Question on amounts/type of carbs needed after workout

[Kärnfysikern]

Lunacy is this a phd exam work(not sure what this is called on english) or are you already a phd?

[Lunacy]

Lunacy is this a phd exam work(not sure what this is called on english) or are you already a phd?

No, I am not in graduate school or working on a phd. I will, however, go back to school one day. My offical title is research assistant and I work with a few PhDs and grad student working on their PhD.

Are you working on a PhD or have one and what kind of research do you do?

Oh, and we call "phd exam work" just working on your PhD and after you get the title of PhD you are a post-doc and do your work as a post-doc for a while until you become, if ever, a PI (principle investigator).

[24labor]

exactly what giantz said. The idea of using other carbs would be to use more healthy carbs then dextrose/malto.

That's what I thought I'll stick to my Dex

[jdh]

well jdh just curious have you tried using low gi carbs pwo?

actually yes i have. a few years back i had my second shoulder surgery. roughly 8 months after that i was back to full strength if not stronger and had more muscle mass then i did before my shoulder got injured. anyway i knew protein and carbs were a must pwo. so for about 4 months i would eat protein and carbs pwo(this was 4 months after the aforementioned 8 month period to recovery). in the form of whey and low glycemic carbs. 90% of the time it was raw oats blended with my protein. anyway in those 4 months i put on about 5lbs of lbm. it was then that i started to do more research and i discovered in a few magazines and websites that its optimal to use high gi carbs pwo. so i thought what the hell and i switched it to dextrose. well in the next 4 months i put on 8lbs of lbm. and i did say lbm, my bf% fluctuated these 8 months only about 2% and id say that i gained about 1% each 4 month period. so the high gi did not lead to greater fat gain. hope that answers your question.

[SwoleCat]

I love my dextrose!!

~SC~

[jdh]

id have to agree swole. whats your take on this subject? do you think high gi carbs like dextrose are more beneficial for pwo then low gi? how do you rate the importance of raising your insuling immeidately post workout with high gi carbs and whey?

[Kärnfysikern]

No, I am not in graduate school or working on a phd. I will, however, go back to school one day. My offical title is research assistant and I work with a few PhDs and grad student working on their PhD.

Are you working on a PhD or have one and what kind of research do you do?

Oh, and we call "phd exam work" just working on your PhD and after you get the title of PhD you are a post-doc and do your work as a post-doc for a while until you become, if ever, a PI (principle investigator).

I would love to be a research assistant. Must be a exitcing job beeing active in research.

Im just working to get my masters of science right now in teorethical physics. But I plan on going into grad school right away when Im done. Astrophysics most probably.

[G-Force]

i was interested to see that consuming carbohydrates during exercise didnt have any effect according to that study

would that include a a cab drink, dex, or a sports drink - i see most people in my gym walking around with them
i dont personally but thats onlt cos i cant be arsed to buy them

[Giantz11]

I think the only real good time to perhaps add a carbohydrate drink it during a really hard leg day. It important to hydrate yourself as well as replenish electrolytes.

[SwoleCat]

id have to agree swole. whats your take on this subject? do you think high gi carbs like dextrose are more beneficial for pwo then low gi? how do you rate the importance of raising your insuling immeidately post workout with high gi carbs and whey?

I've tried both sides, and for me (and evidently the 100's that I help and 1000's I have helped) I recover far better, have less sore-ness the days after, and I get bigger/stronger when I use dextrose in my first pwo meal, followed later by a carb/protein solid meal. (Usually my terriyaki chicken/rice recipe)

Just find what works best for you, and you're good to go.

~SC~

[jdh]

id have to agree with everything swole says, because that pretty much sums it up for me as well. and i have visited his site many times and have seen the pictures and read testimonies so based on that fact that would be the only evidence i would need to go high gi for pwo.

[G-Force]

id have to agree with everything swole says, because that pretty much sums it up for me as well. and i have visited his site many times and have seen the pictures and read testimonies so based on that fact that would be the only evidence i would need to go high gi for pwo.

[xtinaunasty]

[jdh]

(joking)ha ha i saw that coming g-force. i picked up a few things from his site over the past year and just got to give the guy props. he knows his shit

[G-Force]

he does know his shit yes,

[xtinaunasty]

he dose know his shit yes,

he eats it too!! very resourceful

[G-Force]

but Giantz and Johan also know their shit

although i dont think they eat it

[jdh]

well since both of them are trying to hate on me because i dont have science to back it up what i say, i would have to lean towards swolecats knowledge more because he has the clients to back it up. thats fine that they have their little "studies" to post, but thats all they have. i have yet to see any physical proof to back up their ways. but i guess since they can pull up all these studies thats all they need to justify what they have to say.

[Kärnfysikern]

well jdh science doesnt lie. I am not cut and not buff that is for sure. But studies dont lie if they are not done in a way to make them give false results. Do you doubt the medicine you take because the studies on that medicine is done in the exact same manner.

Science prevails above everything else that is my motto in life.

[Kärnfysikern]

and I think if you reread my post you will se that I was nothing but respectfull to you aswell.

and yes one properly done study to me speaks more than 1000 personal experiences.

[Kärnfysikern]

ohh and one last thing. The physical proof is in the study. Its not like they did the study on a test dummy or fake human

[Gassy]

If you looked hard enough you find a study to back up almost any idea.

[Kärnfysikern]

I knew someone would come with a reply like that sooner or later yes maby but if you realy read through the study you can tell what is bullshit and not and when several studies support eachothers conclusions the evidence gets pretty much overwhelming.

The scientific method is failsafe since it constantly corrects itself.

[Giantz11]

If you looked hard enough you find a study to back up almost any idea.

Find one...

[Kärnfysikern]

What I cant understand is why people get so defensive. No one here is claiming dextrose doesnt work. That would be ridicilous.

If you dont trust science or studies that is fine, but dont insult us because we dont rank personal experiences that high. I dont mean this as a offense to anyone. But me, giantz and g-force wants proof, real verifiable, falsifiable, repetable proof.

Can you get cut while using dextrose pwo? Offcourse we never said anything else.

Do you gain good while using dextrose? Offcourse

Do we feel there might be more healthy options that offer no gains difference but health aspects that might be overlooked aswell as a possible slight fat loss advantage? You bet.

Do we feel our position has a solid scientific foundation? Sure thing.

Do we feel personal experience with no way of keeping tabs on all factors and determining what does what is as reliable as studies? No way

[Giantz11]

We should probably put this to rest, my main reason for not spiking is quite as simple as this:


Exercise Effects on Muscle Insulin Signaling and Action
Invited Review: Role of insulin in translational control of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by amino acids or exercise
Scot R. Kimball1, Peter A. Farrell2, and Leonard S. Jefferson1

1 Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey 17033; and 2 Noll Physiology Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802

Protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is modulated in response to a variety of stimuli. Two stimuli receiving a great deal of recent attention are increased amino acid availability and exercise. Both of these effectors stimulate protein synthesis in part through activation of translation initiation. However, the full response of translation initiation and protein synthesis to either effector is not observed in the absence of a minimal concentration of insulin. The combination of insulin and either increased amino acid availability or endurance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis in part through activation of the ribosomal protein S6 protein kinase S6K1 as well as through enhanced association of eukaryotic initiation factor eIF4G with eIF4E, an event that promotes binding of mRNA to the ribosome. In contrast, insulin in combination with resistance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis through enhanced activity of a guanine nucleotide exchange protein referred to as eIF2B. In both cases, the amount of insulin required for the effects is low, and a concentration of the hormone that approximates that observed in fasting animals is sufficient for maximal stimulation. This review summarizes the results of a number of recent studies that have helped to establish our present understanding of the interactions of insulin, amino acids, and exercise in the regulation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle

[Gassy]

Johan, I always repcect your opinions and think you are a smart guy. I have to disagree with you about the scientific method being failsafe. My Mom is a clinical researcher for a huge drug company. It takes at least 7 YEARS of studies and millions of dollars to get a drug approved by the FDA, huge studies. And the research studies are still wrong a lot, viox lawsuits are gonna cost Merk $100's of millions. I understand that these drug companies are crooked and interested in profits, but the point is that studies do show different results, can be misleading and plain wrong all based on who is doing the study and what thier motives are.

[Giantz11]

Johan, I always repcect your opinions and think you are a smart guy. I have to disagree with you about the scientific method being failsafe. My Mom is a clinical researcher for a huge drug company. It takes at least 7 YEARS of studies and millions of dollars to get a drug approved by the FDA, huge studies. And the research studies are still wrong a lot, viox lawsuits are gonna cost Merk $100's of millions. I understand that these drug companies are crooked and interested in profits, but the point is that studies do show different results, can be misleading and plain wrong all based on who is doing the study and what thier motives are.

Whoa dude, terrible comparison. That's pharmacology not quite the same as Physiology.

[Kärnfysikern]

yes but the studies that are misleading is usualy done that intentionaly to push a medicine for approval ect. In other words mostly when there is a financial gain behind it. When it comes to this specific topic there is no financial gain anywhere so the motives of the researches can pretty much be trusted.
And yes studies can be twisted, turned and made to look in a certain way to prove a point. I dont fully agree with many comonly accepted things(like the whole cholesterol hypothesis for instance).

But in this particular case what I have read and understood myself makes sense, but since I am far from educated in nutrition I dont trust my own oppinion totaly either thats why I also go with respted oppinions from for instance trainers that has undergone the rigours studies to get a masters or phd in nutrition. Or just general phds in nutrition not neccesarly involved with bodybuilding.

I might add though that Im glad Im into physics because physics is alot like maths. A study cant lie and live for long in physics cause everything is so easily falsifiable

[Kärnfysikern]

look at it like this

the gym guru might know WHAT works. But the phd can get down into WHY it works and possibly improve on it. That doesnt mean that what used to work suddenly stops working. It doesnt mean that the "what" guy is wrong either(obviously something that works isnt wrong), there is nothing wrong with doing what is proven to work.
It just means that the methods can be slightely improved if one gets down to the science of it all.

No method is perfect, there is always ways to improve. The only way to know for sure how to improve something is through scientific scrutiny.

[collar]

good read...
nice g11 and johan

[jdh]

im going to refer back to swolecat and the fact that he has helped thousands reduce bodyfat and retain muscle while using dextrose for pwo. i dont have a study to back it but isnt the success of thousands worth something?

[xtinaunasty]

i think you're beating a dead horse, jdh...just agree to disagree and keep doin what works for you.

[G-Force]

im going to refer back to swolecat and the fact that he has helped thousands reduce bodyfat and retain muscle while using dextrose for pwo. i dont have a study to back it but isnt the success of thousands worth something?

yes he is successful - but who's to say he couldnt be more successful if he had incorporated low GI PWO - who's to say that he couldnt have seen even more results from the people he has trained?

could you say that? NO
could i say that? NO i couldnt

could swole? i dont know, i cant answer for him, but probably not because he has most likely never tried it

[Kärnfysikern]

jdh. I am in no way trying to take anything away from swole and I think he is a awsome trainer. Offcourse his methods works I have said several times dextrose DO work.

But maby dextrose isnt the best.
There are highely succesfull trainers that use low gi pwo aswell.

Im gonna withdraw from this thread now I dont think nothing else can get out of it realy.

[jdh]

im also withdrawing from this. like i said before to each his own, but dont take to heart every study you read. g-force swole actually responded earlier in this thread saying he had tried low gi.

[Giantz11]

People once thought the world was flat, and also that the earth was the certer of the universe.

[G-Force]

g-force swole actually responded earlier in this thread saying he had tried low gi.

yeah fair enough - i didnt see that first time round

[scrapakilla]

would powdered gatorade be ok as the carb source in the pwo

[superfat73]

wait...so in regard to pre workout meal, how earlier before and what should it consist of?