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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    OK,here's my thoughts on the use of Nolv/letro/adex or whatever your choice combination may be.Don't take what I'm about to sat as advice.I'm simply sharing my personal experience and views in regards to the question you asked.When I first started using anabolics I held water on every cycle.No matter what drugs I was using in the cycle.Nolv/adex was usually the combo I used to fight estrrogen related sides.It helped to a certain extent,but what was really causing the excess water retention was the amount ofBf I was holding.As a beginner,I started cycles at around 12-13 % BF and said "fvk it",I'll cut the fat off later.Big mistake on my part.Not only was my diet off by putting on excessive BF,the more BF I put on,the more water I retained.(This is why I went into proper nutritiopn more so than anything else in this thread).Nutrition,more so than drugs,is the key eliment to a successful cycle.
    Now,the more experineced I've become in regards to proper nutrition/diet along witrh anabolic drugs,the less estrogenm related side effects I had.I'm at the point now I hardly get any sides what so ever on cycle.I hold very little water,but nothing alarming by any means.Nowadays since I don't come off cycle(I cruise in between) I don't use any anti's til near cycles end,usually about two weeks out and 4 weeks proceeding as well.Just to shake off any excess water and also for the estrogen rebound I get running high Testosterone cycles.I prefer aromasin at 15 mgs EOD.I've used letro in the past but have had estrogen rebound effects.IMO,Nolv/letro...Nolv/aromasin are great for cuting cycles when you want to remain relatively dry so you can gauge how much BF you are actually holding.On a mass cycle,I'd go with Nolv/adex.Adex s much milder than letro/aromasin.You'll hold some water while using adex.But that's fine since you are in a mass phase and estrogen(to some extent) is anabolic.So you do want some estrogen,but not too much as it will suppress bio-available testosterone .You really need to find your own personal "sweet spot" so to speak.That comes with time,and more so experience.I hope this answers the above question.
    As for the second part.It's going t9o sound like I'm "copping out" from answering your question.But the fact is,you'll need to experiment with different PCT protocols to find what works bet for you,and you alone.I've ran several different types of PCT drugs/combination to see what worked best for me.On average "Nolvadex only" brought my test levels back to par the quickest without any adverse side effects.Nolv/clomid didn't work well for me.After every cycle I ran,I always had BW done a few times throughout the peroid to see and document which PCT protocol worked bet for me.I suggest you( and everyone for that matter) do the same.Keep a log of yoyr cycle.Drugs you used,doese,duration and what type PCT you ran.Attach your BW to that.Over time you'll be able to determine through your own personal medical documentation,what works best for you.

    ~Pinnacle~
    Sup Pinn!! Since on topic about PCT and Protection what are your thoughts on Milk Thistle.. I remember reading you dont use it or like it, but I wanted to know whether you dont like it bc 1) It hinders gains or 2) Just bc you feels its unecessary? I am reading mixed opinions- some say it hinders gains some say it doesnt.. what are your thoughts (brief statement) regarding this isuue.. thanks brotha

  2. #122
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    Great stuff as always Pinn. I make sure I check in on this thread daily. Your such an asset to this board. BTW man just so you know how much your posts mean I am about to place an order for my Leucine and other BCAA's and taper off my whey protein.

    Hope you dont mind answering another question from a newb but I really wanted YOUR input on this personally if possible. You breifly touched on this before as per my request (thanks) but in terms of dextrose...I know YOU dont personally use it, but assuming I like to use it, would you think that I can still use dextrose in my PWO shake along with the leucine or BCAA's?

    Thanks Pinn, hope all is well.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino
    Great stuff as always Pinn. I make sure I check in on this thread daily. Your such an asset to this board. BTW man just so you know how much your posts mean I am about to place an order for my Leucine and other BCAA's and taper off my whey protein.

    Hope you dont mind answering another question from a newb but I really wanted YOUR input on this personally if possible. You breifly touched on this before as per my request (thanks) but in terms of dextrose...I know YOU dont personally use it, but assuming I like to use it, would you think that I can still use dextrose in my PWO shake along with the leucine or BCAA's?

    Thanks Pinn, hope all is well.
    let us know how u like the change between the whey and leucine/bcaa's...

  4. #124
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    You mentioned supplementing Leucine. What about also utilizing Isoleucine and Valine?
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucabratzi
    let us know how u like the change between the whey and leucine/bcaa's...
    I will for sure bud. This make take months to notice. But I will document my progress you can count on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    You mentioned supplementing Leucine. What about also utilizing Isoleucine and Valine?
    I know you meant this for Pinn but, Im gonna give BCAA's a go I think, I can get powdered leucine, valine, isoleucine seperately or as the common BCAA form with the 2:1:1 ratio. Buying by the kg you can get BCAA's a little cheaper than leucine would be on its own from where I buy. Not that its a big difference but Im gonna try it anyways. Will keep updated as I said above bro.

  6. #126
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    Pinnacle - btw.. .research takes time. Lots of time. I don't mean signing up on the board and right away start a thread asking which drugs to use on your first cycle. Then doing the cycle one month later. The smart, patient guys read and research for at least a year before they partake in their first cycle. And guess what? You never see those guys posting threads with cycles gone awry. I wonder why that is?

    ~Pinnacle~
    Superb point!
    It took me exactly 6mths for my first (very simple) cycle with the most appropriate ancillary (for me) and proper PCT. But wait, does that make me exceptional for doing so in half the time, or dumb for not taking at least a year? I’ll wager the former.

    Great post Pinn...I especially enjoyed the underdosing segment. Think I'll triple all my doses...kd.

    Love ya man. But not in that Brokeback kind of way.

    M.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftnainez
    Sup Pinn!! Since on topic about PCT and Protection what are your thoughts on Milk Thistle.. I remember reading you dont use it or like it, but I wanted to know whether you dont like it bc 1) It hinders gains or 2) Just bc you feels its unecessary? I am reading mixed opinions- some say it hinders gains some say it doesnt.. what are your thoughts (brief statement) regarding this isuue.. thanks brotha
    I really don'tr feel it's necesary to run all kind of additional suppliments with PCT.Find the drugs that work for you,have your nutrition in place and you'll recover just fine.

    ~Pinnacle~

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino
    Hope you dont mind answering another question from a newb but I really wanted YOUR input on this personally if possible. You breifly touched on this before as per my request (thanks) but in terms of dextrose...I know YOU dont personally use it, but assuming I like to use it, would you think that I can still use dextrose in my PWO shake along with the leucine or BCAA's?

    .
    Sure you can.It's all about timing CB.Immediately following training have your BCAA(or liquid aminos) with your luecine and whatever else you choose to take.Wait about 20-25 minutes then consume your protein/dextrose shake.

    ~Pinnacle~

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    OK,here's my thoughts on the use of Nolv/letro/adex or whatever your choice combination may be.Don't take what I'm about to sat as advice.I'm simply sharing my personal experience and views in regards to the question you asked.When I first started using anabolics I held water on every cycle.No matter what drugs I was using in the cycle.Nolv/adex was usually the combo I used to fight estrrogen related sides.It helped to a certain extent,but what was really causing the excess water retention was the amount ofBf I was holding.As a beginner,I started cycles at around 12-13 % BF and said "fvk it",I'll cut the fat off later.Big mistake on my part.Not only was my diet off by putting on excessive BF,the more BF I put on,the more water I retained.(This is why I went into proper nutritiopn more so than anything else in this thread).Nutrition,more so than drugs,is the key eliment to a successful cycle.
    Now,the more experineced I've become in regards to proper nutrition/diet along witrh anabolic drugs,the less estrogenm related side effects I had.I'm at the point now I hardly get any sides what so ever on cycle.I hold very little water,but nothing alarming by any means.Nowadays since I don't come off cycle(I cruise in between) I don't use any anti's til near cycles end,usually about two weeks out and 4 weeks proceeding as well.Just to shake off any excess water and also for the estrogen rebound I get running high Testosterone cycles.I prefer aromasin at 15 mgs EOD.I've used letro in the past but have had estrogen rebound effects.IMO,Nolv/letro...Nolv/aromasin are great for cuting cycles when you want to remain relatively dry so you can gauge how much BF you are actually holding.On a mass cycle,I'd go with Nolv/adex.Adex s much milder than letro/aromasin.You'll hold some water while using adex.But that's fine since you are in a mass phase and estrogen(to some extent) is anabolic.So you do want some estrogen,but not too much as it will suppress bio-available testosterone .You really need to find your own personal "sweet spot" so to speak.That comes with time,and more so experience.I hope this answers the above question.
    As for the second part.It's going t9o sound like I'm "copping out" from answering your question.But the fact is,you'll need to experiment with different PCT protocols to find what works bet for you,and you alone.I've ran several different types of PCT drugs/combination to see what worked best for me.On average "Nolvadex only" brought my test levels back to par the quickest without any adverse side effects.Nolv/clomid didn't work well for me.After every cycle I ran,I always had BW done a few times throughout the peroid to see and document which PCT protocol worked bet for me.I suggest you( and everyone for that matter) do the same.Keep a log of yoyr cycle.Drugs you used,doese,duration and what type PCT you ran.Attach your BW to that.Over time you'll be able to determine through your own personal medical documentation,what works best for you.

    ~Pinnacle~


    I personnaly thank you for this..and i was sure that you didn`t ignore my questions(that`s why i didn`t started to ask)..


    Again thank you for the great advices and the most important, the great motivation you inspire!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino
    Great stuff as always Pinn. I make sure I check in on this thread daily. Your such an asset to this board. BTW man just so you know how much your posts mean I am about to place an order for my Leucine and other BCAA's and taper off my whey protein.

    Hope you dont mind answering another question from a newb but I really wanted YOUR input on this personally if possible. You breifly touched on this before as per my request (thanks) but in terms of dextrose...I know YOU dont personally use it, but assuming I like to use it, would you think that I can still use dextrose in my PWO shake along with the leucine or BCAA's?

    Thanks Pinn, hope all is well.

    I also will make this move,C_Bino..


    Thanks, Mr. Pinn!

  10. #130
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Blueprints for building the foundation

    The guys that have been active in this sport(at any level) for some time have all gone through the exact same feelings of frustration/anxiety/dispair in regards to finding a training style that yeilds consitant results.When I first started out,I know I have.Am I overtraining?Am I undertraining?How come I'm not growing as fast as I should be,or think I should be?That shit is enough to drive anyone crazy.I certainly contribute some of those times to the state of insanity I'm now in.As a beginner I tried a zillion training stlyes,well not a zillion,quite a few though.Found one or two that yeilded consistant results,but was always lured away with someone touting some new training style as "Worlds Best Mass program".It might be the best mass program,for HIM.Didn't do shit for me but a steady spiral into the abyss of overtraining.
    The biggest mistake I've made when I first started out was changing my training style too often thinking the grass is greener on the other side,but all the while I'm sitting on a pot of gold,just didn't know it at the time.
    Change your training routine frequently is what "THEY" say.After all,that's what "THEY" tout in those shiny magazines,right?"THEY" say constant change in routines keeps growth coming.Boy did those writers lie to me.What "THEY" should have said is from time to time make some changes in your routine.That's all that is needed.You need not be going from some form of HIT training to high volume training ,or the other countless training methods.If it ain't broke,don't fix it.Look at the bodybuilders of today,and yesteryear for that matter.Maybe once in awhile they did/do try something different,but always wind up "Going Home".Going back to the basics.Back to what got them at the top of their game.I too,have "Gone Home" recently after straying away from what I know all to well,works for me.Once again,I'm back on track.Growing at a slow,steady rate,All the while increasing my strength as well.A very easy to understand example of making changes/minor alterations in your training program to keep growth coming is lets say yourchest routine centers soley arounf barbell flat bench,incline barbell,and finished with flys.You don't need to change your routine to some other "fad" routine.Instead,change the exercises around on a bi weekly basis.One week you can do dumb bell exercises,the next week use barbells.Or you can switch it up a little more.One week strictly work you upper pecs with incline exercises using both barbell,and dumb bells.Different grips on the barbell.Different grips on the dumb bells.You get the idea.Changing a routine from that of compound movements,to easier,less effective isolation movements does nothing but destroy your purpose.Changing the angle of basic compound free-weight movements is all that's needed.
    I remember a quote from Franco Columbo.He sais "There are only 5 exercises for a body part that are any good,and one is best".
    I'll give you an example of what works for me.Here's my chest routine...

    WeeK 1 :

    Flat bench DB presses- 3 sets/6-10 reps
    Incline barbell presses- 3 sets/6-10 reps
    Incline DB flyes-3 sets/6-10 reps
    Weighted dips- 3 sets/6-10 reps

    Week 2 :

    Incline DB presses- 3 sets/8-12 reps
    Incline hammer-grip presses- 3 sets/8-12 reps
    Flat bench hammer-grip presses-3 sets/8-12 reps
    Cable crossovers- 3 sets/8-12 reps

    As you can see not really much changes in terms of exercises.Switching from DB's to barbells and changing grips is all that is needed.I do like to change my reps.I go 6-10 reps weeks 1 with all my body parts.Then week 2, 8-12 reps.Not only am I hitting different fibers while changing angles,I'm also recruiting different muscle fibers when changing my rep scheme as well.
    So guys,particularly the younger guys,when you find a routine that works for you,stick with it.Refine it.MOst importantly is have patience.A great physique isn't built in one year.It takes years and years of hard work.Don't be like the average Joe and call it quits cause you don't look like Arnold after one year of training.Chances are you'll never look like Arnold.But that doesn't mean you can't remain on your quest from building the best physique possible with the genetics you were dealt.Certainly you can.You just have to want it.Well do ya?WANT IT,that is.If so,make it happen,starting NOW!

    ~Pinnacle~
    Last edited by Pinnacle; 05-31-2006 at 10:36 AM.

  11. #131
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    Here's a small tid bit I'd like to add.

    As we all know what you eat before training can be critical to your gains.You have to precisely know when to eat what to make strides in muscle mass.You also have to know what not to eat.A recent study conducted at the University of Maryland school of medicine reported high fat meals blunted the ability of NO(nitric oxide) to open blood vessels for upwards of 4 hrs.This resulted in less blood flow to the muscles and less of a pump.Now this sounds like bad news for the Pro/Fat dieters,right?It is,but hold on one second.The researchers also reported that eating a small salad with high fat meals prevented the adverse effects on blood dilation.Apparently phytochemicals in salad act via NO pathways to enhance blood dilation.So there you go Pro/fat advocates.And for you anti pro/fat guys(like myself) have a small salad with one of your meals 4 hrs or so before training(see my diet above).Every little bit helps,right?

    ~Pinnacle~

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by jef
    hey Pinn. you mentioned earlier on your sample diet that you're in growth phase. If you have time could you share with us what your cutting phase meals would look like or is it pretty similar?

    .
    It's very similar to my mass phase diet.One little thing I do right before I enter a cutting phase(usually 2 weeks prior) is to dirty up my diet slightly.An example would be adding a small amount of dextrose or juice with each meal.I take this away and rather quickly start to loose BF.Gives me a little wiggle room when running a super clean diet like I maintain.I'd much rather clean up,or take away junk, than to take away vital nutrition.

    ~Pinnacle~

  13. #133
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    Man i love this thread.. just gets better and better. Keep it up Pinn!


  14. #134
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    WOW PINN!! Great posts bro.. thanks for all the info.. much appreciation

  15. #135
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    Great thread!

    Better and better everyday, most educational and understandable read yet.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    You mentioned supplementing Leucine. What about also utilizing Isoleucine and Valine?
    Someone say something?Nah man,just kidding....

    IMO there comes a point when trying to suppliment with far too many different aminos,or vitamins and minerals for that matter,become over-kill.If you follow a great nutritional plan there really isn't a need for supplimentation at all.I do, however, feel rather strong about supplimenting with glutamine and leucine.Arginine is optional.

    Here's more on leucine :

    As I mentioned above,leucine iws one of the three branch-chained amino acids(BCAAs).Unlike other aminos,the liver doesn't break down BCAAs.Isoleucine and valine are the other two that IBd brought up.Leucine is considered by most scientists as the "Allstar" of the three branch-chained amino acids.Not just because it serves as an essential building block for protein in muscle cells,it also plays many other critical roles.Research also shows that leucine supplimentation boosts insulin release.Originally it was thought leucine played a role in protein synthesis via its effect on insulin secretion.New research shows leucine itself directly kick starts key biochemical steps in muscle cells that lend to greater muscle protein synthesis.
    Another great benefit is while we are dieting,leucine from muscle tissue is used ultimately to produce glucose in the liver.So taking additional leucine during a diet can spare muscle leucine and therefore muscle size,all while producing energy(through its conversion to glucose in the liver).


    I'll leave you with this thought.

    I view my body as a very complex,high performance engine.This is why I take my nutrition as serious as I do.I mean after all,would you put regular gas in a Jaguar?

    Think about that the next time you reach for a donut or slice of pizza.



    ~Pinnacle~

  17. #137
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    Pinnacle: What do you think of the supplement HMB? (Obviously, I wouldnt expect anything dramatic with it, but ive recently seen a study which said the HMB users made more muscle/strenght gains than the placebo-group, within the time-frame.)

    In your opinion does it have any benefits or is it yust a waste of money?

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    Wow great read Pinn, i dont know why i didnt come into this thread earlier, i just learnt a shit load in here

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitor
    Pinnacle: What do you think of the supplement HMB? (Obviously, I wouldnt expect anything dramatic with it, but ive recently seen a study which said the HMB users made more muscle/strenght gains than the placebo-group, within the time-frame.)

    In your opinion does it have any benefits or is it yust a waste of money?
    I tried it some time back and saw no difference at all.I found it to be a waste and money.I'm not really into suppliments all that much.I use certain suppliments to do exactly what the word suppliment means.Like I sais above,people tend to gove over board with suppliments.There are very few that actually have any benefit at all by increasing the amount in your system.Obviously amino acids is one of them.

    To clarify something about the amino acids I use.

    I use liquid aminos (Twin Labs) that has a great amino acid profile.Much better than whey could possibly ever have.Then I also suppliment with additional Leucine and Arginine in powder form.

    I take this cocktail 30 minutes before training(along with glutamine at 10g).Then PWO I take the cocktail again,then 20 minutes later when I get home have 10g of glutamine and have my PWO meal.
    Some are going to say why are you taking glutamine with the cocktail pre-workout,but waiting 20 minutes or so PWO to ingest it?There are some studies around that show glutamine "COULD" possibly slow down the absorbtion rate of amino acids if taken together.So pre-workout that doesn't bother me.I think that's a good thing.But even though I'm not sold on the few studies showing it(glutamine) could possibly slow absorbtion rate,I'm not going to take any chances,plus it really isn't a burden coming home and taking the 10g, then eating.


    ~Pinnacle~

  20. #140
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    Agreed, BCAA's are just as anti-catabolic as HMB. Cheaper too.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    My man,I want to acknowledge I saw your questions.I'm going to be brief as I don't want/nor have the time to give free advice in regards to nutrition.I have clients in the real world that pay for this.So out of respect for them,I'll be brief.I also don't want this to snowball into countless Pm's from ppl asking for diet /nutritional advice.I hope you can understand and respect that.
    You don't have to eat yams/potatoes 6 x ED.I never said that..I did say they should be the foundation of your carbohydrate sources throughout the day.Keeping your insulin levels even keel throughout the day is the safest way to ward off any poossible unwanted BF.Pay attention to the foods you eat.Take notes on what bloats you ect.

    Good luck......

    ~Pinnacle~
    Thanks Pinn.Great advice and I have gone back to eating this way and feel way way better.

    If you can comment on just one more thing.....if a carb source bloats you does that mean its gonna make you fat or just puffy looking for awhile?

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstriked
    Thanks Pinn.Great advice and I have gone back to eating this way and feel way way better.

    If you can comment on just one more thing.....if a carb source bloats you does that mean its gonna make you fat or just puffy looking for awhile?
    Most likely just temporarily puffy .That's ok if you are in a mass phase.But it's not really a great idea to be bloated or puffy.One reason is that is a sign of elevated estrogen levels.As you know having high estrogen levels will supress bio-available testosterone .Also,being bloated can lead to a host of other unwanted issues,like high blood pressure ect.
    Another reason holding excess water isn't a great thing to have going on is,it will make it hard to judge how much actual BF you are acquiring while in your mass phase.On a cut cycle,that is even worse.You'll have a real hard time guaging how much BF you are actually dropping.So bottom line is try to avoid foods that you know bloat you.Make cardio part of your daily training program.Anyone can be "big" per se.But being "big and lean" is impressive.


    More to come shortly.I'm not out of gas yet..........


    ~Pinnacle~

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Most likely just temporarily puffy .That's ok if you are in a mass phase.But it's not really a great idea to be bloated or puffy.One reason is that is a sign of elevated estrogen levels.As you know having high estrogen levels will supress bio-available testosterone .Also,being bloated can lead to a host of other unwanted issues,like high blood pressure ect.
    Another reason holding excess water isn't a great thing to have going on is,it will make it hard to judge how much actual BF you are acquiring while in your mass phase.On a cut cycle,that is even worse.You'll have a real hard time guaging how much BF you are actually dropping.So bottom line is try to avoid foods that you know bloat you.Make cardio part of your daily training program.Anyone can be "big" per se.But being "big and lean" is impressive.


    More to come shortly.I'm not out of gas yet..........


    ~Pinnacle~
    u best not be lol!! good stuff brotha

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by biglouie250
    good read.... but 12-14%bf doesnt look sloppy lol!

    sure ! .........lol........
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 06-03-2006 at 12:38 PM.

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Most likely just temporarily puffy .That's ok if you are in a mass phase.But it's not really a great idea to be bloated or puffy.One reason is that is a sign of elevated estrogen levels.As you know having high estrogen levels will supress bio-available testosterone .Also,being bloated can lead to a host of other unwanted issues,like high blood pressure ect.
    Another reason holding excess water isn't a great thing to have going on is,it will make it hard to judge how much actual BF you are acquiring while in your mass phase.On a cut cycle,that is even worse.You'll have a real hard time guaging how much BF you are actually dropping.So bottom line is try to avoid foods that you know bloat you.Make cardio part of your daily training program.Anyone can be "big" per se.But being "big and lean" is impressive.


    More to come shortly.I'm not out of gas yet..........


    ~Pinnacle~
    not necessarily,some times i am bloated but having very low estrogen levels,now 1,5 gr test weekly (10-12 weeks cycle).
    estradiol (estrogen) level 8.2 pg/ml (weekly blood examinations).

    normal levels:
    adult man. 7.63-42.59 pg/ml.


    bloat can come from sodium retention too (aldosterone or renin).

  26. #146
    wolfstriked is offline Associate Member
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    Thanks again Mr Pinn!!

    Makes sense to me.Estrogen is for girly girls and we want it as low as possible.I am finding though that while I would get super bloated a year ago from carbs I now only seem to bloat under the skin.My stomach doesnt get distended anymore which made me look like I was pregnant

    I have been trying to eat more meals with yams and am amazed that they keep my blood sugar very stable.I really am enjoying the full look also that 6 meals with carbs is giving me.I slipped yesterday and ate a chinese meal of steamed beef and brocolli and a huge mound of white rice.Well I was a mess a 1/2 hour later laying down on the job and all.

    Needed 2 sugar free redbulls and a zone bar and I stablized again.Good wholesome low glycemic carbs all the way!!!

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Blueprints for building the foundation

    The guys that have been active in this sport(at any level) for some time have all gone through the exact same feelings of frustration/anxiety/dispair in regards to finding a training style that yeilds consitant results.When I first started out,I know I have.Am I overtraining?Am I undertraining?How come I'm not growing as fast as I should be,or think I should be?That shit is enough to drive anyone crazy.I certainly contribute some of those times to the state of insanity I'm now in.As a beginner I tried a zillion training stlyes,well not a zillion,quite a few though.Found one or two that yeilded consistant results,but was always lured away with someone touting some new training style as "Worlds Best Mass program".It might be the best mass program,for HIM.Didn't do shit for me but a steady spiral into the abyss of overtraining.
    The biggest mistake I've made when I first started out was changing my training style too often thinking the grass is greener on the other side,but all the while I'm sitting on a pot of gold,just didn't know it at the time.
    Change your training routine frequently is what "THEY" say.After all,that's what "THEY" tout in those shiny magazines,right?"THEY" say constant change in routines keeps growth coming.Boy did those writers lie to me.What "THEY" should have said is from time to time make some changes in your routine.That's all that is needed.You need not be going from some form of HIT training to high volume training ,or the other countless training methods.If it ain't broke,don't fix it.Look at the bodybuilders of today,and yesteryear for that matter.Maybe once in awhile they did/do try something different,but always wind up "Going Home".Going back to the basics.Back to what got them at the top of their game.I too,have "Gone Home" recently after straying away from what I know all to well,works for me.Once again,I'm back on track.Growing at a slow,steady rate,All the while increasing my strength as well.A very easy to understand example of making changes/minor alterations in your training program to keep growth coming is lets say yourchest routine centers soley arounf barbell flat bench,incline barbell,and finished with flys.You don't need to change your routine to some other "fad" routine.Instead,change the exercises around on a bi weekly basis.One week you can do dumb bell exercises,the next week use barbells.Or you can switch it up a little more.One week strictly work you upper pecs with incline exercises using both barbell,and dumb bells.Different grips on the barbell.Different grips on the dumb bells.You get the idea.Changing a routine from that of compound movements,to easier,less effective isolation movements does nothing but destroy your purpose.Changing the angle of basic compound free-weight movements is all that's needed.
    I remember a quote from Franco Columbo.He sais "There are only 5 exercises for a body part that are any good,and one is best".
    I'll give you an example of what works for me.Here's my chest routine...

    WeeK 1 :

    Flat bench DB presses- 3 sets/6-10 reps
    Incline barbell presses- 3 sets/6-10 reps
    Incline DB flyes-3 sets/6-10 reps
    Weighted dips- 3 sets/6-10 reps

    Week 2 :

    Incline DB presses- 3 sets/8-12 reps
    Incline hammer-grip presses- 3 sets/8-12 reps
    Flat bench hammer-grip presses-3 sets/8-12 reps
    Cable crossovers- 3 sets/8-12 reps

    As you can see not really much changes in terms of exercises.Switching from DB's to barbells and changing grips is all that is needed.I do like to change my reps.I go 6-10 reps weeks 1 with all my body parts.Then week 2, 8-12 reps.Not only am I hitting different fibers while changing angles,I'm also recruiting different muscle fibers when changing my rep scheme as well.
    So guys,particularly the younger guys,when you find a routine that works for you,stick with it.Refine it.MOst importantly is have patience.A great physique isn't built in one year.It takes years and years of hard work.Don't be like the average Joe and call it quits cause you don't look like Arnold after one year of training.Chances are you'll never look like Arnold.But that doesn't mean you can't remain on your quest from building the best physique possible with the genetics you were dealt.Certainly you can.You just have to want it.Well do ya?WANT IT,that is.If so,make it happen,starting NOW!

    ~Pinnacle~
    clear and cut point, a lot of people crave for routines changes but..............................................

  28. #148
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    not necessarily,some times i am bloated but having very low estrogen levels,now 1,5 gr test weekly (10-12 weeks cycle).
    estradiol (estrogen) level 8.2 pg/ml (weekly blood examinations).

    normal levels:
    adult man. 7.63-42.59 pg/ml.


    bloat can come from sodium retention too (aldosterone or renin).
    True Ossie....but as you can see I'm not trying to get to technical in this thread.I'm keeping this an easy to read/understand thread.After all,if I get too technical myself,my little pea brain might explode.I think I have house plants with better IQ's than myself..lol...


    ~Pinnacle~

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstriked
    I have been trying to eat more meals with yams and am amazed that they keep my blood sugar very stable.I really am enjoying the full look also that 6 meals with carbs is giving me.


    .Good wholesome low glycemic carbs all the way!!!
    So since you've read the thread you've taken on the low glycemic approach?If so,that's great to hear.I've recently had quite a few guys contact me via PM and say quite similar.All are saying they feel and look "fuller".Have far more energy throughout the day.Feel their recovery is better and also have far less water retention.So if I helped a few typing out my style of nutrition,thats more than I can ask for.

    I have a topic I really need to discuss,but I'm shocking my quads later today and don't have the focus right now to get into a lengthy post.That is all that has been on my mind the last 24 hrs.I'll return Monday and post on the topic I want to ramble on about.

    Have a good weekend guys........

    ~Pinnacle~

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    True Ossie....but as you can see I'm not trying to get to technical in this thread.I'm keeping this an easy to read/understand thread.After all,if I get too technical myself,my little pea brain might explode.I think I have house plants with better IQ's than myself..lol...


    ~Pinnacle~
    true
    .....lol............
    i have some headaches too

    recently i bought Williams Textbook of Endocrinology
    more headaches !!!!!!

    anyway you are more bright and substantial than the majority of mods and vets of this forum.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Idle thoughts by Pinnacle-williams-texbook.jpg  
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 06-03-2006 at 02:07 PM.

  31. #151
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    Werd,
    Thanks for the inspiration, as a brand new member here, it is nice to see brutal rigorous and blunt truth besieged to the masses. Ha, well thanks for the info and the verbal ass kicking. That should piss some off and unite others

  32. #152
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    How come I'm not growing anymore on cycles?


    I'm starting to see more and more of these type threads being posted by guys who are into their 4th or 5th cycles.
    Well guys...." Welcome to the wonderful world of anabolic steroids ".
    Did you honestly think you could run cycle after cycle with short breaks in between and keep gaining 7-9 pounds per cycle?If so,you've been living in a fantasy land.Doesn'y work that way as you are now starting to find out.Either you can continue on your path,or wise up and start taking more adequate time off between cycles.After all,most of you are quite young and have adequate testosterone levels to continue to grow naturally with proper nutrition and training.You guys are relying far too much on drugs at your age.It's pretty sad to see a young guy at 25 yrs old having to run 1500 mgs test wkly to get a few pounds off a 12 week cycle.If that same person would take 6-8 months off and train naturally,then run a cycle,he wouldn't be near the dose range he's currently at.And furthermore,he'd get good gains,too.Say your first cycle was 500 mgs test wkly.You ran a 12 week cycle and gained a nice amount of muscle.Average being 12-14 pounds of actual muscle acquired.Ran your PCT,the waited another 6 months,you could easily run the same dose and get almost the same results as your first cycle.But if you were "Fuk this" I'm getting back on ASAP.Your gains will be minimal.Oh,you'll put on weight,but most will be in the form of body fat.I promise you that.
    Anabolic steroids are just like any other drug.Your body gets a tolernace to them just as any other drug.You need to take adequate time off.About 6 months in between cycles seems to be best from my experience,and also observing friends throughout the years as well.There is no science around to back my theory,but I'm a firm believer this is a huge part of the problem when running cycles close together.Yes,there are many other factors that could possibly come into play.Nutrition being one.I think training is a huge factor.Some guys think they can take anabolics,go in the gym,have a half assed workout and grow......NO....NO...NO....NO....You need to lift heavy ass weight to failure.You think you can do 20 # dumbell laterals for 20 reps and grow?You're delusional.
    Another probem is guys start cycles at high body fat percentages.You start a cycle at 14-15 % BF and your estrogen levels start to soar.Guess what?Your growth will halt to a dead stop!High estrogen levels suppress bio-available testosterone .Besides taking Nolv/Adex ( or similar) during a cycle to keep estrogen levels in check,you need to start cycles on the lean side.By that I mean 8 % or so.It's much easier to control estrogen related water retention when your body fat is in the lower range.Plus,you are likely going to be putting on a few points of body fat during a mass cycle.So when the time comes to lean out,your body fat won't be at a rediculous 14 %.Thus making your cutting phase much easier and you'll loose far less of that hard earned muscle in the process.
    I know I'm rambling without going into depth,but I could go on and on for pages with this particular topic.But do you know what the real culprit behind all this is?It's Patience.In this case,lack of.You young guys want it all,RIGHT NOW!I understand.Alot o yu guys are just looking to bulk up for the babes.That's cool,but I'm not adressing you guys in this post as I could care less.These type guys are fly by nights and will be in and out of thi sport in no time flat.I'm addressing the young guys that want to persue bodybuilding(at any level),or fitness for a lifetime.Patience guys.Take your time.There is no rush.Get a vision in your head of what you'd like your physique to look like in 5-10 yrs.And yes,it will take at least 5 yrs to build a descent physique that is lean,hard and has dense muscle tissue.The kind of muscle tissue that if you took a month off from training,you wouldn't loose any size.
    Previously,in posts throughout this thread I've addressed nutrition,plus training.Both of these things take years of trial/error to perfect.Truth is,you'll never perfect either,as your body will constantly undergo change as you grow,and age.I don't want to sound like a broken record(remember records?),but you guys really need to back off the drug use.You'll need them more in the latter years(trust me).And believe me,I know all too well how mentally addictive these drugs are.I'll openly admit I'm mentally addicted to anabolic steroids.I just hope this post steers a few guys in the right direction.I've been around for some time and have seen young guys fuk themselves for life abusing these drugs.I'm fuked too.I can never come off testosterone all together.I can,but my recovery would be brutal and take at least a year to get my system"somewhat" back to normal for aman my age.Don't lewt that happen to you at your young ages.I'm older,not that I'm using that as an excuse,because I'm not.I'm just sending out a warning to you younger guys.There si a fine line between "Use" and "abuse".Take heed,please.
    Youhave to practice self control,and patience.Wouldn't it suck to be 27 and on HRT for life just becsuse you wanted to be "huge" jus for no other reason than to be "huge"?A couple of guys I know weren't evem 200 pounds at 10 % BF.That is a far cry from huge.A couple of threads I recently read,the guys were well under 200 pounds and hit a brick wall using,well abusing,anabolics.What do you think these guys will do?Jack up the dose and continue on with their cycles?Or get off and recover?My guess is they'll continue on.PLEASE,don't be like these guys that posted these threads.If you aren't growing on a cycle,get off immediately,recover and don't evn think about getting back "ON" for another 6-8 months.
    Most of you guys on the board are somewhere in your 20's.Focus on training/nutrition.These are the two key elements for sucess.Without of proper understanding,and in depth knowledge of either,all the drugs in China won't be of any help.


    More to come........


    ~Pinnacle~

  33. #153
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    Awesome post Pinn. Keep em coming.

    1buffsob

  34. #154
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Change your training routine frequently is what "THEY" say.After all,that's what "THEY" tout in those shiny magazines,right?"THEY" say constant change in routines keeps growth coming.Boy did those writers lie to me.What "THEY" should have said is from time to time make some changes in your routine.That's all that is needed.You need not be going from some form of HIT training to high volume training ,or the other countless training methods.If it ain't broke,don't fix it.Look at the bodybuilders of today,and yesteryear for that matter.Maybe once in awhile they did/do try something different,but always wind up "Going Home".
    Exactly...


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Changing a routine from that of compound movements,to easier,less effective isolation movements does nothing but destroy your purpose.
    Ditto.. that's two steps backward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    So guys,particularly the younger guys,when you find a routine that works for you,stick with it.Refine it.MOst importantly is have patience.A great physique isn't built in one year.It takes years and years of hard work.Don't be like the average Joe and call it quits cause you don't look like Arnold after one year of training.Chances are you'll never look like Arnold.But that doesn't mean you can't remain on your quest from building the best physique possible with the genetics you were dealt.Certainly you can.You just have to want it.Well do ya?WANT IT,that is.If so,make it happen,starting NOW!

    ~Pinnacle~
    co-signed!

    Narkissos

  35. #155
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    This last post was mind-blowing.

    I'll tell you why in a PM Pinn

    ¬C

  36. #156
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    keep it coming Pinn........................
    _____________________

    Remember.............for us to help you you need to help us....................stats and exp.........

    Source checks and Ugl's to be kept to PM's
    dont ask for source checks unless you have 100 posts/and 45 days minimum as a participating member.........

    Booz.. a long-standing member of the AR Police:

    sorry but absolutely no sources will be checked at this present time....

  37. #157
    Sta11ion's Avatar
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    The last few sentences are true, I am in my late 20's and I had a scare were I might of been on permentaly on HRT. You dont what to be 28 and inject yourself for the rest of your life. I know it will benefit me when I am older but not now. I hope people listen to what this man is saying. Patients
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    How come I'm not growing anymore on cycles?


    I'm starting to see more and more of these type threads being posted by guys who are into their 4th or 5th cycles.
    Well guys...." Welcome to the wonderful world of anabolic steroids ".
    Did you honestly think you could run cycle after cycle with short breaks in between and keep gaining 7-9 pounds per cycle?If so,you've been living in a fantasy land.Doesn'y work that way as you are now starting to find out.Either you can continue on your path,or wise up and start taking more adequate time off between cycles.After all,most of you are quite young and have adequate testosterone levels to continue to grow naturally with proper nutrition and training.You guys are relying far too much on drugs at your age.It's pretty sad to see a young guy at 25 yrs old having to run 1500 mgs test wkly to get a few pounds off a 12 week cycle.If that same person would take 6-8 months off and train naturally,then run a cycle,he wouldn't be near the dose range he's currently at.And furthermore,he'd get good gains,too.Say your first cycle was 500 mgs test wkly.You ran a 12 week cycle and gained a nice amount of muscle.Average being 12-14 pounds of actual muscle acquired.Ran your PCT,the waited another 6 months,you could easily run the same dose and get almost the same results as your first cycle.But if you were "Fuk this" I'm getting back on ASAP.Your gains will be minimal.Oh,you'll put on weight,but most will be in the form of body fat.I promise you that.
    Anabolic steroids are just like any other drug.Your body gets a tolernace to them just as any other drug.You need to take adequate time off.About 6 months in between cycles seems to be best from my experience,and also observing friends throughout the years as well.There is no science around to back my theory,but I'm a firm believer this is a huge part of the problem when running cycles close together.Yes,there are many other factors that could possibly come into play.Nutrition being one.I think training is a huge factor.Some guys think they can take anabolics,go in the gym,have a half assed workout and grow......NO....NO...NO....NO....You need to lift heavy ass weight to failure.You think you can do 20 # dumbell laterals for 20 reps and grow?You're delusional.
    Another probem is guys start cycles at high body fat percentages.You start a cycle at 14-15 % BF and your estrogen levels start to soar.Guess what?Your growth will halt to a dead stop!High estrogen levels suppress bio-available testosterone .Besides taking Nolv/Adex ( or similar) during a cycle to keep estrogen levels in check,you need to start cycles on the lean side.By that I mean 8 % or so.It's much easier to control estrogen related water retention when your body fat is in the lower range.Plus,you are likely going to be putting on a few points of body fat during a mass cycle.So when the time comes to lean out,your body fat won't be at a rediculous 14 %.Thus making your cutting phase much easier and you'll loose far less of that hard earned muscle in the process.
    I know I'm rambling without going into depth,but I could go on and on for pages with this particular topic.But do you know what the real culprit behind all this is?It's Patience.In this case,lack of.You young guys want it all,RIGHT NOW!I understand.Alot o yu guys are just looking to bulk up for the babes.That's cool,but I'm not adressing you guys in this post as I could care less.These type guys are fly by nights and will be in and out of thi sport in no time flat.I'm addressing the young guys that want to persue bodybuilding(at any level),or fitness for a lifetime.Patience guys.Take your time.There is no rush.Get a vision in your head of what you'd like your physique to look like in 5-10 yrs.And yes,it will take at least 5 yrs to build a descent physique that is lean,hard and has dense muscle tissue.The kind of muscle tissue that if you took a month off from training,you wouldn't loose any size.
    Previously,in posts throughout this thread I've addressed nutrition,plus training.Both of these things take years of trial/error to perfect.Truth is,you'll never perfect either,as your body will constantly undergo change as you grow,and age.I don't want to sound like a broken record(remember records?),but you guys really need to back off the drug use.You'll need them more in the latter years(trust me).And believe me,I know all too well how mentally addictive these drugs are.I'll openly admit I'm mentally addicted to anabolic steroids.I just hope this post steers a few guys in the right direction.I've been around for some time and have seen young guys fuk themselves for life abusing these drugs.I'm fuked too.I can never come off testosterone all together.I can,but my recovery would be brutal and take at least a year to get my system"somewhat" back to normal for aman my age.Don't lewt that happen to you at your young ages.I'm older,not that I'm using that as an excuse,because I'm not.I'm just sending out a warning to you younger guys.There si a fine line between "Use" and "abuse".Take heed,please.
    Youhave to practice self control,and patience.Wouldn't it suck to be 27 and on HRT for life just becsuse you wanted to be "huge" jus for no other reason than to be "huge"?A couple of guys I know weren't evem 200 pounds at 10 % BF.That is a far cry from huge.A couple of threads I recently read,the guys were well under 200 pounds and hit a brick wall using,well abusing,anabolics.What do you think these guys will do?Jack up the dose and continue on with their cycles?Or get off and recover?My guess is they'll continue on.PLEASE,don't be like these guys that posted these threads.If you aren't growing on a cycle,get off immediately,recover and don't evn think about getting back "ON" for another 6-8 months.
    Most of you guys on the board are somewhere in your 20's.Focus on training/nutrition.These are the two key elements for sucess.Without of proper understanding,and in depth knowledge of either,all the drugs in China won't be of any help.


    More to come........


    ~Pinnacle~

  38. #158
    manc's Avatar
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    quality reading pinn. can some one remind an englishman how much is a cup? when measuring food. thanks

  39. #159
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    great posts pinn.. keep it up brotha.. props..

  40. #160
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    1 cup is 250ml

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