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  1. #1
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Post your Cycle Theory/Hypothesis

    Hopefully this thread will stimulate/generate some intellectual conversation.Something this board is in dire need of.
    I'll start things off with my thoughts/theory/approach.

    I'm a advocate of high dose cycles.Many might disagree with that approach.But that's what works best for ME. True,the human body does appear to get a tolerance to anabolics over time(as with any drug for that matter).But,if you don't run your cycles in close succession,there won't be a great need to ramp your doses up to quickly.I've also found that on high dose cycles,your receptors seems to down regulate rather quickly.Also,it's apparent to me SHBG levels elevate quickly on higher doses.Once that happens,gains cease.In my last two cycles I observed this.Particularly on my current cycle.After stopping masteron at week 8 my gains halted.That sends a red flag up saying my SHBG levels rose sharply.(As we know masteron,winny and a few other drugs are known to decrease SHBG levels).So this observation lends credence to what research has shown us.
    With that said.My new cycle theory will be that of esterless, or short ester gear.For short 6 week,burst type cycles(for putting on size)I'll take this approach as to reduce the risk of elevated SHBG levels while running high doses.I will also add some sort of DHT derivative(quick acting) drug to the mini cycles as well.This will also aid in reducing SHBG levels.Adding proviron or similar will help in controlling estrogen since we know that estrogen binds to the same SHBG as androgens,and when you lower SHBG levels(with a DHT type drug) you are also elevating bio-available estrogen.

    ~Pinnacle~

  2. #2
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    I tried shorter cycles. I also agree partially with receptor downreg. But I am leaning towards diet as the main culprit. I have tried test, no test, low test(right now)... I like longer cycles with 1.5-2gram per week total without orals. I do believe the body will get use to size the longer it is that size; hemostasis.

    Oh, and LMAO at the opening sentence.

  3. #3
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    I think the method one chooses to cycle is directly related to his or her goals. We all have to be completely honest and serious when we devise our cycles to achieve the goals we want, but more importantly we have to truly understand what goals we do want (which is the hard part). Everybody wants to be big, everybody has different ideas of what big really is, and very few of us are content with where we are. This is the main problem to address (at least I think) when we design cycles.

    Personally, I like shorter cycles (neighborhood of 6-8 weeks of short esters ED injections). I like these because they suit my goals. I have no aspirations to compete, or drop jaws as I'm walking down the street. If I wanted to be the 300lb behemoth then short cycles would not get me there (at least IMO). If that's where I wanted to be I'd be on multiple grams of multiple compounds for maybe half a year at a time.

    What I don't like about long cycles is the long recovery time. I don't like pct drugs and how they make me feel. I like being in a clear state of mind, unaffected by unreal fluctuations in my blood hormone levels. Maybe I take longer to recover than most people, maybe my hormones (or lack thereof) manifest undesirable emotions more so than other people, maybe I just don't deal with it as well. Who knows what the answer is, the only important point is that to me, it doesn't matter what the answer is I just take steps to avoid it. Since I don't have any ambition to be freaky big, I don't need to run the long cycles which I don't like anyways. So it works out.

    It is my opinion that the best way to keep gains comes not from staying on for long periods of time to 'adjust', but rather from recovering naturally so your own test production impedes the loss of gains. Without any doubt the fastest recovery comes from shortest cycles. This is yet another reason that I consider when designing a cycle. It is all these factors (and probably more) that we each have to take into account -and for each of us they are different- when we research and construct our cycles. If we truly spend time researching the possible outcomes of our cycles, then the worst case scenario is something we have already considered and what's more accepted before we cycle. Therefore I don't think there is one right way to take any anabolic steroids , and so long as we retain a lesson learned there is never any failure either.

  4. #4
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    On a huge board as this is,only two other men have given thought to how they look at/theorize anabolic cycles?


    ~Pinnacle~

  5. #5
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    i'm not as experienced as you three, but from my previous cycles and research. im gunna stick to 3-8wk cycles of fast acting compounds @ high doses. i seam to take a long time to recover, so pct feels like it lasts forever. just my two cents.
    zer_

  6. #6
    righton is offline Senior Member
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    I usually advocate a low dose first cycle(200-250mg/wk) per anabolic instead of the large dose (500 or so)that most say is needed to get very good gains. Considering the body produces alot less than that naturally anything above baseline(70mg/wk or so) would do very well. AND DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!LOL.

  7. #7
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Can i drink winny?


























    Letrozole can do a better job than the provion for your SHBG. I think longer cycle are better due to the fact that when your body reaches homeostasis at the goal body fat and lean mass it will be easier to keep in the long run. Honestly I don't believe in cycling (though I’m not very experienced in the area) I when I use again I’ll be 'on' until my desired bodybuilding goals are reached. I'll just stagger my dosages and switch up drugs along the way.

  8. #8
    j martini is offline Member
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    I like longer cycles. I basically just use test and nothing else, as my theory is/was that test was best with more bang for my buck so why bother with other AAS like deca or EQ.

    But after reading all the info and debate o this site recently about SHBG and receptor downregulation and how its best to switch compounds to keep your body guessing i will in future be experimenting with other AAS.

    I will also likely add a small dose of letro and maybe 50mg of winny ED as DHT derivitive to counteract elevates SHBG levels while on cycle.

    So to sum up, with experience and added knowledge my cycle theorys are constantly changing as i gather more information on the most effective way to use AAS.

  9. #9
    SPIKE's Avatar
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    WTF!!! My AR was down all day!!! I had this typed up and couldnt even post it!!!! Alright, lets see what we can conclude from each one of our experiences




    I'm sure that this thread was sparked out of interest from a previous thread that started out talking about recpetors and escalated with every post leaning towards SHBG levels. Threads like that and this one I think are most important. But for reasons we wont speak about they get bumped down dam fast. I'd probably have to skip to page 5 to find that thread on Receptors I'm talking about

    Sometimes I like to lay back and read awesome threads like that. Threads that make you actually stop and think rather then skimming through with a new thought for every sentence. I can tell this thread will be another elaborate, educated, and most importantly informative one.

    Obviosuly PInn you know that I"m younger then you so I'll comment on my experience and what has worked for me. Higher doses have always worked for you and thats something that I've always leaned towards. The reason I havent just yet is b/c I follow a time on = time off protocol. I run 3-4 months cycles tops, typically 2 a year. Some like to say that I"m on year round b/c I cycle GH and Slin and now LR3. But we both know thats not true.

    In saying that, I have been cycling for about 5 years and like to keep my body refreshed with new items all the time. Like this past cycle, I used Test E, EQ, Dianabol , Var, Tren -A, GH, LR3, and slin but at all differnt times. Just kept the Test E and EQ constant. What you said about Masteron /Winny and SHBG levels was totally accurate!!! This past cutter I ran Prop, Var, Primo and tacked on the last 4 weeks of Winny. After my 3 months of being on the Primo and Prop I felt my gains progressively slowing down. Then I added 4 weeks of Winny to the Mix and it felt like when I started again. Some would have upped the Dose but I feel that upping the dose will work but temporarily until your body gets accustmoed to it. It would flood receptors with the same gear but keeping SHBG levels constant. By introducing, as you said Mast or Winny that are known for decreasing SHBG, you would give an added benefit to your body allowing to continue to gain.

    Now as I said this is what has worked for me. It's obvious that not all will agree with me or you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and different things work for different people. If you find something that works for you dont let anyone says it could be better. The grass isnt always greener on the other side. Obviously Meso knows that, he;s been cutting that grass every since I joined AR.

  10. #10
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    My cycle hypothesis?

    Here's the link:

    Perpetual cycling... Mr.Sparkle?

    It's rough...and new info has surfaced since i wrote it. I'll address it and perfect it during the coming year.

    Then i'll put it into practice to determine its practicability.

  11. #11
    topvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    On a huge board as this is,only two other men have given thought to how they look at/theorize anabolic cycles?


    ~Pinnacle~
    Some of us have this thing called a job that we have to go to most days........ I can't exactly post on here from my truck... God that wld be great though...



    Although I am 37 yrs old, I am just a wee little lad in the world of anabolics. My theories on anabolics are still being molded by individuals like yourself who posses a wealth of experience and knowledge... as well as trial and error on my part. I just finished pct on a 20 weeker and the thought of waiting 20 weeks before indulging in another cycle makes me sad. With that being said I will be trying a shorter cycle of fast acting esters next cycle.

  12. #12
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    My cycle hypothesis?

    Here's the link:

    Perpetual cycling... Mr.Sparkle?

    It's rough...and new info has surfaced since i wrote it. I'll address it and perfect it during the coming year.

    Then i'll put it into practice to determine its practicability.
    Your theory is

  13. #13
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big k.l.g
    Your theory is


    I got some 'theory' for you bish... why weren't you in the gym tonight?


  14. #14
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    For years I used to think long cycles where the way to go. The problem with that was after about 6-8 weeks everything came to a hault. So I started upping the doses hoping that I could continue on with the long cycles. It help but there was no end in site. The dosage just became redicous. At one time in the mid 80's I was injecting 3 grams of test a week and my only stacks were D-bol and Anadrol . No other injectables.

    Now I have been back at it again. My first one back was 12 weeks followed by 16 weeks. I started off with 750 mg of test for those 12 weeks along w/D-bol @ 40 mgs for the first 4 weeks. Gains were nice. The next cycle was 750 test and 600 deca for 16 weeks with d-bol 1-+4. Gains were ok again but not as good as the first one back. 3rd cycle was test 750mgs and Eq @800. Was disappointed in the results after 10 weeks so i stopped. It seems like all my gains regardless of how much i do come within 6 weeks.

    So now I'm on a year long cycle. It consist of 6 weeks on and three weeks off. The off weeks i do PCT and hrt @ 250 mgs of test. I'm on my 3 week of the 2nd cycle. Here is what this cycle looks like. Now one problem I'm having is that at the age of 53, I'm finding it harder everyday to eat what's needed to gain weight. I have to watch what i eat or here comes the FAT.

    Week 1-4 Test @750mg
    Week 1-6 Tren A
    Week 5 and 6 Test Prop @ 200mg EoD.
    Off three weeks with PCT and Clomid and third cycle will be
    Weeks 1-4 Test E @ 750 mgs
    weeks 1-6 EQ @800
    Weeks 5 and 6 Prop @ 200mg EOD

    I'm giving this a go for a year. I will stay with 6 weekers cause after that 6 weeks I see no more gains.

    These liitle 6 weekers seem to be working for me if i can keep the eating up to par. I mean 4000 cals clean is tough on an old person. My strength has gone up everytimewith the above. In matter of fact after the 3 weks off crusing, I came back just as strong and by the 2nd week beat my log book al to shit.

    So right now i believe in shorty's. well see how it goes in the next 6 months if i continue to gain. Also note I will not increase the dosage of test. I might increase the EQ if anything as I go.

  15. #15
    topvega's Avatar
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    Wldn't doing any sort of pct while continuing to administer 250mg of test a week be a waste of time? U will remain shut down.

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    Althought, I'm not experienced in years of cycles. I have a couple opinions that I have formed. Being an athlete I'd have to say my goals arent visibly intended. However, I do agree that everyone will build up a tolerance to AAS because of our receptors downgrade. I also think we are at our prime for aas at around 26-30yrs old because our metabolisms' are higher than later and we can put the calories to do use and Test is higher. Think about it for you guys that are older. What you would do if you could go back and redo it all? Really hit it harder with a good diet while still being able to cheat and it wouldnt affect you as much.

  17. #17
    Igifuno's Avatar
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    As stated, the human body develops a tolerance to AS over time, therefore higher doses are usually applied for those with experience. Even more common, is not following time on=time off which I think this contributes to the need of taking higher doses, not to mention it can be dangerous. I am constantly being educated in the subject of AS and how to use them, but it never ceases to amaze me how many users do not read, study, follow proper pct and do not take advantage of joining boards such as this one. As far as the higher doses go and the need (my opinion) to do them because of tolerence levels, doesn't the body still only use a limited amount of the steroid which would subsquently increase the chances of the higher dose to convert to estrogen? This is surely grounds for being an advocate of shorter ester or esterless steroids , although I think if one allows thier body to recover properly, the need for extremely high doses may not be necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topvega
    Wldn't doing any sort of pct while continuing to administer 250mg of test a week be a waste of time? U will remain shut down.
    this is a DC method and I'm giving it a shot. Hell at 53 I'm planning on HRT for my remaining days on planet earth anyways. Good trhing about mexico. I just run around the corner if i need more test if I stop making my own.

  19. #19
    BajanBastard is offline VET Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos


    I got some 'theory' for you bish... why weren't you in the gym tonight?

    It was leg day.

  20. #20
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topvega
    Wldn't doing any sort of pct while continuing to administer 250mg of test a week be a waste of time? U will remain shut down.
    Very hot topic bro.This has been beaten around on some very intellectual boards.Nandi has gone at it with Big Cat years back.Dante(aka DoggCrapp) has been defending his stance on this case well.

    I'll stay out of this one.

    ~Pinnacle~

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Very hot topic bro.This has been beaten around on some very intellectual boards.Nandi has gone at it with Big Cat years back.Dante(aka DoggCrapp) has been defending his stance on this case well.

    I'll stay out of this one.

    ~Pinnacle~

    Well I still have awhile before becoming a lifer.......... hopefully by the time I do become one we will have a definitive answer on this....

  22. #22
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcatbadass
    Think about it for you guys that are older. What you would do if you could go back and redo it all? Really hit it harder with a good diet while still being able to cheat and it wouldnt affect you as much.
    Great point. I'm 37 and having metabolism issues already I have to be very careful what I eat. Indeed I consume alot of cals ED.But at a certain point into turns into fat.Probably effecting my gains on a cycle since I'm not looking to put on extra BF. I'll settle for a few less pounds of LBM over increased BF. It's getting harder and harder to take the BF off these days. That equates to using expensive drugs like IGF to help shed off those extra few pounds.


    ~Pinnacle~

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igifuno
    As stated, the human body develops a tolerance to AS over time, therefore higher doses are usually applied for those with experience. Even more common, is not following time on=time off which I think this contributes to the need of taking higher doses,
    Exactly. Cycles ran in close succession is the main reason why one would need to increase the dose heavily on the next cycle. Others factors come into play,but this point can't be over looked.


    ~Pinnacle~
    Last edited by Pinnacle; 12-06-2005 at 11:06 PM.

  24. #24
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    OK two issues as i quickly skimmed through here... def. no expert by far but, old man you say that on long estered cycles your gains halt of 6-8 WEEKS?? WTF.... that doesnt even make sense?!?!?!?!?!? I keep on reading on here that EQ, for example, usually kicks in about week 6, AND test about week 4-5... SO WHAT YOUR SAYING is after 2 to 3 weeks of growing your gains halt???uhhhhhhhh...?

    ...and PINN you suggest that high dose cycles send your SBGH levels up and gains slow down, so why are people running 1g+ of test a week, and if they do this then they should include a DHT derived drug...does that only apply to test, or other compounds like deca , tren , primo?

    trying to participate in an intelligent convo..ha, trying!

  25. #25
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by need2Bbig
    OK two issues as i quickly skimmed through here... def. no expert by far but, old man you say that on long estered cycles your gains halt of 6-8 WEEKS?? WTF.... that doesnt even make sense?!?!?!?!?!? I keep on reading on here that EQ, for example, usually kicks in about week 6, AND test about week 4-5... SO WHAT YOUR SAYING is after 2 to 3 weeks of growing your gains halt???uhhhhhhhh...?

    ...and PINN you suggest that high dose cycles send your SBGH levels up and gains slow down, so why are people running 1g+ of test a week, and if they do this then they should include a DHT derived drug...does that only apply to test, or other compounds like deca , tren , primo?

    trying to participate in an intelligent convo..ha, trying!
    I'll let Tough Old Man speak for himself on that topic.


    People,including myself, run much higher doses than 1g wkly of Test.What needs to be done is bring SHBG levels low to free up more Test.You can do this with DHT derivatives,also aromasin lowers SHBG levels as well.At the same time you need to control bio-available estrogen you just freed up.That's where proviron or a similar drug comes into play. All drugs compete for the same receptor,but in the case of reducing SHBG, Testosterone would be the drug you are trying to free up. I can't comment on Deca,primo ect. Only speculate, which is worthless in the thread of this caliber.

    ~Pinnacle~

  26. #26
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    over the years ive been on and off gear ive tried more or less every combination going, i know my own body and how it responds to gear, ive done short burst cycles at high levels of test, infact the late Paul Borreson told me to try it, and i must say they do work and i respond very well and built quaility mass,but they are not for everyone i am a big believer that when people use chemicals there is no set rule, people respond differently so there is no right or wrong you have to try it and see how your body reacts, also have to pick the right test for the job and other compounds to react correctly with each other for the short cycle burst,
    ive also tried the long cycles with low test and high test, which i do love, but its very hard to get everything working correctly when your off, it takes so long to recover even with all the PCT compounds available,its a must you follow time on = time off for heavy long cycles, i use both methords personaly i will start a short heavy burst cycle then the next long heavy cycle or long low test,
    i do know alot of people on this board dont like short cycles but if the right compounds are mixed they are very very effective and a lot of mass can be obtained...

  27. #27
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    Great topic, I'm with Jay on this one. I am much younger and don't have near the experience some of the older guys have but am trying to expell the BS from what is real and actually works. I do agree people will respond differently to diff. compounds and cycle lengths, so this being said I believe the only true way of knowing what works for you individually is simple trial and error. Aside from the facts and knowledge you can obtain from reading, it still all comes down to what works for each individual. Don't have much to comment on cyclewise, I have a lot more experimenting to do before I understand how and what my body reacts to best.
    Good thread Pinnacle, hope to see more of the older/experienced users give their thoughts.

    BD

  28. #28
    I_Want_Abs is offline Senior Member
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    hey guys, allright i am still pretty young and have only just finished my 1st cycle consisting of 400mg test cyp 10 weeks + 40mg dbol ed 6 weeks so i am no where near as experienced as alot of you are and i still have alot of research to do on other compounds and there effects on my body so i wont comment on anything as yet but i am looking forward to reading all the replys to this thread....

  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Hopefully this thread will stimulate/generate some intellectual conversation.Something this board is in dire need of.
    I'll start things off with my thoughts/theory/approach.

    I'm a advocate of high dose cycles.Many might disagree with that approach.But that's what works best for ME. True,the human body does appear to get a tolerance to anabolics over time(as with any drug for that matter).But,if you don't run your cycles in close succession,there won't be a great need to ramp your doses up to quickly.I've also found that on high dose cycles,your receptors seems to down regulate rather quickly.Also,it's apparent to me SHBG levels elevate quickly on higher doses.Once that happens,gains cease.In my last two cycles I observed this.Particularly on my current cycle.After stopping masteron at week 8 my gains halted.That sends a red flag up saying my SHBG levels rose sharply.(As we know masteron,winny and a few other drugs are known to decrease SHBG levels).So this observation lends credence to what research has shown us.
    With that said.My new cycle theory will be that of esterless, or short ester gear.For short 6 week,burst type cycles(for putting on size)I'll take this approach as to reduce the risk of elevated SHBG levels while running high doses.I will also add some sort of DHT derivative(quick acting) drug to the mini cycles as well.This will also aid in reducing SHBG levels.Adding proviron or similar will help in controlling estrogen since we know that estrogen binds to the same SHBG as androgens,and when you lower SHBG levels(with a DHT type drug) you are also elevating bio-available estrogen.

    ~Pinnacle~
    This is a really interesting topic. having finished my first cycle last week (on PCT phase now) I have already begun wondering about my dosages for the next cycle so will be following this discussion closely.

    I have a question in relation to what you said above. If your admission is that high dose long cycles down-regulate the receptor so you advocate shorter cycles with short ester AAS. So how then do you explain:

    (A) people who are cycle all year round - From reading the boards these people usually use moderate/high levels of AAS How do these people get around the problem of down regulated receptors?
    (B) Similar to A are the HRT ppl - although they usually get prescribed lower doses surely over a number of years of treatment they will also experience heavy resistance to the AAS by their bodies
    (C) The pros. They surely must use huge amounts of AAS for extra long periods of time. How come they seem to continue to grow?

    Apologies if my questions seem dumb. Just something that I thought didn't add up...

    Cheers
    S

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300
    also have to pick the right test for the job and other compounds to react correctly with each other for the short cycle burst,

    SYNERGY SYNERGY SYNERGY!!!!! God I Love that word!!!


    Perfectly said about combining the correct compounds. Some have no idea what to run with what. But in a thread like this I"m sure we all know what works best with what. I'm personally trying to pick and pull bits of info in order to conclude a new theory that might actually produce better results in the future.


    Bizump in the Hizzy

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    Great topic, I'm with Jay on this one. I am much younger and don't have near the experience some of the older guys have but am trying to expell the BS from what is real and actually works.


    Sometimes we need to sit back BD and let the more experienced big guys discuss. A discussion as this one is biased but there a plenty of experienced people on here that have tried everything.

    I'm hoping this thread gets a lot more attention. With 45,000 members there has to be some people that have tried it all. A topic like this can conclude with information that could help us all. Let's see what works for who and possibly expell why?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhova16
    SYNERGY SYNERGY SYNERGY!!!!! God I Love that word!!!


    Perfectly said about combining the correct compounds. Some have no idea what to run with what. But in a thread like this I"m sure we all know what works best with what. I'm personally trying to pick and pull bits of info in order to conclude a new theory that might actually produce better results in the future.


    Bizump in the Hizzy

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    goalseeker is offline Anabolic Member
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    awesome thread... I could sit and read ones like this all day.. Very valuable..we must have more of these..Like Jay said, great to read all the big guys history, it has helped me in understanding all those little things that I wasnt 100% sure about. And also makes me comfortable with my next cycle..Time to increase doses substantially, and see how it works for my body.. Good job you guys!!

  35. #35
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    Pinnacle is offline AR-Hall of Famer ~ Cocky motherF*cker!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarz

    (A) people who are cycle all year round - From reading the boards these people usually use moderate/high levels of AAS How do these people get around the problem of down regulated receptors?
    (B) Similar to A are the HRT ppl - although they usually get prescribed lower doses surely over a number of years of treatment they will also experience heavy resistance to the AAS by their bodies
    (C) The pros. They surely must use huge amounts of AAS for extra long periods of time. How come they seem to continue to grow?

    Apologies if my questions seem dumb. Just something that I thought didn't add up...

    Cheers
    S
    All good questions,and not dumb by any means.

    I'll answer your questions in the order they were asked.(I'm only on my first cup of coffee,so please excuse me if the answers seem vague )


    A).The guys that cycle all year round usually aren't on a constant cycle.They have cruise periods where they'll run a low dose of test for a few months to just retain there gains made on cycle.When they go back on cycle,they bump there Test dose up rather high(usually) and add totally different compounds than that of what they ran in the previous cycle.marcus300 briefly touched on that topic.And it is a rather important one.It's the key to cycling successfully IMO.Other factors come into play as well.Like regulating SHBG levels.If this is done correctly,you can keep gains coming on a cycle.I touched on this in my opening post.

    B)With HRT,you are just trying to keep your Test levels at what they were when you were around 25 yrs old.I see what you are getting at,but HRT protocol is a whole nother thread.I'll just leave it at that.

    C).The pros.I addressed this in answer "A" to some degree.But drugs play a huge factor here.They are using all kinds of drugs to keep the gains coming.LR3 IGF-1,myostatin blockers,HGH,insulin ,and they too go on cruise periods(most anyway).So there cycles can be quite complicated.But they also keep SHBG levels low,and also control there estrogen levels ect.

    Hope this helps a little with your questions.If your still confused I/we can get into this a little more in detail.

    ~Pinnacle~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Exactly. Cycles ran in close succession is the main reason why one would need to increase the dose heavily on the next cycle. Others factors come into play,but this point can't be over looked.


    ~Pinnacle~
    Well I'm your guinea pig here. I'm not going to up my doses this time around. I will stay at 750 mgs of test and 800 EQ or 150mgs of Tren EOD for this year long cycle. As long as my strength continues and it is, then I know I'm adding size. I mean why add more if not needed. Personally I think these shorty's is going to be the clue to keeping doses level. I'll find out when the third and fourth cycle shows up.

    Note: Test is going to be my base. I may lower the dosage of test to 250 mgs and up the other compound to equal
    Last edited by tough old man; 12-07-2005 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tough old man
    I disagree I'm your guinea pig here. I'm not going to up my doses this time around. I will stay at 750 mgs of test and 800 EQ or 150mgs of Tren EOD for this year long cycle. As long as my strength continues and it is, then I know I'm adding size. I mean why add more if not needed. Personally I think these shorty's is going to be the clue to keeping doses level. I'll find out when the third and fourth cycle shows up.

    Note: Test is going to be my base. I may lower the dosage of test to 250 mgs and up the other compound to equal
    It's perfectly fine to disagree TOM.But I think you are in disagreement a little too early in the game since your experiment has only just begun.Personally I think you'll hit plateau's rather quickly running the same drugs constantly in the same cycles.
    i know you are basing your cycle theory on that of DoggCrapps,but he has guys run short,or no ester Testosterone for the mini cycles.He doesn't advocate enanthate in short runs like that,and certainly wouldn't advocate EQ in a mini cycle as well.In a nut shell.He has guys run suspension for 6 weeks,and cruise for another 3 weeks or so an prop.That is the foundation of his cycles.He doesn't recommend using alot of drugs.He likes test only cycles for the most part.

    Anyway,good luck on your experiment.Hope it works out well for ya.

    ~Pinnacle~

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    Quote Originally Posted by tough old man
    I disagree I'm your guinea pig here. I'm not going to up my doses this time around. I will stay at 750 mgs of test and 800 EQ or 150mgs of Tren EOD for this year long cycle. As long as my strength continues and it is, then I know I'm adding size. I mean why add more if not needed. Personally I think these shorty's is going to be the clue to keeping doses level. I'll find out when the third and fourth cycle shows up.

    Note: Test is going to be my base. I may lower the dosage of test to 250 mgs and up the other compound to equal
    why is your eq higher than your test? shouldnt test always be higher?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tough old man
    I disagree I'm your guinea pig here. I'm not going to up my doses this time around. I will stay at 750 mgs of test and 800 EQ or 150mgs of Tren EOD for this year long cycle. As long as my strength continues and it is, then I know I'm adding size. I mean why add more if not needed. Personally I think these shorty's is going to be the clue to keeping doses level. I'll find out when the third and fourth cycle shows up.

    Note: Test is going to be my base. I may lower the dosage of test to 250 mgs and up the other compound to equal
    all i can commet on is my own experience's and i have a cycle diary which goes back over ten years, and i can say running the same test on long cycles at the same doesage over and over doesnt work for me, infact looking back in the diary the short cycles and short time off ive built more muscle and mass and kept all the gains, in my opinion you have keep swapping the test's and mixing between short cycles and long, its the mixure of different compounds you use what are very important to keep producing gains, i know exactly which compounds will drive new muscle gains and which stacks will work for what i am looking for,,,best bet is try it and find out what works for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300
    in my opinion you have keep swapping the test's and mixing between short cycles and long, its the mixure of different compounds you use what are very important to keep producing gains, i know exactly which compounds will drive new muscle gains and which stacks will work for what i am looking for
    AWESOME!!!!


    The epitome of of experience!!


    Couldn't agree more!!Read this post and you've learned valuable secrets!

    ~Pinnacle~

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