    Just wondering why carbs are needed preworkout? It takes the body 4-5 hours before they are ready to be utlized anyway?
    If this is true, why do cardio on an empty stomach? According to this idea, one could wake up, eat a cup of oats or some other carb, and do cardio without using the oats.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbs-rule
    If this is true, why do cardio on an empty stomach? According to this idea, one could wake up, eat a cup of oats or some other carb, and do cardio without using the oats.
    lol i wish i was quick wittid to think of that lol i couldnt recall any reason for my statement which is horrible because i have read numerous studies on preworkout nutrition and its importance... F'n'A finals are kicking my asss so badly i can feel my intellect receeding at this very moment.

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