Just talked to a pro at a gym in Columbus Ohio and he told me that weather you juice or not. A person that has not seriously put on weight need to have atleast 2 serious weight gains segments over a matter of a year or 1 1/2 to get to their potential. He said that most dabble around with gaining and losing 20 pounds during a bulk and cut. He said to take 6-8 weeks and lift like amother and eat 5-600 protein and carbs only prior and after your workout and gain 30 pounds or more, keep it for a month then diet. This is the first pro I have seen and talked face to face with, I guess I am just excited. How much truth is their in what he told me. I am a seriou endo at 184 pounds and around 14 % fat.