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  1. #1
    xenithon is offline Member
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    Question Allround maintenance/Slow fat loss Critique

    Hi there,

    I am currently following a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet. It has been working for me, and also its more like a lifestyle which I can get used to very easily, and not something drastic which you would only do for short periods of time, such as a CDK diet. Ultimate goal for me here is to rather not lose any fat and stay the same than lose a lot of muscle - I don't mind losing fat very slowly.

    I have been sticking to a very similar routine, just started about 2 weeks ago and things are looking good. I found that my body stores carbs very easily and when I was having carbs 3 times (morning, PWO shake, post PWO meal) I could not lean out. Here is a basic day for me, just wanted to know if there is any info/advice/critiques:

    (I have a few questions which I have marked with a * under each part and comments\reasonings marked with **, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!)

    8:30: Bowl of oatmeal, 10 egg whites. (40g carbs, 40g protein, 5g fat)
    * should I add an egg yolk or two?
    11:30: Tuna salad with 2 tspns olive or grapeseed oil or pumpkin seeds (40g protein, 5-10g carbs, 10g fat)
    ** any healthy fat source coming to around 10g fats
    13:30: Train
    15:00: PWO shake – 40g whey with 40g dextrose (40g protein, 40g carbs)
    16:30: Two chicken breasts or an ostrich steak, with steamed broccoli or zucchini (40g protein, 5-10g carbs, no fat)
    * I was told that both the PWO shake and post PWO meal should have as little fat as possible, right?
    19:30: Grilled turkey breast, large plate of cauliflower, with 2 tspns olive or grapeseed oil (40g protein, 5-10g carbs, 10g fat)
    23:00: Just before bed – slow digesting protein powder with 10g flax oil. (35g protein, 10g fat)

    All in all, I have major carbs in only 2 meals, the rest of the day is some protein source along with around 10g healthy fats per meal (except post PWO) and fibrous veggies – don’t really count or weight them out, normally a large plateful of salads or fibrous veges does the trick.

    Training is 5x a week weights. I lose too much muscle with lots of cardio, so I only do cardio twice a week, HIIT for 15 minutes - seems to be doing the trick of leaning out without muscle loss.

    I am supplementing with a multivitamin/multimineral in the morning, a B-Complex with my post PWO meal, and glutamine will definitely come into the equation – just waiting for it to be brought in for me from overseas, about 2kgs worth, since its hellishly expensive here. I will be taking in 15g glutamine a day (5g morning, after workout, before bed).

    BTW - I'm 1.75m, 21yrs, ~160lbs. Any other stats or info neede just let me know.

    Thanks again in advance for any input!

  2. #2
    yellows2k is offline Member
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    Re: Allround maintenance/Slow fat loss Critique

    Originally posted by xenithon
    Hi there,

    I am currently following a high <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, moderate fat, low carb diet. It has been working for me, and also its more like a lifestyle which I can get used to very easily, and not something drastic which you would only do for short periods of time, such as a CDK diet. Ultimate goal for me here is to rather not lose any fat and stay the same than lose a lot of muscle - I don't mind losing fat very slowly.

    I have been sticking to a very similar routine, just started about 2 weeks ago and things are looking good. I found that my body stores carbs very easily and when I was having carbs 3 times (morning, PWO shake, post PWO meal) I could not lean out. Here is a basic day for me, just wanted to know if there is any info/advice/critiques:

    (I have a few questions which I have marked with a * under each part and comments\reasonings marked with **, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!)

    8:30: Bowl of oatmeal, 10 egg whites. (40g carbs, 40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 5g fat)
    * should I add an egg yolk or two?
    11:30: Tuna salad with 2 tspns olive or grapeseed oil or pumpkin seeds (40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 5-10g carbs, 10g fat)
    ** any healthy fat source coming to around 10g fats
    13:30: Train
    15:00: PWO shake – 40g whey with 40g dextrose (40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 40g carbs)
    16:30: Two chicken breasts or an ostrich steak, with steamed broccoli or zucchini (40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 5-10g carbs, no fat)
    * I was told that both the PWO shake and post PWO meal should have as little fat as possible, right?
    19:30: Grilled turkey breast, large plate of cauliflower, with 2 tspns olive or grapeseed oil (40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 5-10g carbs, 10g fat)
    23:00: Just before bed – slow digesting <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> powder with 10g flax oil. (35g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a>, 10g fat)

    All in all, I have major carbs in only 2 meals, the rest of the day is some <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> source along with around 10g healthy fats per meal (except post PWO) and fibrous veggies – don’t really count or weight them out, normally a large plateful of salads or fibrous veges does the trick.

    Training is 5x a week weights. I lose too much muscle with lots of cardio, so I only do cardio twice a week, HIIT for 15 minutes - seems to be doing the trick of leaning out without muscle loss.

    I am supplementing with a multivitamin/multimineral in the morning, a B-Complex with my post PWO meal, and <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=GLUTAMINE" target="_blank">glutamine</a> will definitely come into the equation – just waiting for it to be brought in for me from overseas, about 2kgs worth, since its hellishly expensive here. I will be taking in 15g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=GLUTAMINE" target="_blank">glutamine</a> a day (5g morning, after workout, before bed).

    BTW - I'm 1.75m, 21yrs, ~160lbs. Any other stats or info neede just let me know.

    Thanks again in advance for any input!
    YES!! This is what I have been preaching ever since I got here. You cant expect to lose fat too quickly like on a CKD cuz you will lose muscle. And YES!!! too much cardio can help you lose muscle quickly too. Am I dreaming here? HIIT cardio? That's what I believe is the most effective type of cardio! And you take the same supplements I do. Surely you will lose fat slower, but i guarantee in the end you will have more muscle mass left over.

    As far as your questions, me personally I wouldnt add an egge yolk and rather add a tablespoon of PB or a healthier fat with less cholesterol. And yes the PW meal and the meal after that should be low in fat, the 2nd meal should be relatively low in carbs too. I don't think you need 40g of protein PW, rather 20g is more than ample and dextrose you should bump to 50-60g.

  3. #3
    painintheazz's Avatar
    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Your diet looks pretty good to me for the goals you have stated.

    Q1
    should I add an egg yolk or two?
    depends on your cholesterol numbers and sat fat intake, I would skip and go with a healthier fat.
    Q2
    any healthy fat source coming to around 10g fats?
    you already are getting some more fat from oils with your 19:30meal so I would replace with nuts probably to get a wider range of foods.
    Q3
    I was told that both the PWO shake and post PWO meal should have as little fat as possible, right?
    Yup, fat will slow digestion and this isn't something you want at these times. Your post PWO meal fat content I believe depends more on your insulin levels at this time, if they are still high I would stay away from the fats, if not you could include a little. IMO I would stay clear of fat at this time.

    As for the post workout thing, I personally like 40g protein post workout. I think 20 is a little light for me, but I am 225lb, so maybe you can get away with it. My .02 on that matter.

  4. #4
    xenithon is offline Member
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    hi there!

    thanks for the quick responses! It feels good to know I am on the right track It has taken a while though - about 6 months of searching, researching, asking questions, trying out, experimenting and tweaking - but at the end of the day its all worth it. As I said before I also like it cause its a lifestyle - not a sudden shock to the system which I will have to change in 2 months.

    I actually just have a few more q's now that the main ones are sorted out:
    1. my fat intake comes from a lot of olive oil, flax oil at night, mixed nuts and seed and I just wanted to double check that grapeseed oil is a good alternative to add to the diet.
    2. on my non workout days the diet is the same, except that instead of the PWO shake I have a normal meal of around 40g protein with fibrous veges and about 10g healthy fats, and what would be the post PWO meal I have but with healthy fats this time. is this okay?
    3. on this kind of low carb diet do you think any type of refeed is needed?? I do not feel low in energy so haven't had one yet.

    Thanks again!

  5. #5
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    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Good to hear you are putting some time and effort into the research yourself too.

    1)Sorry bro, I don't know much about grapeseed extract and from what I saw from a quick search on the net is that it is used for messages. I will leave that to a bro that knows more about it.

    2) On non-workout days for me I usually drop my carbs down a little, there really isn't much of a need for them since I am not using them as energy and my body doesn't like carbs, stores them as fat very easily. But if I am already doing the low carb diet I keep it the same, I am already at a low level of carbs so there is no use going any lower. What you said looks good for what you are doing though, just don't up your cals too much with the extra fat, you are trying to lose weight and you are not doing anything to burn these extra cals on this day.

    3)On a low carb diet it is good to have a carb load day to get your glycogen stores back up and your metabolism back up to normal. Remember once your body adjusts to the low carb intake( low calorie) it will lower your metabolism to compensate for this, and you won't feel low in energy because your body is using less energy. By carbing up you will stimulate your metabolism so it will get high again and then when you go back on the low carb days you will burn more fat. Don't go over board with the carb loading, 100 - 150g extra is usually good for me, but like I said before my body doesn't like carbs, so find what works for you.

    Pain

  6. #6
    xenithon is offline Member
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    thanks again!

    That's a good point about keeping metabolism high - never thought about that. I am kinda hoping I haven't done that and its sorta irreversible at least I hope not. I will definitely start introducing a carb up day - sounds quite neccessary. Once again, just a few q's:

    1. I believe I should do carb up on a training day right? If so, any day in particular?? (I would kinda guess legs days myself )
    2. how often should I do it? In case my metabolism has started to slow down and get used to the lower calories, I do not want to start hecticly in case there's an adverse reaction. Would once every 2 weeks be okay to start with?
    3. On carb up should I keep having those healthy fats at highish levels or should they be dropped a bit??

    Thanks!

  7. #7
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    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Don't worry you haven't done anything perminent to your metabolism, you did it with diet and your body adapted, once you increase your diet it will increase again, it is all natural so dont worry, if you were using T3 then you can mess up your metabolism perminently.

    1&2) I do one of my carb ups on a training day and one on just a cardio day. For me I carb up twice a week, keeps me happy and my muscles looking fuller. I do it on Wednesday (my leg day, this is a very good day to carb up) and Sunday (I do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach) Like I said twice a week for me keeps me looking better, otherwise I look really flat. Some people can get away with once a week. Once every 2 weeks seems a little far though. But it depends on your metabolism and your bodies ability to adapt, but your glycogen stores are very low after 2 or 3 days of low carb dieting and I have heard this is when the met starts to slow and muscle starts to get lost. Twice a week for me works good, experiment with your body and see what you like.

    3) On carb up days I drop my fat intake 20g and up my carbs 120g - 150g. I am still higher calorie wise but I just don't need all that extra fat with those extra carbs to use as energy.

    Pain

  8. #8
    xenithon is offline Member
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    hi there,

    thanks again. well I have decided to definitely add a carb up day. Just looking at my current diet, I think I will drop the fat from 2 meals (~20g) and have carbs so that my total for the day is about 200g (~double normal intake on training days). Does that sound okay?? Also, just want to check about the training and non-training day debate. I can either have carb up on:

    1. Saturday = legs day
    2. Sunday = Off day (I work chest on monday so it will give me energy for that too I guess).

    On one hand I say workout day is good cause it'll power legs workout and I can eat alot on legs day. On the other hand, non-training day gives my body a full rest (after all we build mainly during recovery) and the carbs I put in won't be used for workouts but for pure carb up. Anyone got any input or any suggestions?? At the end of the day it won't make TOO much difference, at least not to me, just wanting to know if there's any one preference which the body might prefer??

    Thanks!

  9. #9
    yellows2k is offline Member
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    I'd do 100g on non training days. 250 for legs, 200 for back, 150 for chest,shoulder, and arm days.

  10. #10
    painintheazz's Avatar
    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Originally posted by yellows2k
    I'd do 100g on non training days. 250 for legs, 200 for back, 150 for chest,shoulder, and arm days.
    This looks pretty good to me. Personally I would go 250 legs, 200 chest and back, and 130 on should, bi, tri. 100 on off days. But that is just personal preference and nit picking, come up with what you like in those ranges.

    Pain

  11. #11
    xenithon is offline Member
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    well, i will try thhose cycling carb routines later on perhaps - as mentioned I am quite happy with my routine as it is, the only change for now is adding one carb up day per week. any advice on wether it sould be my off day (sunday - in between legs and chest) or training day (saturday, legs)??

    thanks! :0

  12. #12
    painintheazz's Avatar
    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Try it on your off day and see how you like it, if you think you are gaining fat or gains are slowing change it to leg day. IMO

    Pain

  13. #13
    xenithon is offline Member
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    tks. I am sooo looking forward to sunday I haven't had a day with more than about 150g carbs in about 6 months!

  14. #14
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    haha, have fun you will love it. Be careful not to go over board, I deprive myself of sugar so much that sometimes when I get a little I go crazy and start eating everything in sight. It is more addictive than heroin IMHO. haha.

    Pain

  15. #15
    xenithon is offline Member
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    yeah - i know. remember i am sorta carb intolerant (fat stores easily), that's why I will only do carb up once a week for now, to see how it goes. I hope non-training day is good - should be, gives me full recooperation - I can just imagine the energy I will have for monday's chest workout! One quick question though - it being nontraining day, should I have heavy carbs the first 4 meals?? So I will have about 50g carbs at 8am, 11am, 2pm and 5pm. Then 8pm and 11pm meals without carbs.

  16. #16
    painintheazz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by xenithon
    yeah - i know. remember i am sorta carb intolerant (fat stores easily), that's why I will only do carb up once a week for now, to see how it goes. I hope non-training day is good - should be, gives me full recooperation - I can just imagine the energy I will have for monday's chest workout! One quick question though - it being nontraining day, should I have heavy carbs the first 4 meals?? So I will have about 50g carbs at 8am, 11am, 2pm and 5pm. Then 8pm and 11pm meals without carbs.

    Yup, you still don't want to go to bed with a lot of unused carbs in you. I wouldn't go with the carbs past 8pm. Looks good.

    Pain

  17. #17
    xenithon is offline Member
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    hi there,

    Carbup day coming tomorrow - gonna be my first one (as discussed, gonna make one carb up a week, on Sunday - my off day, doubling carbs to around 200g). I am a bit nervous and hope my body doesn't hit back and start storing the carbs as excess - I'll have to wait and see though

    One question though - what are the best carb up foods?? Low GI things like pasta, oatmeal, beans, sweet potato, brown rice??

    Thanks!

  18. #18
    painintheazz's Avatar
    painintheazz is offline Anabolic Member
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    Get some nice high GI carbs right after your workout, your body will store these in your muscles very quickly and will love you for it. As for the rest of the day get slow GI carbs.

    Pain

  19. #19
    xenithon is offline Member
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    arrgggg - but I thought it was meant to be no training on carb up!!

    I was either gonna do it today (legs) or tomorrow (off day, in between legs and chest on monday). now I am confused! Should I still do it on the off day??

  20. #20
    painintheazz's Avatar
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    My bad I forgot it wasn't a training day ( I never have a none training day with my split so I forget what normal people do haha), then just eat slow GI carbs. Bro, you are worrying about this too much, in the long run it isn't going to matter if you do it on a training day or non-training day. You need to carb up to get your metabolism back up and running and 100g of carbs extra isn't going to pack on the fat it is 400cals that is 11% of a pound if it was all stored as fat and none used as energy. You seem to have gotten yourself in this low calorie mind set and scared to eat. You are in this for the long term, in the long term cheat meals and days off all seem to fad out. Relax the more enjoyable you make this the longer you will stick with it!!! Hope this helps.

    Pain

  21. #21
    xenithon is offline Member
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    heya,

    one more very quick question about carbup - I know I must reduce the fat intake for the day, but should I keep the protein intake quite high, like 40g/meal, or should it be dropped to (carbs increased from about 5 to 50 per meal for carbup).

    Thanks!

  22. #22
    painintheazz's Avatar
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    You can drop the protein to about 1g/lb on this day and you should be fine, this will help save some cals.

    Pain

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