Thread: Atkins induction phase
06-04-2003, 06:51 PM #1
Atkins induction phase
Im doing the Atkins right now and Im wondering, since so many of you go on CKDs and have gone on strict keto diets (no cycling) can I skip the induction phase?
Meaning, go liberal on the carbs, (20-30g instead of < 20g) or is induction a critical part of Atkins?
I ask since there is a phase after induction (2 weeks into induction) into which you slowly introduce carbs. It is called, practically, Ongoing weight loss. Now another questions would be is induction a simply getting used to phase or simply to get you into ketosis (which you woulld exit anyway after 2 weeks in OWL).
What do you guys think:?
Please consider the two questions!
06-04-2003, 07:34 PM #2
In my opinion, induction is there mainly for people that can't handle a quick descent into ketosis, i.e. going cold turkey on carbs from day one. If you stretch it out, you'd simply take a bit longer to get there.
Kinda like loading or not loading on creatine--they'll both work but it'll take a little more time to achieve the desired effect.
Out of curiosity, any reason why you don't want to go the CKD route?
06-04-2003, 07:59 PM #3
Thanks, anyone else with their opinion please, your 02 c appreciated!
Short guy: Because Im not bodybuilder and Im not training with weights right now and Ill be preparing for soccer season. I dont want the hassle of counting carbs during the summer, but if Im not fully trimmed for soccer then DURING soccer (fall) i will implement it.
I really doubt itd be of good use to me other than then, plus, my muscles never seem to get flat and Im never constipated. Guess Im just one of the lucky few huh
06-04-2003, 08:55 PM #4
Dude if you play soccer, you will lose all the weight and more that you need from prepping for soccer. I don't know of any soccer prep that doesn't include a shit load of running and if i were you, i would definitely throw some crazy plyometrics in there.
I can't beleive that you're not weight training for soccer. Even if you're just doing the basics (squats, ham curls, seated and standing calf raises), those will help TREMENDOUSLY, especially the squat. Even if you only do it once a week.
06-04-2003, 09:49 PM #5
right I'll be doing some but its not enough for me to go on a ckd and pretend to be engorging my muscles with glycogen when I could be losing weight while in ketosis.
Anyone else answer the question(s)?
06-06-2003, 01:32 AM #6
I've been on the Atkins diet before and I lost a ton of muscle. Lost a lot of fat too. Also made me very grumpy and groggy. I was on for about 5 months and I would not do it again. I'm cutting now with carbs and having just as much sucess (although slower) but not losing much muscle at all and still losing fat. Also I feel great!
Atkins is good for fat people who don't exercise, not bodybuilders or athletes.
06-06-2003, 10:06 AM #7
Thats you bro i wouldnt make such generalizations just because its 0 carbs. I understand its not optimal and shouldnt even be touched by bbers but you really do exercise in the atkins, and it comes down to diet manipulation (cals protein intake etc). Be smart, and adapt it to your needs.
Also, anyone else pitch in?
06-06-2003, 10:31 AM #8
Dark, I been on and off the Atkins diet for the last two years. For someone such as myself carbs are not my freind. I've always limited the 20 grams off carbs a day for the first two weeks. I don't think going zero carbs for x meany days is a good idea but then again I've never done it that way. I stay under 20 grams for the forteen days and then bump it up to no more than 60 grams for the next two weeks. And then a little more the following two weeks. However, I generally will hold at 20 grams until I get close to my goal. Once I get close I'll bump the carbs. But I will keep and eye on the scale to get feed back as to if I've bumped the carbs too much.
And I know you lose muscle on the diet but I did read an artical concerning the amout of muscle you lose doing an atkins deit while lifting weights. If I remeber correctly it helped retain muscle better then other diets. I started at 267 and I dropped down to 214 and I'm sure I lost some muscle with it but I couldn't really tell if it was a large amount. But the really big deal with Atkins is when you stop and you sart eatting like you used to the weight will come back in a flash and bringing with it more than when you started. You just have to know your body and what you can and can not eat to hold the weight you want.
I use the keto strips to see when I'm in keto and try to keep in that zone until I get the results I'm looking for.
06-06-2003, 01:17 PM #9
WHat happens when you go A LITTLE overboard?
Today, my fifth day, I went out for some sushi. I had a spinach roll and I didnt notice they had rice beneath them until I had them in me.
Will a little change in ketosis affect my diet? What if i stay under cal intake (AMR) needed per day? WIll it still take me 3 days to get back into ketosis? Do you think its ok to start OWL now (more than 20g per day)
06-07-2003, 06:33 AM #10
Dark, I don't think what you had is all that bad at least it wasn't something with sugar. If you're doing cardio you'll burn that little bit off and should continue to progress towards ketosis. Don't sweat it. Are you keeping a diet log? If not then do so. I know it's a pain in the butt but when you run into situations like this one you can make note of it and check your ketosis state (strip tests) and use it for future references. From my records it would take me between 3-6 days for me to get into ketosis but not a deep ketosis. That would take another 5 days or more.
What I would do is stick to the 20 grams of carbs per day for the first fourteen days and no more than those 20. You've already started counting your carbs so keep on target. I will not go near a scale or do a test strip until the 14th day. Just keep my mind on those 20 grams a day and nothing else. I did not care about fat or cals. After 14 days I'd do a test and each time I would be deep into keto. I would stay under 20 for another 7-14 days and then would have a cheat meal. As I learned, my body would get used to the diet and would kind stall a little with the amout of weight I would be droping. A cheat meal (anything I wanted) would do the trick. However, when I say cheat I mean I would have anything I wanted and as much as I wanted but I would set a time limit. Generally about 15-25 mins. Trust me I can pack it away inb fifteen mins too! Even with the cheat meal I would stay in ketosis, just not as deep a ketosis as before but it would rebound quick and I would right back losing the weight like before.
However, even after a longer period of time that trick will not work as well and the next one to pull out of the bag is to reduce the calories. This trick is not good for retaining muscle, IMO, because now I'm limiting the amount of protein (smaller portions) as opposed to eating the huge amounts of protein before. But it all depends on how much weight you need/want to lose because you might not need to use this trick.
What amount of weight do you want to lose? What are your goals and such?
06-07-2003, 10:46 AM #11
Because of medicine I went from 75kgs to 100.5kgs (1kg-2.2lbs) half muscle half fat because i worked out but had intense carb cravings.
I stand to lose a good 30lbs. What else can you suggest?
Yesterday i went out again and had lowcarb icecream not sure how this affects me. But overall, and after that sushi, ive had a PERFECT diet, so its not like I can't do it...its just that with vacations one can get really into good food, and thank god its feasible with atkins, to a certain extent, but sometimes i simply forget about the diet!!
Anyway, what can you suggest for my situation?
06-07-2003, 07:32 PM #12
Bro , those carb cravings are a bitch no doubt. The best thing I can tell you is to have a few snacks on hand. Peanut butter (natural), peanuts, sugar free Jell-O, pork skins and a few low carb protein bars. When the craving hit me I'll measure out some peanuts, grab a tablespoon or two of peanut butter or a protein bar. I did happen to stumble on a pretty good protein bar, it's not like the others in the fact it not chewy but rather crunchy. It's called Strive bars by Biochem. At lest I think it's biochem. I noticed (duh) you're here in FL so stop by the Vitamin Shoppe and grab a couple and try them out. It's the only place I've come across that carries them. Kind of hard to discribe the texture so you'll just have to give them a try.
Another thing is to time your last meal. I don't eat anything three hours before going to bed. I'll get up in the morning, drink water and down half a diet coke for caff. Then hit the cardio. I do try to plan my meals with the lest amount of carbs for the day and use a larger number for my post workout meal. Carbs are needed to pull the protein in for the muscles so I try to use them then. Granted their not as much as they should be but I really want to shed this fat so I'll sufer the lose of muscle.
Btw, how much cardio are you doing or are you not doing cardio right now?
Sorry but one other thing, BB's do use a low carb diet. It really helps to get shredded but they don't really do a full blown Atkins (they modify it to fit their needs) with all the fats and not as long as someone like myself does. Hell BB's have been doing a low carb diet long before Atkins came out with his first book.
06-07-2003, 07:34 PM #13
Dark, I'm not meaning to hog your thread so I'm sorry my input is so damn long and rambling. Any of you bro's have better, more or differnt ideas for our bro here?
06-07-2003, 08:55 PM #14
Nah man thanks for your advice.
Im doig cardio ed 5x a week for fat loss plus housework everyday so i get to eat a lot. Ill take the vitamin shoppe idea, although i like everything atkins, especially the bars and shakes, and an ocasional atkins indulgence bar (chocolate) is real good unless youre a chocolate connoseur.
SO do any of you bros out there got any other good advice for my situation or atkins in general?
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