Studies prove we may be wrong about HCG post cycle

**kizer_soce** · 06-03-2002, 10:53 AM

this was dug up by doggcrapp off animals board.

The Study: Two hypogonadal former anabolic steroid users were studied. Normal levels of LH are >3.6 IU/L and Testosterone are 300—1000 ng/dl. Former anabolic steroid users often have suppressed levels of both.

The Results: Subject #1 is a 6', 206lb former user of 500—2000+ grams per week of anabolics. His baseline numbers were: LH<1IU/L, Test=191ng/dl. This suject underwent a 32 day treatment of 2500 IU of HCG every 4 days, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. 15 days after treatment his numbers were: LH=5.2IU/L, Test=1072 ng/dl.

Subject #2 is a 5'10", 184lb male who used 400 mg per week of nandrolone . His baseline numbers were: LH<1IU/L, Test=45ng/dl. This subject's 32 day treatment consisted of 2500 IU of HCG every 4 days, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. There was no change. He underwent another treatment consisting of 60 days of 5000 IU of HCG every 4 days for 4 injections, then 2500 IU every 4 days for 4 injections, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex per day. Still, no change. For the next 32 days, this subject received 5000 IU of HCG every other day for 6 injections, then 2500 IU every other day for 6 injections given with 150 IU of menotropins, 50 mg of clomid 2 times per day, and 10 mg nolvadex 2 times per day. 15 days after treatment his numbers were: LH=9.8IU/L, Test=507 ng/dl.(20)

Comments: The authors of this paper have presented some very interesting data that the medical community needs to learn from. When dealing with former androgen users, there may be better ways to increase Testosterone than the standard patch treatment (which will only prolong the problem of decreased T production.) Hypogonadal former androgen users need a treatment, not a band-aid. If you need to jump start your Testosterone after an androgen cycle, this combination of HCG, Clomid, and Nolvadex may be just what the doctor ordered.

**kizer_soce** · 06-03-2002, 10:55 AM

notice what deca did the subject #2's HPTA and how long it took to recover it.....good reason to avoid it if you ask me.

**Gizmo** · 06-03-2002, 10:55 AM

Good Info Kizer

Giz

**marx** · 06-03-2002, 11:52 AM

Wow, i knew deca shut you down hard but had no idea it too THAT LONG to recover from it....good post kizer_soce...

**jbrand** · 06-03-2002, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by johan
When I read it to me it sounds like it is the menotropins that gets them going again.

Menotropins (pergonal, LH/FSH) is not very easily attainable, I know Serono makes it for fertility treatment. There have been studies done in favor of pergonal over HCG due to the shorter half-life, in which HCGs long half-life causes problems with receptor down-regulation post-cycle.

**jbrand** · 06-03-2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by johan

what kind of sides does menontropins have??

Similar ones to HCG I would presume. Long term use will have the potential to permanently diminish the bodys production of gonadotropins. Since HCG imitates LH, I am assuming they would be very similar in regards to side effects.

**Dizzy** · 06-03-2002, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by kizer_soce
notice what deca did the subject #2's HPTA and how long it took to recover it.....good reason to avoid it if you ask me.

Exactly....I'd like to see a study like this done with equipoise as well. Until I do...I'm sticking to fina.

**Dr.Evil** · 06-03-2002, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Dizzy
Exactly....I'd like to see a study like this done with equipoise as well. Until I do...I'm sticking to fina.

tren may shut you down longer than anything else...

i wonder what the results would have been like with just the clomid and nolva w/o the hcg ... i also wonder how the test levels responded post hcg treatment...

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 06-03-2002, 02:50 PM

great post kizer!

wow- deca is harsh. What are some others that are as harsh as Deca. I thought the use of HCG was an Old school procedure? Do most of you guys still use this along with a cycle? 32 days of post cycle theraphy is another thing to think about.

great post to the top^

**androplex** · 06-03-2002, 04:02 PM

# 2 does not say if he was using test with it. I wonder if just doing deca shuts things down or if using with test will keep things going?

Damn studies, You just never know what to think.

I am still going to keep doing my deca.

That will keep my test level low too.

BTW my doctor told me that the deca will not make the test level go up or down that much. hmmmmm.

**Dizzy** · 06-03-2002, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Dr.Evil
tren may shut you down longer than anything else...

How about eq?

**Dr.Evil** · 06-03-2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Dizzy
How about eq?

i don't know

**Dizzy** · 06-03-2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Dr.Evil

i don't know

Damn@!! LOL

**Iwan2bsolid2** · 06-04-2002, 01:25 AM

BTW my doctor told me that the deca will not make the test level go up or down that much. hmmmmm. [/B][/QUOTE]

I trust most of you guys more than I would a Doctor, most of them have there heads up there asses. My endocrinologist didn't even know what Nolvadex or Arimidex was.

**kizer_soce** · 06-04-2002, 09:12 AM

Hey Doc I think you are right on with the assumption that fina is even worse than the deca both being nandrolone derivitaves.......I am now of the opinion that if you are to run fina in a cycle it should be done closer to the beginning rather than the end so it has more time to clear your system.

I have gotten great results using arimidex and clomid post cycle...not much for mass but I got some really good strength gains post cycle....and that was after using test fina winny and no ester eq for 6 weeks. Also I know a friend of a friend (yeah sounds stupid but it is a guy I really trust) who put on 12lbs post cycle using HCG with clomid. I am thinking of doing the same thing after my current cycle except taking out the nolva and adding arimidex in it's place, I will let you guys know how it turns out (minus blood work) in a couple months when I get to it.

**XBiker** · 06-12-2002, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Dr.Evil

tren may shut you down longer than anything else...

i wonder what the results would have been like with just the clomid and nolva w/o the hcg... i also wonder how the test levels responded post hcg treatment...

I know that I have seen the reports where tren shuts you down HARDER than any other AAS, but I have not seen an proof of it staying in your system anywhere near as long as deca would.

**BigLad** · 06-13-2002, 02:42 PM

Kizer - thanks for posting that mate but you wouldn't happen to know the origin of it would you? I know you mentioned 'Animals' board - one with which I'm unfamiliar - could you elaborate? Even better would be the abstract/journal reference. Just that I'd like to find the full article and give it the once over.

Cheers.

**kizer_soce** · 06-14-2002, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by BigLad
Kizer - thanks for posting that mate but you wouldn't happen to know the origin of it would you? I know you mentioned 'Animals' board - one with which I'm unfamiliar - could you elaborate? Even better would be the abstract/journal reference. Just that I'd like to find the full article and give it the once over.

Cheers.

Sorry bro, that is all the info that was posted.