Scientific Explanation

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-02-2003, 03:23 AM

It was recently brought to my attention not to eat fat in my first meal after cardio. Can some please give me a scientifice explanation why?

From what I understand, you aren't supposed to eat fat after a weight training session because you want to spike your insulin , and eating fat would slow that process down.

**hybrid** · 09-02-2003, 02:21 PM

TO spike your insulin you need simple carbs. The typical post workout drink would be something like 70g simple carbs and 35g protein. The sugar from the carbs spikes the insulin, which helps restore glycogen in your muscles.
Fat is harder for the body to digest, therefore it is digested slower. Mixed with carbs, it can slow the absorbtion of the carbs and protein, which will hinder the insulin spike, as your blood sugar will remain more constant.
This slowing of digestion is why it is good to have some fat with your protein right before bed. It will slow the digestion of the protein, giving you longer protein absorbtion overnight.

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-02-2003, 03:58 PM

Yes, but why should you not eat fat in the first meal following your cardio? THere is no need to spike your insulin after cardio.

**GetPsycho** · 09-02-2003, 04:23 PM

i have not heard this.

my post cardio meal is 2 scoops whey, 1 tbsp UDO's oil blend and 2 tbsp flax seed meal

you dont want to spike insulin after cardio b/c that will stop fat burning in its tracks. it is my understanding that you want p/f + fiber post cardio

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-02-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by GetPsycho

i have not heard this.

my post cardio meal is 2 scoops whey, 1 tbsp UDO's oil blend and 2 tbsp flax seed meal

you dont want to spike insulin after cardio b/c that will stop fat burning in its tracks. it is my understanding that you want p/f + fiber post cardio

^^^^Exactly, that is why I don't eat carbs after cardio. But, see my post here.. http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=63239

This is why I want to know why not to eat fat after cardio, that is what people are saying in the thread that I started listed above.

**GetPsycho** · 09-02-2003, 05:29 PM

Fats will have no impact on blood sugars, thus allowing the fat burning process you may have acheived from your session to continue.

**GetPsycho** · 09-03-2003, 10:42 AM

let me explain it this way...

the presence of insulin in the body will put a complete halt to fat burning.

consuming carbohydrates are chiefly responsible for inducing the release of Insulin

therefore, after cardio sessions, to keep the fat burning process in motion, eat protein, fat and fiber

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-03-2003, 12:21 PM

Exactly the way I made sense of it as well. But, people in my other post were disagreeing. That is why I asked for a scientifice explanation.

Anyone want to agree/disagree? As of now, the above post seems most logical to me. This is also what I have been doing for the last 2 weeks.

**GetPsycho** · 09-03-2003, 01:03 PM

for post cardio nutirtion i have 2 scoops whey (for protein and bcaa's), 1 tbsp udo's oil blend (for efa's) and 2 tbsp flax seed meal (for efa's and fiber)

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-03-2003, 01:46 PM

For post cardio, 1/2 hour to hour after and first meal of the day, I have this: 1 1/2 cups eggbeaters, 1/4 cup of walnuts, 25 grams pro in the form of chicken breast mixed with eggbeaters. A lot of water.

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-04-2003, 01:33 AM

C'mon, someone with a good reason has got to disagree!

Anyone?

**hybrid** · 09-04-2003, 09:20 AM

Hey, I agree with you as well. I guess I didn't read your first post carefully enough because I spouted off about what to do after weight training. LOL.
I think the reasoning that has been given here for only fats and protein after cardio is very sound.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 09-04-2003, 09:37 AM

I'll agree with ya. I too misread or evidentily had alot on my mind when I responded to your other thread.

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-04-2003, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by hybrid

Hey, I agree with you as well. I guess I didn't read your first post carefully enough because I spouted off about what to do after weight training. LOL.
I think the reasoning that has been given here for only fats and protein after cardio is very sound.

I have been doing searches on this subject as well, every phrase I could think of in that litttle search box, and this is a HUGE problem. It seems that no one ever clearly states PWO as being weight training or cardio.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the other post, I know, from expeiriance, that it is difficult to understand what PWO you are talking about.

Anyways, I guess I'll bump and see if anyone else has got any other info.

**Vibrantred94gt** · 09-07-2003, 12:23 AM

One last bump.

**DBarcelo** · 09-07-2003, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Vibrantred94gt

It was recently brought to my attention not to eat fat in my first meal after cardio. Can some please give me a scientifice explanation why?

From what I understand, you aren't supposed to eat fat after a weight training session because you want to spike your insulin, and eating fat would slow that process down.

Okay. When you do cardio, you put yourself into oxygen debt. When you're in oxygen debt, you've depleated adenosin phosphate chains and you're body is working it's hardest to get as much oxygen to your muscles to carry away the leftover useless phosphate before it settles into the muscle tissue and becomes toxic. Your body knows that it's depleated it's energy stores (the muscle fibers) and now has to go into it's long term energy storage (fat cells) in order to keep providing the energy to keep everything going. You're body is now using way more energy than it normally does, just to support it's basic functions. Your heart is beating faster, so that's taking up more energy. Your lunges are taking in more oxygen, so they have to expand deeper and quicker, so they're using more energy, etc., etc. So your metabolism (for the moment) is much quicker. If you put yourself in this state, and then consume simple sugars, or carbohydrates, you cause your body to release insulin . The release of insulin is telling your body that it has enough emediate energy, and it should start storing glucose (which is already in your blood). So if you're trying to burn fat, you've just stopped the fat burning process. You can keep your body burning that fat for hours after a good cardio workout. I would suggest not eating anything after a cardio workout, and to just drink plenty of water. Your body can get enough energy from water to keep it going for quite a while, but you have to make sure you have eaten a good amount before your cardio workout (preferably carbs).

As far as eating fat after weight training, I don't know. Weight training is usually anarobic, as aposed to cardio, which is aerobic. I don't see how consuming fat will slow down the release of insulin. It really depends on the type of fat you're referring to. Saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat, or what. They get broken down differently and some fats will cause a higher insulin spike. Some fats enter the blood and go into the cells to provide cellular energy. If you're weight training and are trying to only build lean muscle, then I can see not wanting to consume fat, but that's about it.

**rambo** · 09-12-2003, 05:36 PM

Hey DBarcelo I don't know where you came from but you've been exceedingly helpful around here. Thanks bro, always good to have new knowledge around.

**DBarcelo** · 09-12-2003, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by rambo

Hey DBarcelo I don't know where you came from but you've been exceedingly helpful around here. Thanks bro, always good to have new knowledge around.

Thanks a lot. Just trying to be helpful.

**cb25** · 09-30-2003, 09:02 AM

DB...the reason that fat will lower an insulin spike is due to the time for digestion. Eating fat slows gastric emptying which slows the rate at which those carbs reach your bloodstream, and eventually causing an insulin spike. Fat itself has no direct influence on insulin - it's the interaction with time for digestion that slows it.

All that being said - i think you're right on the money concerning the cardio info. Good call.

**bswowl** · 09-30-2003, 06:08 PM

well, what if you do your cardio after weight training, then what would you include in your meal after?

**DBarcelo** · 09-30-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by cb25

DB...the reason that fat will lower an insulin spike is due to the time for digestion. Eating fat slows gastric emptying which slows the rate at which those carbs reach your bloodstream, and eventually causing an insulin spike. Fat itself has no direct influence on insulin - it's the interaction with time for digestion that slows it.

All that being said - i think you're right on the money concerning the cardio info. Good call.

Like I said, it really depends on the type of fat you're referring to. Not all fat is slow to digest. You may be right, but I don't remember anything about fat slowing down gastric emptying. From what I remember, the gastrointestinal system will increase the amount of stomach acid in order to try to break down ingested animal fat or plant fat such as that found in peanuts, but both of which are mainly digested in the small intestines. Most of the rest of the food we eat is digested between the point you put the food in your mouth and the time it reaches the large intestines (that's why it's good to thuroughly chew your food, your mouth can absorb a lot of the nutrients before you even swallow it and what you swallow is even better broken down before it even reaches the stomach). Looking at it that way, there's no way that fat (animal fat) is going to slow down your bodies ability to absorb nutrients and like you said, it really shouldn't influence insulin release. Poly-unsaturated fat is very easy for the body to absorb and that can be something that can cause an insulin spike, because it is basically a suger, just like an amino is basically a sugar.

To answer the question about doing cardio after working out, I would follow the same as said before. If you're trying to cut up or slim down, don't eat anything for a few hours after your workout and only drink water during and after the workout. Your body does most of it's fat buring in the hours after you're done with your excercise.

**J-F** · 10-02-2003, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by bswowl

well, what if you do your cardio after weight training, then what would you include in your meal after?

Why what sould we do if we do weight and cardio??

**DBarcelo** · 10-02-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by J-F

Why what sould we do if we do weight and cardio??

If you're trying to build muscle and lose fat then I would say just try to stick to protien. You can't really efectively do both at the same time. Once you consume the protein, you get an insulin rush and that causes your body to stop burning fat (or at least slows it down a lot). Best thing you can do is either, wait an hour after your workout to drink a protein suppliment, then drink another one like two hours after that, then eat food a couple hours after that (which will minimize absorbtion of new fat, but provides nutrients for your body to build muscle). Or you can drink a protein suppliment after your weight training, but before you go on the treadmill. You will cause the insuline spike by consuming the protein, but it will lower as your muscles use it to rebuild and when you're running on the treadmill. Running on the treadmill after working out, I would suggest to actually walk and not jog. If you really want to jog, go no faster than conversation speed (the fastest you can jog while still being able to holding a normal conversation). I say this because you are more at risk of dehydration post workout. Running too fast or for too long also causes more waste accumulation around your muscles, which doesn't help the building process. For that reason, you may want to get a message or just rub your muscles down after the treadmill to help move that Lymph acumulation so it can clean your muscles quicker.

**cb25** · 10-02-2003, 03:06 PM

DB - I don't want to come off like a dick and keep disagreeing with you, so somebody (or yourself) step in if i'm way off base with this...

Taking in protein will not cause an insulin spike (at least not a noticable one). Carbohydrates stimulate the release of insulin, in order to promote uptake of nutrients (carbs, prot, fat, etc) into muscle as well as adipose tissue. If you're consuming fat and/or protein, there is no noticable insulin spike, although there may (i'm not sure) be a small release.

For me, when i'm trying to maintain (not dramatic fat loss or bulk) i usually consume some sort of MRP after my workouts (around 45minutes weights, 30 minutes cardio). If you're trying to lose fat, i would say avoid the sugars - you don't need the insulin spike. However, i would say you need some sort of carbs to replenish glycogen stores, as well as protein to supply amino acids to the muscles. The point of the simple sugars post-workout is to cause a more dramatic insulin spike so that your body will take up as much of the newly ingested nutrients as possible.

Also, i'm not sure of the physiology on this (this is probably where i'm waaayyy off) but i usually feel better and less sore the next day if i do some cardio after weights. It's always seemed to me that the increased blood flow means improved circulation and thus more removal of waste products from the weight workouts. I would however agree with the massage afterwards...that's a good way to end any workout, in my opinion.

**DBarcelo** · 10-02-2003, 06:57 PM

Not a problem, we're all here to learn and to share what we know. I'm always willing to admit if I'm wrong about something.

Sugar is what causes the prancreas to release insulin . There are several types of sugars. A lot of things that we don't automatically consider sugar are actually sugar when you get down to the chemistry of it. Carbs are made up of sugars, aminos are made up of sugars and proteins are made up of sugars (just to name a few). So you are right, carbohydrates are one of things that can cause an insulin spike. Any kind of sugar can cause an insulin spike and the more you ingest at one time, the more the insulin spike is going to be. Insulin also does a few different things, but the main thing isn't so much to get nutrients into the muscles as much as it is to tell your body to start storing extra nutrients.

Once again, I agree with you about avoiding sugars if you're trying to lose fat. It is also true that you don't an insuin spike if you're trying to lose fat. It's actually better to avoid an insulin spike when you're trying to lose fat, because an insulin spike will stop your body from burning fat. If you're trying to lose weight, once again, you really don't want to replenish your glycogen stores too soon, because your body has to deplete all glycogen/glucose before it will start to burn fat. Once you replace the glycogen, your body will stop burning your fat and start to burn the glycogen, and once that's used up again, it will start to burn fat again, but only if your body still needs the energy. And I do agree, when you're bulking up, its good to have an insulin spike to increase the uptake of protein and aminos into the muscles.

The last thing you mentioned is kinda off as far as the increased blood flow improving the circulation and removing the waste products after the workout. Lymph is what cleans up the waste products from the muscle tissue, and the lymphatic system is what controls the lymph. The thing is that the lymphatic system is not connected to the cirulatory system (it has no pumping system of it's own either). So, the increased circulation doesn't help to eliminate waste. By doing an aerobic excercise actually causes more waste to be produced. There are other things you can do, like message, which does help the circulation, but that's not what helps to eliminate waste, it's the rubbing of the muscles that pushes the lymph which makes it easier for the waste to be removed. Stretching can also help move the lymph around.

**rambo** · 10-02-2003, 07:10 PM

Hell I am gonna get in on this one

But only on one point, DBarcelo covered the rest.

Yes, protein will cause an insulin spike, bot only if it is taken in excess (eating 80 grams at a time.)

***Sicilian30*** · 10-02-2003, 07:14 PM

yes as most explained here which I wont' beat to a pulf. But one thing that may help is that insulin is the most anabolic substance in your body 10 times more anabolic than testosterone . Therefore an insulin spike post workout will help your grow. Eatting simple carbs post cardio workouts, will reverse the effect as someone said. Cardio is there to burn fat, not to add on more carbs when can and will be absorbed as fat. Insulin helps the muscles grow, and recover post heavy weight training. Hope this helps.

**DBarcelo** · 10-02-2003, 07:35 PM

I did mention that the more you ingest the more the insulin spike is going to be. My only problem with the 80 gram quote is the fact that a rather large male can only digest up to 50 grams of protein. Since 50 grams is quoted as being the max that a person can digest, I would go as far as to say that no person is capable of digesting more than 60 grams of protein at a time. The rest of the protein would just travel through the system undigested.

And like the VET said, insulin is very anabolic and is believed to be the most anabolic hormone in the human body. But it can also be very dangerous to the body. So, just because we say it's more anabolic than testosterone , doesn't mean to go out there and start pumping the stuff into your system. It's also much more dangerous than testosterone. If you don't know your blood chemestry, you can easily kill yourself by injecting insulin.

**cb25** · 10-02-2003, 07:57 PM

Good points guys...and I did say i was pretty sure i was way off about the cardio clearing waste thing...it's just something I've noticed about my body, that i'm less sore the following days. Besides...gives me good motivation to actually follow through on doing cardio post-workout when i want to go home...whatever works!

thanks for the exchange...this is why i'm on this board...

**DBarcelo** · 10-02-2003, 08:24 PM

That's why I always tell people you have to do what works for you. You can't just take what someone else does and expect it to work just as well for you. Even if other people don't understand why it works for you, it doesn't matter, as long as you know that it works for you.