From 18% bodyfat to 8%......help me get to 6%!!!

[rawzilla39]

Hello!
On August 31st I went to get my bodyfat taken and get put on a diet to burn fat and maintain as much muscle as possible. There's a local former pro that owns a supplement store and gives consultations so I figured I'd give him a shot. I never cared to cut before.....adding more mass was always too important and for some reason cardio scared me because I didn't want to burn any muscle whatsoever. But I knew I had some extra bulk and knew I could look much better than I did. When I found out my bf was 18% I wished I had done this a lot sooner.
I weighed 205, 18%bf w/ 168.1lbs of lean muscle

The diet he put me on consisted of:

meal 1: (8:00am) 50g protein, 50g carbs, 12g fat
meal 2: (10:00am) 50g protein, 50g carbs, 6g fat
meal 3: (12:30pm) 50g protein, 50g carbs, 12g fat
meal 4: (3:30pm) 50g protein, 50g carbs (usually post workout)
meal 5: (6:00pm)50g protein, 12g fat
meal 6: (9:00pm) 70g protein, 6g fat

protein sources: boneless, skinless chicken breast (i eat a pound a day), tuna (out of the can or with a little salsa), egg whites, ground turkey and protein powders. (i very rarely eat ground turkey)
carb sources: bananas, rice, oatmeal (no sugar), and ultra feul (post workout)
I don't eat any carbs after 4pm (meal 4)
fat sources: flax, safflower, 1 or 2 yolks
i get one cheat day a week consisting of 2 cheat meals
I'm doing cardio 5 days a week for 30-45 mins. (preferably on an empty stomach)
He kept my weight training basically the same. Monday: chest/tri Tuesday: Legs Wednesday: Back/ bi's Friday: Shoulders
3-4 exercices for each, 2 working sets per exercise

I'm also taking mulitvitamins with meals 1 and 6
vitamin C pre and post workouts
5g creatine/day
20g glutamine/day
ZMASS before bed
took ephedrine november thru january (just started it again)
just started M1T
NOW I'VE BEEN PRETTY **** CLOSE TO FOLLOWING THIS DIET PERFECTLY!
Here's the progress I've made:

9/1/03: 18.0%
10/01/03 13.5
11/01/03: 11.8
12/04/03: 10.7
01/04/04: 8.4
02/06/04: 7.9
03/20/04: 7.7

I'm down to 173 from 205, about 32lbs.....I have lost 6 pounds of muscle.
I'm happy with the progress that I've made. But the progress seems to have really slowed up. I know that fat doesn't come off as easy when you hit single digits, but from febuary to march I only lost .2% and I was really strict with the diet. If anything, I've eaten less carbs, some days getting 130-150 (my trainer says not to drop my carbs below 200).
To try and speed this up a little, I'm back on ephedrine and taking carnitine before cardio.
My trainer added a high carb day to follow or preceed my cheat day. I take in double the carbs I usually would, consisting mainly of sugars. On my last visit, he told me to do cardio twice a day a couple times a week. I've heard mixed opinions on doing extra cardio (twice a day)....some feedback on that would be great.
I do feel and look lean , although I do have some loose skin still on the tummy........WHEN DOES THAT GO AWAY!!!!
I'm trying to get my bf down to 5.5% Any help would be appreciated. I've really been busting my hump with this. Doing the work isn't the problem, if it's extra cardio I'll do it....if it's low carbs I'll do it. I'm just getting a lot of different opinions on how to do it.
The only thing I can think of that may have worked against me is over-eating on my cheat day. Or maybe because I get 150g of carbs most days instead of the 200. SOME OF YOU PROS GOTTA HELP ME OUT!
Thanks
Please note that I just started M1T 3 days ago, how might that affect things...(I was told to take this to preserve muscle, maybe even adding it)

[spywizard]

what is the reason you want/need to be at 5.5% bft???

[rawzilla39]

Good question!
Honestly, I thought I would look the way I wanted to look at about 7 or 8%. But I don't have a visible 4 pack, let alone 6 pack. I've been told that it's probably some loose skin and will go away. Hey....once it goes away, maybe I'll be happy at 7.

[spywizard]

most find it hard to maintain below 7% most will be happy with 10% and do resistance training on the abs to make them bigger so they show through the extra fat, and skin....

just a thought

[SwoleCat]

Yeah, do you have any pics we could see to make sure it's not skin/water? I'd be hesitant to have you cut really hard (for fear of losing lean mass) if you're true bodyfat is really that low already. Usually dropping H20 before pics showcases a really ripped look. It'd be cool if we could take a look, but only if you're down w/showing pics.

~SC~

[SwoleCat]

Oh, and another thing.........to avoid the issue of losing mass, or losing just as much lean mass as you do fat, you have too many carbs in your layout. Equally reducing all macros to arrive at a defecit, usually is indicative of the subject losing equal lean mass and fat, thus becoming a smaller "just as fat" person. (not that you are fat, but that's the reasoning and explanation behind the process) Even w/the use of AAS if one uses them, you still run a chance of this occurring.

~SC~

[rawzilla39]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will definitely post picks as soon as I'm settled at my new place here and I get a scanner.
Swole- I'm definitely burning more fat than muscle....I've lost 32lbs., 6 of it muscle. I actually only lost .5lbs of muscle in the last 3 months (havent' lost too much fat either though). If it is the skin, how long will it take to thin out????
Should 7.5% honestly be enough to show a 6 pick or close??
Should I start doing abs everyday???

[daman1]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will definitely post picks as soon as I'm settled at my new place here and I get a scanner.
Swole- I'm definitely burning more fat than muscle....I've lost 32lbs., 6 of it muscle. I actually only lost .5lbs of muscle in the last 3 months (havent' lost too much fat either though). If it is the skin, how long will it take to thin out????
Should 7.5% honestly be enough to show a 6 pick or close??
Should I start doing abs everyday???

There is never a def. answer for how long it will take to shrink up loose skin. It takes it's time, but cardio and a proper diet can only aid in the process!

[Jackman]

7% would definitly show a 6 pack i would think

[rawzilla39]

I appreciate all the feedback guys. The good things I've learned from you guys is that I should be close to having a 6 pack at my current bf.
What I'm not happy about is that I've done a ton of hard work to get to where I'm at now and I'm not very happy about how I look. I'm definitely a lot more toned and all in all I do look good. But I do want those abs popping out desperately! I think I deserve it.
So it boils down to underdeveloped abs and loose skin. I'm going to keep cutting in the meantime and hope this loose skin tightens up.
Any chance the loose skin could tighten up completely by the summer time??


P.S........I'm going away this weekend and will take some pics to post next week....

[daman1]

I appreciate all the feedback guys. The good things I've learned from you guys is that I should be close to having a 6 pack at my current bf.
What I'm not happy about is that I've done a ton of hard work to get to where I'm at now and I'm not very happy about how I look. I'm definitely a lot more toned and all in all I do look good. But I do want those abs popping out desperately! I think I deserve it.
So it boils down to underdeveloped abs and loose skin. I'm going to keep cutting in the meantime and hope this loose skin tightens up.
Any chance the loose skin could tighten up completely by the summer time??


P.S........I'm going away this weekend and will take some pics to post next week....

Keep up the hard work. You do deserve it!

[I'm in a Hurry!]

7% would definitly show a 6 pack i would think

I'm more thinking about a 8pack

[Elliot]

I'm more thinking about a 8pack

You have to train ur abs a whooole lot to even have a vauge idea of a 8 pack.. i havnt seen one thus far.

[I'm in a Hurry!]

You have to train ur abs a whooole lot to even have a vauge idea of a 8 pack.. i havnt seen one thus far.

Let me get my ancien trainer picture... the one that made me on the track!
He's 41 and I would kill for his shape at my age
I'll look for some just give me a day or two I'll show you
It looks awesome! He's at 5.5% BF

[rawzilla39]

thanks for the encouragement guys.
still havent heard much feedback on the diet (how do the carbs look?) and the amount of cardio (double cardio?)
also, any magic supplements out there for loose skin??

[Elliot]

thanks for the encouragement guys.
still havent heard much feedback on the diet (how do the carbs look?) and the amount of cardio (double cardio?)
also, any magic supplements out there for loose skin??

i dont know bro but thhats a lot of cabrs.. but then again it has been working for you thus far.. cardio looks fine and for loose skin people say that lemon juice tightens up skin so get like 3 lemons into a gallon of water and have some po folk lemondade

[hugesunglasses]

also, how much water are you drinking a day? for me at 1.5 gallons a day, that can do a bit to hid a six pack. witness: two weeks ago i had the flu and passed about four pound of straight water weight in two days. long story short, after that second day, i've never looked better. also compare the way your abs look first thing in the morning on an empty stomach to the way they look later in the day. i guarantee they look best in the am. ditto as to what some of the others have said about training them harder. try some cable crunches on a resistance ball.

[rawzilla39]

will definitely start training abs harder. what do you guys think.....3-4 days a week?? how many exercises?

[rawzilla39]

oh.....and i drink 1.5-2 gallons of water per day.

[Elliot]

will definitely start training abs harder. what do you guys think.....3-4 days a week?? how many exercises?

i would go with three days a week.. with weighted crunches, roman chairs, leg lifts, jacknifes.. hanging crunches.. get creative.. like mohammed ali said "i start counting them when they begin to hurt"

[spywizard]

An herbal body wrap will press out some... and tighten the skin...

but it takes several treatments to get the job done.

good luck.

and congrats again........

I appreciate all the feedback guys. The good things I've learned from you guys is that I should be close to having a 6 pack at my current bf.
What I'm not happy about is that I've done a ton of hard work to get to where I'm at now and I'm not very happy about how I look. I'm definitely a lot more toned and all in all I do look good. But I do want those abs popping out desperately! I think I deserve it.
So it boils down to underdeveloped abs and loose skin. I'm going to keep cutting in the meantime and hope this loose skin tightens up.
Any chance the loose skin could tighten up completely by the summer time??


P.S........I'm going away this weekend and will take some pics to post next week....

[rawzilla39]

herbal body wrap?? where can I get that??

[daman1]

herbal body wrap?? where can I get that??

A good deal of spas offer it, but they can be pricy from what I hear, so have your checkbook cocked and ready.

[rawzilla39]

bros.....you guys know your stuff and I appreciate it. I think I've gotten better feedback in the last week on this board than my trainer's given me in the past couple months.
does anyone think i should cut carbs a little while i'm waiting for this skin to tighten up a little??
i'm currently still getting between 150-175. this seems to be plenty as i havent' lost any muscle in the past 3 months. can i get away with getting that down to 100-125 w/o losing muscle???

and any idea of how long it will take for my abs to start popping out if i start hitting them hard??

[1badcamaro]

no way, need more protein

[rawzilla39]

Just thought I'd give a quick update. I've actually put on a couple pounds. I thought it might have been from my cheat day/ high carb day, but usually by this time of the week my weight is back down to normal. I'm thinking the M1T may have given me a couple pounds of muscle, which I certainly appreciate! I definitely look better in the mirror.
I've worked my abs well yesterday and plan to hit them hard twice more this week.

[rawzilla39]

another quick update:
I go to get my bf taken in 10 days so I'll be sure to provide you guys with some actual numbers. I'll also post some pics.
I'm definitely looking better in the mirror. I've put on a couple pounds as I've said. So I'm sure I've put on a couple pounds of muscle (M1T).
My abs are showing more also, so I'm not sure if I've burned more fat, if my abs are becoming more developed or if my skin continues to tighten. Maybe a combo of all 3.
I cant' wait to get get my bf taken. Hopefully I'll be down to the low 7's with some added mass.