Hunger at night

[beenie]

How can I curb my night time hunger?

I am trying to cut bf%. I have been low carb dieting for 2.5 years. Very low like 10grams/day carb.

Recently, I upped my carb intake to about 40g/day on the advice of several board members. FYI, it gave me no boost in energy and added about 10 lbs of fat (or water weight) so it seems counter productive to my goals.

My progress has been very slow. I am cutting my carb intake back down to rd myself of the bloating, and I think I am doing everything right, with the exception of amount I eat.

I lift 4 days a week (two days on 1 day off). I do cardio 5 days a week. I do about 90 minutes of cardio because I want fast results.

My theory has alway been to eat when I am hungry and not eat when I am not. Usually I am not very hungry in the day so I eat very light. I work out after work from about 630 to 930 or 10 (includes lifting and cardio). When I get home I am REALLY hungry so I eat. The problem is that I can't seem to stop eating. I keep waking up in the middle of the nigh feeling famished, so I eat more. They say not to eat after 9pm, but this would be impossible for me as I am working out past that hour and if I ate before that, I would not be able to work out. I don't feel comforatble taking an appitite surpressant as I fear it would affect my ability to sleep (although the meals at night are affecting it anyway I suppose).

As an example of what I am talking about, last night, between the hours of 10pm and 6am I ate:

1.5 lbs of boneless steak
.75 lbs of bonelss chicken with 1/4 cup mayo and 1 stick of cellery.
two whole eggs /w slice of swiss cheese
.50 lbs bacon
two bowls of keto crisp cerial (about 6 grams carb).

The point here is that I am eating a lot because I am hungry. I think that if I could cut down my food intake I could lose bf faster. Is there a way to do it without feeling hungry? I know as I boosted carbs the problem got prolifically worse. Also, I supplemt with vitamins heavily.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Flaco]

I think it is plain to see you might be overtraining. Three to three and a half hours in the gy is too much. I did the same same thing for a while but when I cut down m workouts to no more than an hour I saw some nice results.This thing about eating when im hungry does not seem right.Your hungry at night due to the fact that your deprieving yourself of good food during the day.Train your body to eat every three to four hours.(In your case small but nutritious portions). You can still cut down on carbs and do this.Good luck man

[arthurb999]

What are your stats?

[Billy Boy]

It seems to me that your body,s natural clock is out of line.For some reason it wakes up at night to continue a normal day when in fact you want to sleep.Cut back on the amount of time you spend in the gym and try to eat more during the day.When you eat at night your metabolic rate is much lower which means you store more bodyfat.Not good.

[Shredz]

i agree you are overtraining...you might be wanting to lose bodyfat..but at the same time with all this training..you are losing you muscle as well..keep doing cardio a lot but tone it down a bit..maybe go with cardio every other day or stay with 5 days a week but back it off to 40 mins. if you are doing 90mins and weight you must be in there for like 2 1/2 to 3 hours. That is crazy.

the best time to do cardio is right in the morning..cut it off you night work out and get out of the gym early..go home eat and get to bed. Question for yeah..if you are waking up so often during the night..then how are you getting into deep sleep REM sleep that is when you body takes most advantage of your rest. Eat a little more during the day. Cut back on you work outs. You say you train 4 days a week, with 2 on 1 off...that leaves you training 5 times a week..man way to much.expecially with all the cardio... you are slowly killing yourself. Just relax...redo you diet. Bacon in the middle of the night..a big no no..don't even eat bacon in the moring when you can eat some stuff that is not so good. Get rid of the cheese..very high in fat..and don't eat a whole egg. eat egg whites..

If you can't stand the taste of just whites..add some spices in it..or add one yoke for every 5 eggs. There is a lot of fat in a yoke. Also say bye bye to that mayo...if you want to cut bf% go hard with the diet or go home. that is where it is at..you can do all the cardio in the world..but if you diet is not hardcore all your cardio will do is maintain what you have.

also maybe you are waking up because you are training so late. I find when i train late at night i sometimes have trouble going to sleep..but if you cut out that cardio and do it in the moring you should be better off.

so get rid of some of those foods, cut back on cardio and do it in the moring and train a little less...try 4 days every week.

go with something like mon, tues on, wed off, thurs,fri on , sat sun off.

or mon on, tues off, wed on, thurs off. fri sat on, sun off

hope this helps.

[beenie]

ArthurB199>

My stats:

40 years old. Height 6' 5" Weigh 195 lbs. bf%=12-14%. Been working out for 2.5 years. I ordinarily lift for 1-1.5 hrs lifting (with breaks in between sets) and 40 minutes cardio on bulkin phase and 70-90 minutes cardio on cutting phase. Now I am TRYING to cut. I would really like to go down to single digit bf%. I have been working some with PartyboyNYC to develop a plan, and have been pretty good about sticking to it. There is a pic of me on the board somewhere I posted, but the issue is smushy lower abs. My current thought is that its my appitite that is standing in the way of me reaching my goal. That's why I posted the query here. Of course I was hoping that someone would have a magical pill I could take or something, because on a couple queries I have posted on other subjects responses have led to quick success for me.

As far as over training, I hate hearing that, but its not the first time. Several trainers in my gym have told me that I over train, but I just cannot understand how overtraining (if you want to call it that) can be detrimental. I understand that there may be diminishing marginal utlity in it, but why would it be counter productive? I want results and I want them fast.

[beenie]

Shredz said:
I agree you are overtraining...you might be wanting to lose bodyfat..but at the same time with all this training..you are losing you muscle as well..keep doing cardio a lot but tone it down a bit..maybe go with cardio every other day or stay with 5 days a week but back it off to 40 mins. if you are doing 90mins and weight you must be in there for like 2 1/2 to 3 hours. That is crazy.

I reply:
When my cardio was at 40 min my bf% was increasing- thats why I do 70-90 minutes now. I think I have lost some bulk, but my strength on lifting continues to increase even with the cardio. And yea, I averag 3 hours at the gym 4x/wk (sometimes come in on a 5th day for cardio only).

Shredz said:
the best time to do cardio is right in the morning..cut it off you night work out and get out of the gym early..go home eat and get to bed. Question for yeah..if you are waking up so often during the night..then how are you getting into deep sleep REM sleep that is when you body takes most advantage of your rest. Eat a little more during the day. Cut back on you work outs. You say you train 4 days a week, with 2 on 1 off...that leaves you training 5 times a week..man way to much.expecially with all the cardio... you are slowly killing yourself. Just relax...redo you diet. Bacon in the middle of the night..a big no no..don't even eat bacon in the moring when you can eat some stuff that is not so good. Get rid of the cheese..very high in fat..and don't eat a whole egg. eat egg whites..

I reply:
The point of cardio in am is to burn carbs, right? I am not ingesting any (in significant amounts). I go to sleep at midnight and wake up about three time maybe about an hour apart like 130, 230,and 4, after which point i sleep like a baby till 8. I guess 4-8 is when i get the rem sleep. I am also really wiped out a lot on saturday and i ofeten sleep a lot that day.

Shredz said:
If you can't stand the taste of just whites..add some spices in it..or add one yoke for every 5 eggs. There is a lot of fat in a yoke. Also say bye bye to that mayo...if you want to cut bf% go hard with the diet or go home. that is where it is at..you can do all the cardio in the world..but if you diet is not hardcore all your cardio will do is maintain what you have.

I reply: I know you are right on this. Even though Atkins say that there is no difference between protien and fat, I have learned through experience that my weight drops much faster when I restrict fat too. The problem is that with the fat restriction I alway feel crappy. My diet is already so limited that it restricts what I can eat down to about 3 or 4 things. Just the same your comment may inspire me o try it for a while.

Shredz said:
also maybe you are waking up because you are training so late. I find when i train late at night i sometimes have trouble going to sleep..but if you cut out that cardio and do it in the moring you should be better off.

I reply: I know you are right on this one too. On there rare occasions that I am able to get up early enough to go to the gym befoore work, I feel great all day. Maybe its just a matter of changing my pattern. Again, you have given me excellent stuff to consider.

Shredz said:
so get rid of some of those foods, cut back on cardio and do it in the moring and train a little less...try 4 days every week.

go with something like mon, tues on, wed off, thurs,fri on , sat sun off.

or mon on, tues off, wed on, thurs off. fri sat on, sun off

hope this helps.


I reply: Yea, I think it does.

[Shredz]

beenie said:
When my cardio was at 40 min my bf% was increasing- thats why I do 70-90 minutes now. I think I have lost some bulk, but my strength on lifting continues to increase even with the cardio. And yea, I averag 3 hours at the gym 4x/wk (sometimes come in on a 5th day for cardio only).



your bf is increasing because of the foods that i mentioned. great rid of those and replace them the leaner alternatives.

about you sleep..2 hours here 4 hours there. 2 hours here....is not as good as 8 hours straight..you are throwing you whole body off.

about the overtraining..look at it like this..if you body becomes catabolic..you are losing muscle mass..and i beleive you body is in this state because of the amount you are excercising the foods you are eating and your sleep paterns. With this loss in muscle mass you body doesn't burn as many calories as you would like. Yes this is minimal however you want fast results..and at this point everything counts. By you saying that on saturday you sometimes sleep all day..that is the one of the biggest indicators that you are overtraining..that and loss of appetite which you seem to have somewhat during the day.

Now be honest..a lot of people say they eat a certain way....and follow a very very strick diet..but i'd say about 85% cheat on there diet..if it wasn't so hard everyone would be huge and ripped. How often do u cheat...do you have a cheat day or a cheat meal..and when you cheat..what foods do you like to cheat with. Remember be honest..and then we can help.

it all comes down to this..it is up to you..to make that step..do dig down deep and work hard. And you will end up looking the way you have always wanted...

[beenie]

Shredz said:

Now be honest..a lot of people say they eat a certain way....and follow a very very strick diet..but i'd say about 85% cheat on there diet..if it wasn't so hard everyone would be huge and ripped. How often do u cheat...do you have a cheat day or a cheat meal..and when you cheat..what foods do you like to cheat with. Remember be honest..and then we can help.

I reply:

I can tell you that in 2 years I my diet I have NEVER cheated. I am being completely honest when I say that, so I guess that puts me in the 15% that don't cheat. It has been a big sacrifice and has been very difficult as I sometimes travel internationally and explaining what my dietary restrictions are is alien to many of the people with whom I deal, but I do. In actuality, my weight usually goes down when I travel becuase the portion sizes in resturants without the carbs are very small.


Shredz said:
it all comes down to this..it is up to you..to make that step..do dig down deep and work hard. And you will end up looking the way you have always wanted...


I reply:
Well I took the first step today after reading your post. I ate a Fudrucker 1lb burger for lunch. I have them hold everything but the patty and I eat it with mustard. It could have been leaner but, i didnt have the bacon or cheese that it comes with (because of the fat that you cited) and I actually ate luch even though I was not particularly hungry.

[Shredz]

you are on your way..you will do just fine...not to be to picky..but a burger...nahhhh..ask for a grilled chicken or a turkey burger..

alway get it with the bun...this way..by the time you get it.the bun has soaked up the little bit of grease..and then through away those carbs..BAD CARBS..yuck..and then chow down..

[beenie]

I acually pressed the buger into paper napkins to try to remove some of the greese. Ehhhwwwwww, it was pretty discusting.

[Shredz]

OK one more time...if you do not consider eating bacon and cheese, egg yokes and hamburger cheat expecially in the middle of the night this may be a helpless case.

i think we need to sit down and discuss exactly what you can and can't eat...PM me

[Tobey]

Another thing you might want to try. I have done this on a Temporaily basis only until my sleeping patterns got back into their proper prespective. Try taking a mild sedative before going to bed. Tylneol PM is a good one. Take it everynight for about 3 or 4 days then stop. You may have to start back for a couple of days but eventually you will get back into a good sleeping routine and you will begin to feel sleepy naturally late at night. Of course staying on the board late at night can screw this up as well. Make yourself logg off at a specific time. That way time will not get away from you and you will get a good nights sleep.
Tobey

[defdaz]

beenie,

good luck with changing your habits mate - keep us up to date on how you get on. I must say I am astonished at the amount of food you can put away at night!! Respect due for that alone.

However as you are fully aware your situation isn't ideal and so you are now actively trying to change things and top marks too for trying.

I know this probably isn't going to be very well accepted but it may be worth getting your hormone levels checked out throughly by a specialist, though I agree with the other in that I think by changing your habits you will solve your problems. It wouldn't hurt to get them investigated though.

Have you tried GABA bro? This stuff is great for helping you get a good nights sleep - a heaped teaspoon in water 10 mins before bedtime works an absolute treat...

def

PS Does your urine smell strongly of pear drops? You may be suffering from severe ketosis after such a long time on low carbs...

[beenie]

I have not had my hormone levels checked, whats your thinking on that? I am kind of reluctant to do it because I dont't want my steriod usage detected. Its been about 2 months since my cycle ended and I understand it can be detected for a lot longer. If they detect it, I am not sure what they can do to me, but I would hate to have my medical insurance taken away, or my employer informed, or God knows what else. I am not sure how others handle this situation.

No matter how much I eat, my weight rarealy goes up, probably related to the extensive cardio I do, so thats why I can eat as much as I do. But its not the weight I am concerned with, ist the bf% which simply has not been going down as fast as I would like. A cahnge I made yesterday at lunch time based on what Shedz told me was to reduce my fat intake. I am tryin this to see how long I can go. I am also making a consious effort to eat even when I am not hungry. Soooo, yesterday 1 lb beef patty for lunch,- 2 cans of tuna with mustard rather than mayo (ordinarily id have3 or four cans with mayo), and 6 eggwhites for breakfast this morning (ordinarily if I wanted breakfast b4, i'd have two whole eggs and .5 lb bacon maybe with a slice of swiss cheese).

I actually slept pretty well last night, having had the samller meal. At this point that may be a coinsidence. I think that the sleeping pills that you and Tobey suggest are a good idea. I have never taken them befire, but it might be a good idea, at least to have on hand.

Overall I would say I dont like this diet because there is really nothing tastee to eat in it. Before beginning my health effors 2.5 years ago I ate lots of pizza and even more bagels with lox! I miss those things so much, but with the elimination of those and the exersize I to I have completely transformed my body from about 275 lbs with 35%bf to 195, 12%. I just want to get to the next step, and if I see FAST result from the additional diet change I shall probably stick to it. Otherwise, I probably won't, becuase with the virtual elimination of fat, and of carbs, eating is not too much fun. If if helps me achieve the goal, the sacrifice will be worth it.

[defdaz]

beenie,

I just had a thought - you need to cycle your diet. Should have thought of this earlier. Look to the work of Dr. Dipasquale - a big proponent of the high fat / protein diet.

He recommends you do 5 days keto / 2 days high carb. Reasons are numerous, most important that staying on low carbs for long periods can be dangerous. Besides this the 2 days of high carbs helps your muscle to rebuild their glycogen stores etc. and also gives you a break mentally. You need to keep the fat low on these two days.

I'm sure if you do some searches on the search engines you will find sheds loads of info about the high fat diet so give it a go and LEARN!

Well done by the way on the tremendous fat loss so far, just don't go overboard - think how long it took to gain the fat in the first place!

def

[defdaz]

Sorry beenie - hormones play a part in the hunger reflex. Whilst the most influential factor is your stomach and how empty / full it is your blood sugar levels etc. also play a part.

I'd guess that after your marathon sessions in the gym you are extremely low in blood sugar and so you get these urges to eat... common sense eh? BUT you aren't eating foods high in carbs so the body struggles to get enough sugar into the blood... hence more hunger cravings despite eating loads. beenie... do you ever feel light headed?

When I do the high fat / protein diet I make sure I get the vast bulk of the carbs I eat on the low carb days after my workout session. It's okay to eat up to 50 grams of carbs per day - but only if you aren't eating too much fat / protein....

Though I studied Nutrition, Physiology and biochemistry at uni I'm no expert, but I would recommend you get some blood tests mate.

def

[beenie]

Wow, this makes a lot of sense to me, and it would explain a lot. I had been experiencing another problem resulting from my cardio which I was able to resolve a few weeks ago: severe leg cramps (also at night). That was solved with a huge increase in the amount of magnesium and calcium that I take (in addition to potasium, zinc, and sodium). When I was trying different stuff to correct that problem someone else suggested that I get a blood workup.

I still feel the need to resist seeking medical attention as it is likely to expose my use of gear. You are in the United Kingdom, but here medical insurance is private. If a doctor discovers my history the insurance company can cancel my coverage, they can report it to my employer, and as I have said, God knows what else. So as a result I am very reluctant to seek medical testing.

If someone knows, and can inform me of whether this is a well founded fear, I would appreciate any info, but I suspect it is.

[Shredz]

Originally posted by beenie

No matter how much I eat, my weight rarealy goes up, probably related to the extensive cardio I do, so thats why I can eat as much as I do. But its not the weight I am concerned with, ist the bf% which simply has not been going down as fast as I would like. A cahnge I made yesterday at lunch time based on what Shedz told me was to reduce my fat intake. I am tryin this to see how long I can go. I am also making a consious effort to eat even when I am not hungry. Soooo, yesterday 1 lb beef patty for lunch,- 2 cans of tuna with mustard rather than mayo (ordinarily id have3 or four cans with mayo), and 6 eggwhites for breakfast this morning (ordinarily if I wanted breakfast b4, i'd have two whole eggs and .5 lb bacon maybe with a slice of swiss cheese).

I actually slept pretty well last night, having had the samller meal. At this point that may be a coinsidence. I think that the sleeping pills that you and Tobey suggest are a good idea. I have never taken them befire, but it might be a good idea, at least to have on hand.
[/B]

Wow..now my man is learning..keep this up and you will see results in no time. Don't get me wrong the foods that I told you to eat are very boring to eat. No taste at all..but you want results and you want them fast. This is the only way to do it. Every one here has the same taste buds, we all enjoy a nice juicy burger but you have to learn that a 8 ounces of grilled chicken and tuna taste just as good.

How have you changed your cardio and work out..fill me in.if you keep up the diet like this you will be on your way..now lets work on your overtraining.

[beenie]

Sorry. Much to the chagrin of many of you, I have not, nor do I intend at this time to reduce my cardio. I cannot believe that I can make more progress with less effrt. It simply does not seem logical.

I intend to cut back to 30-40 minutes when I start trying to bulk again, which I expect will be in March.

For now, I am concentrating on eating and sleeping habits.

[Shredz]

Originally posted by beenie
Sorry. Much to the chagrin of many of you, I have not, nor do I intend at this time to reduce my cardio. I cannot believe that I can make more progress with less effrt. It simply does not seem logical.

I intend to cut back to 30-40 minutes when I start trying to bulk again, which I expect will be in March.

For now, I am concentrating on eating and sleeping habits.

what about doing it in the moring so you are not spend 3 or more hours in a the gym in a row..that is what i would do..I love the gym brother..but you don't want to cause yourself to get sick of it.

[beenie]

I've been sick of it since I started, but I keep going. I got goals to achieve!

[Shredz]

like i said..duing cardio in the moring is better for you then doing cardio at night..if you want to lose that BF then you better get started on duing you cardio in the moring before you eat anything.

this way..while you sleep at night you body uses up most of the carbs..just to keep you alive and to repair muscles and to do what ever else it needs to do while you sleep. So when you wake up..you body has been depleted of almost all its carbs..so if you hit that cardio..you bodies only alternative is to burn fat.

like i said if you want fast results..you will have to do this.

[beenie]

I really hate cutting all/most of the fat out of my diet. How many grams of fat/day may I have. I am pretty close to 0 now and I hate it (although it is already helping as I have dropped about 3 lbs).

Question I wanted to ask about, and maybe this should be a new thread was about soy protien. I like to use that to cook. I use it as a flour sustitute. I have been limiting my intake of it for a while because someone told me that it turns to estrogen which casues the retention of bf. Know if that true. I eat a some soy protien anyway becuase that's what they make ketocrisip cerial out of. I would really like to make my soy protien pancakes which at least theortically are close to 0 carbs and 0g fat. I eat them with Atkins pancake surup, alo 0g carb and fat. It would be a welcome treat, but its a lotta soy.

[defdaz]

How are you getting on beenie? Are you eating less at night now (more in the day)?

You don't have to cut out all the fat - just most of it. You were taking in waaaaaay too much before and at the wrong time.

def