Low T results whilst on 5% cream at 1ml on scrotum a day. Why???

[mrmcqueen]

Hi Guys,

well, I have been off T cream for a week. I wanted to quit. Was on it for 6 months @ 5% cream at 1ml on the scrotum (this cream is from Australia and is meant to be applied to the scrotum). Anyhow, the day I quite, I thought I would get tested and these are my results. This had been done in Japan, so not sure if its different than the US. Let me know what you think. This is so strange as to why it is so low? why would this be when I was on a good dose of cream. Either the cream is BS or there is something else wrong with me????
Please HELP!


　　total testosterone 2.9 ng/ml (2.3-10.4 normal range)
free testosterone 6.6 pg/ml (age30-39male 7.6-23.1 normal range)

Thanks!

[mrmcqueen]

nobody?

[Torqued]

What were your T levels prior to starting the cream? Did you have any other bloodwork drawn before starting? The cream also likely shut down your natural production of testosterone . And I'm sure that others will come along and recommend that you read the sticky threads at the top of the forum.

[kelkel]

Very low levels. Some people just don't do well on creams/gels. All are different and have different absorption rates/quality. It would be good like Torqued said to see some BW. Both pre-TRT as well as more complete results from your last test. Without it it's hard to give a good assessment. Also include your age, weight, estimated body fat levels and what factors caused your doc to put you on TRT.

kel

[mrmcqueen]

hey Kel,

here are my tests just before going on TRT


Total 6.2 normal range 2.3-10.4 ng/ml
Free 13.6 normal range age 20-29 - 8.5-27.9 pg/ml
DHEA-S 199 ug/dl for men 30-39 - 98-516
PSA 0.36 4.00 ng/ml
LH 2.95 normal range 0.79-5.72 MIU/mL
FSH 4.51 normal range 2.00-8.30 mIU/mL
IGF-1 156.0 normal range 106-398
TSH 1.62 normal range 0.50-5.00 uIU/mLT
FT3 3.00 normal range 2.30-4.30 pg/mLT
Cortisol 8.2 normal range 5.017.9 ug/dl
E2 29 normal range 19-51 pg/ml

I decided to go on trt myself, no doc. I was feeling tired all the time and most of all was getting flushes. thinking about it now, I am sure it probably wasnt low T, but I thought it was at the time even though my levels were mid range as you can see above. I tried T and most of my red faced flushes went away for some reason... dont know if it were all in my head or what. Anyhow, I stayed on 1ml at 5%. I am 39 and weight about 71kg. Dont know BF but I have little bf. I workout daily and am in pretty nice shape. whats weird... I dont really feel I have changed since stopping trt over a week ago (last week wed).
anyhow, I self administered. I got the cream from Australia. androforte 5% (you can google it and find it easily).
why would it be so low then? isnt that abnormal? and shouldnt I be feeling like shit now? but im not...... the only pct is tribulus, maca, fish oil, coq10, ala, whole food vitamin, D3 5000IU....
also, I work out basically daily doing crossfit/cross circuit. I work for a pretty good sports supplement company in Japan so I get the best of the best supplements too....
any help would be great....

[Brazensol]

Gel didn't work for me either. I don't know why it is less effective for some people than others. Most likely an absorbtion issue. Have you considered injections?

[kelkel]

Well it just doesn't seem that the cream was that effective for you. It also takes time to be out of your system so how you feel may change.
Mid-range? Mostly. LH seems a bit low which as you know effects T production. Keep an eye on this in future BW to see how it's tracking. Ft3 is better at the higher end. Next BW include a full thyroid panel as thyroid issues can cause hypogonadism.

Total 6.2 normal range 2.3-10.4 ng/ml Mid-range

Free 13.6 normal range age 20-29 - 8.5-27.9 pg/ml Low

DHEA-S 199 ug/dl for men 30-39 - 98-516 Low. Supplement with DHEA Micronized 50mg in the a.m. It's upstream from T and will help

PSA 0.36 4.00 ng/ml Good.

LH 2.95 normal range 0.79-5.72 MIU/mL Odd scale to me

FSH 4.51 normal range 2.00-8.30 mIU/mL Good

IGF -1 156.0 normal range 106-398 Low. Consider Sermorelin

TSH 1.62 normal range 0.50-5.00 uIU/mLT Good

FT3 3.00 normal range 2.30-4.30 pg/mLT Better at higher end.

Cortisol 8.2 normal range 5.017.9 ug/dl Good

E2 29 normal range 19-51 pg/ml Excellent


My thoughts would be to check your D level on your next BW but in the meantime double your D3 to 10k per day to help increase your free T. Get BW done in a month or so and see where you're at. BW examples are in the Finding a Doc sticky. After that post back up and let us re-assess things. If LH does not come up you may consider talking to your doc about trying nolvadex (a SERM) to help stimulate more production or other ancillaries.

kel

[bass]

i don't care what he supplements with, there is no way he can get anywhere near normal with these levels. you need to be on doctor prescribed TRT, self medicating can only get you in more trouble. i agree with the above, absorbtion issue.

[kelkel]

My thinking Bass is that he needs to find out where he lands when this cream clears his system then work toward finding the causative factor for his low T. Then possibly correct it before jumping in with us!

Be interested in a prolactin level as well..

[bass]

My thinking Bass is that he needs to find out where he lands when this cream clears his system then work toward finding the causative factor for his low T. Then possibly correct it before jumping in with us!

Be interested in a prolactin level as well..

Agreed. is PCT needed in this case?

[kelkel]

I don't believe so. Such a small amount of cream I wonder if it would have totally suppressed him. IMO I'd hang in a few weeks for BW and start fresh, review it and chart a course forward. It could be done, no harm no foul.

[mrmcqueen]

Thanks guys.

@ Bass... problem is, I live in Japan and if you think some of the doctors are bad with their knowledge with TRT you have no idea about Japan. They doctors here in general suck anyhow. I went to TWO doctors I KNOW and they would NOT give me clomid even though I took a couple TRT books and showed them.
"if" I end up needing TRT, I dont know what I will do, obviously the cream doesnt work. Or perhaps was it cause I was taking too much?? @ kelkel, it actually was not a small amount. I was taking 5% @ 1ml on the scrotum. The scrotum evedintely absorbed 40 x more than other parts of the body. According to the dude I bought it from in Japan (a Canadian anti aging guru - not doctor who supplies it to anti aging docs in Tokyo - live far from Tokyo) I was taking WAY to much and he said because of that it went the "other way". He said (which is what I experienced), at first when you applied those amounts you wouldnt have been pretty horny and feeling good, then slowly going backwards and even worse than when I started. This is true with me. He said I should only apply a very small amount of 1%. Maybe this will work? maybe not.
But, I agree with Kelkel, I have put my D3 up to 10,000IU and will go for tests end of November. I will get a full screen on what you have suggested and let you guys know.
I feel good now. Not amazing, but ok. I wake up with hard ons, so that is a good indication isnt it? I had no problems in getting an erection today and shooting a load either.
Other thing is, I HATE injections. I really do. Dont know if I could do it, unless I really was that bad.
Anyhow, Thanks seriously to you guys that have the knowledge and share it. You guys are pioneers. There are so many people in such as sticky situation like mine, life could be so much better if our hormones could be simply diagnosed and sorted out. Most Docs are shit, they arent real Docs, or what real Docs are meant to be.
btw can I post a link to the cream I was using? or is that against to forum rules?

[kelkel]

Thanks guys.

@ Bass... problem is, I live in Japan and if you think some of the doctors are bad with their knowledge with TRT you have no idea about Japan. They doctors here in general suck anyhow. I went to TWO doctors I KNOW and they would NOT give me clomid even though I took a couple TRT books and showed them. Was the book in english? HA

"if" I end up needing TRT, I dont know what I will do, obviously the cream doesnt work. Or perhaps was it cause I was taking too much?? @ kelkel, it actually was not a small amount. I was taking 5% @ 1ml on the scrotum. The scrotum evedintely absorbed 40 x more than other parts of the body. According to the dude I bought it from in Japan (a Canadian anti aging guru - not doctor who supplies it to anti aging docs in Tokyo - live far from Tokyo) I was taking WAY to much and he said because of that it went the "other way". He said (which is what I experienced), at first when you applied those amounts you wouldnt have been pretty horny and feeling good, then slowly going backwards and even worse than when I started. This is true with me. He said I should only apply a very small amount of 1%. Maybe this will work? maybe not. Possible that you felt good while you had the cream and endogenous test in your system. Then as your endogenous test naturally regressed you began to feel worse

But, I agree with Kelkel, I have put my D3 up to 10,000IU and will go for tests end of November. I will get a full screen on what you have suggested and let you guys know.
I feel good now. Not amazing, but ok. I wake up with hard ons, so that is a good indication isnt it? I had no problems in getting an erection today and shooting a load either. Always a good sign

Other thing is, I HATE injections. I really do. Dont know if I could do it, unless I really was that bad. Nobody likes injections but you'll be surprised how easy they are once you acclimate to it. Especially Sub-Q injections

Anyhow, Thanks seriously to you guys that have the knowledge and share it. You guys are pioneers. There are so many people in such as sticky situation like mine, life could be so much better if our hormones could be simply diagnosed and sorted out. Most Docs are shit, they arent real Docs, or what real Docs are meant to be.
btw can I post a link to the cream I was using? or is that against to forum rules?

Should be ok. Leave off the www.

Answers in bold above.

kel

[mrmcqueen]

Thanks Kel. If you google androforte 5% it will come up. Its an Australian company. I was wondering if the company is BS and the cream was. But Australia has strict conditions and I would imagine it hard to get away with this.
Yes, the book was written by Nelson Vergel. Pretty famous book. They didnt even bother to look. Typical useless Doctors.

[kelkel]

I've used androforte before. Still get their damn emails. I know Nelson and actually speak to him occasionally.

kel

[mrmcqueen]

how did you go on the androforte Kel? I would not imagine too good since you are not on it anymore. Yes, Nelson is a top guy

[Brazensol]

I realize I am in the minority but I actually look forward to my injections... Yah, I know. Weird.

[kelkel]

I realize I am in the minority but I actually look forward to my injections... Yah, I know. Weird.

Not really. I do as well to some extent as I know that is what keeps me, well, me!

how did you go on the androforte Kel? I would not imagine too good since you are not on it anymore. Yes, Nelson is a top guy

Had one tube of it. Very short term which I felt was worthless. I gave it away. When properly diagnosed I went on androgel which was fine for a while. Then injections. I would never look back.