Question on when lyposis starts...

**OSTIE** · 03-25-2004, 11:07 AM

Ive read a couple posts that state the reason for doing 45min of fat burning cardio, as lets say opposed to 30min, is because pure lyposis doesnt beginning until your 20min into your cardio, which means your really only burning fat for 10min( if only doin cardio for 30min total). My question is, what scientific fact backs up this statement? Also, are there any assumptions in this statement such as you have to be at your 70% max heart rate for it to occur after 20min?

I guess I am just kind of confused with that statement, and if it is true, I would like to understand why. If it is untrue, I still would like to learn when lyposis occurs during cardio for max fat burning.

Thanks for your help,
-ost

**daman1** · 03-25-2004, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by OSTIE

Ive read a couple posts that state the reason for doing 45min of fat burning cardio, as lets say opposed to 30min, is because pure lyposis doesnt beginning until your 20min into your cardio, which means your really only burning fat for 10min( if only doin cardio for 30min total). My question is, what scientific fact backs up this statement? Also, are there any assumptions in this statement such as you have to be at your 70% max heart rate for it to occur after 20min?

I guess I am just kind of confused with that statement, and if it is true, I would like to understand why. If it is untrue, I still would like to learn when lyposis occurs during cardio for max fat burning.

Thanks for your help,
-ost

After your first 25 minutes your body enters the fat burning zne if I remember correctly.

**OSTIE** · 03-25-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by daman1

After your first 25 minutes your body enters the fat burning zne if I remember correctly.

You remember the article you read that from, so I can read up on why?

Thanks
ost

**longhornDr** · 03-25-2004, 11:57 AM

There is no set time when lipolysis begins...it all depends on your hormonal/nutritional state.

The simple version is that your body simply will not burn fat in the presence of carbohydrates....so current carbohydrate stores determine how long it will take your body to switch over.

**spywizard** · 03-25-2004, 12:04 PM

That's why it is recommended to do your cardio in the AM and on an empty stomach......

Originally Posted by longhornDr

There is no set time when lipolysis begins...it all depends on your hormonal/nutritional state.

The simple version is that your body simply will not burn fat in the presence of carbohydrates....so current carbohydrate stores determine how long it will take your body to switch over.

**daman1** · 03-25-2004, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by OSTIE

You remember the article you read that from, so I can read up on why?

Thanks
ost

The article I read was from a good 2 years ago. I would have the slightest idea on where to find it again. But the article said a good overall time would be 25 minutes. But as the others have said, it all varies from person 2 person..

**Elliot** · 03-25-2004, 02:23 PM

Okay from a logical standpoint wouldnt size of the person and lenght of the time period of carb depravation be a huge factor..? cause it takes more energy for a 300 lbs person then it does 150lbs person.. ? since the 300 lbs person need more energy he would burn the x amount of carbs in a faster pace then the 150 lbs guy.. so he would enter liposis in a shorter period of time.. i mean chances are im wrong but it makes sense from a logical standpoint..

**OSTIE** · 03-25-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Elliot

Okay from a logical standpoint wouldnt size of the person and lenght of the time period of carb depravation be a huge factor..? cause it takes more energy for a 300 lbs person then it does 150lbs person.. ? since the 300 lbs person need more energy he would burn the x amount of carbs in a faster pace then the 150 lbs guy.. so he would enter liposis in a shorter period of time.. i mean chances are im wrong but it makes sense from a logical standpoint..

Yea that is what I was kinda getting at. I guess I can see how someone can recommend a general time for it to begin, but there are so many varying factors. Also the pace at which cardio is done would effect when lyposis begins, you would think. I read posts saying fat loss is best at a HR of 70% of max, but lets say for me, it would take 20min for lyposis, couldnt i reach it faster by doing cardio with a much higher heart rate at first, then bringing it down to the 70% level for optimal fat burning? Anyone let me know if they have any educational reading on it. Also, thanks for the fast and thoughtful responses on ur guys' ideas.

-ost

**Elliot** · 03-25-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by OSTIE

Yea that is what I was kinda getting at. I guess I can see how someone can recommend a general time for it to begin, but there are so many varying factors. Also the pace at which cardio is done would effect when lyposis begins, you would think. I read posts saying fat loss is best at a HR of 70% of max, but lets say for me, it would take 20min for lyposis, couldnt i reach it faster by doing cardio with a much higher heart rate at first, then bringing it down to the 70% level for optimal fat burning? Anyone let me know if they have any educational reading on it. Also, thanks for the fast and thoughtful responses on ur guys' ideas.

-ost

cause when you cross 75% of your hr max the activity becomes anaerobing, meaning with out oxygen.. when your "burning" fat your acctuly oxodizing it if i remember it correctly..? when people mestiken is that if they run they loose weight.. yes this is correct except that when they run they burn the existing carbohydrates and or muslce and motabolize the next available energy source... then on the way back down your body has a time period when your inbwtween the 75-65% zone and thats when the liposis takes place.. so you do loose fat but it isnt as benificial as it would be if it was done in a proper manner.. im probobly completely wrong here.. anyone?

**phase** · 03-25-2004, 10:51 PM

your body doesn't know how long you plan to run for, for all it knows you might run a week. This is why your body runs in cycles ( glucose,lipids, aminos). Have you ever seen a well built long distance runner? A Marathoner constantly goes into a state of negative nitrogen balance meaning breaking down muscle as an energy source. As a bodybuilder that is something you tried to avoid. buy bringing your heart rate a up -brisk walks into a slow jogs, your body compensates by using more fat for energy in the hours afterward. As intensity increase your body shifts using more fat after exercise. Incase you are wondering how long each cycles last, there is know exact time cycle, studies conducted by east Tennessee State University of men in there mid twenties suggest that each cycle last 20 min, give or take a minute.

**Elliot** · 03-26-2004, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by phase

your body doesn't know how long you plan to run for, for all it knows you might run a week. This is why your body runs in cycles ( glucose,lipids, aminos). Have you ever seen a well built long distance runner? A Marathoner constantly goes into a state of negative nitrogen balance meaning breaking down muscle as an energy source. As a bodybuilder that is something you tried to avoid. buy bringing your heart rate a up -brisk walks into a slow jogs, your body compensates by using more fat for energy in the hours afterward. As intensity increase your body shifts using more fat after exercise. Incase you are wondering how long each cycles last, there is know exact time cycle, studies conducted by east Tennessee State University of men in there mid twenties suggest that each cycle last 20 min, give or take a minute.

very intresting.. can you point me to a source of info on the conducted study? nevertheless good post..

**OSTIE** · 03-26-2004, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Elliot

very intresting.. can you point me to a source of info on the conducted study? nevertheless good post..

Agreed, thanks guys for all ur insightful input, im learning alot.

-ost

**Elliot** · 03-26-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by phase

This is why your body runs in cycles ( glucose,lipids, aminos). Have you ever seen a well built long distance runner?

okay i failed to metion in the other reply yes we all aggree on that. the only question we have is how long these cycles last.. ? it cant be a standart time frame since size plays a huge part in the matter. the bigger you are the more cals you burn... (something along the lines of 4 out of 5 cals goes to maitain body temp) so the bigger you are the higher your caloric need becomes. meaning if gluclose is present a person who is bigger would end up using it in a faster pace and going into the lipids cycle.. am i wrong..?

**bluestrm** · 03-26-2004, 11:02 AM

Just like Longhorn and Spywizard said. It depends on YOUR body and you should do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach.You fasted all through the night(unless you get up to have protein) so your body will burn fat faster. And you should do the cardio in cycles of fast pace, slow it down, fast again... I have read that you could do that in intervals of minutes, or just go by your own pace. And if you read this months MD mag, you should know about caffeine aiding in fat loss. Of course there are tons of other things, but you didn't state that you wanted to do Clen , ephedra,etc...Just give it a try and be consistent.

**baller45** · 03-26-2004, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by longhornDr

There is no set time when lipolysis begins...it all depends on your hormonal/nutritional state.

The simple version is that your body simply will not burn fat in the presence of carbohydrates....so current carbohydrate stores determine how long it will take your body to switch over.

Yep, once the insulin is out of the blood, you are in lypolysis.

**Money Boss Hustla** · 03-26-2004, 11:40 PM

Great post guys!! This discussion should be a sticky.

**Elliot** · 03-26-2004, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Elliot

okay i failed to metion in the other reply yes we all aggree on that. the only question we have is how long these cycles last.. ? it cant be a standart time frame since size plays a huge part in the matter. the bigger you are the more cals you burn... (something along the lines of 4 out of 5 cals goes to maitain body temp) so the bigger you are the higher your caloric need becomes. meaning if gluclose is present a person who is bigger would end up using it in a faster pace and going into the lipids cycle.. am i wrong..?

someone riddle me this..?

**SwoleCat** · 03-27-2004, 12:33 AM

It's pretty much common knowledge, among fitness enthusiasts anyhow, that fat burning begins at the 15-20 minute mark after blood glucose is no longer the energy source. No real need for scientific studies if you ask me, but then again I'm into the fitness game and many times I assume that everyone else is as well. I'm sure u can find the studies somewhere, but I just always go w/what works from experience/learning from others who are more experienced.

~SC~

**phase** · 03-27-2004, 03:42 AM

Mr Swole Cat post has some merit, Since science is mostly based on Theories, the practical side is a much better term of measurement. The statement "always go w/what works from experience/learning from others who are more experienced." is well said, please bare in mind that in the seventies bodybuilders would train four to five hours and that too was common knowledge, from experience.