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  1. #1
    24labor's Avatar
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    Thumbs up too much too soon for bulking diet??

    I am 5-10, 165 12-13%bf and I'm bulking up I was just wondering if I am throwing in too much too soon. Let me know if I have too much, I've been on it for about a week so far...... here it is

    Meal one: 7 egg whites, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 cups milk
    P=50 Carb=86 Cal=582 Fat-5

    Meal 2: 4 oz Chicken breast, 2 oz cheddar cheese,green veggies
    P=54 Carb=5 Cal=448 fat-22

    Meal3: (prework out) 2 scoops whey, 1/2 cup brown rice, 1 banana
    P=55 Carb=70 Cal=521 fat-3

    Meal 4: (post) 2 scoops whey, 64g dextrose,
    P=50 Carb=72 Cal=491 fat-2

    Meal 5: (1 hour after post) 4 oz beef, 1/2 cup kidney beans, 225g baked potato, 1/2 cup vegetables(varies)
    P=52 Carb=93 Cal=780 fat-18

    Meal 6: 4 oz chicken breast, 1 cup brown rice, veggies
    P=49 Carbs=77, Cal=574 fat-6

    Meal 7: 4 oz chicken breast, 2 whole eggs, 1 spoon mayo
    P=49 Carbs=0 Cal=454 fat-24

    Meal 8: Before bed 2 scoops casein whey, 2 spoons peanut butter
    P=47, Carbs= 13, Cal=442 fat-22

    Total= P=418 Carb=417 Cal=4300 fat=102

    Any help would be sweet thank you!!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    Not bad, give it 4-6 weeks and see how your body responds. That is the only way to really tell. If you don't like results, raise or lower calories and play with total protein,carb,fat consumption.

  3. #3
    G-Force's Avatar
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    looks ok - if you wanted to be a bit stricter you could take out the milk in meal 1
    its not a great source of protein and contains lots of sugar - add a scoop of whey to your oats instead or some more egg whites

    p.s are you on gear - it is unlikely you need 400g+ protein if you are only 165 lbs

    if i were you i would decrease the pro by 100g and increase the carbs by 100g

    jay cutler only uses 400g pro a day when bulking and he is 300lbs + and on a crap load of gear

  4. #4
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    add a spoon of flax or fish oil.
    The kcal would make me fat and Im around 200ibs but if you have a high metabolism I guess its ok.

    Meal 5 is the one that jumps out to me. Baked potatoes have a pretty high GI and combining that with a steak might not be the best idea. I would personaly drop the beef to meal 6 and use the chicken in meal 5. Not that it will make any major difference when bulking realy. If you tend to fatten upp just drop 500kcal from your diet 50% of those as carbs and the other 50% as fat.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    looks ok - if you wanted to be a bit stricter you could take out the milk in meal 1
    its not a great source of protein and contains lots of sugar - add a scoop of whey to your oats instead or some more egg whites

    p.s are you on gear - it is unlikely you need 400g+ protein if you are only 165 lbs

    if i were you i would decrease the pro by 100g and increase the carbs by 100g

    jay cutler only uses 400g pro a day when bulking and he is 300lbs + and on a crap load of gear
    High protein has the metabolism stimulating advantage. Because of that protein is generaly a better source of kcal than fat or carbs(from a staying lean perspective).

    and milk is after all low gi and the protein in milk is I think the second best(beaten by whole eggs). It has a big impact on insulin release though so its better used pwo or ppwo. But I dont think it should be excluded from a diet because of its benifits.

    ohh btw 24 I dont se any fruits in your diet(except that one banana)?? Be sure to add a few fruits each day. Ditch some brown rise or potatos to make up for the extra carbs from the fruits.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    High protein has the metabolism stimulating advantage. Because of that protein is generaly a better source of kcal than fat or carbs(from a staying lean perspective).

    and milk is after all low gi and the protein in milk is I think the second best(beaten by whole eggs). It has a big impact on insulin release though so its better used pwo or ppwo. But I dont think it should be excluded from a diet because of its benifits.

    ohh btw 24 I dont se any fruits in your diet(except that one banana)?? Be sure to add a few fruits each day. Ditch some brown rise or potatos to make up for the extra carbs from the fruits.

    Actually one point Johan, the insulin release from milk is about on par with anything containing pro/carb. Anything containing carbs and amino's will most likely stimulate more then just carbs. The GI on skim is very very low and if if it does produce a bit more insulin the rise in blood sugar is slow and stable. So it can most certainly be utilized outside the PWO, PPWO timeframe.

  7. #7
    24labor's Avatar
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    Just wanted to thank everyone who helped me out, I appreciate it a lot. I will revise this a little bit here and there thanks bros

  8. #8
    24labor's Avatar
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    I think I want to lower my protein intake which will drop the calories a bit, but after I made some modifications I could only get it to 360. I think 320 would be good unless someone says diffrent. Is there anyway to drop some protein which will lower the calories, but not lowering them below 3200-3300?

  9. #9
    AandF6969's Avatar
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    You really might want to check your numbers again... I'm pretty sure 7 egg whites is not 50g of protein, more like 21-25 and a 4 oz chicken breast is probably around the same. I'd definately make the serving size for the chicken and beef at least 8 oz.


    Quote Originally Posted by 24labor
    I am 5-10, 165 12-13%bf and I'm bulking up I was just wondering if I am throwing in too much too soon. Let me know if I have too much, I've been on it for about a week so far...... here it is

    Meal one: 7 egg whites, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 cups milk
    P=50 Carb=86 Cal=582 Fat-5

    Meal 2: 4 oz Chicken breast, 2 oz cheddar cheese,green veggies
    P=54 Carb=5 Cal=448 fat-22

    Meal3: (prework out) 2 scoops whey, 1/2 cup brown rice, 1 banana
    P=55 Carb=70 Cal=521 fat-3

    Meal 4: (post) 2 scoops whey, 64g dextrose,
    P=50 Carb=72 Cal=491 fat-2

    Meal 5: (1 hour after post) 4 oz beef, 1/2 cup kidney beans, 225g baked potato, 1/2 cup vegetables(varies)
    P=52 Carb=93 Cal=780 fat-18

    Meal 6: 4 oz chicken breast, 1 cup brown rice, veggies
    P=49 Carbs=77, Cal=574 fat-6

    Meal 7: 4 oz chicken breast, 2 whole eggs, 1 spoon mayo
    P=49 Carbs=0 Cal=454 fat-24

    Meal 8: Before bed 2 scoops casein whey, 2 spoons peanut butter
    P=47, Carbs= 13, Cal=442 fat-22

    Total= P=418 Carb=417 Cal=4300 fat=102

    Any help would be sweet thank you!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantz11
    Actually one point Johan, the insulin release from milk is about on par with anything containing pro/carb. Anything containing carbs and amino's will most likely stimulate more then just carbs. The GI on skim is very very low and if if it does produce a bit more insulin the rise in blood sugar is slow and stable. So it can most certainly be utilized outside the PWO, PPWO timeframe.
    Ohh thats cool. So If one where to take pure lactose and consume it would give the proper insulin respons according to gi??

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan

    and milk is after all low gi and the protein in milk is I think the second best(beaten by whole eggs). It has a big impact on insulin release though so its better used pwo or ppwo. But I dont think it should be excluded from a diet because of its benifits.
    johan i have to ask a few things about what you say here

    1. milk is low GI? if it is low GI how does it have a big impact on insulin release?

    2. i am not sure i understand how skim milk can be low GI if the carbs it contains are nearly 100% sugar?


    i am not saying you are wrong (cos i still have a lot to learn) with you i just wanted to find out a bit more

    also one thing i do have to disagree with is milk being the 2nd best source of protein - as well as eggs, there is lean meat (chicken, beef, fish), cottage cheese and whey that i would put ahead of milk

  12. #12
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    Skim milk is very low GI, Lactose is broken down into glucose and galactose by digestive enzymes which fight each other in the intestines for enrty. This is why it is a slow process to digest milk. Making it a very low GI carb source. It has been said that milk has a high Insulin repsonse. It does have a bit higher response than say a plain old carbohydrate, because of the amino's in milk (protein). But that is really not a big deal nor makes a difference because since milk is a low GI carb ans broken down very slowly it causes a slow rise in blood sugar. Much slow than Oats for example. Alot of people seem to havre the whole sugar thing messed up in their thinking. Carbs are sugar. Thats what they are, we value carbs by the rate at which they are digested. Hence the GI Index (Which isn't perfect but its the best we have). So when it says 13g of Sugar per 8pz of milk, it also reads 13g of carbs. Why? Because the end product of each and every carb you will ever eat is glucose. Which is a sugar. Your body cannot survive without it and it will find a way to make it if nessisary (Gluconeogenesis, Ketosis). Cottage Cheese and Whey are both dervied from milk. SO yes Johan is correct Milk is a grea protein source and had a complete spectrum of Amino's.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Ohh thats cool. So If one where to take pure lactose and consume it would give the proper insulin respons according to gi??
    Thats impossible, lactose can only come from milk! The low GI score of Skim is well very low. The only reason you may secrete more total insulin is because of the amino's. But since is a low and steady rise, doesn't matter much at all.

  14. #14
    Kärnfysikern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    johan i have to ask a few things about what you say here

    1. milk is low GI? if it is low GI how does it have a big impact on insulin release?

    2. i am not sure i understand how skim milk can be low GI if the carbs it contains are nearly 100% sugar?


    i am not saying you are wrong (cos i still have a lot to learn) with you i just wanted to find out a bit more

    also one thing i do have to disagree with is milk being the 2nd best source of protein - as well as eggs, there is lean meat (chicken, beef, fish), cottage cheese and whey that i would put ahead of milk
    giantz answered number 1 perfectly fine. There is alot of difference betwen different sugars. When we say sugar we dont mean ordinary table sugar(sacaros). The insulin release is because of the amino acids(giantz explained this in another thread).

    2. If you check any amino acid scoring you will se milk above meat and fish. Amino acid content in cottage chese and milk should be almost identical.

    Eggs is the number 1 natural protein source and milk should be number 2.

  15. #15
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    Considering Cottage Cheese is made from Milk, I'd say they are pretty similar!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantz11
    Thats impossible, lactose can only come from milk! The low GI score of Skim is well very low. The only reason you may secrete more total insulin is because of the amino's. But since is a low and steady rise, doesn't matter much at all.

    well there must be some way to separate the lactose from milk into pure powder form Must be simpe(or not so simple) chemistry.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    well there must be some way to separate the lactose from milk into pure powder form Must be simpe(or not so simple) chemistry.
    Johan, I'm gonne let you try and do that one!!!

    I'll just drink some milk and be one my way

  18. #18
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    ok thanks for clearing that up
    to conclude, today i have learned

    milk as a higher amino rating than meat and whey
    milk is low Gi because of the Lactose
    milk has a lower GI than Oats (wow i wasnt expecting that)
    Amino's cause a rise in insulin (nor was i expecting that) - does that apply to plain ol' amino acid tabs?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    ok thanks for clearing that up
    to conclude, today i have learned

    milk as a higher amino rating than meat and whey
    milk is low Gi because of the Lactose
    milk has a lower GI than Oats (wow i wasnt expecting that)
    Amino's cause a rise in insulin (nor was i expecting that) - does that apply to plain ol' amino acid tabs?
    Nah milk doesnt have higher amino rating than whey. Whey is the best amino source we have in the world. But of the natural unrefined things nature has given us milk should be the second best(eggs beeing king but eggs worse then whey aswell). Not that protein quality makes any difference.

    acctualy oats has a pretty high gi. It has a gi of around 70, sackaros(table sugar) is like 86 and white bread 100.

    Milk has like 40-50 in gi, soybeans around 25.

    So oats is borderline high gi.

    Il let giantz answere the amino acid question

  20. #20
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    G-Force, anything short of straight Fat will cause a rise in insulin . Amino tabs probablt won't but could illicit some response. But a Whey shake for sure will.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    Nah milk doesnt have higher amino rating than whey. Whey is the best amino source we have in the world. But of the natural unrefined things nature has given us milk should be the second best(eggs beeing king but eggs worse then whey aswell). Not that protein quality makes any difference.

    acctualy oats has a pretty high gi. It has a gi of around 70, sackaros(table sugar) is like 86 and white bread 100.

    Milk has like 40-50 in gi, soybeans around 25.

    So oats is borderline high gi.

    Il let giantz answere the amino acid question

    Well, milk is made up of 20% Whey and 80% Casein. So you get both!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantz11
    Johan, I'm gonne let you try and do that one!!!

    I'll just drink some milk and be one my way

    Im not a chemist Im a physicist

  23. #23
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    i see

    apart from one thing - Oats have a High GI?????

    am i missing something - i thought they were one of the lowest on the index
    slow digesting carbs - perfect for bodybuiders right?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantz11
    Well, milk is made up of 20% Whey and 80% Casein. So you get both!

    so milk before bed time then? (80% Casein)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantz11
    Well, milk is made up of 20% Whey and 80% Casein. So you get both!
    yeah so drink your milk

  26. #26
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    milk is for babies according to arnold

    have u noticed that Swole is Anti - milk?

    why is this S.C ? are you there?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    i see

    apart from one thing - Oats have a High GI?????

    am i missing something - i thought they were one of the lowest on the index
    slow digesting carbs - perfect for bodybuiders right?
    oats ARE great. But not because of its gi but because of its fiber content and its micronutrients. Its not to high either and its a easy and good breakfast.

    But as a low gi carb source beans, lentils, brown rice is FAR superior to oats.

    Honestly I dont know why oats have become the standard food among bodybuilders. Its a good food no doubt but its not the best nor perfect.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan
    oats ARE great. But not because of its gi but because of its fiber content and its micronutrients. Its not to high either and its a easy and good breakfast.

    But as a low gi carb source beans, lentils, brown rice is FAR superior to oats.

    Honestly I dont know why oats have become the standard food among bodybuilders. Its a good food no doubt but its not the best nor perfect.
    Oats are great thats why! They taste good too! They are Moderate on the GI Scale, but normally if you eat them with protein you lower that considerably. So its still a good meal!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Force
    so milk before bed time then? (80% Casein)
    You sure can if its a Pro/Carb meal.

  30. #30
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    so oats arent particularly favourable on the GI scale, but the amount of fibre they contain slows down their absorbtion as well as mixing with protein (whites/whey)

    okey dokey

  31. #31
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    Protein will lower the GI of any meal. So say you ate Egg Whites and Oats the total GI score for the meal would be somewhere around 45-50 even though the Oats are close to 70 on the GI scale. So its all good.

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