Frustrated

[tough old man]

I surely don't get it. I'm 52 yrs old. 6"1"" tall and weigh 235 lbs. I've been seeing a nutritionist in Los Angeles since April 25th. He wanted to get my B/f down from 16% to about 10%.
He knows That I started a cycle consisting of the following
Days 1-21 Prop 100mg/eod
Days 1-30 IGF oral 40mcg/ed
Days 1-60 TEST E 500mg/ew
Days 1-60 EQ 400 mg/ew
Days 1-60 Deca 300 mg/ew for tore elbow tendons
Cardio Mon-Fri 45 min's upon waking up
Train Mon-Fri 45 min's to a hr.
Diet is very clean. Consist of 99% 30 oz fat free chicken brest, 10oz of lean eye of round. 5 cups of veggies, 2 cups dry oats, 5 cups brown rice, 2 scoops whey and 24 egg whites a day. About 4450 cal's with only 49 grams of total fat.
My problem is i started off at 237 lbs and went down to 233. Now I have steadied my weight at 235 lbs for a little over three weeks. all measurements are the same. No size change anywhere. I just don't get it. He is trying to reduce my B/F and put more lean body mass on me.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to what you would do. I was thinking of adding 8 more oz of brest chicken and 1 1/2 cups more of brown rice. I don't cheat on this diet at all. that would take me to about 5000 cal's keeping total fats to around 9% a day. Carbs would be a little over 600 and protein around 500 per day

Thank You

[ReX357]

I surely don't get it. I'm 52 yrs old. 6"1"" tall and weigh 235 lbs. I've been seeing a nutritionist in Los Angeles since April 25th. He wanted to get my B/f down from 16% to about 10%.
He knows That I started a cycle consisting of the following
Days 1-21 Prop 100mg/eod
Days 1-30 IGF oral 40mcg/ed
Days 1-60 TEST E 500mg/ew
Days 1-60 EQ 400 mg/ew
Days 1-60 Deca 300 mg/ew for tore elbow tendons
Cardio Mon-Fri 45 min's upon waking up
Train Mon-Fri 45 min's to a hr.
Diet is very clean. Consist of 99% 30 oz fat free chicken brest, 10oz of lean eye of round. 5 cups of veggies, 2 cups dry oats, 5 cups brown rice, 2 scoops whey and 24 egg whites a day. About 4450 cal's with only 49 grams of total fat.
My problem is i started off at 237 lbs and went down to 233. Now I have steadied my weight at 235 lbs for a little over three weeks. all measurements are the same. No size change anywhere. I just don't get it. He is trying to reduce my B/F and put more lean body mass on me.
Does anyone have any thoughts as to what you would do. I was thinking of adding 8 more oz of brest chicken and 1 1/2 cups more of brown rice. I don't cheat on this diet at all. that would take me to about 5000 cal's keeping total fats to around 9% a day. Carbs would be a little over 600 and protein around 500 per day

Thank You

Ewwwwwwwww... you ain't gonna drop no BF with those numbers. You'll put on lean mass but you won't drop fat. To drop fat, you have to go under your caloric maintenant level which is probably around 2600-2700 calories clean for a guy your size. Also, you have to do cardio at 70% your MHR in the morning on an empty stomach.

Read the cutting sticky at the top of this forum for more info.

[tough old man]

well that exactly what he's attempting to do. He's trying to put on LBM and drop my B/F. He claims he can do it with this diet he has me on.

[alphaman]

Trying to drop bf on that cycle makes no sense to me.

[SwoleCat]

I'd lay out exactly what my cardio is, what type of cardio you do, all of your meals and what they consist of (what you eat after cardio and after weights), etc. Then you'll want to check your numbers, as it doesn't appear you'll lean out on that intake. Also, those compounds are, well, that's another story.

~SC~

[tough old man]

Cardio he's had me change from my eliptical to a brisk walk at 5:30 am for 45 mins'
Here is the diet:
Also let it be noted I have no carbs after 7 pm and every Saturday My total carb intake is only 144 carbs.
Here is my Diet at the present time

Mon thru Fri and Sun...Sat basically the same but no Rice or oats
7am
12 egg whites
1 cup dry oats
1 scoop whey

10am
10 oz 99% breast chicken
2 cups brown rice
1 1/2 cup veggies

1pm
2 scoops whey
2 cups dry oats
2 cups nonfat milk

4pm
10oz eye of the round
10oz red potato
1 1/2 cups veggies

7Pm
10 oz 99% breast chicken
2 cups brown rice
1 1/2 cup veggies

10pm
12 egg whites or 2 scoops of whey
1 1/2 cups veggies.
3000 mgs Fish oil

that's it and nothing added to that except some ketchup on the piece of beef.
Like i sais he is trying to add lbm and drop B/F. This diet is not what he started me off at. It had less carbs in it and after three weeks took me up and took the protein up addind a couple of xtra oz to the meals with the chicken

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ewwwwwwwww... you ain't gonna drop no BF with those numbers. You'll put on lean mass but you won't drop fat. To drop fat, you have to go under your caloric maintenant level which is probably around 2600-2700 calories clean for a guy your size. Also, you have to do cardio at 70% your MHR in the morning on an empty stomach.

Read the cutting sticky at the top of this forum for more info.

yup, you'll have to find out what your daily caloric intake is then adjust it so it's sub maintance, only way to drop BF.

[tough old man]

Well like i said I have been at 235 ln=bs for 4 weeks this coming Sunday. So i think i found that out already.
Ok lets forget for a sec that I'm seeing a nutitionist. I want to add more lbm and not add any B/F. SO here's the same ? again. Should I add 300-500 more clean cal's a day. I guess that what I really was trying to get to on my firdt post. I'm tired of sitting at the same weight.

PT

[HOLLYWOOD]

i would do 100cals at a time.

[HOLLYWOOD]

do this add 100cals per week if your lbs are stale, but every say sunday or whatever take a picture of yourself and if you do not look like you've put on any fat from the previous week and your weight hasnt gone up, add another 100cals and do the same thing, picture, weight, compare the pics to the first pic before adding cals so take a pic right now then up the cals. make sure to take your pics in the exact same environment because lighting will play a huge part in how you look.

[alphaman]

You think it's possible you gained a little water from the test e and the deca ??

[tough old man]

You think it's possible you gained a little water from the test e and the deca??

I'm sure it is. But I'm using IGF oral right now and feel pretty hard. Don't look puffy anywhere

[HOLLYWOOD]

I'm sure it is. But I'm using IGF oral right now and feel pretty hard. Don't look puffy anywhere

intramuscular water retention is a possibility, you're taking compounds that cause a good deal of water retention in most people.

[HOLLYWOOD]

You think it's possible you gained a little water from the test e and the deca??

i dont get y you asked this, he's not gaining any weight...? am i missing something here?

[alphaman]

Maybe he's lost a little bf, but the scale may say the same thing because of the water retention.

[SwoleCat]

That diet is pretty crappy, and I can see why you aren't dropping bodyfat.

~SC~

[taiboxa]

yep need EFA's to aid in fatty acid transportation thus using body fat for fuel theres ur prob

[tough old man]

Again I'm trying to drop or maintain Bodyfat and add a little LBM. Can afford to lose anymore LBM at my age. I found it to be a lot easier to add mass (shitty kind ) then muscle at my age. Here I spent most of the night and this morning trying to come up with something different then my nutritionist has me on. So will this work

Meal 1 7:00 am
4egg whites
2 whole eggs
¼ c dry oats

Meal 2 9:00 am
3 scoops whey
1 cup skim milk
1 tbs olive oil

Meal 3 11:00 am
10oz chicken breast 99% fat free
1 c veggies
1 c pinto beans

12:00 noon Workout

Meal 4 1:00 pm
100 gr malto dextrin
3 scoops whey

Meal 5 3;00 pm
10oz chicken breast
1 c veggies

Meal 6 5:00pm
2 scoops whey
1 tb peanut butter

Meal 7 7:00pm
6oz eye of the round
Salad
Fat free dressing

Meal 8 9:00 pm
6 egg whites
4000 mg fish oil

Totals Carbs 261
Prot 414
Fats 67
Calories 3303

[HOLLYWOOD]

yep need EFA's to aid in fatty acid transportation thus using body fat for fuel theres ur prob

yup you need these too, bro just stick to the basics for the diet.

protein:lean meats, shakes(no fat and no carb), eggwhites
carbs: oats,brown rice, yams, dextrose and maltro(PWO)
fat: EFA's

these your body will utilize properly and will give the best results, anythign else you throw in the mix is taking up space in your caloric intake when you could be using one of these staple foods.

use a 45pro%/35carb%/less than or equal to 20%fat

forget all the other stuff, (like beans) and stick to these, also you have to have a cheat meal in there, just one per/week.

[tough old man]

yup you need these too, bro just stick to the basics for the diet.

protein:lean meats, shakes(no fat and no carb), eggwhites
carbs: oats,brown rice, yams, dextrose and maltro(PWO)
fat: EFA's

these your body will utilize properly and will give the best results, anythign else you throw in the mix is taking up space in your caloric intake when you could be using one of these staple foods.

use a 45pro%/35carb%/less than or equal to 20%fat

forget all the other stuff, (like beans) and stick to these, also you have to have a cheat meal in there, just one per/week.

Hell if i can be here all night and morning may as well go for all afternoon and evening. So based on 3300 cal's your 45/35/20 turns out to be
371 grams protein, 288 grams of carbs and 73 grams of fat. So I'll write another and add to this post.

[tough old man]

Does this look better? Diet is for Mon - Sat... cheat day SUNDAY
.......................................carb pro fat
Meal One 7:00 am
10 egg white........................0 35 0
2 whole...............................0 12 10
1 c oats.............................57 12 3


Meal Two 9:30 am
2 scoops whey...................8 44 3
1 cup nonfat milk...............12 9 1
1 tb olive oil.......................0 0 13


Meal Three 12:00 pm
10oz eye of round...............0 60 14
1/2 cup veggies................7.5 1 0.5
1 cup brown rice................50 4 0

Meal Four 2:30 pm
100 gr Malto Dextrin............100 0 0
3 scoops whey................... 12 66 4.5

Meal Five 5:00 pm
Can of Tuna....................... 0 30 3
salad.................................8 1 1
Dressing nonfat 3tb ............12 0 0


Meal Seven 7:30pm
10oz eye of round.................0 60 14
1 cup veggie.......................15 2 1

Meal Eight 9:00 pm
6 egg Whites........................0 21.5 0
1 scoop whey......................4 22 1.5
4000 mg fish oil.....................0 0 4

............................................Carbs. ...........Protein.........Fat
.............................................285.. .............379.5.........73.5
Total Calories 3321....................1140............1518...... .....661
..............................................34.3 0%.........45.70%......19.90%

[HOLLYWOOD]

you still have to drop the milk, salad dressing, things like that contain refined sugars and will make you look soft, and will easily be stored as fat.

cheat meal, not not cheat day.

[HOLLYWOOD]

are you having maltro as a carb meal and not part of your PWO?

[Kärnfysikern]

Am I the only one thinking that if you have hired a nutritionist and he doest give you the results you wanted then just tell him and let him tweak it or find another if he cant.
Changing things behind his back wont help you and it will make it impossible for him to help you.
If you dish out the cash for the service then take full advantage of it.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Am I the only one thinking that if you have hired a nutritionist and he doest give you the results you wanted then just tell him and let him tweak it or find another if he cant.
Changing things behind his back wont help you and it will make it impossible for him to help you.
If you dish out the cash for the service then take full advantage of it.

or stop paying people that dont know what they're doing. if you're not doing a show then there's no reason to hire someone, there's plenty of info on the net and in here. get rid of this guy, seriously.

[tough old man]

Am I the only one thinking that if you have hired a nutritionist and he doest give you the results you wanted then just tell him and let him tweak it or find another if he cant.
Changing things behind his back wont help you and it will make it impossible for him to help you.
If you dish out the cash for the service then take full advantage of it.

I'm gonna drop him. Hell He keeps saying your looking good PT. Well I don't see it thru " Mirrors, scales or Tape measures. I looked at two different photos in the last two weeks of myself and thought i Looked wider in the waist. He keeps changing it. Keep raising the beef portions 2 oz at a time and raised the rice from 1 cup at those meals to two cups.
Ok Hollywood, I'll remove the dressing and this was to be a salad with some form of topping like Vinegar and Olive oil or something. The milk consider it GONE. Just started having milk the last two weeks after not having it for 6 months and i know it's a cheat meal, not a cheat day. My enchillada's are tasting so good right now as we speak.
PT

[HOLLYWOOD]

I'm gonna drop him. Hell He keeps saying your looking good PT. Well I don't see it thru " Mirrors, scales or Tape measures. I looked at two different photos in the last two weeks of myself and thought i Looked wider in the waist. He keeps changing it. Keep raising the beef portions 2 oz at a time and raised the rice from 1 cup at those meals to two cups.
Ok Hollywood, I'll remove the dressing and this was to be a salad with some form of topping like Vinegar and Olive oil or something. The milk consider it GONE. Just started having milk the last two weeks after not having it for 6 months and i know it's a cheat meal, not a cheat day. My enchillada's are tasting so good right now as we speak.
PT

there ya go man, get rid of this guy, make sure you take pics weekly(preferably the last day of the diet, so saturday for you) and research, research adn then research some more and you'll be set.

[tough old man]

there ya go man, get rid of this guy, make sure you take pics weekly(preferably the last day of the diet, so saturday for you) and research, research adn then research some more and you'll be set.

Hollywood you think 3200-3300 cal's broke down the way you said is enough to hold what LBM I have now. Like i said can't afford to lose it at my age. I know at these cal's I'll drop B/F and weight. Anything under 3800, I drop. I just need to be real carefull of not dropping LBM. I'm 6'1" tall and Sitting at 234.5 lbs. Hey after a month today I actually drooped a half lb.

Thanks Bro PT

[Kärnfysikern]

tough old man you have to experiment with kcal and macro's. If you notice you start to lose muscle then just bump something upp. You wont shrivel upp overnight and beeing to afraid to lose LMB means you will never get lean.

But I am confused about your goal. Sometimes it sound slike you want to drop bodyfat, sometimes its sounds like you want to add lean mass. What is it?

[DAVO]

Mmmm.....hgh, its the way forward, its dropping my bf, even my old man is on it!! (65)

[tough old man]

Mmmm.....hgh, its the way forward, its dropping my bf, even my old man is on it!! (65)

I'm on my 21 day of *** nutritions Oral IGF-1 right now

[HOLLYWOOD]

take your lean mass (this means minus your fatty tissue weight) and multiply this by 13.25, if you begin to loose too much BF then add 100cals, if you're putting fat on then minus 100cals, this is weekly, this is why pics are a must, you look at yourself 100x a day in the mirror so it's impossible to see. also y dont you want to loose some BF everybody looks better leaner, weight is just a number, how you look is really what counts, also if you're loosing BF but strength is same of going up then thats perfect i wouldnt worry about it. you're going to have to play around with your cals and macro nutrients to really find out what works for you, i can just give you a ballpark number to work with then it's all up to you tweak it.

[tough old man]

tough old man you have to experiment with kcal and macro's. If you notice you start to lose muscle then just bump something upp. You wont shrivel upp overnight and beeing to afraid to lose LMB means you will never get lean.

But I am confused about your goal. Sometimes it sound slike you want to drop bodyfat, sometimes its sounds like you want to add lean mass. What is it?

Man you think your confussed. **** i couldn't even sleep last night cause of this shit. This Nutri guy was telling me that he was Taking my B/f down to 10-12% and at the same time gonna increase my LBM. Said he's have me within a year or less at the lower B/F and a walking around weight of about 265lbs. When I met him I had just started a cycle and was bulking. Only was on the cycle for a week. No big thing as I had just upped my HRT from 250mg/ew to 500. But he stopped the bulk and said I need ed to drop more B/f. that i was going about it the wrong way. So Here I sit all broken hearted tried to shit but only farted.
Now I forgot one thing...HOLLYWOOD the malto dextrin i just ordered and is to be used as PWO Meal only. they why I have it at 100 grams and 66 grams for protein
PT

[Kärnfysikern]

If I where you I would first do a hardcore cutting diet along with a good cutting cycle.

Then do a clean bulk.

But you cant add serious lmb while beeing scared of adding the smallest ammounts of fat. Or maby it can be done but only by very few people that knows there bodies perfectly.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Man you think your confussed. **** i couldn't even sleep last night cause of this shit. This Nutri guy was telling me that he was Taking my B/f down to 10-12% and at the same time gonna increase my LBM. Said he's have me within a year or less at the lower B/F and a walking around weight of about 265lbs. When I met him I had just started a cycle and was bulking. Only was on the cycle for a week. No big thing as I had just upped my HRT from 250mg/ew to 500. But he stopped the bulk and said I need ed to drop more B/f. that i was going about it the wrong way. So Here I sit all broken hearted tried to shit but only farted.
Now I forgot one thing...HOLLYWOOD the malto dextrin i just ordered and is to be used as PWO Meal only. they why I have it at 100 grams and 66 grams for protein
PT

your PWO shake has to be 50%dextrose/50%maltro, dextrose is an absolute must, 100x more so then maltro.

also you're nutritionsit is a retard, to drop 6% BF and add a significant amount of lean mass at the same time is just not going to happen, to build muscle you must be in a positive caloric intake, to loose BF you must be in a negative caloric intake, also if you want to loose BF you most likely will loose some lean mass, how much you loose is up to you and how well your diet is in check, cardio and training.

[tough old man]

For you Hollywood

Meal One 7:00 am
10 egg whites
2 whole eggs
1 cup oats


Meal Two 9:30 am
2 scoops whey
1 tb olive oil
1/4 cup oats


Meal Three 12:00 pm
10oz breast chicken
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice


Meal Four 2:30 pm
100 gr Malto Dextrin
3 scoops whey


Meal Five 5:00 pm
Can of Tuna
1 cup Romaine Lettuce
1 tb olive oil & red wine vinegar


Meal Seven 7:30pm
10oz eye of round
1 cup veggies


Meal Eight 9:00 pm
6 egg Whites
1 scoop whey
4000 mg fish oil

Total 3307 cal's.....283.5 carbs...374.5 Prot and 75 grams of FAT

[taiboxa]

in green ... yay GREEN!

For you Hollywood

Meal One 7:00 am
10 egg whites
2 whole eggs
drop the oats add one more egg for extra 6gPro and good fats
1 cup oats


Meal Two 9:30 am Real food would be more ideal for metabolic reasons
2 scoops whey
1 tb olive oil Omit fats and go w/ carbs for this meal
1/4 cup oats Up this to .5 or .75 cups


Meal Three 12:00 pm
10oz breast chicken
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice
Perfect make sure Veggies are GREEN, none of that colored krap.

Meal Four 2:30 pm
100 gr Malto Dextrin need atleast 60g Dextrose(its a better nutrient shuddle)
so you want a total of 120 simple carbs i believe not sure how this is going to work w/ your IGF but tradional methoud would be 60gMalto/60gDex/60gPro
3 scoops whey


Meal Five 5:00 pm Not a good PPWO due to fat content which will slow down protein synthesis. Move this meal back or OMIT. Go w/ say 60g Pro meal w/ 60g Simple carbs IE taters or Rice or Yams would be better though they are complex
Can of Tuna
1 cup Romaine Lettuce
1 tb olive oil & red wine vinegar


Meal Seven 7:30pm
10oz eye of round
1 cup veggies
Good.

Meal Eight 9:00 pm
6 egg Whites good
1 scoop whey not ideal its readily absorbed w/in 30-70min which is too fast to help sustain anti catabolic state during sleep, casein or a lean meat alternative would be more suited for this meal.
4000 mg fish oil going to want alteast 15gEFA's for this so your almost 1/4th the way there add maybe a 3/4 tbl of flax here.

Total 3307 cal's.....283.5 carbs...374.5 Prot and 75 grams of FAT

if you havent done so use the harrison benedict formula found in one of the stickies find out ur needed calorie intake then run the modified meal regiment through fitday.com and see what you come up w/ GL!

[taiboxa]

no man your diet is still edited to have you working out around ~1:30 or so...

[tough old man]

ok cool i'm changing things now bro another diet is coming now tai. Fix it up for me bro. I made some changes, not sure if right or wrong. Hopefully it's a little better

Meal One 7:00 am
10 egg whites
3 egg yokes


Meal Two 9:30 am
Can of Tuna
salad
Olive Oil / red wine vinegar


Meal Three 12:00 pm
10oz breast chicken
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice


Meal Four 2:30 pm
3 scoops whey / Water
60g dextrose
60g malto dextrin


Meal Five 5:00 pm
10oz eye of round
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice


Meal Seven 7:30pm
3 scoops whey / Water

Meal Eight 9:00 pm
6 egg Whites
4oz Beef, Turkey...ect
4000 mg Fish Oil
3/4 TB Flax oil

Total Cal's.. 3448...carbs..281...Prot...404.5...Fats....78.5

[taiboxa]

ok cool i'm changing things now bro another diet is coming now tai. Fix it up for me bro. I made some changes, not sure if right or wrong. Hopefully it's a little better

Meal One 7:00 am
10 egg whites
3 egg yokes
Good


Meal Two 9:30 am
Can of Tuna
salad
Olive Oil / red wine vinegar
Good, might want to try to get some more Pro if that can is only 33gPro


Meal Three 12:00 pm
10oz breast chicken
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice
Good

Meal Four 2:30 pm
3 scoops whey / Water
60g dextrose
60g malto dextrin


Meal Five 5:00 pm
10oz eye of round **Need LEAN protein Fat slows down protein synthesis**
1 cup veggies
1 cup brown rice


Meal Seven 7:30pm
3 scoops whey / Water Never have JUST PROTEIN you dont want your body using Protein for fuel... you want it to utilize fat or carb, thus leaving the protein for your muscles to utilize ... and at this time of night your best bet would be Flax w/ this shake or **better yet eat your steak here w/ some veggies.**

Meal Eight 9:00 pm
6 egg Whites
4oz Beef, Turkey...ect turkey has about 9gPro per oz so that would be Good
4000 mg Fish Oil
3/4 TB Flax oil

Total Cal's.. 3448...carbs..281...Prot...404.5...Fats....78.5

DAM CLOSE Good luck