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Thread: Dr.D's Antibiotic Brief

  1. #1
    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    Dr.D's Antibiotic Brief

    Dr.D's Antibiotic Brief
    Posted @ AnabolicMinds

    As promised, here’s a basic antibiotic sticky. For specific questions not addressed here, feel free to email or PM me and I’ll help anyway I can.


    You probably need some antibiotics! Here is some basic info on how they work, which work best or are most common and what kind of doses might be employed. You wouldn’t do a test only cycle without Nolva, right? Of course not, you’d be asking for gyno. Don’t deposit a liquid under your skin without some antibiotics, because it’s not a question of “if” but rather “when.” Use strict aseptic injection techniques and hopefully your need for this info will be very infrequent. Also, if you do not understand how to apply this info, and feel you may have an infection, it’s best to just go and see a doctor. I am not encouraging you to treat yourself, but it is responsible to be able to do so if needed.

    Having a ready supply of various antibiotics(AB) can be very important to the athlete who must injection frequently for whatever reason. Antibiotics are chemical compounds either from living or synthetic sources that, in low concentrations, are capable of inhibiting the life processes of microorganisms. AB are either ‘cidal’ or ‘static’ meaning that they either directly kill or inhibit further reproductive cycles of the microbe.

    Short breakdown of the classes…

    PENICILLINS:

    Crystalline(powder) and salt forms(pills) are stable at room temperature for years. Although they do not require cold storage, they must be kept dry. The water-insoluble salts are stable in solution for up to 6 years in my experience, but should be kept at std refrigeration temp. 1.0mg of Pen G Procaine salt is equal to 1009units. Some are allergic to pens and should determine sensitivity before use. Eating is usually not a problem with oral pen but buffers and anti-acids are to be avoided. This class is active against gram (-) and some gram (+).

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Pen G Procaine…… 600,000u IM 1x/day for 1-10days (this is my favorite injectable pen)

    Pen G Benzathine… 1,200,000u IM 1-2x/wk for 1-2 weeks (1 shot only may fix it, long acting)

    Pen V……………... 125-250mg Oral 4x/day for about 2 weeks

    Ampicillin………… 250-500mg Oral 4x/day for NLT 10days

    Amoxicillin……….. 500mg Oral 3-4x/day for NLT 10days

    Augmentin………… 875mg Oral 2x/day for NLT 10days (this is a good form of Amox)

    CEPHALOSPORINS:

    These compounds are bacteriocidal in a similar way as to pens. They interfere with bacteria cell wall cross-linking. Although they are closely related to pens, people are less likely to demonstrate allergic reactions, due to certain changes in the basic structure. This class has gram (-) and (+) activity. These are generally very good for soft tissue infection like an athlete my encounter.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Cephalexin ……….. 125-250mg Oral 6x/day for NLT 10days (this works fast, my favorite ceph)

    Cefaclor…………… 250mg Oral 3xdaily for NLT 10days

    Cefoxitin………….. 2g IV daily for 1 or 2 weeks

    MACROLIDES:

    These compounds are very effective bacteriostatics that work by interfereing with protein synthesis at the 50S subunit of ribosomes. They are generally more effective against gram (+) organisms. They are also fairly stable in solution at or below room temp.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Erythromycin S.…... 500mg Oral 4x/day for about 2 weeks (stomach upset can be a prob)

    Clarithromycin……. 500mg Oral 2x/day for NLT 5days

    Azithromycin……… 500mg Oral 1x/day for 3-10days

    TETRACYCLINES:

    This is a good class of broad spectrum agents. Old, expired tetracycline sometimes contains a very nasty, toxic deg that is quite kidney toxic. If the pills or powder have been stored in cold, this is not usually a prob, but when in doubt, don’t use old tetracycline. Other drugs in this class are not prone to this breakdown. These compounds interfere with 30S subunit ribosomal protein synthesis. Tets work by chelating minerals, so iron, calcium and magnesium sups should be discontinued when on them.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Tetracycline………. 500mg Oral 4x/day for NLT 10days (stomach upset can be a prob)

    Doxycycline H……. 200mg Oral 1x/day for 5-30days (this is one of my favorite broad spec)

    QUINOLONES:

    Work on a variety of gram (-) and (+) organisms. It is cidal in that it inhibits DNA/m-RNA synthesis in an ATP-dependant manner. These are great broad spectrums, but can be toxic with extended use. Trovan(trovafloxacin) for example, was withdrawn due to many cases of liver damage a few years ago, but was reintroduced in Canada and maybe in the US recently, I’m not sure. It’s my all time favorite bug killer. If you can find it, get some, it’s like AB gold.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Ciprofloxacin……... 250-750mg Oral 2-3x/day for NLT 5days

    Norfloxacin……….. 400mg Oral 2x/day for 3-30days

    Trovafloxacin……... 200mg Oral 1x/day (often 2 doses will kill anything, the best around IMO)

    LINCOSAMIDES:

    These are broad spectrums that interfere with 50s subunit ribosomal protein synthesis in a static way. They have a tendency toward pseudomembranous colitis (severe diarrhea) when used at high doses or for too long, but nevertheless, are great AB that I utilize as a first line of defense in many cases. They work fast and are strong. If oral Clindamycin is combined with an equal dose of metronidazole or cholestyramine resin, these sides are often totally avoidable. If it does happen, stop use at once.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Clindamycin (base).. 150mg Oral 4x/day for 3-7days.

    Clindamycin Phos… 300mg IV or IM 2x/day for 5-10days.

    Lincomycin HCl…... 300-600mg IV or IM 1-2x/day for up to 1month.

    MISC:

    These are lesser used, or unclassified, but can still have a valuable place here. They all have special toxicity issues that should be investigated before attempting to use one of them.

    Common products, doses and duration of therapy:

    Vancomycin HCl…. 500mg IV 4x/day for weeks if needed.

    Cycloserine……….. 250mg Oral 2-4x/day for weeks or longer.

    Chloramphenicol…. 250mg Oral 4x/day for NLT 10days.

    Streptomycin SO4… 1g IM 1x/day for weeks as needed.

    Note:

    To conclude, it is not as hard as one may thing to treat an abscess. The trick is to catch it fast at the first sign of infection. A preventative dose of 400mg doxycycline at the first signs of an infection is often times enough to knock it out and avoid a full course of harsher AB therapy. Drug interactions can be of concern on AB and should be investigated by the user prior to initiation. However, it is rarely necessary to discontinue a cycle unless you are physically unable to lift due to the infection, because there are different enzymes involved in most cases. Also, with oral AB, it is usually wise to initiate therapy with a double dose just to get levels up fast. Another important consideration is to restore “friendly flora” in between doses of AB with acidophilus in the form of powder or yogurt. Never take them at the same time though.

    I will amend this material as new info is required, or if I have documented misinformation that should be updated. Stay healthy guys!

  2. #2
    symatech's Avatar
    symatech is offline Retired Moderator
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    interesting. thanks for putting this up

  3. #3
    flexin-rph's Avatar
    flexin-rph is offline Associate Member
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    I would just like to add that Keflex (cephalexin) is the most commonly used antibiotic for skin-type (abcess) infections in individuals NOT allergic to the penicillin's.
    Good post, Blown.

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    bullram's Avatar
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    interesting, good thread

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    Blown_SC is offline Retired Vet
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    ..........

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    956Vette is offline AR-Elite Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by flexin-rph
    I would just like to add that Keflex (cephalexin) is the most commonly used antibiotic for skin-type (abcess) infections in individuals NOT allergic to the penicillin's.
    Good post, Blown.
    Yup, a keflex inventory on hand has saved some doctors visits for me personally over the years. Thanks for posting this blown

  7. #7
    MuscleQuest's Avatar
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    how did you get an inventory of antibiotics?

  8. #8
    tadpoleboyy is offline Member
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    why is this not a sticky? very helpful, could save people a lot of time and money...

  9. #9
    Narkissos's Avatar
    Narkissos is offline AR-Hall of Famer ~Diet Guru~
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    Could someone move this to the educational threads forum?

  10. #10
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    Wow, I did'nt know such a thread existed here. Superb info here! It's always best to see a Dr. of course, but to head off an infection at first sign is my plan. I've got cephalexin just in case. Great thread. It's nice to know we have Dr.'s contributing to this site...

  11. #11
    sevenmann is offline Associate Member
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    Ok, i've noticed a knot in my arm and its been a couple weeks now. its turning hot and getting itchy. Doctor prescribed Cephalex 500mg (4x daily)
    If this antibiotic is going to work for me, how long does it take to kick in ? ?before swelling goes down?

  12. #12
    d_tuc is offline New Member
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    hello I'm taking halo tren (4-Chloro-17a-Methyl-Androst-1,4-Diene-3-17b-Diol 25mg
    Estra-4, 9-Diene-3, 17-Dione 20mg
    6,7 Dihydroxybergamottin (DHB) 155mg) and furazadrol (5a-etioallocholan[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether 50mg) I'm hoping this will help me bulk up and lose bf% (I'm 23yrs old 5'7 height, 180 lbs 17%bf) I'm not sure if I even need a pct for these because all three of the designer roids don't aromatize, but then again would natural production of test be inhibited? I was thinking rebount xt (3,17-dioxoetlioallocholane-1, 4,6-Triene) for pct if needed would that work? thanks

  13. #13
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    good read, even at the smallest sign i just tell my doc that i think i got possible infection from injection and he prescribes it to me no worries.....if only nolva, letro,caber and hcg were this easy!!!! lol

  14. #14
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    Since we are giving some pointers, I would add this. Take a complete course of whatever antibiotics you are taking. Do not stop after a day or two because the abscess went away.. Each bacteria has a corresponding antibiotic, though most docs will reach for keflex in the abscesses, some others are called for, and really require culture and sensitivity testing to be sure. Our bodies are covered in staph aureus, that is a natural "armor" per se. When we push even a clean needle into ourselves without removing the outer layer of staph, we push it into the nice, warm , nutritious muscle tissue or adipose tissue.. Bacteria loves nothing more than well fed, tissue to feed on.

    I would not advise anyone taking "preventative knock out" doses of antibiotics as recommended in this article though... Indiscriminate antibiotic use is hard on your body. Antibiotics suppress your own natural immune system, making you susceptible to opportunistic organisms elsewhere.

    An antibiotic should be taken when infection has been positively identified. Also, consume an entire course (3 days, 5 days, 7 days, etc, whatever is prescribed) or you can create resilience, as the small amount of drug has only killed off the "weak"...

    Infections are identified with one or more of the following conditions:

    fever
    swelling
    warmth at site
    blanching
    or
    redness
    itchiness
    discharges
    Last edited by bluesman; 03-25-2009 at 06:21 AM. Reason: typos

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    weightslinger's Avatar
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    good stuff. Is staph the number 1 infection?

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    articcolds is offline New Member
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    Okay I am freaking out about starting Tren 75 pill form and Deca 200 pill form. I am trying creatine and protein powder but it just is not giving me big results. So I thought I would get brave and try these combinations. I am 36 and about 180 but look like a tooth pick. My stamina is very poor and if I workout more than a half hour I feel like I could puke. I look at some of the comments and results. I am really looking for someone to help me out. Should I just stick with the simple things and not try the Tren and Deca? Or how could I start into it slowly without worry. Or is there more I need to take to make sure the good is better than the bad? I have injured my lower back and want to work hard to get some mass and look like some of the guys I see at the gym that I am sure have been doing this for a long time. I am very serious about this I lost my wife to a car wreck and the gym is all that burns the pain and stress. But I cannot seem to gain just by working out. Call me what you will or help me I would be very grateful!

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    Anna_lev is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the info.

  18. #18
    glf4lfe is offline New Member
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    Would using Amoxicillin 500mg over 7-10 days do the trick do you think ?

  19. #19
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    im all about more info.

  20. #20
    songdog's Avatar
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    Good thread Bro.But I read all the stuff you post and find it very helpful.

  21. #21
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    very good to know thanks

  22. #22
    ConArmas is offline Junior Member
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    I had never heard of half of these AB before. Thanks for the write up!

  23. #23
    tote33 is offline New Member
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    Great info! Does anyone know if MRSA and/or VRSA are common bacterial infections associated with AAS injection is?

  24. #24
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    my 1st book i ever read was "The Stack" by paul borrensen he recomended running a cycle of antibiotics b4 every gear cycle he stated that he believed most of us are supressing an infection that robs our gains n makes our gear gains not all they should be (I think hes dead now ) sounded valid to me at the time . but im not so sure now

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    Bump

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    Great info,thanks!

  27. #27
    nussnussbaby is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks for posting!

  28. #28
    nussnussbaby is offline Associate Member
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    How serious do you guys really get about all this stuff?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by glf4lfe View Post
    Would using Amoxicillin 500mg over 7-10 days do the trick do you think ?
    Did you ever get an answer on this?

  30. #30
    itiswhatitis's Avatar
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    Best part if u don't need to involve a dr or want to
    You can go down to most pet stores and pick up (cephalexin) keflex for cheap .... Exact same thing as pharmacy gives you

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    muskulazio is offline New Member
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    Interesting thread, thx for sharing

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