how possible is it to loose fat with out muscle?

**timmz11** · 11-18-2003, 06:30 PM

hey guys..i jus got a quick one for ya..prolly a shot in the dark...
but i was wondering if there were any way possible to loose a lil fat without loosing what i have in muscle...im right at 13.8% bf..@ 26.29 lbs of body fat...and 54.2 liters of water..167 of LBM...
i jus wanna loose 10-15 lbs of fat..i figure that would put me under 10%...my question is...is there any kind of diet i can go on to do this..and retain muscle and strength...

or should i jus run...run.run..run my ass off and stick to basically water..?
maybe watch the carbs to an extent?

**usualsuspect** · 11-18-2003, 06:43 PM

Low intensity cardio everyday for 45 minutes is a big step in the right direction.

A good personalized diet is a little more complicated. For starters you want high protein, high fat (good fats), and low carbs. There is tons of past threads on sample diets. The best way is to find someone that has a similiar metabolism to yourself. If you don't feel like doing the grunt work and want someone else do it for you...I would say pm "SwoleCat." He's knows almost everything there is to know about diets. Good luck,

~US~

**Yung Wun** · 11-19-2003, 11:16 AM

what u need to do is increase protein intake
bump it to 2g per lbs, moderate fat, and mostly likely ur carb sensitive....so like Usual mentioned u prolly wanna lower ur carb intake...but timing is everything, when and what u eat is very important. bodybuilding fitness forums hype muscle bodybuilders

**saboudian** · 11-19-2003, 12:08 PM

As long as you lose less than 1lb per week you shouldn't lose any muscle.

**timmz11** · 11-19-2003, 02:31 PM

aight thanx guys.......the help was appreciated greatly.

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 11-19-2003, 05:23 PM

I agree with the low-carbs, BUT if you find that terribly hard, you don't necessarily HAVE to do it.

You can have a moderate amount of carbs and fats, and definately a high protein intake. But just do some cardio. Like mentioned above, on an empty stomach. If you get bored of low-intensity, try interval training or different methods of cardio.

Good luck bro!

**barbarian** · 11-19-2003, 06:42 PM

yea morning cardio before breakfast and then waiting 45minits before i eat after exorcize has worked great for me so far.

**timmz11** · 11-20-2003, 03:50 PM

thats great guys..thanx for everything..jus one quick question...why the cardio on a totally empty stomach?

**SwoleCat** · 11-21-2003, 09:13 AM

Because if you do cardio when there is food/nutrients/energy in the stomach, you are going to be utilizing THAT for fuel, NOT stored bodyfat. So, as you can see, that will do nothing to burn what is on your body already, AND the nutrients you burn off while not on empty SHOULD be being used for muscular repair.

~SC~

**timmz11** · 11-21-2003, 02:21 PM

thanx swole!

**barbarian** · 11-21-2003, 05:19 PM

good ole swole

**dominick0205** · 11-22-2003, 11:18 AM

why the low intensity to lose fat?

I know I've heard that you have to stay in the fat burning zone and not the cardio zone. I don't understand why its actually worse to get your heart rate higher (when it comes to burning fat)

**SwoleCat** · 11-22-2003, 07:16 PM

Because too high and you no longer utilize fat for energy during the cardio session, you are using sugars and/or lean muscle tissue. (Catabolism)

~SC~

**Kato** · 11-22-2003, 07:20 PM

would you recomend HIIT in the am on mt stomach

**SwoleCat** · 11-22-2003, 07:40 PM

No I would not. I don't like HIIT for my goals and those of the people I train. We don't wish to have JUST an elevated metabolism, but that PLUS fat having been burned during the cardio session. HIIT sessions are usually 15-20 mins in duration (sometimes shorter) and since one usually taps into fat stores for cardio vascular energy at around the 18-22 minute mark, I prefer the other form for the best of both worlds.

As well, people who say cardio is catabolic are those who are NOT eating correctly. You don't burn muscle by getting exercise, you burn muscle by not fueling your car that is your body when it needs it, in the right amounts, right types of food for the time, etc.

~SC~

~SC~

**rainbowsheep** · 11-24-2003, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Because too high and you no longer utilize fat for energy during the cardio session, you are using sugars and/or lean muscle tissue. (Catabolism)

~SC~

But by doing higher intensity work, you raise your metabolism over the next couple days...

And why are track sprinters so lean then?

**Tommy69** · 11-26-2003, 06:01 PM

I am a little confused as to why one should do low intensity cardio to drop the fat as opposed to a HIIT type workout, considering the results of this study tend to suggest that higher intensity interval training leads to more fat loss when compared to lower intensity cardio. Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8. "The impact of two different modes of training on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism was investigated in young adults who were subjected to either a 20-week endurance-training (ET) program (eight men and nine women) or a 15-week high-intensity intermittent-training (HIIT) program (five men and five women). The mean estimated total energy cost of the ET program was 120.4 MJ, whereas the corresponding value for the HIIT program was 57.9 MJ. Despite its lower energy cost, the HIIT program induced a more pronounced reduction in subcutaneous adiposity compared with the ET program. When corrected for the energy cost of training, the decrease in the sum of six subcutaneous skinfolds induced by the HIIT program was ninefold greater than by the ET program."
Additionally, I thought that if one did morning cardio on an empty stomach, one's cortisol levels rise and he/she will burn muscle as well as fat. A preexercise alpha-lactalbumin-enriched whey protein meal preserves lipid oxidation and decreases adiposity in rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Sep;283(3):E565-72. Seems that if one consumes whey protein pre-cardio, one can loss as much fat as if fasted, and gain lean tissue. In this study, rats were exercised under 4 different conditions. (1) Fasting. (2) Glucose meal before exercise. (3) whole milk protein before exercise (4) lactalbumin enriched whey before exercise. At the conclusion of the study, the glucose and milk protein fed rats gained fat mass, showing that these diets blunted the fat burning from exercise. Which is why I think most say to do cardio fasted. What about the fasted rats? They lost both muscle and fat. However, the whey fed rats lost just as much fat as the fasted rats, but gained muscle. So it is probably beneficial to consume some whey protein before morning cardio as opposed to doing it in a fasted state.

**barbarian** · 11-26-2003, 07:40 PM

dude go with whatever you want but me and swole and others dont tell people to do cardio in the morning just for the hell of it, the fact is it works and works well you burn fat and not muscle, now HIT you burn mucle as some fat and glucoce stores, look low intensaty cardio in the morning before eating is the best way to go i dont care what scientist says what the proof is in real world tests were 1,000s of men and wemon get alot better results off morning low intensaty carido before eating than 15 mintis of maximum all out bull****, oh and about rat tests there bull**** allso, look if you eat anything wethere it be protien carbs fat before cardio your body will use it for fuel before it does the fat and wil only **** you up, take my advise and take what theses half wit sceintist say with a grain of salt, swole cat knows more then most if not all of these dumbass know it all scintist.

**Animal Cracker** · 12-05-2003, 02:56 AM

Cardio...AM and empty!

**SwoleCat** · 12-05-2003, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

But by doing higher intensity work, you raise your metabolism over the next couple days...

And why are track sprinters so lean then?

Well, track sprinters are usually very lean because they are track sprinters, meaning freaks of nature, they were built for the sport and they have come to realize they are very good at it. Just as some can really play hoops, some can't dribble/shoot for ****. Also, u have to question what supplements (illegal and otherwise) these world class athletes are on. You can't say HIIT made them fast and lean, that's a bad gross generalization.

As far as the metabolism being raised for DAYS by doing HIIT, not so. If it were true, cardio each day would not be needed. Raising it for the day is plausible, yes, however 65-75% of MHR for a longer duration also elevates metabolism (even more-so as the longer duration encourages a fat burning furnace) and you also get the benefit of burning fat DURING the session, something not seen w/HIIT.........u just burn muscle and/or glycogen during those sessions.

So, for my goals and those I assist who want to look lean/mean/buff/toned/tan/trim/etc., HIIT is not a viable option.

Barbarian is correct in that I don't just spew out nonsense, I'm speaking from personal experience and from those I assist which are quite numerous in number.
~SC~

**rainbowsheep** · 12-05-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by barbarian

dude go with whatever you want but me and swole and others dont tell people to do cardio in the morning just for the hell of it, the fact is it works and works well you burn fat and not muscle, now HIT you burn mucle as some fat and glucoce stores, look low intensaty cardio in the morning before eating is the best way to go i dont care what scientist says what the proof is in real world tests were 1,000s of men and wemon get alot better results off morning low intensaty carido before eating than 15 mintis of maximum all out bull****, oh and about rat tests there bull**** allso, look if you eat anything wethere it be protien carbs fat before cardio your body will use it for fuel before it does the fat and wil only **** you up, take my advise and take what theses half wit sceintist say with a grain of salt, swole cat knows more then most if not all of these dumbass know it all scintist.

Someone sounds resentful of educated people.

It takes a little bit (hour or so) before food is converted into glucose.

If I eat something twenty minutes before working out, and then workout for forty minutes, how I am using the food I ate as a fuel source?

**SwoleCat** · 12-05-2003, 09:01 PM

CAPS:

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

Someone sounds resentful of educated people.

COME ON NOW, THAT'S NOT COOL..........

It takes a little bit (hour or so) before food is converted into glucose.

WHAT FOOD? ALL FOODS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. EACH FOOD IS "DELIVERED" IN IT'S OWN TIMEFRAME, AND THEY VARY GREATLY. TWO OPPOSITES WOULD BE DEXTROSE AND YAMS.

If I eat something twenty minutes before working out, and then workout for forty minutes, how I am using the food I ate as a fuel source?

HOW MUCH DID YOU EAT BEFORE? WHAT WAS IT COMPRISED OF? THE POINT WAS MAKING SURE ONE'S CARDIO SESSION IS AS PRODUCTIVE AS POSSIBLE.
EVEN IF ONE WERE TO DO IT AFTER WORKING OUT TO BE ASSURED GLYCOGEN WAS DEPLETED, THUS BEING ABLE TO ENTER THE FAT BURNING ZONE QUICKLY, DOING CARDIO AFTER WEIGHTS IS NOT SOMETHING I'D ENDORSE. IF YOUR DIET IS RIGHT, YOU HAVE PERIODS OF FAT BURNING AND PERIODS OF ANABOLISM. OVER TIME, THIS CONTRIBUTES TO QUITE THE BODY COMPOSITION CHANGE.

~SC~

**rainbowsheep** · 12-05-2003, 09:16 PM

Well, when his post contained phases like take my advise and take what theses half wit sceintist say with a grain of salt and these dumbass know it all scintist... he's definitely attacking someone.

**SwoleCat** · 12-05-2003, 09:19 PM

Yeah, he's attacking those dumb ass know-it-all scientists! LOL!!

It's all good bro, we're all here to chop it up and enjoy one another's company.

~SC~