Results 1 to 35 of 35
Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By one8nine

Thread: Injection pain: Why it happens / How to prevent it / How to cure it

  1. #1
    one8nine's Avatar
    one8nine is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,469

    Injection pain: Why it happens / How to prevent it / How to cure it

    Welcome to the series of injection threads by one8nine and MuscleScience




    First we'll talk about esters:

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=352741

    Ester – An ester is a chemical modification were a alkyl group or groups are added to increase circulating time of a steroid compound, which controls the release of the hormone into the blood. The first word in the chemical name is the hormone, and the second word is the ester attached to the hormone; for example in Testosterone Enanthate the hormone is “Testosterone ” and the ester is “Enanthate ”. The only difference between Testosterone Enanthate, Testosterone Decanoate and Testosterone Propionate is the rate of release of the hormone into the blood stream.

    Short ester – breaks down more quickly, requires EOD or ED injections. Examples are acetate and propionate

    Long ester – allows for a slower break down, therefore 2XW injections. Examples are Enanthate and Decanoate.

    17aa – Changing (Alpha Alkalizing) a hormone’s seventeenth position from carbon to a double hydrogen (C -> H2). Also known as “Methyl”. This process protects the hormone through the first pass in the liver, allowing a usable amount of hormone to be left over. Examples are M1T (Methyl-1-Test) and M-Tren (Metrienolone)

    Suspension – A non-esterfied hormone (Testosterone, no ester) or a 17aa that is “suspended” in a liquid solution to be injected or swallowed. More commonly water based but can also be found oil based. The most common example is injectable Winstrol. Very painful due to fast release and also ED or 2XD injections are necessary. The only real advantages to using suspensions are the quick rates at which they enter the blood and are released from the blood, great for controlling exact levels and avoiding testing.
    What causes (non infection related) injection pain?

    first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
    secind, the concentration of the gear.
    third, the solvents used.
    fourth, injecting too quickly
    fifth, virgin muscle.

    Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
    Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.
    A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate - cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.

    Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
    Building off of point 1: Let's say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.
    Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
    This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol ) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

    The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization. Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil's weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

    If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

    If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

    How do I prevent pain before I inject?

    Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.
    Dont bother with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

    Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

    Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

    If none of these work you could have dirty gear. Its possible there could be particles (although bacteriostatic) in the gear that are not causing infection, but still cause in site infection that made it through a filter.
    See how to filter link: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4177581

    How do I deal with pain once I have it?

    The worst thing you can do is ice it. Cold will help the crystals fall out of solution/suspension.
    Its okay to take some ibuprofin to decrease the swelling, and help with pain.
    Also being in a hot tub, or jacuzzi, or warm bubble bath will help melt the crystals down. Using a heating pad can help also.




    Links to the rest of the series:

    The difference between normal injection pain and infection
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=358617

    How to filter/sterilize gear
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4177581

    Passing out from injections
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=358622
    Last edited by one8nine; 09-07-2008 at 10:14 PM.
    gefit8991 and R2D1 like this.

  2. #2
    binder's Avatar
    binder is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    877
    good read.

    this is very basic and is easy to follow for all levels of forum users. thanks for the awsome post.

  3. #3
    one8nine's Avatar
    one8nine is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,469
    thx.

  4. #4
    Erdayimliftin is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    18
    friggin awesome! Thanks for the post one8nine. This will really help alot with my injections!

  5. #5
    CeeLo's Avatar
    CeeLo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Where there's food!
    Posts
    1,058
    One8nine, you never ciest to amaze me. Your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it is unparallel.

  6. #6
    ozz1eplayboy is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    11
    man i have learnt more in 5minutes read this then all my yrs at school best post i have read on here thanx for making it ezy to understand too........
    Last edited by ozz1eplayboy; 09-08-2008 at 02:15 AM.

  7. #7
    gman is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    south carolina
    Posts
    3
    I Have a question 4 any body who would have the knowledge of drug testing if I do any analbolic steroid ,would it be picked up on my drug test ,we do random piss test,I know it picks up the basics weed ,coke,and all the oyher crap ,I would realy respect your answer if you could help ,I am not using yet but very serious.I hope someone can help thankyou.

  8. #8
    free_spirit's Avatar
    free_spirit is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    60
    Gaawd, wow...thank you, appreciate your great post/s, always excellent information. Thanks.
    Last edited by free_spirit; 09-08-2008 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #9
    muffin man is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    114
    where can one acquire "sterile unfiltered oil"?

    thanks, great stuff.

  10. #10
    binder's Avatar
    binder is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    877
    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    I Have a question 4 any body who would have the knowledge of drug testing if I do any analbolic steroid ,would it be picked up on my drug test ,we do random piss test,I know it picks up the basics weed ,coke,and all the oyher crap ,I would realy respect your answer if you could help ,I am not using yet but very serious.I hope someone can help thankyou.
    please post your own thread. This isn't even close to that topic in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by muffin man View Post
    where can one acquire "sterile unfiltered oil"?

    thanks, great stuff.

    Again, please read the forum rules and post in the appropriate forum and not in someone's thread. You can find this information by reading. There is actually a huge banner at the top of the page that refers you to oils used. You can also google it and find it as oil is just that, oil. It's not illegal to have, buy, sell or whatever sterile oil.

  11. #11
    Mike111 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    184
    thanks alot bro

  12. #12
    muffin man is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    114
    sorry my bad. i thought because i was asking about a specific thing mentioned above that it would be cool. i'll go check it out though, thanks man.

  13. #13
    kloter1's Avatar
    kloter1 is offline Southern Steel Bodybuilding
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bubba Army
    Posts
    5,824
    The test I have right now is considerably more painful than my last cycle. its t300 and holy hell the inj site is very sore the next day and it takes about 6 days to fully go away. this has become a problem when i shoot delts i have to hold off on my shoulder day. most of the time ill take 2 ibuprofen three times a day to help.

    Lets say the pain is a 7 on a 1-10 scale. by warming the oil beforehand, how much less painful would it be? a 5 or 6?
    Last edited by kloter1; 09-19-2008 at 04:40 PM.

  14. #14
    LATS60's Avatar
    LATS60 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,662
    Heating the oil only serves to let it pass through the needle without having to apply so much pressure, therefore less movement and less PIP.
    How to reduce post injection pain(pip).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Post injection pain can literally be a pain in the butt, amongst other places.
    Hygiene and sterility, pre injection is obviously paramount in avoiding PIP.
    We all know what that means.

    Ok, for the last 2 months iv'e been using the Z track method and found that PIP especially in my quads is practically non-existent.

    How to employ the Z track method?
    Firstly get your injection point, then pull the skin across or down from that point, this moves the cutaneous and subcutaneous tissues a centimetre or two, this helps reduce the sensitivity of nerve endings, remembering to keep an eye on the injection point.

    Next insert the needle sharply in at a 90dg angle to the depth you need.
    Inject the steroid (after aspirating) at a rate of about 10 secs/ml, when fully injected keep the needle in place for another 10secs, so allowing the steroid to seep into the muscle.
    Remove the syringe quickly, at exactly the angle you went in and release the skin, this is what stops any of your steroid leaking out and reduces bleeds, then apply a little pressure to the area, but don't massage the area, this can cause some of the oil to be released back up the needle track and into subcutaneous tissue, which can lead to swelling and PIP.

    Exercising the muscle afterwards will assist the absorption of the steroid by increasing blood flow to the area.

    Finally, if you know where and how to inject safely into the ventrogluteal muscle, this is the best choice as there are no major nerves or blood vessel.
    Last edited by LATS60; 09-20-2008 at 03:37 PM.

  15. #15
    kloter1's Avatar
    kloter1 is offline Southern Steel Bodybuilding
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bubba Army
    Posts
    5,824
    I dont think i could go in at 90degree but its def an angle to where i dont have any of it come back out. im going to try the heat suggestion next.

  16. #16
    kloter1's Avatar
    kloter1 is offline Southern Steel Bodybuilding
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Bubba Army
    Posts
    5,824
    well I heated my stuff up and everything became so much easier. drawing went alot faster. Shooting went faster but i definetly felt the warmth going in and the post-injection pain was minimized to almost nothing. I was shocked this morning that I had almost no pain. sweetness!

  17. #17
    Haus of Hell is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    33
    Been my experience that when you go too deep into the muscle tissue, it also cause more PIP-specifically the quad or other areas with little fat.

  18. #18
    Bonaparte's Avatar
    Bonaparte is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    13,506
    Quote Originally Posted by kloter1 View Post
    I dont think i could go in at 90degree but its def an angle to where i dont have any of it come back out. im going to try the heat suggestion next.
    90 degrees is straight in. What's hard about that?

  19. #19
    tominpa is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    22
    I read that a hot tub will help the crystals absorb, would it be ok to go into a hot tub shortly after injecting? or should I let the muscles absorb the test first and wait till the next day?

  20. #20
    markimarkie is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    london
    Posts
    2
    Please advise how do I deal with pain once I have it?
    heath.....

  21. #21
    tboney's Avatar
    tboney is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by markimarkie View Post
    Please advise how do I deal with pain once I have it?
    heath.....
    I have used heat compresses and massaged the inj site.

  22. #22
    illaJ's Avatar
    illaJ is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CANADA!
    Posts
    91
    its been 48 hours since my first injection and i have a tiny bit of discomfort when i lay on my side (it was in my glute) and a little swelling. thats probably just me injecting too fast right?

    ill def keep monitoring it but this really gives me confidence it isnt infected, thanks

  23. #23
    The Chew is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17
    Is it adviseable to use a heating pad or something of the sort everytime one injects just to prevent crystallization or should you just use it as needed? seems like it could be a decent preventative measure.

  24. #24
    -Ender-'s Avatar
    -Ender- is offline Not Retired
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chaos
    Posts
    20,970
    depends on the individual. some have more pain than others. some don't have any

  25. #25
    -Ender-'s Avatar
    -Ender- is offline Not Retired
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chaos
    Posts
    20,970
    bump

  26. #26
    e.nergie is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    vancouver
    Posts
    42
    i pinned in my shoulder the other day and now my arms red, i've pinned my ass the entire cycle and haven't had any issues but now my arm's itchy and has a red hue to it(maybe from just scratching it), ive looked at the other infections and it isn't any of them. the best comparison is like after a mosiquto bites you and you itch the area.

    I'm 80% sure i am just aggravating the area and its only red cause I have access to itch it. I have no symptoms other then its red (due to itching I believe)
    Last edited by e.nergie; 02-24-2010 at 10:48 AM.

  27. #27
    tigerspawn's Avatar
    tigerspawn is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,976
    Bump

  28. #28
    Spartans09's Avatar
    Spartans09 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Detroit Suburbs
    Posts
    673
    Lots of posts about this lately. Bump

  29. #29
    Grizzly Live is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    America
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by kloter1
    The test I have right now is considerably more painful than my last cycle. its t300 and holy hell the inj site is very sore the next day and it takes about 6 days to fully go away. this has become a problem when i shoot delts i have to hold off on my shoulder day. most of the time ill take 2 ibuprofen three times a day to help.

    Lets say the pain is a 7 on a 1-10 scale. by warming the oil beforehand, how much less painful would it be? a 5 or 6?
    I pin t300 as well and I heat the oil under hot water for 2 mins then inject , pain from 7/10 to 4/10

  30. #30
    texasbeast is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    4
    Great post for newbies like me. Thanks

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    somewhere on earth
    Posts
    1,355
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Live View Post

    I pin t300 as well and I heat the oil under hot water for 2 mins then inject , pain from 7/10 to 4/10
    Yeh I simply fill a mug. Half hot kettle water. Half cold tap water. Pin top on and out of the water to ensure sterility. N let it warm up. Obv follow sterilize area b4 n after. I use alcohol gel like in hospitals. Always wait until gel has dissipated.

  32. #32
    Sterlingcharles is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2
    Thanks bro. I was going to just give up on this prop cycle but now that I know what the pain is, it's bearable. I used to just heat my vial up under my armpit to body temp but now I heat it up slightly warmer and after my injection instead of massaging and resting the muscle I do a couple light sets to stretch it and get the blood flowing, then I use a heat pad anytime I'm sitting or laying down and it has helped tremendously. I mean there's still pain but not nearly as bad as before when I couldn't even get a decent sleep.

  33. #33
    samzz41 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1
    How can i tell if its good gear or bad? Is there any way i could test it?

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

  34. #34
    JamesGycle is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    5

    Im new here

    Why is this thread making me so grumpy? I keep reading it over again and I don't know why

  35. #35
    Jigga123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    7
    Hey guys just started my first cycle of test prop, is it normal for my shoulders and glute to be sore?
    Ive injected twice in the shoulder and once in the glute and my glute is real sore and abit swollen not to sure if corked, shoulder is sore but not as bad as my glute!
    And havent been witnessing any kind of fever flue or headaches!
    First cycle so not really sure what to expect

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •