bulking question

**abstrack** · 01-04-2003, 11:44 PM

well if you were to run a cycel of deca and test for instance, and I have read that you should keep the calories up to 5000 per day because of the deca. Since deca doesnt kick in untill the 4-5 week do you still have to run such a high calorie intake during th beginning weeks?? If you just kept your diet at 3000-3500 and then bumped it up when the deca kicked in, it just seems like you could save on some money or not waste any food when you dont really need that many??? just curious??

**Cubber** · 01-05-2003, 10:13 AM

bump

I'm interested to know as well.

**quarterback7** · 01-05-2003, 10:36 AM

Within the first two weeks anabolic action is going to start to take place. You need to start to raise your calorie intake within the first two weeks and continue as time goes on. Very important though to monitor body fat % as well. A increase in body fat will tell you if your calorie intake is ahead of anabolic action. Remeber, this is a bulking cycle. Just eat!!!!!!!!!!!! and work out like a madman. Body fat % is the key though.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 01-06-2003, 12:44 PM

He's right....eat.......eat.........eat! Don't wait until the 3rd week, start increasing your calories right away. Also, how many calories you need various depending on your weight. What's your stats?

**abstrack** · 01-06-2003, 12:49 PM

I am 5'5" 170 lbs
that was going to be my next question, does a guy my size need to take in up to 5000 cal or even 4000 cal?? I have no problem with eating and doing it all day is not a issue, but there is no sense in consuming som much when my body does not need that much ?? or am I wrong??

**Warrior** · 01-06-2003, 12:57 PM

I would say so. I think the only reason that it is not "noticed" in the first few weeks is because your body needs time to build. Also - frontload twice the maintenance dose for a faster blood level build up. Interesting question.

At 170lbs and training for hypertrophy you would need 3000-3300 calories without AS. And that also depends on how active you are... and your somotype.

**abstrack** · 01-06-2003, 03:08 PM

right now i am comsuming just about that, 3000 or more per day
4-5 solid meals and a protein shake at night or after I work out.
right now the only activeness I get is at the gym, I am a seasonal worker and it is Michigan weather --so it is cold as hell outside and I find it no reason to venture outside unless if it is to get food or go to the gym. well I have school 3 days a week but thats not really being that active??

Warrior, I am sorry I dont understand your statement about frontloading?? I understand frontloading the concept and tapering at the end and saturating the receptors is the key, Well I guess my question is If I was to run deca at 400mg/week and sus250 eod for a 12 week cycle your saying front load the deca and the sus. also I will be running d-bol 35mg/day week1-4 and some winny at the end for 3 week past my last shot of deca and sus for a total of a 15 week cycle. Also my somotype would be mesomorph if this helps anymore??

**quarterback7** · 01-07-2003, 08:11 AM

Frontloading is starting your cycle with a quicker acting AS. It has to do with the ester. For instance Test Pro would be a good front load. I would prefer to mix it with the slower esters, like Enath or Cyp. Also, orals for the first 2 to 4 weeks get blood test up quick. Its a jump start.

**abstrack** · 01-07-2003, 08:23 AM

thanks QB7!!

**Warrior** · 01-07-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by quarterback7
Frontloading is starting your cycle with a quicker acting AS. It has to do with the ester. For instance Test Pro would be a good front load. I would prefer to mix it with the slower esters, like Enath or Cyp. Also, orals for the first 2 to 4 weeks get blood test up quick. Its a jump start.

lol - that is not frontloading! That is basically referred to as jump starting - or some shit. Frontloading is doubling the maintenance dose the first week so blood levels of a large ester rise faster - quicker results.

Hang on...

**Warrior** · 01-07-2003, 01:27 PM

Here ya go brah - Frontloading. I broke it down with a short ester using propinate as the model - but the idea of frontloading would be most beneficial for longer esters, like decanoate, enanthate or undecanoate...

I'll bump that frontloading thread for more replies too...

**abstrack** · 01-07-2003, 04:34 PM

ahh!!! warrior thanks bro
so for my next cycle with deca ran at 400mg per week, run it 800mg the first week and for the sus if will be running it with I am shooting eod. so if i start on sun w/ my first shot then the first week dose is 1000mg and your saying to be frontloading that , i would have to run 2000mg the first week. Thats alot of sus in the first week, or just run the deca in a frontloading manner ???
sorry for all the ?'s but I need to clear this up
thanks everybody!!!

**Warrior** · 01-07-2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by abstrack
ahh!!! warrior thanks bro
so for my next cycle with deca ran at 400mg per week, run it 800mg the first week and for the sus if will be running it with I am shooting eod. so if i start on sun w/ my first shot then the first week dose is 1000mg and your saying to be frontloading that , i would have to run 2000mg the first week. Thats alot of sus in the first week, or just run the deca in a frontloading manner ???
sorry for all the ?'s but I need to clear this up
thanks everybody!!!

Highly recommended for the Deca. 800/400/400/400/....

The Sust250 - I wouldn't say so. Too many different esters to complicate the validitiy of it. The propinate and phenypropinate in it will raise blood levels fast anyway.

**quarterback7** · 01-08-2003, 11:24 AM

I agree with warrior in one respect. Double the dosage in the first couple of weeks of a longer ester will help raise test blood serum levels quicker.

There is wide spread confusion as to what constitutes frontloading. So, I go with the pros. Dale Riplinger (former Mr. Olympia) who is a friend of mine decribes front loading as a stack of AS with slower / faster acting esters. Removing the faster ester as the blood serum levels build. Same thing can be accomplished eighter way. Still uses faster esters in a stack are going to elevated serum levels quicker.

Its a matter of interpretation and an open mind to what really defines frontloading.

Jump start and frontload are accually synonomous.

Frontloading is jump starting the system.

**Pete235** · 01-08-2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by quarterback7
Dale Riplinger (former Mr. Olympia)

Dude, Dale Riplinger is NOT a former Mr. Olmpia!! I've never even heard of him. Here are the only men who have ever won the Mr. Olympia contest:
Larry Scott
Sergio Oilivia
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Franco Columbo
Frank Zane
Chris Dickerson
Samir Bannout
Lee Haney
Dorian Yates
Ronnie Coleman

**Warrior** · 01-08-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by quarterback7
Jump start and frontload are accually synonomous.

Frontloading is jump starting the system.

Believe that if you want but it confuses the whole theory.

**quarterback7** · 01-08-2003, 08:53 PM

I'm sorry I ment Mr. Universe..... Brain Fart. As a matter of fact Lee Haney was one of Dale's best Friends. Dale is a trainer now here in Iowa at Golds Gym. Same gym Pat Miletich UFC Champion is at.

Frontloading is no longer a theory it is a scientific fact and it is not really all that confusing. Put the bong away for a couple of days, let your head clear and it will all start to make sense.

Just f---ing with ya bro. Work hard, get big and be safe.

**CaliFella** · 02-16-2003, 10:03 PM

Frontloading = Double the weekly dose for the first week or two, for long acting esters...ie..deca ...test ethanate. So it hits your system in about two or three weeks instead of four or five.
wk1 wk2 wk3 wk4
800--800---400---400--etc

Jumpstarting = Using a short acting ester(test propionate ) at a regualar dosage like 75mg every day...to build up blood levels for the first few weeks before the long acting esters(test ethanate) kick in then ending the short ester(test propionate)when the long acting esters kick in. Not the same

IMO jumpstarting is going to give you a more consitent blood levels throughout your cycle where as front loading you still have to wait a couple weeks for ideal blood levels.

Therefore, if you jumpstart your cycle with test propionate for the first few weeks...then the long acting ester(test eth) will finally kick in and you can drop the short ester(test prop). However you might still need to front load(double dosage) the deca or eq though the first week or two being that its a long acting ester.