Dextrose post-cardio/lifting?

**Bevo** · 02-10-2004, 09:30 PM

I'm currently on cutting diet similar to the one in the How to Cut sticky above...quesiotn is that only time I have to do cardio is right after i lift...usually lift for around 45 min, then hit low intensity cardio for about 30-45 min...immediately following cardio have my regular PWO Shake (50g Whey, 80g Dextrose)...this seems right, but should I take it immediately, wait, or ????...thanks...

**SwoleCat** · 02-10-2004, 11:10 PM

You have to take it immediately, because doing cardio after working out tends to lend a hand towards catabolism, so the quicker the better after cardio.

Of course, you then completely blunt lipolysis and sell yourself really short in the cutting efforts, but then again you suggested your schedule does not allow you to seperate the two.

~SC~

**bigsd67** · 02-11-2004, 07:14 AM

Well I'm going to pose the question to you of what about your schedule makes it impossible to do AM cardio?

A friend of mine competed recently and he also works a full time job that began at 6:00am...he woke up at 4 AM every day to do cardio...now i know for the most part many dont wake up that early and i know that it was because he had a very strict regimen with a tough goal in mind, but it just shows that if you really really want something you will stop at nothing to get it...even if it means going to bed at 10pm and waking up at 4 or 5 am...JMO dont take offense

**will86** · 02-11-2004, 07:44 PM

****... i sleep at 9!

**bigsd67** · 02-12-2004, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by will86

****... i sleep at 9!

of course the earlier the better...7-8 hours sleep is key to successful training.

**clubbinkid** · 02-12-2004, 09:17 PM

same here im doin cardio around 4:30 am 4 days a week then the otha days i doit when i get first get up.....it blows no doubt about but after ur done u feel great and it out of the way for the day........also if u want the results u goota have disicipline an toughness ...it will all pay off

**Valmont** · 02-13-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bevo

I'm currently on cutting diet similar to the one in the How to Cut sticky above...quesiotn is that only time I have to do cardio is right after i lift...usually lift for around 45 min, then hit low intensity cardio for about 30-45 min...immediately following cardio have my regular PWO Shake (50g Whey, 80g Dextrose)...this seems right, but should I take it immediately, wait, or ????...thanks...

I wouldn't recommend dextrose to someone who is triing to cut. I am sure the nutrition company here has something better. It is becoming outtdated.

Dextrose can be beneficial, however, one of the drawbacks to large amounts of dextrose consumption is the fact that it has a high degree of osmolality, which is a measure of the concentration of a given particle in solution.

A solution with a high rate of osmolality cause more water to be retained in the stomach, Dextrose, being such a compound binds water from areas like the small intestine, blood, etc., which can in many people give you cramps or that bloated feeling. Something alot of people wouldn't find that particuarly desirable when during postworkout cardio.

Peace

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 10:47 AM

Noooooooooo. You shouldn't be taking ANY carbs right after cardio if you're trying to cut up. You're really just wasting your time doing the cardio if you're just going to give your body something else to burn besides body fat. If you're just trying to increase indurance, then fine, it doesn't matter, but it you're cutting, wait as long as you can before eat or drink anything besides plain water. Your gains will slow down by doing it that way, but you'll probably feel bigger because of the definition you'll gain.

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

Noooooooooo. You shouldn't be taking ANY carbs right after cardio if you're trying to cut up. You're really just wasting your time doing the cardio if you're just going to give your body something else to burn besides body fat. If you're just trying to increase indurance, then fine, it doesn't matter, but it you're cutting, wait as long as you can before eat or drink anything besides plain water. Your gains will slow down by doing it that way, but you'll probably feel bigger because of the definition you'll gain.

Are you serious? Telling someone not to take something to spike his insulin p.w.? That is ridiculous and dangerous. Any type of stress on the CNR without proper nutrients can have serious side effects such as insulin shock. You NEED to take something to being back blood sugars to normal.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

Are you serious? Telling someone not to take something to spike his insulin p.w.? That is ridiculous and dangerous. Any type of stress on the CNR without proper nutrients can have serious side effects such as insulin shock. You NEED to take something to being back blood sugars to normal.

I don't know why you think you have to spike your insulin post workout, but you don't and it's not dangerous at all. Unless you have some kind of serious medical condition, you're not going to go into insulin shock either. There's a hyrarchy when it comes to where the body will get energy from and carbs is at the top of the list. The whole purpose for doing cardio is normally to burn fat and you have to exhaust everything else before you get to burning fat. If you add carbs, your body will not worry about burning fat and will just burn the carbs you've just ingested.

We've had our differences in opinion before, but I really don't know where you got the idea that you can go into insulin shock or that you need an insulin spike after cardio. I've never had to worry about cardio personally, but I've worked with a lot of people over the years and I've always told them to only drink water after cardio and nobody has had any ill effect.

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

We've had our differences in opinion before, but I really don't know where you got the idea that you can go into insulin shock or that you need an insulin spike after cardio. I've never had to worry about cardio personally, but I've worked with a lot of people over the years and I've always told them to only drink water after cardio and nobody has had any ill effect.

I didn't GET the idea of insulin shock. It's been proven time and time again by doctors across the world. Secondly, I never said you WOULD go into insulin shock, just that it COULD happen. And if you say you don't need any p.w. nutrition then I think you would in disagreement with 99% of the members on this board and over 1000 years of science. Saying you don't need p.w. nourishment is like saying when someone falls out of a tree and break thier leg that they don't need to go to a doctor, they should get up and tough it out.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

I didn't GET the idea of insulin shock. It's been proven time and time again by doctors across the world. Secondly, I never said you WOULD go into insulin shock, just that it COULD happen. And if you say you don't need any p.w. nutrition then I think you would in disagreement with 99% of the members on this board and over 1000 years of science. Saying you don't need p.w. nourishment is like saying when someone falls out of a tree and break thier leg that they don't need to go to a doctor, they should get up and tough it out.

I don't know where you get your info from. I am a doctor, and I know when you need post workout nutrition and when you don't. If you're trying to cut fat, you don't need, nor should you have any post workout nutrition except for water.

Insulin shock is when you have too much insulin in your body and not enough sugar for it to break down or when glucose is released into to the body too rapidly. By excercising, this can only be done with a very sudden increase in excercise (like suddenly going from sitting in a chair all do to an all out run for 10-15 mins) and even then it only normally happens to diabetics. So by ingesting something that will cause an insulin spike, you are actually raising your chances of hypoglycemic shock (though very slightly).

There are some people that would disagree with me, such as yourself (you seem to try to disagree with anything I have to say), but I doubt 99% of the people on this board are that ignorant. If I said not to drink any water, then you'd have a point, but I'm not saying that. The human body needs to burn fuel for energy. It goes for carbs, glycogen, then fat (to keep it very simple). If you add more carbs, you start the process from the beginning and slow the burning of fat if not stop it all together.

As far as 1000 years of science, once again, I don't know where you get your ideas from. The medical field has gone through massive changes over the past 1000 years, but I'm not going to get into that now.

And that is a horrible analogy. One thing has nothing in the world to do with the other.

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

I don't know where you get your info from. I am a doctor, and I know when you need post workout nutrition and when you don't. If you're trying to cut fat, you don't need, nor should you have any post workout nutrition except for water.

Insulin shock is when you have too much insulin in your body and not enough sugar for it to break down or when glucose is released into to the body too rapidly. By excercising, this can only be done with a very sudden increase in excercise (like suddenly going from sitting in a chair all do to an all out run for 10-15 mins) and even then it only normally happens to diabetics. So by ingesting something that will cause an insulin spike, you are actually raising your chances of hypoglycemic shock (though very slightly).

There are some people that would disagree with me, such as yourself (you seem to try to disagree with anything I have to say), but I doubt 99% of the people on this board are that ignorant. If I said not to drink any water, then you'd have a point, but I'm not saying that. The human body needs to burn fuel for energy. It goes for carbs, glycogen, then fat (to keep it very simple). If you add more carbs, you start the process from the beginning and slow the burning of fat if not stop it all together.

As far as 1000 years of science, once again, I don't know where you get your ideas from. The medical field has gone through massive changes over the past 1000 years, but I'm not going to get into that now.

And that is a horrible analogy. One thing has nothing in the world to do with the other.

If you spent as much time doing research as you do throwing these bull**** answers around MAYBE people would buy your thoughts. But I already know of several people who think your responses are a bunch of horse****. I doubt your a doctor. If you were you would know that the energy excreted during exercise causes you to drop in insulin levels which can cause going into a shock. But I'm sure you already knew that "doc." Go throw your dumb**** answers to people who are gullible, because your gulla-BULL Jack.

**J-F** · 02-13-2004, 03:32 PM

With all the respect i hold on to you DBarcerlo, i must say that Lifting+Cardio without my shake really make me felt bad and dizzy...

i had problem sleeping, and i always woked-up with head aches (i might not spell this one right)

But i totaly agree with the fact that you stop-burning fat and reduce fat loss effort...

maybe it is only me...

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by J-F

With all the respect i hold on to you DBarcerlo, i must say that Lifting+Cardio without my shake really make me felt bad and dizzy...

i had problem sleeping, and i always woked-up with head aches (i might not spell this one right)

But i totaly agree with the fact that you stop-burning fat and reduce fat loss effort...

maybe it is only me...

You may blunt fat-loss a bit, but it is something your body NEEDS.

**hoss827** · 02-13-2004, 03:54 PM

PWN (post workout nutrition) is one of THE most important things when it comes to bodybuilding. Even if you are lifting. Your body is in a catobolic state and needs protein!

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 04:24 PM

And furthermore you do your "water only p.w." and what you THINK works. I'll stick with what weighttrainers have been doing for 50 years.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 04:28 PM

Daman1- Yes, your insulin level does drop when you workout, as does your glucose level. Since the body deals with homeostasis, as long as both drop, it won't put you into shock (yes, I did know that). If what you said were true, there would be a lot of people dropping in sports clubs around the world.

If people think my answers are bull, Oh well, I can't say I care. I'm giving it out for free. I've been dealing with this stuff for longer than half of you have been alive. My only disadvantage is the changes in medical knowledge since I was in med school. For example, I would argue that you would be ready to die of hunger before you would ever go into insulin shock because when I was in school there was a theory called "glucostatic hunger" which basically says that part of why we get hungry is because glucose levels in the blood drop below a certain threshold. I know there have been some changes to that theory and I don't know what they are, so I can't really bring it up.

If you doubt my credentials, call NYU Medical school.

I don't know why you have such a personal problem with me. All you have to do is give a scientific explination for something you disagree with me about, and not just say I should believe you because that's what you think most people believe. You would have an argument that my responses are bull, but I can always backup what I say and advise with medical facts when I need to. I do try to keep it as simple as possible because not everyone needs all of the details.

J-F - I'm not refering to bulking and doing cardio or post workout nutrition after anerobic exercise, I am only talking about arobic excercise. And even when you are skiping a post workout meal when cutting it's not abnormal to feel a little lightheaded and if you stay active even dizzy, nautious, etc because your brain needs carbs to function. I wouldn't suggest going to be without having eaten anything after doing cardio either (if your body can handle it, fine, but I wouldn't suggest it). But drinking water helps a lot.

hoss - I agree with you. Post workout nutrition is very important in bodybuilding, but like I told J-F, we're not talking about bodybuilding, we're talking about breaking down. As you put it, your body is in a catabolic state after both anerobic and aerobic excercise but at different degrees. If you want to lose, then you want to keep that catabolic state going for as long as possible. Just make sure you drink plenty of water (not a whole lot at one time either).

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

I don't know why you have such a personal problem with me. All you have to do is give a scientific explination for something you disagree with me about, and not just say I should believe you because that's what you think most people believe.

I don't THINK most people believe it. I KNOW people believe it and they apply it to thier routines. You can throw technical facts and **** around but whether it be cardio or weight training the simple fact remains that energy is used and it needs to be replenished. I don't need to waste my time looking up factual info. I use what HAS worked for me and every other person I have talked to or trained with. You keep looking it up and typing it out. I'll be out getting bigger and leaner while your sitting behind a keyboard typing.

**longhornDr** · 02-13-2004, 06:00 PM

DBarcelo-

The dude is talking about doing cardio after lifting.

It would be asinine to not have a postworkout meal after lifting+cardio, no matter what your goal is....unless your goal is to perhaps obtain the physique of an AIDS patient.

And if you were only doing cardio it would still be stupid to not have at least a protein shake afterwards, as a protein shake would not inhibit lypolysis but it would inhibit protein catabolism.

**SwoleCat** · 02-13-2004, 06:09 PM

Finally someone (longhornDr above) explained that you all were arguing TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

After cardio for lipolysis, post-workout (should be dubbed post-cardio, as I don't consider cardio for fat burning a workout) carbs are a very stupid idea, dextrose or not.

PWO, not having any pwo carbs (mainly dextrose) is a VERY good idea.

You both were arguing diff. points.

~SC~

**bigsd67** · 02-13-2004, 06:57 PM

yea i was going to say that PWO nutrition and Post CARDIO nutrition are totally different...daman is arguing for PWO as in LIFTING....DBarcelo is arguing for PWO CARDIO....time to clear the air.

**bigsd67** · 02-13-2004, 06:58 PM

yea i was going to say that PWO nutrition and Post CARDIO nutrition are totally different...daman is arguing for PWO as in LIFTING....DBarcelo is arguing for PWO CARDIO....time to clear the air.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

And furthermore you do your "water only p.w." and what you THINK works. I'll stick with what weighttrainers have been doing for 50 years.

Like I pointed out before, a weighttrainer is not going to do things that way because that involves breaking down not building up. I have had good results with that method of losing fat for several years.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 07:35 PM

I thought I had made it pretty clear that I was talking about cutting fat and even differentiated it from bodybuilding. I'm sorry if I wasn't as clear as I thought I was being on that point. I do know the original question was regarding doing cardio after working out, but the main concern seemed to be with cutting and losing fat. I should have also added that I have always had people eat before the cardio training (something like oatmeal).

I actually did differentiate it in my response to J-F (I accidently wrote "be" instead of "bed").

LonghornDr- Like I just said, I know he was talking about doing cardio after working out, but his main goal at this point seems to be to lose the fat and cut up, that's why I gave the advise I did. When I have a person that wants to lose a lot of weight, I have them work with weights (high reps, low weight (normally women anyway so that works best for them)) and then I have them do cardio, then I advise them to not eat for as long as they can but normally no more than two or three hours. I've had people burn off fat very quickly using that method. I also try to have them do it at least 5 times a week.

I'm sorry to everyone for all of this back and forth stuff, but for some reason Daman just likes to contradict everything I say on here. I have nothing against the dude at all really, all I ask is that he pay attention to what I'm saying and be openminded. I'm open to new things (like I said, I've been doing this for about 20 years now and I know a lot of my old school stuff is outdated) you just have to back it up with some facts before I decide to agree with you. We had another debate going about M1T actually being methylated, someone finally gave a compound showing that's methylated after about three days and then I dropped that part of the argument, I accepted it.

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

I'm sorry to everyone for all of this back and forth stuff, but for some reason Daman just likes to contradict everything I say on here. I have nothing against the dude at all really, all I ask is that he pay attention to what I'm saying and be openminded. I'm open to new things (like I said, I've been doing this for about 20 years now and I know a lot of my old school stuff is outdated) you just have to back it up with some facts before I decide to agree with you. We had another debate going about M1T actually being methylated, someone finally gave a compound showing that's methylated after about three days and then I dropped that part of the argument, I accepted it.

I thought you were talking about p.w.o. nutrition for weight training. That is why I disagreed with you. I did not recognize you were discussing just cardio.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 08:34 PM

My first post.....

"Noooooooooo. You shouldn't be taking ANY carbs right after cardio if you're trying to cut up."

Nope, I was talking about cardio because it seemed the guys main concern was to get cut up. That's why I said that people have to pay attention to what I say. That seems to be my main problem with people taking what I say out of context. Skip one sentence and you miss my whole meaning.

No hard feelings though. You keep me on my toes if nothing else.

**daman1** · 02-13-2004, 08:42 PM

I just skimmed your post and saw what I saw and got excited. But yes we were arguing for two completely different. Nonetheless, I was getting overexcited for something that wasn't even being talked about. I am sorry, it was my fault Dbarcelo.

**DBarcelo** · 02-13-2004, 09:54 PM

No problem bro. Like I said, no hard feelings.

**Elliot** · 02-14-2004, 12:12 AM

so is it okay to weight train then do cardio and have a isolate shake..?

dbarcelo can you pull some strings for me at nyu med in the upcoming year?

**DBarcelo** · 02-14-2004, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Elliot

so is it okay to weight train then do cardio and have a isolate shake..?

dbarcelo can you pull some strings for me at nyu med in the upcoming year?

Yeah, if you're concerned with losing too much muscle while you're cutting. I personally don't have to cut often at all (only twice in my life), but when I do, I just want to get it done and over with as quickly as possible. I've lost as much as 20 lbs in a month by doing the water only thing with no ill effects. I didn't care about losing a little muscle mass in the process. It took me about two months of working and eating regular to put the muscle back on and keep the fat off. That's just me though.

You really plan on going to NYU?? That's cool if you are. I still have some friends in the dental school, but the people I knew in the regular med school are retired now. Or are you just thinking of going to pre-med?? Being a medical doctor isn't what it used to be. Freekin HMO's have killed the field.

**Elliot** · 02-14-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

Yeah, if you're concerned with losing too much muscle while you're cutting. I personally don't have to cut often at all (only twice in my life), but when I do, I just want to get it done and over with as quickly as possible. I've lost as much as 20 lbs in a month by doing the water only thing with no ill effects. I didn't care about losing a little muscle mass in the process. It took me about two months of working and eating regular to put the muscle back on and keep the fat off. That's just me though.

You really plan on going to NYU?? That's cool if you are. I still have some friends in the dental school, but the people I knew in the regular med school are retired now. Or are you just thinking of going to pre-med?? Being a medical doctor isn't what it used to be. Freekin HMO's have killed the field.

Im a try doing cardio post weight work out since now i'm up at 4:30 to get my cardio in and its weighting in on me.. i really dont care about loosing 5 or so pounds of muscle... in regards to med school... im currently doing pre-med at SUNY Stony Brook since i can't afford NYU's $27K+ a year.. but im hopping to go there for med school.. nyu, columbia, duke or if i really knock out the mcats, hopkins.. hey its a wonderful dream..

**DBarcelo** · 02-14-2004, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Elliot

Im a try doing cardio post weight work out since now i'm up at 4:30 to get my cardio in and its weighting in on me.. i really dont care about loosing 5 or so pounds of muscle... in regards to med school... im currently doing pre-med at SUNY Stony Brook since i can't afford NYU's $27K+ a year.. but im hopping to go there for med school.. nyu, columbia, duke or if i really knock out the mcats, hopkins.. hey its a wonderful dream..

Stony Brook isn't bad. I like NYU because they have the most cadavers than any other school I know of, you also have a very large hospital right there. I don't know about hopkins. You need a high GPA and mcat to get in, but a lot of stuff with them seems to be hype. They do have an excelent research facility though.

Well, good luck.

If you do it the way I told you, there will be some muscle loss, but your fat will drop quickly. Let us know how it goes after about a week.