Bulking Diet questions...Need some Answers/review...

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Background
On 9/02 was at 245 @ 20% bodyfat as measured by a professional with skinfolds, at my gym, inaccurate I know. By 12/02 I cut down to 215 with no cardio but instead smaller portions, e.g. less calories in the day, and little fat.

By mid spring 03 I went with a Swolecat, like rambo's sticky, designed diet. It worked, got to after roughly 3 months got to a weight of 205 after re-retention of water due to increased carbs , but I did 45 minutes of cardio 6-7 times a week and only started losing weight when I started cutting a meal(s) out and decreasing portions/macronutrients throughout the days meal. I had my bodyfat measured here and it was at 12% according to the same fellow with skinfolds.

Recently went with Andre's Cutting plan, I have gotten to 180 and still falling daily. Cardio is done 4-6 times a week for 40-45 minutes. Calories are DRASTICALLY reduced, I consume roughly 135 protein, 100 carbs(including fibrous), and 10 fat, for a roughly 50/40/10 ratio.

Top 4 abs are kinda in, if pull down on the skin underneath when I flex them they become really visible. I'd say Im 10-12% body fat now as opposed to before at 205.

Im getting tired of cutting though over the past 1.5-2 years, although off and on. I want to eat normal, thus bulk, but I question if I should just keep cutting until when though?!

Heres my proposed bulking diets for workout days and non-WO days....

WORKOUT
TIME Enter Portion Calories Protein Carbs Fat Comments
7:00 AM Breakfast
Pro-Rated Protein 30.00 120.00 22.00 4.00 1.50 1 scoop
Egg Whites 150.00 75.00 15.90 1.20 0.00 4 Eggs
Oatmeal 40.00 150.00 5.00 27.00 3.00 1/2 Cup
TOTAL 190.00 345.00 42.90 32.20 4.50

9:30 AM Go Lean Cereal and milk
Kashi Go Lean 85.00 255.00 17.00 59.50 2.13 1 heaping cup
Skim Milk 250.00 91.00 8.80 13.00 0.30 250ML
Banana 150.00 138.00 1.54 35.14 0.72 1 banana
TOTAL 485.00 484.00 27.34 107.64 3.14

12:00 PM
Tuna Flaked Light Can 120.00 114.00 26.40 0.00 0.84 1 can
Flax Seed Oil 15.00 120.00 0.00 0.00 13.00 1 tbsp
Garden Salad Bag 80.0 12.2 0.8 2.4 0.2
Pro-Rated Protein 30.00 120.00 22.00 4.00 1.50 1 scoop
TOTAL 245.00 366.24 49.25 6.45 15.53

2:00 PM Turkey Sandwich
IGA 100% whole wheat bread 50.00 113.00 5.60 20.00 1.90 2 slices
Kraft Fat Free Singles 60.0 86.5 14.7 6.3 0.3 3 slices
Schneiders Lifestyle sliced turkey breast 100.00 76.67 20.00 1.67 0.67


TOTAL 210.0 276.2 40.3 28.0 2.9

WORKOUT 3:15-4:15
4:30 PM Protein Shake Post-workout meal 1
Dextrose 51.20 192.00 0.00 51.20 0.00 1/3 cup
Protein Powder 60.00 240.00 44.00 8.00 3.00 2 scoops

TOTAL 111.2 432.0 44.0 59.2 3.0

6:30 PM Sweet Potato w/ chicken & veggi dinner Post-workout meal 2
Chicken Breast Skinless Raw 200.0 220.0 46.2 0.0 2.5
Sweet Potato 225.00 236.25 3.71 54.63 0.68
Broccoli 200.0 56.0 6.0 10.5 0.7

TOTAL 625.0 512.3 55.9 65.1 3.9

9:00 PM
Chicken Breast Skinless Raw 200.0 220.0 46.2 0.0 2.5
Broccoli 200.0 56.0 6.0 10.5 0.7
TOTAL 400.0 276.0 52.1 10.5 3.2

11:00 PM Cottage Cheese, Fat, Protein Before bed snack
Flax Seed Oil 15.00 120.00 0.00 0.00 13.00 1 tbsp
Friendship 1% Cottage Cheese Curds 150.00 118.42 21.05 3.95 1.32
Pro-Rated Protein 45.00 180.00 33.00 6.00 2.25 1.5 scoop
TOTAL 210.0 418.4 54.1 9.9 16.6

DAILY TOTAL 2476.2 3110.1 365.8 319.0 52.6


DAYS OFF

TIME Enter Portion Calories Protein Carbs Fat Comments
8:30 AM Breakfast
Pro-Rated Protein 30.00 120.00 22.00 4.00 1.50 1 scoop
Egg Whites 150.00 75.00 15.90 1.20 0.00 4 Eggs
Oatmeal 40.00 150.00 5.00 27.00 3.00 1/2 Cup
TOTAL 190.00 345.00 42.90 32.20 4.50

10:45 AM
Flax Seed Oil 15.00 120.00 0.00 0.00 13.00 1 tbsp
Pro-Rated Protein 60.00 240.00 44.00 8.00 3.00 2 scoop
TOTAL 75.00 360.00 44.00 8.00 16.00

1:00 PM Premier Nutrition Odyssey bar (Costco) 80.00 300.00 30.00 20.00 9.00


TOTAL 80.00 300.00 30.00 20.00 9.00

3:00 PM Turkey Sandwich
IGA 100% whole wheat bread 50.00 113.00 5.60 20.00 1.90 2 slices
Kraft Fat Free Singles 60.0 86.5 14.7 6.3 0.3 3 slices
Schneiders Lifestyle sliced turkey breast 100.00 76.67 20.00 1.67 0.67


TOTAL 210.0 276.2 40.3 28.0 2.9

5:15 PM
Tuna Flaked Light Can 120.00 114.00 26.40 0.00 0.84 1 can
Flax Seed Oil 15.00 120.00 0.00 0.00 13.00 1 tbsp
Garden Salad Bag 80.0 12.2 0.8 2.4 0.2
TOTAL 215.0 246.2 27.2 2.4 14.0

7:30 PM Sweet Potato w/ chicken & veggi dinner
Chicken Breast Skinless Raw 200.0 220.0 46.2 0.0 2.5
Sweet Potato 100.00 105.00 1.65 24.28 0.30
Broccoli 200.0 56.0 6.0 10.5 0.7

TOTAL 500.0 381.0 53.8 34.8 3.5

10:00 PM Cottage Cheese, Fat, Protein Before bed snack
Flax Seed Oil 15.00 120.00 0.00 0.00 13.00 1 tbsp
Friendship 1% Cottage Cheese Curds 150.00 118.42 21.05 3.95 1.32
Pro-Rated Protein 45.00 180.00 33.00 6.00 2.25 1.5 scoop
TOTAL 210.0 418.4 54.1 9.9 16.6

DAILY TOTAL 1480.0 2326.9 292.3 135.4 66.4

[AbsolutelyLethal]

First I made this diet blindly by looking at the varied diets stickied above and archived in this section...Dont know how many calories I personally need a day to bulk, never bulked, nor do I know my true maintainance value....

Questions galore...
1) Can I can encorporate proteins bars during workouts days too, I know they arent recommended...I like them though for their ease....
2) Where do I add steaks?
3) Is it okay to add a mixute of simple and complex carbs during the day, I do enjoy fruits....
4) Ive always wondered...If milk has carbs, lactose, and you are suppose to consume carbs, Dextrose, post workout. So can milk be used instead of water for PWO Meal 1?
5) Only supps I plan to take are protein, creatine, multi vitamins, r-ALA, and Vitamin C....Anything else?

[bigsd67]

what i want to know is how in the hell could you have stuck to a diet eating only 1030 calories a day...my girl eats 1200 and that's pretty **** low!

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Its not hard...Its definitely against the body building grain and many would get catabolic but cutting calories, eating mostly simple carbs (fruits, bread, etc) and protein with no carbs has always worked best for me.

Its still "a lot" of food...
Breakfast - 4 egg whites and banana
Snack - Small protein bar or half a big one
Lunch - Lettuce, fibrous veggies, can of tuna, salsa
Snack - 2 Slices of turkey, 2 slices of no fat cheese, 2 slices of light cal bread
Dinner - Roughly 4 oz of chicken, lettuce, fibrous veggies, salsa
Late night - Roughly 5-6 oz of cottage cheese

Plus I throw in like 7 oz of strawberries during the day somewhere....

[SwoleCat]

Keep eating like that, and 12 year old basketball players are going to be jumpin' you for lunch money.

That "drastic" level is absurd. You aren't going to eat like that forever, and you can't, so what happens once you begin to eat "normally" again?

Exactly!

Better make sure you begin to make exercise a solidified part of your daily life, and up those calories to support/gain lean mass, that's the only thing to save you as you get older. This quick fix "less than a girl" (as suggested above) intake has you set-up for hard times......you may be losing weight extremely quick, but that's a no brainer (fat AND MUSCLE) seeing as you take in such a petty amount of kcals.

I most certainly wouldn't ever go that low, but what do I know?

~SC~

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Swole I plan to bump calories up progressively...1250 then 1500 then 1750 then 2000 etc each time planning to have my body acclamaite(spelling) to the KCals and hope to not gain any weight....

I went on a Cruise over Christmas break time for two weeks and gorged myself. I came back "10 lbs" heavier but like in 7-10 days of dieting it was gone....

Catabolism...I can show you picks of me at 245, 215, 205, 190, 180....I look "smaller" but I lost fat mass around my body...

Let's get off the previous diet questions though please....Could someone answer the ones above....

Ill repeat them...
1)Should I keep cutting...
2) Can I can encorporate proteins bars during workouts days too, I know they arent recommended...I like them though for their ease....
3) Where do I add steaks?
4) Is it okay to add a mixute of simple and complex carbs during the day, I do enjoy fruits....Im also Curious as to why in "Shawn Ray's Bulk Diet" he eat PBJ sandwichs at night....
5) Ive always wondered...If milk has carbs, lactose, and you are suppose to consume carbs, Dextrose, post workout. So can milk be used instead of water for PWO Meal 1?
6) Only supps I plan to take are protein, creatine, multi vitamins, r-ALA, and Vitamin C....Anything else?

[bigsd67]

a few answers in caps:

Swole I plan to bump calories up progressively...1250 then 1500 then 1750 then 2000 etc each time planning to have my body acclamaite(spelling) to the KCals and hope to not gain any weight....

I went on a Cruise over Christmas break time for two weeks and gorged myself. I came back "10 lbs" heavier but like in 7-10 days of dieting it was gone....

Catabolism...I can show you picks of me at 245, 215, 205, 190, 180....I look "smaller" but I lost fat mass around my body...

Let's get off the previous diet questions though please....Could someone answer the ones above....

Ill repeat them...
1)Should I keep cutting...
THIS IS YOUR CALL, PERSONALLY I WOULDN'T BULK TIL I WAS AT LEAST 8% FAT SO MY BF% WOULDNT GET TO HIGH IN THE PROCESS
2) Can I can encorporate proteins bars during workouts days too, I know they arent recommended...I like them though for their ease....
THEY ARE CONVENIENT I KNOW, BUT MOST OF THEM HAVE FALSE AMOUNTS OF NUTRIENTS, MORE FAT AND CARBS AND LESS PROTEIN. THERE REALLY ISNT A BAR OUT THAT IS 100%TRUTHFUL. SHAKES ARE A BETTER CHOICE.
3) Where do I add steaks?
WHEN BULKING, I STILL WOULD REALLY TRY TO CONTROL INSULIN, THEREFORE I WOULD ONLY EAT CARBS FOR BREAKFAST AND TWO PWO MEALS, JUST IN LARGER QUANTITIES SO THEREFORE ASIDE FROM THOSE THREE MEALS YOU CAN EAT A STEAK. BEFORE WORKING OUT IS A GOOD CHOICE.
4) Is it okay to add a mixute of simple and complex carbs during the day, I do enjoy fruits....Im also Curious as to why in "Shawn Ray's Bulk Diet" he eat PBJ sandwichs at night....
I WOULD STILL STICK WITH AS MANY LOW GI COMPLEX CARBS AS POSSIBLE; GRAINS, YAMS, BROWN RICE AND OCCASIONAL FRUITS ARE GOOD CHOICES..SIMPLE CARBS LEADS TO FAT GAIN NOT MUSCLE GAIN.
5) Ive always wondered...If milk has carbs, lactose, and you are suppose to consume carbs, Dextrose, post workout. So can milk be used instead of water for PWO Meal 1?
WELL MILK DOES CONTAIN THE SUGAR LACTOSE, BUT IT IS ALSO A LOW GI FOOD. THIS MEANS THAT IT MAY HINDER THE INSULIN SPIKE NECESSARY PWO. I KNOW OF A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT USE IT PWO, BUT PERSONALLY I WOULDNT RISK NOT HAVING THE INSULIN SPIKE BECAUSE THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MEAL OF YOUR DAY.
6) Only supps I plan to take are protein, creatine, multi vitamins, r-ALA, and Vitamin C....Anything else? I WOULD TAKE BIOTIN WITH R-ALA AND ALSO VANADYL SULFATE (BOTH VERY CHEAP)

That's basically what i would do, it is an opinionated response and i will admit that and take whatever you want from it.

[SwoleCat]

Vanadyl Sulfate? Where did you get that idea? LOL!!!!!

BTW, Shawn Ray eats PB&J while bulking because he has every drug known to man at his disposal. Needless to say, this is not an intelligent/realistically applicable approach to gaining "quality" mass.

~SC~

[bigsd67]

Vanadyl Sulfate? Where did you get that idea? LOL!!!!!
~SC~

Oh yea did i forget to acknowledge that..oops...special thanks to some guy with a funky name who knows his $hit real well....any guesses who??

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Is this an isolated article find here or a general consensus?
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psycho...ylsulfate.html

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Also how much should I cut Kcal by on non-workout days....

[daman1]

Also how much should I cut Kcal by on non-workout days....

200-300 I would say.

[fritz2435]

Simply removing the postworkout meal removes over 350 cals. (160cal pro and 200cal carb) Then, you can just nudge your preworkout meal a half hour to an hour later.