Once again cutting diet

**RON** · 12-01-2003, 09:10 PM

As of today I'm 265 17%bf. I have been off cycle for some time. I am going to stay clean till next spring. I am trying to cut rapidly while not loosing too much muscle. If I can get to about 10-12%Bf by mid spring that would be great. The problem is everytime I cut with out gear I always waist too much muscle.

I'm not that happy with my pre-workout meal but I'm open for improvement anywhere. This is pretty much my base I've been mixing the meats around shrimp/steak/chicken from day to day. I hate non shelled fish so tuna isn't even an option. I'm thinking of maybe some salad somewhere too.

Maybe every other day I'll replace lunch with a chicken or shrimp salad.

Cut it apart and make it better then put it back together

Water 2-3 gallons a day around 2-2.5 most of the time
6:00 30 min of cardio. Next week I'm upping to 45.
supplements 1 stacker2 (ECA) pre cardio
7:00 meal-1 1 cup of oats with spenda, 4 eggwhites and 1 whole egg scrambled
Supplements BCAA- Omega 3 Fish/Flax oil- Multi Vitamin
10:00 meal-2 Protein shake-Optimum
1:00 Meal-3 8oz Jumbo shrimp boiled and served in a Low Carb Wheat tortilla
supplements 1 stacker 2 (ECA)
4:00 meal-4 EAS low carb Protein bar
5:00 hit the weights

supplements 1 stacker2 (ECA) pre work out
6:00 PWO shake 44 grams of protein 40 grams of dextrose
7:30 PPWO meal 8oz chicken breast
10:00 22 more grams of protein Via protein shake before bed

Total Cals 1800
55% protein
33%carbs
12%fat

**bigsd67** · 12-01-2003, 09:34 PM

at your size 1800 calories is fat too little, which leads to you losing muscle...i would keep the carbs around the same..add vegetables....green veggies are key to any cutting diet...low carbs and mostly fiber...i would take those 20 grams of carbs from the EAS bar and substitute with a low fat protein source and 4 cups of veggies. also you can add more fat using flax oil, nuts (not peanuts), and olive oil.

**RON** · 12-01-2003, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by bigsd67

at your size 1800 calories is fat too little, which leads to you losing muscle...i would keep the carbs around the same..add vegetables....green veggies are key to any cutting diet...low carbs and mostly fiber...i would take those 20 grams of carbs from the EAS bar and substitute with a low fat protein source and 4 cups of veggies. also you can add more fat using flax oil, nuts (not peanuts), and olive oil.

I knew that was coming

I never eat enough Cals

I do have Flax in my diet in pill form. I've forced the nasty liquid down before before. I like the veggie idea too thanks bro

**bigsd67** · 12-01-2003, 09:53 PM

no prob...yea the liquid tastes like ****, but if you put it into ur late nite shake you wont taste it...or add it a teaspoon at a time throughout your meals..just make sure that you dont put in too many grams of fat for a high carb meal.....dollar for dollar the liquid is much better because you get 14 grams of fat with 6 grams of omega 3 compared to 1 gram in the pills.

on a side note take your weight and multiply by 12 and that is an AVERAGE number of calories you can consume and still lose weight. If you are losing more than 2lbs per week you are killing muscle. I eat 50% protein and vary carbs and fat depending on whether or not it's an off day....for a good diet check out www.t-mag.com and search for t-dawg 2.0 and dont worry im not a marketing person for them.

**nmk85roll** · 12-01-2003, 09:59 PM

I'm kinda thinking you need some PRE workout carbs as well. Something low in GI, but will give you a consistant boost of energy for your workout.

**RON** · 12-01-2003, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by bigsd67

but if you put it into ur late nite shake you wont taste it

Bull ****. I taste that nasty crap

I'll end up drinking it again cause the pills never have enough mgs of flax. It makes everything taste like castor oil.

BTW I've read the 2lbs a week thing before too. I'm used to 10. If I can only keep my muscle with 2 lbs a week I'll have to go back to cutting with gear to help keep muscle.

**bigsd67** · 12-01-2003, 10:23 PM

well if you've been off for long enough then why the hell not..then you can stay at 1800 and let the gear keep your muscle.

**RON** · 12-02-2003, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by bigsd67

well if you've been off for long enough then why the hell not..then you can stay at 1800 and let the gear keep your muscle.

Twist my arm why don't you.

**BDTR** · 12-02-2003, 01:20 AM

Ron... those pretty yellow caps are calling you.... "take me... take me ron!" as they yell at you.

**RON** · 12-02-2003, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by bdtr

Ron... those pretty yellow caps are calling you.... "take me... take me ron!" as they yell at you.

Ya I know I was Just gonna try cutting without anything for a few months. Guess it was just a pipe dream Huh? **** it. Time to fire up the lab

**SwoleCat** · 12-02-2003, 08:11 AM

CAPS.......

Originally Posted by Peter North

Why dont you add an apple to your preworkout meal to provide your body with carbs, needed for the workout to come, and fiber for digestive benefits. HMMMM INTERESTING YOU MENTION THIS, AS AN APPLE IS ONE THING I SUGGEST BEFORE A WORKOUT ON ONE OF MY PROGRAMS (I HAVE 3), BUT IT'S NOT FOR CARBS OR ENERGY. FRUCTOSE GOES TO THE LIVER ONLY, AND THE REST IS STORED AS FAT ONCE THAT IS FULL. MY REASONING TO INCLUDE IT IS ON LOW CARBS WHERE IT CAN STILL BENEFIT YOU BY HELPING T4/T3 CONVERSION TO STAY ACTIVE WITHOUT AFFECTING INSULIN LEVELS. IT WILL NOT PROVIDE A "BOOST" PRE-WORKOUT.

Also having only one meal with carbs after your workout is IMO not enough to retain muscle when cutting. I would lower carb intake earlier in the day and then add carbs to your diet after working out both in the form of a PWO shake and a PWO meal an 1 -2 hr later or so. MANY ONLY HAVE ONE MEAL AFTER WORKING OUT, DEPENDENT UPON HOW MUCH TIME THEY HAVE LEFT IN THE DAY. TWO MEALS IS BEST HOWEVER.

also your "breakfast" meal looks to be lacking sufficent protein. i have it broken down as 44g C (5g from fiber) and roughly 25g Pro. Also why take flax at the same time you are intaking carbs? FLAX OIL IS DIFFERENT THAN REGULAR FATS.

the insulin spike would only lessen your chance of burning your dietary fat source. HE WON'T BURN IT ANYHOW UNLESS HE IS IN KETOSIS, WHICH HE IS NOT, SO THAT WON'T HAPPEN. IF HE CHOOSES OATS, THERE WILL BE NO INSULIN SPIKE ANYHOW.

Also i would probably add some healthy fats to your 3rd meal of the day to increase calories after your insulin spike has subsided. WHAT SPIKE???

I think i would also strive for at least 45g Pro in each meal and add more healthy fats (properly timed) to increase caloric intake. And It wouldn't hurt to throw some ALA/R-ALA in your carb meals either to cut your insulin spike. PN

**ENraged** · 12-02-2003, 10:31 AM

Yea bro you are my size you need around 3500 cals to lose weight and maint the muscle you already have. I have been cycling between 4200 -2500 and it works out very well. I have not lost any of my muscle size and my waist is steadly shrinking. in a few months the fina and prop are taking over