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  1. #1
    cj1capp's Avatar
    cj1capp is offline Anabolic Member
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    Lightbulb Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron

    I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


    I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

    [Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron
    A basic guide for the lazy man

    There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin , but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    60mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
    • Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg’s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3
    HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.

    Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 6/20/05)

  2. #2
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    The original post in the sticky was totally removed by the original poster, so having the post as a sticky didn't make sense anymore. Here's what the post was:

    RedBaron's Guide - Putting it all together HGH + LR3 + Insulin

    Since it didn't make sense to have that as a sticky, it was removed.

  3. #3
    InsaneInTheMembrane's Avatar
    InsaneInTheMembrane is offline Anabolic Member
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    I hope Redbaron has his updated version out soon (and re-make it a sticky)....otherwise we'll just have to keep bumping this thread for people to read!

    cheers

  4. #4
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
    Doc.Sust is offline Retired "hall of famer/elite powerlifter"
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    i hope when he does re write this it is made a sticky

  5. #5
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    Red isn't gone, he is still around. He is having troubles connecting to this site and a few other sites too. Once that issue is resolved you will see him online a lot more.

    -Gear

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Hey there guys!

    Gear has the scoop right. What has happened to me is that I "upgraded" to a higher speed DSL connection at home a few months back. Since then, I haven't been able to get on to AR and about 3-4 other forums that I used to check in with regularly. I have put a bug in my providers ear on several occasions, but to date they haven't fixed anything for me.

    At home I had rewritten and updated a few guides that had been up for a long while. I thought I had successfully transferred them to a flash key disk, and brought them to one of my offices to attempt the update, since it just didn't seem like it was happening from home anytime soon. I pasted the new guides over the old, but after doing so I realized I had the wrong files ... thus the update coming soon in place of the existing guides. I figured that was better than an unrelated topic pasted in error.

    At both of my offices, they have updated the network to monitor usage pretty closely, so I have for the most part avoided getting on the forums too much from them. I will try in the near future to get the guides (old or new) and a working connection to this forum in the same room at the same time. When I get that going, I will get the guides back up and online.

    Well, until then (or until I figure out what my DSL providers deal is), I had better be off for now. Everyone stay safe and take care. Hope to be more present in the near future.

  7. #7
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
    Doc.Sust is offline Retired "hall of famer/elite powerlifter"
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    the new guide definately needs to be made a sticky, that is a very informative post for newbies and others who dont know much about HGH

  8. #8
    cj1capp's Avatar
    cj1capp is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj1capp
    I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


    I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

    [Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron
    A basic guide for the lazy man

    There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin , but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    60mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
    • Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg’s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3
    HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.

    Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 6/20/05)
    the controversy grows!

  9. #9
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    Hey there guys. I am sorry that my ideas have been called into question. I will make this very simple to solve to the satisfaction of all. Steroid Peptides is the owner of this board’s chosen representative, and Anthony Roberts is the owner’s good friend and a business partner as well. Out of respect to Brian and his board, I will not stoop to playing into a bunch of juvenile games.

    It is true enough that I don't site a lot of sources in my "posts". I don’t write professional articles, nor do I spend an undue amount of time cutting and pasting pubmed. Quite frankly, this forum (or any others for that matter) couldn’t afford to pay me what I make to “publish”. Those “articles” you see are done purely for financial gain … and all of the cut and paste pubmed references still do absolutely nothing to take it out of the realm of “speculation”, irregardless of who thinks differently. The fact that my primary critic uses pubmed and the like as such a crutch is just an indication of his lack of any real education in the area under discussion. Pubmed is a STARTING place for research … a researchers “forum” of sorts. I can prove just about ANY idea I would like to misapplying Pubmed studies. It is NOT the bible, nor was it ever intended to be. REAL doctors understand that … people wishing to play them on the Internet do not.

    Are some of my ideas "speculative"? Sure ... I challenge ANYONE dealing with the areas that we discuss here to do anything more than speculate. Citing studies done on rats, monkeys, pigs, etc. and then theorizing as to the effects on humans ... is that not "speculation". Taking a random study, and then theorizing that it will hold true across age, race, gender, genetics, and general health of a subject ... is that not "speculation". You can certainly feel free to call any or everything that I ever posted simply "brotelligence" or what ever the heck you wish to coin it, but I would challenge those that would throw stones as to their qualifications to do so. I am a legitimate professional, trained in the areas under discussion. My critics are the ones exhibiting the sin of "brotelligence" as they are fond of calling it. Sports medicine, genetics, etc. are respectable areas of medicine, and most certainly possessing all of the knowledge of the human body; anatomy, physiology, endocrine functions and interactions, and how to treat and maximize the same. At last count, an English degree teaches you how to "write purdy" ... I don't remember a segment in physiology, endocrine function, or anything relating to sports medicine in the curriculum

    What I had tried to offer is two-fold ... I have practiced what I have preached for about 25 years with respect to bodybuilding, powerlifting, and using enhancing substances to further performance in all sports. On the other side, I am a professional dealing daily with many of the peptides and substances I write about in real world and research applications. I legitimately carry a nice alphabet behind my name, and many of the critics have actually used some of my actual “published” work and cut and paste references in their "articles". I legitimately carry (*a lot of professional degrees I would rather not have publicly hanging out on the internet*), and have worked in practice and research for many years.

    I live out and teach the next generation of professionals in the arena that these critics "theorize" about. They haven’t even seen most of the substances they are rattling on about. Despite their delusions of grandeur, reading for a couple of hours on pubmed, making a judgment call on what you found, writing about it pasting a bunch of random crap from pubmed, then deeming yourself some kind of “expert” on the issue just doesn’t cut it in the real world. Can you make a few bucks doing that? Sure, but it doesn’t make you a “professional” or an expert anymore than watching Apollo13 makes me an astronaut.

    I really don't care whether anyone takes to heart what I have ever said or not … I honestly don’t have anything to prove to anyone. I present my ideas for those that are interested in reading them, doing their own research to determine the potential merit for their situation, and if all checks are in place testing them out. If I have expressed an idea, it has personally been used on myself and at least a half dozen of my close friends. If you would like to say it is crap, certainly feel free to do so until the cows come home … quite frankly it doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit. It works well for many professional athletes and me … and I will continue to use my “crap” ideas to succeed thank you very much.

    Bottom line is this ... I haven't now or ever had anything to sell, profit, gain, or otherwise benefit from spending my time on this forum. I was here simply to try to give back ... I count many top professional bodybuilders and other athletes as my personal friends and mentors over the past three decades or so. I love the sport and have built many great relationships and memories through the years. When finding forums such as this I rejoiced at finding a place to freely discuss ideas, and to try to point youth just starting out in the sport in a path the would keep the safe and productive. I had some good guidance years ago, and I felt it was a very small way to try to give back.

    As that was my only purpose, and as is blatantly apparent by some entries in this thread and the general vibe of the forum of late, my presence is no longer desired or appreciated. I have been unable to log in from home for some time anyway. I will gladly and very graciously make this the very last entry to this forum, and the last visit to Anabolic Review. I am doing so without any bad feelings or problems of any kind with this forum. I will try my best to remove all of my “crap” from this forum before I go so that it may be replaced with "reputable" works (from the eye of a non-medical professional) of the caliber desired by the powers that be. I wish all of you great health and prosperity in the future. Godspeed to you all!

    RedBaron over and out!
    Last edited by RedBaron; 10-05-2006 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj1capp
    I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


    I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

    [Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin – by RedBaron
    A basic guide for the lazy man

    There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin , but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

    THE CYCLE

    Weeks 1- (20-30) – HGH – On 5/ off 2
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s - first thing in the morning on workout days – early afternoon on non-workout days
    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s first thing in the morning
    • 2 – 2.5 IU’s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
    All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) – Long R3 IGF-1 – Every day
    60mcg’s intramuscular
    • post work out on workout days
    • first thing in the morning on non workout days

    Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) – Humalog – Workout days only
    • 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular

    IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
    Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
    • Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
    • Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
    • Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
    Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
    keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

    OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

    Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
    • 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

    [alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
    Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
    For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
    Days 1-3 25 mcgs
    Days 4-6 50 mcgs
    Days 7-9 75 mcgs
    Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
    Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
    Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
    Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
    Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

    DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

    HGH
    HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU’s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 – 2.0 IU’s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU’s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

    When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 – 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

    You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

    IGF-1
    When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

    There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

    HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg’s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

    For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn’t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

    Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

    I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg’s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

    Insulin
    Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

    Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

    For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU’s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
    Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
    Sub-q - 3-4 hours
    Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
    Sub-q 4-5 hours

    Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

    If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


    T3
    HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

    If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

    If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

    Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

    Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite …all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.

    Happy growing!
    RedBaron
    (last updated 6/20/05)
    back up to the top

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion
    Hooker stop being an a s s hole. Everone know you have alot to say. There are better things to do than pick on people with different ideas.

    Red and people like him are needed here.
    This is one post i did not expect to see

    RB.. you will be missed

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion
    Hooker stop being an a s s hole. Everone know you have alot to say. There are better things to do than pick on people with different ideas.

    Red and people like him are needed here.



    I think Antwon has watched to many Hilander episodes and believes there can "Only be One"

  13. #13
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lion
    Hooker stop being an a s s hole. Everone know you have alot to say. There are better things to do than pick on people with different ideas.

    Red and people like him are needed here.
    thank you lion, much respect for that comment!

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    The initial decision to remove this thread was mine, or rather to unstick it. Originally, I had seen several errors when I read it, and decided that it's removal was appropriate due to this fact. However, since it had been removed by the original poster, that provided me with a diplomatic way to unstick the thread and claim it was due to that mitigating circumstance. In the end, the thread was unstuck because of inaccuracies and a lack of presentation of any real evidence to ensure the veracity or validity of several claims in the piece (which were later, and less diplomatically pointed out by Roberts).

    I'm sorry if this thread's removal caused any undue strife here, and it was with the best of intentions that it was done, as I only wish to provide the members here with the best possible peptides and information on them. I should have stated the true reasons for removal earlier, though I wished to be diplomatic about things.

    Again, this article was removed for the inaccuracies pointed out by Roberts, as well as others he did not point out. I'm sorry this was not stated from the outset, but the less diplomatic fact of the matter is that I removed this thread from being stuck in the IGF forum due to inaccuracies and incorrect claims.

    I'm very sorry, and I tried my best to handle this diplomatically, but at this point, I will defer to simply stating what Roberts pointed out, namely that there is no place in the IGF forum for a stuck thread containing this many inaccuracies.

    I'm truely sorry for any undue strife my actions have caused.

  15. #15
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steroid-peptides
    The initial decision to remove this thread was mine, or rather to unstick it. Originally, I had seen several errors when I read it, and decided that it's removal was appropriate due to this fact. However, since it had been removed by the original poster, that provided me with a diplomatic way to unstick the thread and claim it was due to that mitigating circumstance. In the end, the thread was unstuck because of inaccuracies and a lack of presentation of any real evidence to ensure the veracity or validity of several claims in the piece (which were later, and less diplomatically pointed out by Roberts).

    I'm sorry if this thread's removal caused any undue strife here, and it was with the best of intentions that it was done, as I only wish to provide the members here with the best possible peptides and information on them. I should have stated the true reasons for removal earlier, though I wished to be diplomatic about things.

    Again, this article was removed for the inaccuracies pointed out by Roberts, as well as others he did not point out. I'm sorry this was not stated from the outset, but the less diplomatic fact of the matter is that I removed this thread from being stuck in the IGF forum due to inaccuracies and incorrect claims.

    I'm very sorry, and I tried my best to handle this diplomatically, but at this point, I will defer to simply stating what Roberts pointed out, namely that there is no place in the IGF forum for a stuck thread containing this many inaccuracies.

    I'm truely sorry for any undue strife my actions have caused.
    whatever you say tony!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    whatever you say tony!
    I'm not steroid peptides, and they're not me. The owner of the site knows who they are, and whom I am, and I think he's very sure that I am not them.

  17. #17
    rodge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    I'm not steroid peptides, and they're not me. The owner of the site knows who they are, and whom I am, and I think he's very sure that I am not them.
    then how come that you both use the same two ip-adresses?



    both of these are used by either one of you.

    -rodge

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodge
    then how come that you both use the same two ip-adresses?



    both of these are used by either one of you.

    -rodge

    LMFAO

    them two and carlito must live together like that film three man and a baby that was the shit
    no open source posting
    keep all source request's to PM'S please


    someone once said to me a clever man learn's by his own mistake's. But a wise man learn's by the mistake's of other people.


    detailed detection times
    at least 45 day's active use and 100 posts for a source check
    unsure about the rule's please read up
    thread for first cycle choices


    SOURCE CHECKS CLICK HERE

  19. #19
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stocky121
    LMFAO

    them two and carlito must live together like that film three man and a baby that was the shit

  20. #20
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stocky121
    LMFAO

    them two and carlito must live together like that film three man and a baby that was the shit
    carlito is the ted danson like character

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    I've used their account to send PMs to people (because mine are disabled), and I set up their account for them before they were active here (I brought them here as a sponsor).

    I've used the PM system to send PMs to people (Carlito, etc...) through their account, because I don't want mine enabled.

    My IP also matches Sienna's IP, probably matches Jerzey's IP, and probably also matches one of the owner's IP address too. There's a pretty good explanation for all of those, though....and the owner knows why those IP's match mine too....so does BMF2, and no, they're not me either.
    Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 10-03-2006 at 03:05 PM.

  22. #22
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    I've used their account to send PMs to people (because mine are disabled), and I set up their account for them before they were active here (I brought them here as a sponsor).

    I've used the PM system to send PMs to people (Carlito, etc...) through their account, because I don't want mine enabled.

    My IP also matches Sienna's IP, probably matches Jerzey's IP, and probably also matches one of the owner's IP address too. There's a pretty good explanation for all of those, though....and the owner knows why those IP's match mine too....so does BMF2, and no, they're not me either.
    right back at you!

  23. #23
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    bit by bit he's loosing more and more credibility. what a shame for such a knowledgeable person and all that because he can't control his enormous ego.

    can't think of anyone who still looks up to him or even has something nice to say about him. i almost starting to feel pitty for him.

    -rodge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    right back at you!
    You know.....2 of those members are actually Girls....

    I suppose you think I'm everyone who's IP matches mine...meaning I'm 2 girls, 2 seperate peptide companies, as well as the owner of this site.

    Nice try. Lame as the rest of what you say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodge
    bit by bit he's loosing more and more credibility. what a shame for such a knowledgeable person and all that because he can't control his enormous ego.

    can't think of anyone who still looks up to him or even has something nice to say about him. i almost starting to feel pitty for him.

    -rodge
    Say hi to JB and Swolecat and B DTR, and TOJ, and Vette, etc, etc, etc...for me. Remember them? The other mods who talked the same shit as you do....
    Last edited by Property of Steroid.com; 10-03-2006 at 03:36 PM.

  26. #26
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    You know.....2 of those members are actually Girls....

    I suppose you think I'm everyone who's IP matches mine...meaning I'm 2 girls, 2 seperate peptide companies, as well as the owner of this site.

    Nice try. Lame as the rest of what you say.
    buddy you realy dont know when to shut up, u just dig yourself in a hole time and time again.if you didnt open your mouth and let such egotisitical bullshit come out.........it is apparent you can not even control yourself, what is the saying, you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar,(something close to that but you get the point) simple lesson leanred in first grade, i cant believe you dont get that concept . any one ,in any business ,gets that concept. i am done fighting with you, best of luck. by the way you forgot something.............






























  27. #27
    Doc.Sust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    Say hi to JB and Swolecat and B DTR, and TOJ, and Vette, etc, etc, etc...for me. Remember them? The other mods who talked the same shit as you do....
    is that a threat i detect??

    must be all the mods ever here. they were all out to get you i supose, the problem could NEVER be you or the way you act

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    buddy you realy dont know when to shut up, u just dig yourself in a hole time and time again.if you didnt open your mouth and let such egotisitical bullshit come out.........it is apparent you can not even control yourself, what is the saying, you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar,(something close to that butyou get the point) simple lesson leanred in first grade, i cant believe you dont get that concept . any one ,in any business ,gets that concept. i am done, best of luck. by the way you forgot something.............
    Thanks for all of your unasked for advice. It's almost as terrible as your AAS advice.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    Thanks for all of your unasked for advice. It's almost as terrible as your AAS advice.
    obviously big mouth you dont know me very well. i just about NEVER give advice on aas , more on medical injuries / rehab,work out questions, and powerlifting(which i have an elite totals in 2 weight classes and multiple records), and trust me buddy i have the education and credentials to back what i say in those forums

  30. #30
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    AR I did have a lot of respect for you man. You are one smart mofo, and Being that I am in the sports medicine field, I do look up to you and enjoy reading through your knowledge. But you my friend are A DICKK.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    obviously big mouth you dont know me very well. i just about NEVER give advice on aas , more on medical injuries / rehab and powerlifting(which i have an elite total in 2 weight classes), and trust me buddy i have the education to back what i say in those forums
    Doc no need to justify yourself to him or anybody else for that matter..The people you have helped and many others on this board no you are a stand up cat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicAndre
    AR I did have a lot of respect for you man. You are one smart mofo, and Being that I am in the sports medicine field, I do look up to you and enjoy reading through your knowledge. But you my friend are A DICKK.
    You dont have shit to do with this so do get personal on an open forum, your 2 cents arent wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGuns101
    You dont have shit to do with this so do get personal on an open forum, your 2 cents arent wanted.
    it ok guns, everyone has an opinion and its ok, look , everyone name calling and bickering arent going to get anyone anywhere, lets just leave this alone, it is already to out of control .lets spend our time doing better things than this

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranKieC
    Doc no need to justify yourself to him or anybody else for that matter..The people you have helped and many others on this board no you are a stand up cat!
    thank you frankie, i appreciate it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    thank you frankie, i appreciate it

    No doubt man..I wouldn't say it if it weren't true..

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicAndre
    AR I did have a lot of respect for you man. You are one smart mofo, and Being that I am in the sports medicine field, I do look up to you and enjoy reading through your knowledge. But you my friend are A DICKK.
    I never claimed not to be. People read what I have to say because I'm right, not because I'm nice. Nobody ever accused me of being nice, and I certainly don't claim to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc.Sust
    it ok guns, everyone has an opinion and its ok, look , everyone name calling and bickering arent going to get anyone anywhere, lets just leave this alone, it is already to out of control .lets spend our time doing better things than this
    I hear ya but for someone to pop in and to talk shit is retarded, you and Anthony have been going at this for awhile now, its your two guys arguement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    I never claimed not to be. People read what I have to say because I'm right, not because I'm nice. Nobody ever accused me of being nice, and I certainly don't claim to be.
    True sometimes I think you pride yourself on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGuns101
    I hear ya but for someone to pop in and to talk shit is retarded, you and Anthony have been going at this for awhile now, its your two guys arguement.
    i do see what you say, but i never looked at it like that, i didnt want an argument, all i wanted was for RB's post be put back up to help others who know very little on how to use HGH and looked what happened RB is now gone, people are screaming at each other , fights are brewing, mudslining back and forth, this isnt professional or educational. including myself and anthony, we could have all handled this much better. i cant agree with how RB was slamed and how his article was trashed, so i said something and BOOM this happens which is not at all what i wanted. what is done is done, so lets all just move fwd and enough of this, it has to stop somewhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts
    I never claimed not to be. People read what I have to say because I'm right, not because I'm nice. Nobody ever accused me of being nice, and I certainly don't claim to be.
    also nobody ever said you were always right.

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