ALA induced ketosis questions

**Leanforlife** · 03-17-2003, 12:27 PM

Hey everyone,

I am starting my diet on wednesday. I am going for 60 days straight. I have until wednesday do figure everything out!

I use large amounts of ALA (3-4g's ED) and last time I used it I ran into something called ketosis. Now that I know what it is I am going to use it to my advantage. At that dosage of ALA I stay in ketosis even with around 120-130g of carbs a day. Is this real ketosis or am I missing something here?

I have read a lot about people not eating enough fat on a keto diet. Would not eating enough fat not get them into ketosis or prevent them from losing weight while in it?

One last point I am unclear on is about insulin . If you can point me to a link here or something thats cool. When you eat carbs on a keto diet it causes on insulin surge right...? Which is apparently bad... but doesnt ALA help build muscle at those dosages by spiking insulin levels?

Thanks

**Leanforlife** · 03-17-2003, 12:29 PM

Training: 2 years
Height: 5'10
Weight: 185
BF: 14%
Status: Natural

Training: 2 days split: (mon/thurs and tuesday/friday)
Cardio: 5 days a week, 30 mins treadmill @ 6.0 mph

Goal: Lose as much BF as possible over the next two muscle while sparing as much muscle as possible but losing BF is most important.

**durbin22** · 03-17-2003, 02:32 PM

Check out this site www.c-k-d.com.

**painintheazz** · 03-17-2003, 02:44 PM

I don't know if ALA or even r-ALA would be able to keep you in Keto at 120g of carbs a day. I am not sure though. Have you been testing your urine for Keto levels??

Pain

***the original jason*** · 03-17-2003, 05:35 PM

i doubt you could be in ketosis at that level of carbs also. What happens if you dont eat enough fat is your body will utilize protein (muscle) as energy before it will use ketones(FAT) as energy thats why it is suggested that its followed to correct macros otherwise you can lose large amounts of muscle

peace

**rambo** · 03-18-2003, 12:01 AM

ALA is oft debated, but it's actual effects are unproven. No actual studies have been done on it, even though there are small groups of people who swear by it. Yes, i have heard of ALA, especially at 3-4 grams a day inducing ketosis even when carbohydrate intake surpasses 100 grams. You should understand that ALA can induce mild hypoglycemia, as I'm sure you might have noticed. You are in ketosis at these points if the strips indicate it. You have to realize that not only is ALA expensive at that dosage, even though it will keep you in ketosis, it's muscle sparing effects at high doses are said to be almost anabolic by some, and a non-factor by others. The bottom line is ALA has NOT been thoroughly researched by a third party, no matter what people at other boards try to pass of as relevant studies. But if it keeps you in ketosis, go for it.

**painintheazz** · 03-18-2003, 06:51 AM

r-ala is the good one, I doubt ala is very good for this effect. I believe r-ala works because I have seen about 10 or more people all say that it helps them get back into keto quicker after their refeed day.

Pain

**durbin22** · 03-18-2003, 09:57 AM

I use R-ala when I carb up and it helps out a lot. The other day I broke down and ate some pasta and had 3 R-ala caps before the meal. I did not really need the 3 with the amount of pasta I ate but I took it just to be safe. I checked my urine before and later that night and even in the morning and still remained in ketosis. R-ala imo is one of the best supplements out there.

**Leanforlife** · 03-18-2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by durbin22
I use R-ala when I carb up and it helps out a lot. The other day I broke down and ate some pasta and had 3 R-ala caps before the meal. I did not really need the 3 with the amount of pasta I ate but I took it just to be safe. I checked my urine before and later that night and even in the morning and still remained in ketosis. R-ala imo is one of the best supplements out there.

My personal conclusion is that as everything else does in BBing, the effects of ALA vary from person to person. For me I can personally say that I do stay in ketosis according to the strips even @ 150-180g of carbs a day. Also the anabolic effects are present with me as well. But I do think that the anabolic effects might be just in my head because of the pumps I get. Whether it has an anabolic effect or not that I can safely say that it gets me pumped as hell and the pumps do last for the majority of the day for me.

I have a couple more questions though.
1.If you ARE in ketosis at lets just say for arguments sake 100g of carbs ED would it matter it the day when you took in the carbs?

2. Since you are in ketosis at 100g ED wouldnt it be better to stay like that on ALA so the carbs get shuttled directly to your muscle as opposed to doing a traditional keto diet of >50g of carbs a day?

**Leanforlife** · 03-18-2003, 02:14 PM

Also I realize I need to up my fat intake. What are some good high fat foods? I have flax seed oil in liquid and pills as well. That stuff is nasty! I really want to put it down but shit! I tried it in my shakes and I can still taste it, now I make my shakes with water so I dont even want to bother combining the two because obviously water and oil are going to separate. Any tips? I would love to just put it in some horse caps! I dont care how big of a pill I would have to swallow to avoid that taste.

**painintheazz** · 03-18-2003, 02:15 PM

I agree with you I am able to hit keto on 90g of carbs a day, provide most of that is from fiber (50g).

I would get those carbs right after your workout that is when they will be best used.

Ofcourse using ALA would be better, I rather have most those carbs go to my muscle then my adipose tissue.

Pain

**painintheazz** · 03-18-2003, 02:16 PM

Find nuts with low carb values, macadamia nuts are my favorite.

Pain

**Leanforlife** · 03-18-2003, 02:41 PM

thanks, I really need to plan out this diet tonite. I have cut my carbs drastically the last few days and I am starting ALA tomorrow. I am glad someone on here agrees! I dont know why but I am very sensitive to ALA and it gets me into ketosis always within 24 hrs max but normally only 5-10 hrs. I have been reading aroudn on www.c-k-d.com also thanks.

**Leanforlife** · 03-18-2003, 07:25 PM

hoping for some results like this, http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...hreadid=119717
not as drastic probably but I am doing cardio 5-7 days a week

**durbin22** · 03-19-2003, 12:29 PM

I don't know about foods but most of my fat comes from flax and oilve oil. Those results are sick but I am only looking to get to 8%. God bless R-Ala.

**Leanforlife** · 03-19-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by durbin22
I don't know about foods but most of my fat comes from flax and oilve oil. Those results are sick but I am only looking to get to 8%. God bless R-Ala.

Can you post your current diet?

**durbin22** · 03-19-2003, 03:30 PM

Yea but you will have to wait. I am at work now.

**durbin22** · 03-19-2003, 03:40 PM

Breakfast is usually an omlet with cheese and olive oil. For morning and afternoon snacks I have pepperoni slices and cheese sticks. For lunch I have a salad which consists of lettuce, cucumber, grated cheese and a chicken breast. For dinner I have a piece of chicken or steak and some green veggies. I do drink a post workout shake which is 2 scoops of Optimum Nutrition whey, Pro Labs Carb Pro and some flax oil. In the shake I get 44 grams of <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> and 55 grams of carbs. I know this is a low carb diet but I have not been kicked out of ketosis with post workout carbs. I have also tried pre workout carbs and it has helped with energy. Sometimes I will throw in another shake here and there and sometimes I have a <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> bar for a late night snack. I don't like dumping olive oil on my food so I throw it in a shake and slam it. If there's any questions let me know. I

**Leanforlife** · 03-19-2003, 03:49 PM

your diet is quite similar to mine, I know I need to up my fat intake. Its just so scary for me to snack on peperoni and expect to lose weight. i just received my ALA a couple hrs ago. I took 1000mg with my 5 full egg scrambled eggs with breakfast and then 500mg with 6 slices of turkey and two peices of brown flax bread. After going the bathroom 20 mins after the sandwich (preworkout meal) my urine is already starting to smell, ketosis is on its way and it has only been about 1.5 hrs since I opened to mail. If thats not fast I dont know what is.

What are your results so far on your diet? Time on? Stats before and now... sorry just trying to get ideas of what to expect. Also I am having gyno surgery in about 2.5 weeks. I dont cycle anymore but this is from my teenage years and from the one cycle I did. During that down time, I plan to diet hard and increase my cardio.

**Leanforlife** · 03-19-2003, 06:18 PM

also one more thing, I do have 35 femara 2.5 mg tabs that I have no real use for and non of my friends want to purchase, would it be a good idea to run a low dose, like 1.25 mg E3D or something while dieting to help weight loss? I know I should ask this is the anabolic forum but I just want to see if I can get an answer here.

I also have t3 ( dont plan on really using since I will have a lot of downtime after surgery) and clen (2 weeks on/ 2 off running right now)

**durbin22** · 03-20-2003, 08:36 AM

I was not sure about the pepperoni at first but I have been eating it and am still losing weight. I started this diet at 225lbs and now I am around 200lbs. I have been running this diet 1 1/2 months and have seen good results. The first week I lost 8lbs but that was water. THe past few weeks I have only been losing 1-2lbs a week but thats normal. My waist has gone from 37" to 35". My chest has also leaned out quite a bit. I have not done much cardio during the diet. 2x a week for 30 minutes. As for the femara I am not sure. Good Luck.

***the original jason*** · 03-20-2003, 09:09 AM

i would try the femara, i often add ldex during a cutting cycle it may be just pschological but i feel it helps me usually i am taking some type of test though also anything that keeps water weight down and possible help with reduction of estrogenic fat through not having excess estrogen anything that helps

peace

**Leanforlife** · 03-20-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by durbin22
Breakfast is usually an omlet with cheese and olive oil. For morning and afternoon snacks I have pepperoni slices and cheese sticks. For lunch I have a salad which consists of lettuce, cucumber, grated cheese and a chicken breast. For dinner I have a piece of chicken or steak and some green veggies. I do drink a post workout shake which is 2 scoops of Optimum Nutrition whey, Pro Labs Carb Pro and some flax oil. In the shake I get 44 grams of <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> and 55 grams of carbs. I know this is a low carb diet but I have not been kicked out of ketosis with post workout carbs. I have also tried pre workout carbs and it has helped with energy. Sometimes I will throw in another shake here and there and sometimes I have a <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> bar for a late night snack. I don't like dumping olive oil on my food so I throw it in a shake and slam it. If there's any questions let me know. I

Do you know what your ratios are? I am making up my diet right now and with 3g's of ALA ED so far I have

Day Totals: 2058 cals | 135.4 g of fat | 134.6 g of protein | 64.5 g of carbs

Percentages: 40% fat/ 40% protein / 20% carbs