The definition of 'Low Carb'???

**xenithon** · 01-27-2002, 05:09 AM

Hi there,

I haven't been here a while due to PC upgrade problems, but since I came back I have noticed a dramatic change in perceptions here.

About 6-8 months ago, it seemed as if a low carb diet was around 150g/day, a maintenance diet was 200-300g/day and bulking was 400+g/day.

So, I have been trying to keep lean now over the past two months or so at about 150g/day total (including all fruit and vege snacks).

Now, I see on the board that the majority of people consider 150g/day a tragedy, and that low carb works only if you are having 20-40g/day! I just wanted to know what exactly low-carb is if you want to keep lean muscle mass, not cutting, just lean maintenance and maybe a bit of fat loss from that nasty subcutaneous fat layer. Is 150g too much?

Thanks for any help!
BTW: 185lbs, 8-10% bf, 5 days/week weights, cardio 2x/week.

**beenie** · 01-27-2002, 12:10 PM

I have a lot of experience on this one. I do VERY low carb (somewhere arond 10g to 20g/day), and have lost some muscle mass as a result. I have also cut my bf% down to around 10% from what was around 15% a couple months ago. If you are not looking to cut and at 8%, I doubt you need to, 150g should be fine. The lower the carbs the more you cut. At least that has been my experience.

**llbeastcd** · 01-27-2002, 01:35 PM

There is major difference between the definition of "low-carb" and a "keto diet". Low carb is a level of carbs that you choose to set whereby you lose body fat, but DON'T go into ketosis.

A ketogenic diet, in comparison is characterized by definition as, "any diet whereby carbs are dropped below 100 grams" (L. McDonald et. al). Now, some may have to drop carbs to levels much lower than that to induce ketosis (here is where you hear levels between 0-30), but by definition, dropping carbs to levels below 100 will utilize some ketone bodies as energy.

A ketogenic diet will also involve changes in hormones and insulin production. This is where BB have to learn how to play the game of refeeding in order to spare muscle loss. The big three that have written quite a bit of literature on this type of dieting is Dan Duchaine, Maurio DePasquale, and Lyle McDonald.

Lyle lurks and posts on usenet at misc.fitness.weights. Depending on his mood, he can answer your questions more in depth than I ever can.

Hope this helps.

**Tobey** · 01-27-2002, 08:02 PM

xenithon,
Both beenie and llbeastcd have posted sound replies. Diets are people specific so to answer your question I would have to include that it depends on the person and thier basic caloric needs. What one would say is low another would disagree. Find out how many carbs you need a day, break it down and themn see if you can realistically follow such as plan. To tell the truth low carb diets seem to me to really be hard to stay on for long periods. ( I know bennie but your the exception here bro)
IC

**bravo11p** · 01-27-2002, 08:30 PM

beast, interesting post. I would like to look into that

IMO, I am not a fan of ever going below 100g carbs a day. Muscles rely on carbs as primary fuel. If you are low carbing then you will use more carbs than you take in. Though you increase your protein intake, I still think you will sacrifice some muscle mass though probably just a little. I just finished reading a book called "POWER EATING" which was written specifically written for strength and BB athlete's. I think it's a good read for sure. I'll post the authors' name if interested. At work right now so I'll have to get it from home. Peace

**llbeastcd** · 01-28-2002, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Tobey
To tell the truth low carb diets seem to me to really be hard to stay on for long periods. ( I know bennie but your the exception here bro)
IC

It's not so much that it's hard to stay on it, more so, that it's hard to stay on it and NOT lose muscle mass. Even beenie is now starting to realize that he has lost muscle mass and wants to solve this problem. And from what I gather, he did low carb AND low fat. Now, to me... that would be an impossible diet to stay on.

Low carb diets including CKD's are not used by bb over long periods of time. They are cycles within training. The TKD might be used more often by BB and for longer cycles, but that seems to be a lot less radical approach to low-carbing.