Pre W/out carbs needed for maximum growth?

[KingMike]

I am been upping calories for a few weeks and I am up to around 3400 calories while still doing cardio. I have been eating carbs before workouts but stregth has been about the same so I swithced it up to this diet a couple days ago just to see how I felt. I know the last carb meal is not ideal but I still feel like I need some carbs a few hours after lifting. The following eating is on Satruday,Sunday,Tuesday and Wednsday. On Monday and friday evening I carb load and on Thursday I cut all carbs out and eat only P/F meals all day while upping saturdated fat to about 50 % daily intake. My calories are always up and down from 3300-4200 down to 2200 on Thursday.

empty cadio at 70% for 35 minutes

2 1/2 whey, 1 tbs. flax and 5 fish oil (450 cal. 48 P, 24 fat)
8 egg whites, 4 whole eggs ( 420 cal. 52 P, 18 fat)
8 oz. chicken breast, 1/4 cup walnuts (400 cal. 48 P, 20 fat)
2 whey, 1 tbs. flax ( 340 cal. 19 fat)
WORKOUT
2 1/2 whey, 96 carb via (smarties) dextrose ( 680 cal. 48 P, 96 carbs)
1 hour later
11 egg whites, 1 scoop whey, grits, boxed macaroni or any low, low fat carb
the equals 100 grams of carbs ( 700-900 cal. 60 P, 100 carbs)
last meal 1-1:30 later
3/4 cup oats, 1 1/2 whey ( 375 cal. 28 P, 40 carbs)

You guys have helped alot and just wanted to see what you thought about this backwards approach to gaining mass (and a little fat).

[KingMike]

Sorry, stats are 6' 183 endo with about 13-14% bf. Want to gain some good size for about 4 months becasue everytime I cut my buddies say I look like I have aids so I thought I need some more size before my cut.

[SwoleCat]

Size before the cutting phase is good, yes, but the reason you end up looking like you have aids may be because you diet/cut in the inappropriate manner. (Losing too much muscle while you do so)

Workout time for me.

~SC~

[KingMike]

Thanks Swole. This may sound dumb but ever since I introduced cardio into my life I have ended up looking this way. A few years ago I only lifted and used calories as my guide and it never failed me. I also ate carbs every meal up until about 5 pm. I think this damn loose skin gets worse the leaner I get. What are the odds of that last meal of oats getting stored as fat?

[mrclark]

You need more REAL FOOD in your diet. I'd only keep whey at no more than 2 times :

1. PWO - pro - carb [ 2 - 1 dex - pro ] OR a low GI carb [ oats + honey - pro ]

2. pro/fat [whey - flax or natty PB] or pro/carb [oats/grits-whey]


Use alternative sources for protein from whole foods in the other meals. Get the macros & calories corrected to keep a solid 50-30-20 or 40-40-20 ratio (C-P-F) and divide them up through your meal plan. Those ratios won't work for everyone, but it's a general guideline. I'll let the others advise....

edit*
oh, you can take carbs any time of the day depending on your goals... Carb sensitivity is possible for some people. As long as it fits in your macro & caloric template w/ proper meal matching (pro-carb & pro-fat and not -fat/pro/carb) you should be ok.

[KingMike]

So while bulking, total calories are what metters. So I could have carbs for 5-6 meals with protein and have my fat in one meal. That would be like 70-80 fat in 1 meal.

[mrclark]

Sorry,no you can break it to maybe 2 pro-fat meals... and the rest as pro-carb (i.e. breakfast/pre-workout.pwo,ppwo) - as an example. You can have even 7 or 8 meals if both your time and calorie needs permit.

Mandatory pro-carbs as you know, should be from pwo & ppwo. 70grams of fat is a bit to have all in one meal - it doesn't have to be just one. My suggestion was just more clean whole foods rather than the extra whey meals.

[Property of Steroid.com]

You need more REAL FOOD in your diet.

My sports psychology teacher at Seton Hall University said the same thing to me, in front of the class, when she saw that 4/6 of my meals were MRP's...

I'll ask you the same thing I asked her:

Please identify (name) the part of the body (the organ or enzyme) that distinguishes "real food" from the kind of food we get from shakes.

What part of the body does that? What metabolic pathway says "fake food" or "real food"?

I have a copy of Grey's Anatomy right next to me, and I can't seem to find it...it's not in my 6th ed. of Human Anatomy and Physiology textbook either...

[SHAOKAHN]

My sports psychology teacher at Seton Hall University said the same thing to me, in front of the class, when she saw that 4/6 of my meals were MRP's...

I'll ask you the same thing I asked her:

Please identify (name) the part of the body (the organ or enzyme) that distinguishes "real food" from the kind of food we get from shakes.

What part of the body does that? What metabolic pathway says "fake food" or "real food"?

I have a copy of Grey's Anatomy right next to me, and I can't seem to find it...it's not in my 6th ed. of Human Anatomy and Physiology textbook either...

This is a very interesting subject Hooker, I would def like the answers/theorys to those questions...

[Property of Steroid.com]

This is a very interesting subject Hooker, I would def like the answers/theorys to those questions...

I suspect we'll be waiting a long time for them....

[Giantz11]

My theory would be whole foods take longer to digest than liquids thus keeping you more satisfied while dieting. Again no proof, just theory.

[SHAOKAHN]

I would assume there would have to be a write-up on the bodys "detectability" of synthetic VS natural compunds...?

I've noticed differences in my own body between high dosages of whey/mrps/etc vs whole foods tuna/chicken the later always being better...but why?

[SPIKE]

This is a VERY interesting point!!

I have the 6th edition also in front of me and can't find an answer


On another note, I understand that on paper a "shake" .vs. solid food may consist of the same amount of calories and have a similar macro breakdown. But I would think that the body would utilize 4oz of Chicken/1 cup of Broccoli/half a sweet potato differently then it would a myoplex shake.
Wouldnt it take longer for out bodies to break down whole foods rather then MRP's?? Therefore keeping them in the body longer giving us enough time to utilize its nutrients??
Ooooooooooor since our bodies natuarly digest every 2-3 hours, that food (MRP or Whole foods) are treated the same????

Great question hooker...........................So what did the teacher say??? I'll ask mine on wednesday...

[Property of Steroid.com]

The only viable answer is that the "WHOLE FOOD" contains additional enzymes that do something (aids digestion)...but thats not to say that your body knows the difference between "real" and "manufactured" food...it simply says that we aren't comparing Apples/Apples...we'd need to add in the enzymes and stuff to the MRP, to compare properly...

[SPIKE]

OK, I've been eager to post this. So hooker, I went to my professor today and asked him exactly what you asked yours. He told me:

"There is no caloric difference between whole foods and MRP's. The only difference is the digestion process of the 2. Obviously you will get more nutrients out of whole foods that's why they take longer to break down, b/c your body takes longer to take what it needs from that food and send it to its applicable regioins the body."


All in all that's pretty much what you said.

I figure by combining the 2 resources (MRP, Whole foods) we will get the most out of it. I try to combine straight Isolate w/ my whole meals. Whey isolate absorbs so dam quick where the combination of the 2 will work out well together.

[xtinaunasty]

hey hooker...what's your major?

[SHAOKAHN]

So, "Too perfect" of a food/nutriton source can result in an undesirable digestion rate(excluding pwo here)...seems common sense, this shows a hole in the effectivness of MRP's...

Unfourtunatly it seems the solution for those who rely on MRP's is adding a whole food buffer...??

-shaokahn-