Carb loadinding??????????

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 10:38 AM

I have been doing a great diet of rotatintg carbs Monday being the highest starting with 175-200 CARBS on Monday, 100 Teusday, 50 Wed
25 Thurs 25 Friday and 12 Saturday. I load on Sunday with Quality carbs whole grains and Oats. I do my cardio on tue,thur,sat sun morning empty stomach and train Mon,Wed and Fri. My question is the window of opppurtunity??? I train like a banshee 30 sec rest strict form and by friday Iam shot as well as skinny. I read somewhere that you should consume a simple sugar like gatorade with protein in your post workout meal an hour after you train is this put towards your daily carb allowance
or should I save it until I load on carbs come Sunday
You r answeres are greatley appreciated.

**silverfox** · 05-27-2002, 10:41 AM

unless doing some kind of keto diet i would take in simple carbs RIGHT after you train w/ protien. yes it counts, but I think you will end up holding more mass .

**Pete235** · 05-27-2002, 10:44 AM

If you are trying to build muscle I wouldn't recommend going that low on carbs for long periods of time. If yoy are trying to lose weight that's another story.....just so you know it is very difficult to do both at the same time. As far as simple sugars post workout, they should be ingested immediately after training. A great post workout drink would be a simple mixture of whey protein, maltodextrin and water. An hour to an hour and half after that you can eat protein and complex carbs source (again...if you want your muscles to grow).

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Pete235
If you are trying to build muscle I wouldn't recommend going that low on carbs for long periods of time. If yoy are trying to lose weight that's another story.....just so you know it is very difficult to do both at the same time. As far as simple sugars post workout, they should be ingested immediately after training. A great post workout drink would be a simple mixture of whey protein, maltodextrin and water. An hour to an hour and half after that you can eat protein and complex carbs source (again...if you want your muscles to grow).

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I am trying to get ripped for a a vacation. I have been training for 4 mos and have had excellent results I just started the simple sugar post workout last week once to experiment I dont think I will be doing it again. I have one week till vaca and just wanted to mix it up.
I think this week unstaed of 200 to start I will start with 150 on Monday and go down. to 0
Mon-150
teus 50
wed 25
thurs 25
fri -12
sat- 0
Sun - loadddd

**Pete235** · 05-27-2002, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by williampowers
I just started the simple sugar post workout last week once to experiment I dont think I will be doing it again.

Why?

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by eye_candy
unless doing some kind of keto diet i would take in simple carbs RIGHT after you train w/ protien. yes it counts, but I think you will end up holding more mass .

I read read that simple sugars post workout wont elevated insulin and promote the storage of body fat???????
I also drank a Gatorade and isopure pos workout at 8 oclock was this too late

**silverfox** · 05-27-2002, 11:06 AM

They to elevated post workout or anytime but post workout is good time for this to happen you should be depleted so slin will push the carbs/protien in faster, soon your muscles have fuel better recovery and more time for growth. Only excess carbs will be a problem and usually post workout that is not. So i would not worry too much about some simple carbs/protien post workout even later in day.

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by eye_candy
They to elevated post workout or anytime but post workout is good time for this to happen you should be depleted so slin will push the carbs/protien in faster, soon your muscles have fuel better recovery and more time for growth. Only excess carbs will be a problem and usually post workout that is not. So i would not worry too much about some simple carbs/protien post workout even later in day.

The only thing is if I am having 12 carbs on fri ,do I go for the gatorade post workout which has 50 grams of carbs or just have a no carb Isopure and wait till Sunday???

**Pete235** · 05-27-2002, 11:19 AM

If you're on an ultra low carb diet (and obviously you are), don't have any simple carbs post workout...it's that simple. Just continue along your original plan...give it a chance. When you're finished getting skinny and want to put on some mass, add it (post workout drink) to your daily training regime as it will make a big difference.

When you have just finished a hard workout your body is depleted of glycogen. Ingesting a simple carb cause an insulin spike (which comes from the pancreas...or a small vial of humalog

). Insulin carries nutrients to the blood stream so the spike rushes these nutrients in when they are most needed. Like EC said, the likelihood of the body storing excess carbs from this process as fat are minimal.

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Pete235
If you're on an ultra low carb diet (and obviously you are), don't have any simple carbs post workout...it's that simple. Just continue along your original plan...give it a chance. When you're finished getting skinny and want to put on some mass, add it (post workout drink) to your daily training regime as it will make a big difference.

When you have just finished a hard workout your body is depleted of glycogen. Ingesting a simple carb cause an insulin spike (which comes from the pancreas...or a small vial of humalog ). Insulin carries nutrients to the blood stream so the spike rushes these nutrients in when they are most needed. Like EC said, the likelihood of the body storing excess carbs from this process as fat are minimal.

Thanx I appreciate it.
I will continue with what has gotten me results....

**Dr. Derek** · 05-27-2002, 04:11 PM

No matter it is my belief that you need simple sugar, in the form of dextrose or glucose, (they are pretty much the same thing), 15 minutes prior to the end of your workout. then right after your workout 30g of Pure whey protien, then 1.15 hours later a meal consisting of solid protien and complex carbs. Even though on some days I may go low carbs, during dieting, which I seldom do, I will still consume simple sugar after workout. My reasoning is this, why sacrafice hard gained muscle when dieting, Its to damn hard to put on just to burn it off with a low calorie diet, screw that. Since I have been doing the above eating regiment I have noticed significant changes in my body.

**williampowers** · 05-27-2002, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Derek
No matter it is my belief that you need simple sugar, in the form of dextrose or glucose, (they are pretty much the same thing), 15 minutes prior to the end of your workout. then right after your workout 30g of Pure whey protien, then 1.15 hours later a meal consisting of solid protien and complex carbs. Even though on some days I may go low carbs, during dieting, which I seldom do, I will still consume simple sugar after workout. My reasoning is this, why sacrafice hard gained muscle when dieting, Its to damn hard to put on just to burn it off with a low calorie diet, screw that. Since I have been doing the above eating regiment I have noticed significant changes in my body.

\

Thank you for the advice Ihave seen your pic's Doc and your discipline has paid off 1 question,
I weigh about 165 ilbs and averaging 225-250 grams of protein will this amount of protein stop any catabolic muscle deteriorating while Iam cutting up, and getting down beleow 50 carbs 2-3 days before carb loading. I am losing alot of fat on my midsection these last few weeks practicing this way of dieting.

**MIKE_XXL** · 05-27-2002, 07:35 PM

In my opinion no amout of Protein will stop the catabolic process of muscle detariation. Your body has an ability to reconstruct Amino Acids supplied by protein into glucose, so if you are on extremely low carb and calorie diet and you are ingesting high amount of protein, through enzymatic pathways, your body will make glucose from Amino Acids. That's not to say that you should not consume high protein while dieting, that's just to point out, as Dr.D said "he seldome goes low carb", that extremely low carb diet might not be the most efficiant way to go. Carbs are Protein sparring, by that protecting you from catabolism as much as extra protein might, if not more. One more thing if you are going to reduce your carb as low as you do, i mean 25gm or 12gm, i would significantly increase my fat intake, mostly in form of Flaxseed oil, to compensate for lowering the total caloric intake induced by lowring of the carbs...XXL

**Dr. Derek** · 05-28-2002, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by MIKE_XXL
In my opinion no amout of Protein will stop the catabolic process of muscle detariation. Your body has an ability to reconstruct Amino Acids supplied by protein into glucose, so if you are on extremely low carb and calorie diet and you are ingesting high amount of protein, through enzymatic pathways, your body will make glucose from Amino Acids. That's not to say that you should not consume high protein while dieting, that's just to point out, as Dr.D said "he seldome goes low carb", that extremely low carb diet might not be the most efficiant way to go. Carbs are Protein sparring, by that protecting you from catabolism as much as extra protein might, if not more. One more thing if you are going to reduce your carb as low as you do, i mean 25gm or 12gm, i would significantly increase my fat intake, mostly in form of Flaxseed oil, to compensate for lowering the total caloric intake induced by lowring of the carbs...XXL

Mike is exactly right, there are however some areas in the body that will not accept as an engery source, reconsctucted protien to glucose.

**williampowers** · 05-28-2002, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by MIKE_XXL
In my opinion no amout of Protein will stop the catabolic process of muscle detariation. Your body has an ability to reconstruct Amino Acids supplied by protein into glucose, so if you are on extremely low carb and calorie diet and you are ingesting high amount of protein, through enzymatic pathways, your body will make glucose from Amino Acids. That's not to say that you should not consume high protein while dieting, that's just to point out, as Dr.D said "he seldome goes low carb", that extremely low carb diet might not be the most efficiant way to go. Carbs are Protein sparring, by that protecting you from catabolism as much as extra protein might, if not more. One more thing if you are going to reduce your carb as low as you do, i mean 25gm or 12gm, i would significantly increase my fat intake, mostly in form of Flaxseed oil, to compensate for lowering the total caloric intake induced by lowring of the carbs...XXL

Thank you guys,
I have been eating anywhere from 26+ grams of monounsaturated fats towards the end of week from almond,cashews aswell as peanut butter. I figured trhat my maintenance calories OR BMR are from roughly 1450-2000 calories and with the meal replacement shakes and food I am staying in that range. http://www.hussman.org/fitness/bmrcalc.htm formula for BMR
Thank you for the advice again

**primodonna** · 05-28-2002, 07:40 PM

My summary of thoughts...

You need simple carbs post-workout..period...regardless of what philosophy of dieting you are following

You need way more than 26g of fat/day if your carbs are as low as they are

1450 calories/day is barely enough to keep a 100-pound girl alive...how much do you weigh?

I guess if you're going on vacation in a few days none of this matters but you got my opinions anyway

**williampowers** · 05-29-2002, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by primodonna
My summary of thoughts...

You need simple carbs post-workout..period...regardless of what philosophy of dieting you are following

You need way more than 26g of fat/day if your carbs are as low as they are

1450 calories/day is barely enough to keep a 100-pound girl alive...how much do you weigh?

I guess if you're going on vacation in a few days none of this matters but you got my opinions anyway

Thank you, I saw your pictures from your show congrat's you looked great..
I started in jan at 190 lbs and gradually descended to 165 as of may 15th.
I dont use gear but supplement heavily with 225-250 of grams of Protein roughly about 100-200 grams of low glycemic index carbs (www.glycemicindex.com). I am also cycling exenadrine hydroxycutand also taking CYTODYNE which claims to stop catabolism and promote Protein Synthesis. I took measurements from and pictures and seem to retain muscle as well as tigtening up.. I have obliques and a flat defined stomach.
I have been researching this matter for a while and found that this method works for me. The 1450 is minimal and only consists of maybe 1-2 days of the diet.. The higher range is wher it hovers around most of the week. I have been training for 4 mos and this new diet that I picked up from FLEX magazine called magnificent seven is really putting the final touches or busting past the plateau. I tell you this after Dr. Hussman's article which explains cardio, nutrition and training I picked up alot from his and all of the bodybuilding.com website
I have been incorporating simple sugars after training and I don't feel as run down towards the end of the week.
I geuss every one is different but I am happy with my progress .
Thanx again!

**primodonna** · 05-29-2002, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by williampowers
Thank you, I saw your pictures from your show congrat's you looked great..I geuss every one is different but I am happy with my progress .
Thanx again!

.

Thanks and the last part of your statement is what this is all about anyway...if you are happy, that is what matters...keep doing what you're doing

**williampowers** · 05-30-2002, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Derek
No matter it is my belief that you need simple sugar, in the form of dextrose or glucose, (they are pretty much the same thing), 15 minutes prior to the end of your workout. then right after your workout 30g of Pure whey protien, then 1.15 hours later a meal consisting of solid protien and complex carbs. Even though on some days I may go low carbs, during dieting, which I seldom do, I will still consume simple sugar after workout. My reasoning is this, why sacrafice hard gained muscle when dieting, Its to damn hard to put on just to burn it off with a low calorie diet, screw that. Since I have been doing the above eating regiment I have noticed significant changes in my body.

Dr. D
I took your advice about post workout nutrition of simple sugar and found that I look fuller as well as staying tight. I have 1 question though, It might sound dumb but today for example I did 50 min of cardio on a empty stomach at 75 max heart rate and broke a great sweat burned 400 calories after towards the end I drank a gatorade which has roughly 50 carbs/sugars and have been cosume fibrous carbs thru out the day . On average on off days (4) I do 45-60 mins of cardio with great results and was wondering if this is enough? and if I can still have that much sugar?
Thank you again...

**silverfox** · 05-30-2002, 01:52 PM

More than enough cardio and I think your on track in terms of carbs/sugar, remember only excess carbs are stored as fat, and that is not liky with your current diet/cardio/workouts

**williampowers** · 05-30-2002, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by eye_candy
More than enough cardio and I think your on track in terms of carbs/sugar, remember only excess carbs are stored as fat, and that is not liky with your current diet/cardio/workouts

I also lift with 30sec rests which I feel re great.
You da man bro just checking.
Thanx