A secret ingredient

**usualsuspect** · 11-07-2005, 10:11 AM

Like you I eat six meals a day. I seperate my fat and carbs. Morning cardio is a part of my morning routine, along with a cup of coffee (on an empty stomach of course). Yep, I down a protein/carb shake immediately after weight training. Followed by another protein and carb meal about an hour later. I count every macro. 50 grams of carbs, 15 grams of fat....yada yada...

Been doing this routine for the last 2 years with GREAT results. Very happy with the progress I've made. This goes on for about 5-6 months followed by 2-3 months of lean bulking. Basically eating the same clean foods just in bigger portions. Slap on some extra muscle and then start cutting down again. Keep in mind that I genetically have a blocky frame so "bulking" any longer than 2-3 months and focusing on just size completely sabotages my bodybuilding efforts (going for the "X" frame, lean and defined look like most here I suspect).

BUT - over the last 6 months, I've noticied my progress starting to stall. Although the cardio was taking care of the fatloss, and my diet and workouts were "preserving" muscle, I felt like I've been neglecting the muscle building part of the equation for too long. You know...the lean look without that extra pop. Muscles look flat. "I think its time to start bulking mentality" - but that means back to the blocky look. How about running a test cycle and continue cutting up? Good idea!...but unfortunately it was NOT even an option. Just couldn't "do it" with my new job.

Instead I tried something different. And its working great. You're probably even gonna laugh when I tell ya. The trick is I started drinking half of my protein/dextrose shake before stepping foot in the gym. A friend of mine told me he's been doing it for awhile now with great results. I always believed in working out on an empty tank. Eat a protein/fat meal like an hour or two before lifting. That way your glycogen levels are low and the post-workout shake spikes your insulin and restore levels back to normal.

But doing some research on my own (not just hands-on but scientific research as well), I've found the pre-workout shake 1.) Increases nutrient delivery to muscles and spare muscle glyogen and protein. 2.) Limits immune system suppression. 3) Minimizes muscle damage. 4) Sets the stage for a faster recovery following your workout. This was taken directly from "Nutrient Timing" by John Ivy. GREAT book. I was amazed when I found this book. Not only did I see a real-life improvement by following this simple principle but theres actually text-book research data to back up this theory.

I know some might get insulted with this unconvential bit of info. It goes against the grain. After all, everything we learned in the Dieting Section of AR preaches "no pre-workout" shake. I always subscribe to the same theory myself. But I'm telling you....this one works (at least for me). Of course, you gotta try it for yourself and see how it works for you. If your comfortable and content with your progress now, I'd say save this post for possible future reference. But if your looking to spice things up, do yourself a favor and try this one out. It WORKS!

______________________
www.fitnessblueprints.com

**IronFreakX** · 11-07-2005, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by usualsuspect

Like you I eat six meals a day. I seperate my fat and carbs. Morning cardio is a part of my morning routine, along with a cup of coffee (on an empty stomach of course). Yep, I down a protein/carb shake immediately after weight training. Followed by another protein and carb meal about an hour later. I count every macro. 50 grams of carbs, 15 grams of fat....yada yada...

Been doing this routine for the last 2 years with GREAT results. Very happy with the progress I've made. This goes on for about 5-6 months followed by 2-3 months of lean bulking. Basically eating the same clean foods just in bigger portions. Slap on some extra muscle and then start cutting down again. Keep in mind that I genetically have a blocky frame so "bulking" any longer than 2-3 months and focusing on just size completely sabotages my bodybuilding efforts (going for the "X" frame, lean and defined look like most here I suspect).

BUT - over the last 6 months, I've noticied my progress starting to stall. Although the cardio was taking care of the fatloss, and my diet and workouts were "preserving" muscle, I felt like I've been neglecting the muscle building part of the equation for too long. You know...the lean look without that extra pop. Muscles look flat. "I think its time to start bulking mentality" - but that means back to the blocky look. How about running a test cycle and continue cutting up? Good idea!...but unfortunately it was NOT even an option. Just couldn't "do it" with my new job.

Instead I tried something different. And its working great. You're probably even gonna laugh when I tell ya. The trick is I started drinking half of my protein/dextrose shake before stepping foot in the gym. A friend of mine told me he's been doing it for awhile now with great results. I always believed in working out on an empty tank. Eat a protein/fat meal like an hour or two before lifting. That way your glycogen levels are low and the post-workout shake spikes your insulin and restore levels back to normal.

But doing some research on my own (not just hands-on but scientific research as well), I've found the pre-workout shake 1.) Increases nutrient delivery to muscles and spare muscle glyogen and protein. 2.) Limits immune system suppression. 3) Minimizes muscle damage. 4) Sets the stage for a faster recovery following your workout. This was taken directly from "Nutrient Timing" by John Ivy. GREAT book. I was amazed when I found this book. Not only did I see a real-life improvement by following this simple principle but theres actually text-book research data to back up this theory.

I know some might get insulted with this unconvential bit of info. It goes against the grain. After all, everything we learned in the Dieting Section of AR preaches "no pre-workout" shake. I always subscribe to the same theory myself. But I'm telling you....this one works (at least for me). Of course, you gotta try it for yourself and see how it works for you. If your comfortable and content with your progress now, I'd say save this post for possible future reference. But if your looking to spice things up, do yourself a favor and try this one out. It WORKS!

______________________
www.fitnessblueprints.com

I wanted to give that method a try , Probably will after this slin cycle...

but what concerns me is that dex can be burned off too quickly leaving u tired as hell so maltodextrin could probably be a better solution

**copenhagen** · 11-07-2005, 10:22 AM

guess im in the same boat with you bro, i have been drinking a pre-workout shake since i first started lifting.

**NYGIANTS21** · 11-07-2005, 10:41 AM

Good info I might give this a shot

***Giantz11*** · 11-07-2005, 12:15 PM

I agree 100%. If you are consuming Pro/fat before wokrouts you are not giving your body the adequate fuel for working out. High Intensity work can cannot use fat, and will turn all ingested protein to glucose, which is nothing but a waste of protein. Filling up muscle glycogen before working out is smart and leads to you being not nearly as catabolic. Because glycogen depletion will not be as much of a factor. Read this:

Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. [email protected]

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

***Giantz11*** · 11-07-2005, 12:17 PM

Basically, give your self fuel before hand (carbs) and the protein you take with it will be used to do their job, muscle building, rather than be converted to glucose. Makes a ton of sense.

**jdh** · 11-07-2005, 12:35 PM

muscle and fitness had a article a while back on something like this. basically it was mixing your drink and drinking half of it 1/2 before workout and then sipping on the rest of it through the workout. havent tried it though.

**steve0** · 11-07-2005, 12:59 PM

i open mine up and start drinking it about 30mins before my workout ends, i use two scoop On's whey and 80 g's dex

**usualsuspect** · 11-07-2005, 04:05 PM

Did you always do this? Just wondering if you noticied a big difference compared to when you didn't take a pre-workout shake.

Originally Posted by steve0

i open mine up and start drinking it about 30mins before my workout ends, i use two scoop On's whey and 80 g's dex

**TR'05** · 11-07-2005, 05:09 PM

So basically just split your PWO shake into 2 shakes? 20grams Prot/40 grams dex immediately prior to the workout followed by the remainded immediately following?

Or, a smaller pre workout shake, say 20P/40C as aforementioned, and the normal 40gram/80gram dex afterwards?

Which do you guys suggest?

**usualsuspect** · 11-07-2005, 05:23 PM

I'm usually quite anal when it comes to my diet i.e. measuring foods, counting macros etc. However for simplicity purposes, I just make my post-workout shake (100 grams of carbs/50 grams of protein) and take a big gulp (I'd say like a quarter of my shake) right before I leave my car and walk into the gym. I'd just go for ease of use in this case.

**steve0** · 11-07-2005, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by usualsuspect

Did you always do this? Just wondering if you noticied a big difference compared to when you didn't take a pre-workout shake.

i feel pretty jittery and a lil lite headed but i like it i think my body absorbs it better while i still have a few sets left to go i mean my blood is flowing my heart rate is up so the whey/dex get sucked up pretty quickly i just sip on it because i do abbs at the end of my workout but i have no bloating problems ON's whey is the best whey i have used it causes no bloat for me

**steve0** · 11-07-2005, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by usualsuspect

I'm usually quite anal when it comes to my diet i.e. measuring foods, counting macros etc. However for simplicity purposes, I just make my post-workout shake (100 grams of carbs/50 grams of protein) and take a big gulp (I'd say like a quarter of my shake) right before I leave my car and walk into the gym. I'd just go for ease of use in this case.

i am the same way always reconstructin, weighing foods ect.... so after you take down a quarter of the shake do you just leave the shake sittin in ur car ?? waiting for you,

**usualsuspect** · 11-07-2005, 06:53 PM

yep, it just sits there patiently waiting my return

. I usually drop a few ice cubes in it on my way out the door so it stays cold.

Maybe my next car will have a built-in refrigerator...Hehe

**SwoleCat** · 11-08-2005, 10:38 AM

I'll have oats/protein before I go and do my weight training session, yes, but it's low gi carbs for a steady insulin line and constant energy, as well as no up/downs and energy/lethargy.

Then, after the workout, I have my entire PWO shake, hence it being called my POST workout shake.

Just find what works for you as that's the best course of action.

~SC~

**xtinaunasty** · 11-08-2005, 11:40 AM

I have tried having a small whey/dex shake before a leg day. I endend up having a monster headache 15 mins in and my energy levels dropped off really quick.

But when I ate some oatmeal w/a scoop of whey about an hour before my workout it was a huge improvement. I had sustained energy through the entire workout.

I think a lot of that has to do with my insulin sensitivity (or resistance--i forget which one is which). So everyone may not have the same reaction.

**usualsuspect** · 11-08-2005, 12:34 PM

Ain't that the truth!

Might try the oats and protein mix next time instead of the shake...thanks for the suggestion bro.

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

I'll have oats/protein before I go and do my weight training session, yes, but it's low gi carbs for a steady insulin line and constant energy, as well as no up/downs and energy/lethargy.

Then, after the workout, I have my entire PWO shake, hence it being called my POST workout shake.

Just find what works for you as that's the best course of action.

~SC~