HCG question ???

[Warrior1700]

So I have been taking HCG on and off for several years while on HRT/TRT...I got more, like 3 vials now, script stuff so legit.... ? is...if I am taking HRT/TRT....200-300 Cyp Ew, for at least 5-6 years now, would HCG really benefit me or am I wasting the stuff and xtra pinning for nothing, as I would presume by now my own test production is Nill....

I haven't pinned HCG in about 9 months and was gonna run a cycle but...does it do me any good at this point? Thanks all.

[FRDave]

Read the stickies for some good info on HCG usage. Many, many benefits in which I would consider it a staple and never go without.

[LowT Mike]

^^^Stickes are good. But first find out if you are primary or secondary. If your LowT is cause by primary (disfunction of testes) HCG will do nothing for you. Cant squeeze blood out of a turnip.

[Warrior1700]

^^^Stickes are good. But first find out if you are primary or secondary. If your LowT is cause by primary (disfunction of testes) HCG will do nothing for you. Cant squeeze blood out of a turnip.

I fo sho will read stickies...Umm, as far as primary / secondary...I been on TRT for at least 5-6 years, am 50 yrs old and believe form the outset that I was secondary...any way to even test for that now that my nads are shut down?

[powerlifterty16]

can see if hcg restarts em

[bass]

5-6 years at 200-300 mgs ew! did I get this right?

[HRTstudent]

at 50 years old, it begs the question, what is your interest in HCG ?

[Warrior1700]

5-6 years at 200-300 mgs ew! did I get this right?

Yes. mostly 200mgs, but sometimes bump it up to 250-300 at most for a couple weeks. Then back down to 200

[Warrior1700]

at 50 years old, it begs the question, what is your interest in HCG?

Initially when first starting TRT, I understood it to help keep the nads working , which is why I am asking now, at 50 , and for being on TRT for so long, do I care if they could even start up again or even if they would at this point? Not like I'm going off of TRT. So that is my original ? Any point in using HCG ?

[LowT Mike]

no there is not. unless you come off TRT. best way now (as barbaric as it is) Start the use of HCG if you notice hypertrophy back into the testicles then you are secondary or at least have more secondary characteristics that you testes have in fact responded.

[Warrior1700]

no there is not. unless you come off TRT. best way now (as barbaric as it is) Start the use of TRT if you notice hypertrophy back into the testicles then you are secondary or at least have more secondary characteristics that you testes have in fact responded.

Ok. Ya after thinking about this more and more the last few months I tbought why HCG now. I tried coming off TRT a few years back....crashed like a rock. Couldn't stick with it after bout 6 weeks. Went back to TRT. I know this is a lifetime thing now, no need for me to come off of it now just to use HCG Aand to see if my nads start to work again. Just wanted to see if there were any other reason to use HCG.

[fireeater49]

Well besides the "boys" issue and the "primary or secondary" hypo issue aside, for me personally it shot my libido up, made my "boys" not ache and brought size back, and kept my hunger in check. I have lost bf I believe because of it. My friends and wife noticed the effects (positive) of TRT but really noticed the effects when I added HCG 250 iu each shot two days before and one day before my test shot. They said it seemed I was more "tighter". FYI I take 100mg cyp IM E5D and its been great for me.

[HRTstudent]

well, some people do subjectively feel a benefit to HCG . is it placebo? is it just because there is more T? is it because the extra e2 helps?... who is to say?

if you were not feeling great then it might be worth a shot to get that subjective benefit. but if you feel good then why change I say...

[2Sox]

Hey, I'm 65 and I take hCG . There is no reason for me NOT to take it. I went 8 months on TRT before I was able to get a source for it. And I'd take hMG also if I could get a reliable and inexpensive source for it! And I was never tested for what kind of hypogonadism I have - so I have no idea. I like the idea that my stones are more or less normal again. And it makes me feel normal too. To me that's the whole idea of TRT - to feel whole again.

[Rusty11]

51 yrs old.
Pre trt-normal look/feel of my sack
Trt, pre hcg -nut sack tighter than a drum
Trt, on hcg-normal look/feel to sack.

Sorry, no way this is subjective or placebo.

[Warrior1700]

Well besides the "boys" issue and the "primary or secondary" hypo issue aside, for me personally it shot my libido up, made my "boys" not ache and brought size back, and kept my hunger in check. I have lost bf I believe because of it. My friends and wife noticed the effects (positive) of TRT but really noticed the effects when I added HCG 250 iu each shot two days before and one day before my test shot. They said it seemed I was more "tighter". FYI I take 100mg cyp IM E5D and its been great for me.

Not worried bout bf or appetite. That is the same protocol that I use HCG when I use it it. Maybe 500iu tho instead of 250. So are you cycling it on and off or taking it continuously?

[Warrior1700]

well, some people do subjectively feel a benefit to HCG . is it placebo? is it just because there is more T? is it because the extra e2 helps?... who is to say?

if you were not feeling great then it might be worth a shot to get that subjective benefit. but if you feel good then why change I say...

Thanks , makes sense, I guess I was looking more for actual benefit while on life long HRT? As I stated , I had used HCG many times but now as I learn more and more from here, not sure there would be an actual benefit. Not gonna bring my natural Test production back up , correct? After being on HRT for so long.

[Warrior1700]

Hey, I'm 65 and I take hCG. There is no reason for me NOT to take it. I went 8 months on TRT before I was able to get a source for it. And I'd take hMG also if I could get a reliable and inexpensive source for it! And I was never tested for what kind of hypogonadism I have - so I have no idea. I like the idea that my stones are more or less normal again. And it makes me feel normal too. To me that's the whole idea of TRT - to feel whole again.

But do you notice a difference when not taking HCG ? And are you cycling in and off or continuous? Mu understanding for using HCG is to bring our marbles back to somewhat normal test production after cycling gear, which we as HRT/TRT , are not cycling.

[Warrior1700]

51 yrs old.
Pre trt-normal look/feel of my sack
Trt, pre hcg -nut sack tighter than a drum
Trt, on hcg-normal look/feel to sack.

Sorry, no way this is subjective or placebo.

Understood, but are you using HCG continuous, or cycling? How must Test are you taking? Besides your boys being back to size/feel, are you getting any other benefit? I just don't wanna waste more pins in my body if there is no reason to use HCG for long term HRT peeps like me/us...

[powerlifterty16]

if insurance covers it isee no reason not to take hcg ..it is super easy to take.

[Warrior1700]

if insurance covers it isee no reason not to take hcg..it is super easy to take.

It is, and I know, it's very easy.

[Rusty11]

Understood, but are you using HCG continuous, or cycling? How must Test are you taking? Besides your boys being back to size/feel, are you getting any other benefit? I just don't wanna waste more pins in my body if there is no reason to use HCG for long term HRT peeps like me/us...

I don't want to get my bw out, but it definitely raised my t level approx. 100 pts. I am on testim and lowered my dose. I take 100iu daily and have not been off it since October, when I began. I take it for one reason only-testicular atrophy.

[2Sox]

I don't want to get my bw out, but it definitely raised my t level approx. 100 pts. I am on testim and lowered my dose. I take 100iu daily and have not been off it since October, when I began. I take it for one reason only-testicular atrophy.

I have tried several dosing schedules; 250iu every 3.5 days, 100iu ED, 150iu ED, 250iu Ed. Now I'm doing 250iu EOD. To be honest, whatever the dose, I felt the same: GREAT!

Testicular atrophy and pushing up total T a little - very little - is definitely NOT the only reason to take hCG . Before hCG, I felt there was something wrong. My orgasms didn't come from my "center", for lack of a better expression. They didn't feel normal. On hCG, they are intense. And I actually ejaculate something. If the Leydig and Sertoli cells are shut down, there's nothing to ejaculate. At least hCG is stimulating the Leydig cells. And a greater sense of well being and feeling "whole" is no small thing. So if you go into a doctor's office only saying you don't want your balls to shrink, he'd be right to answer something like, "So what. Your T levels are up." or something like that.

I couldn't see doing TRT without hCG - for life. And something else: Keep an eye on hMG therapy. I predict guys on TRT will be injecting this along with hCG in coming years. I'm looking into this myself right now.

[roxer]

I'm afraid I am on it too late. I hope not. Five years of TRT without it and my boys were hurting. I'm concerned I destroyed my sperm count and mobility, not to mention just the ability to produce. I did clomid last year, but I don't know if it was enough or in time to help save the situation. I wish I had HCG when I started. Just like 2Sox said, world of difference when on it. I get 10000iu per month supply. Don't want to waste that.

[Warrior1700]

I don't want to get my bw out, but it definitely raised my t level approx. 100 pts. I am on testim and lowered my dose. I take 100iu daily and have not been off it since October, when I began. I take it for one reason only-testicular atrophy.

so if I understand you correctly, you are using HCG ED @ 100iu ? And when you say testicular atrophy, you talking cuz of TRT?

[Warrior1700]

I'm afraid I am on it too late. I hope not. Five years of TRT without it and my boys were hurting. I'm concerned I destroyed my sperm count and mobility, not to mention just the ability to produce. I did clomid last year, but I don't know if it was enough or in time to help save the situation. I wish I had HCG when I started. Just like 2Sox said, world of difference when on it. I get 10000iu per month supply. Don't want to waste that.

How are you using HCG ? My boys don't hurt, ever, but I am sure I am sterile. Which at 50 I don't really care anymore. Just looking to see if there is more of a benefit other then just to try to bring the boys back to size and producing, which I don't think at this stage they will ever produce again? I dunno? Someone who knows please pipe up.

[2Sox]

How are you using HCG? My boys don't hurt, ever, but I am sure I am sterile. Which at 50 I don't really care anymore. Just looking to see if there is more of a benefit other then just to try to bring the boys back to size and producing, which I don't think at this stage they will ever produce again? I dunno? Someone who knows please pipe up.

You can take a look at this:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...l#.UO8vAba24hY

There is another sticky too.

[Warrior1700]

You can take a look at this:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...l#.UO8vAba24hY

There is another sticky too.

Thank you.

[2Sox]

How are you using HCG? My boys don't hurt, ever, but I am sure I am sterile. Which at 50 I don't really care anymore. Just looking to see if there is more of a benefit other then just to try to bring the boys back to size and producing, which I don't think at this stage they will ever produce again? I dunno? Someone who knows please pipe up.

What do you have to lose by trying a course of hCG for a few months? A few dollars? I was lucky; it took me about seven months of TRT before I got my source and began.

If hMG was just as inexpensive, I'd pin that too - for the Sertoli cells. I'm not interested in having any kids either; I just want to feel complete. I'm 65 and I still feel this way.

[Warrior1700]

What do you have to lose by trying a course of hCG for a few months? A few dollars? I was lucky; it took me about seven months of TRT before I got my source and began.

If hMG was just as inexpensive, I'd pin that too - for the Sertoli cells. I'm not interested in having any kids either; I just want to feel complete. I'm 65 and I still feel this way.

Right on...Thanks. I'll start it up again then.

[AnabolicDoc]

Hey, I'm 65 and I take hCG. There is no reason for me NOT to take it. I went 8 months on TRT before I was able to get a source for it. And I'd take hMG also if I could get a reliable and inexpensive source for it! And I was never tested for what kind of hypogonadism I have - so I have no idea. I like the idea that my stones are more or less normal again. And it makes me feel normal too. To me that's the whole idea of TRT - to feel whole again.

If you're LH was high or normal at time of diagnosis then you're likely primary. If it was low then likely secondary.

[roxer]

How are you using HCG? My boys don't hurt, ever, but I am sure I am sterile. Which at 50 I don't really care anymore. Just looking to see if there is more of a benefit other then just to try to bring the boys back to size and producing, which I don't think at this stage they will ever produce again? I dunno? Someone who knows please pipe up.

Same as everyone else, three 250iu injections a week. My boys got small and did start hurting - I am the same age as you, well I will be in November. I do want to have another kid and have a 30yr old fiancée. I was getting to the point where just sitting in a way my underwear was tight caused an annoying pain. All gone now. It left the first day I started using HCG . And I feel a little more whole. Don't know how to describe it, just know it when I feel it. I actually look forward to my next injection.

[roxer]

If you're LH was high or normal at time of diagnosis then you're likely primary. If it was low then likely secondary.

My LH was normal when on clomid but I was only putting out 300 ng/ml out of two tests. So I am guessing I am primary?

[Warrior1700]

Same as everyone else, three 250iu injections a week. My boys got small and did start hurting - I am the same age as you, well I will be in November. I do want to have another kid and have a 30yr old fiancée. I was getting to the point where just sitting in a way my underwear was tight caused an annoying pain. All gone now. It left the first day I started using HCG. And I feel a little more whole. Don't know how to describe it, just know it when I feel it. I actually look forward to my next injection.

Dang ok...good luck to you with the kid.

So when I was using HCG , I was using the protocol that was outlined in that article by Dr. Chrisler where he states to inject 2 days prior then one day prior to Test inj. I was pinning 500iu each of those days then my test on the next day. Perhaps I should do the 3x a week @ 250 IU when I start back?

[AnabolicDoc]

My LH was normal when on clomid but I was only putting out 300 ng/ml out of two tests. So I am guessing I am primary?

What were you before clomid? It sounds like primary but maybe you're mixed.

[AnabolicDoc]

Dang ok...good luck to you with the kid.

So when I was using HCG, I was using the protocol that was outlined in that article by Dr. Chrisler where he states to inject 2 days prior then one day prior to Test inj. I was pinning 500iu each of those days then my test on the next day. Perhaps I should do the 3x a week @ 250 IU when I start back?

The must recent study done with hcg during TRT for the purposes of reproductive function were at 500iu 2x per week. I posted the study back in March. So that would be my preference but 250iu 3x per week isn't a very big difference - 1000iu per wk vs 750iu.

[Warrior1700]

The must recent study done with hcg during TRT for the purposes of reproductive function were at 500iu 2x per week. I posted the study back in March. So that would be my preference but 250iu 3x per week isn't a very big difference - 1000iu per wk vs 750iu.

Thanks Doc...and as far as when, would the 2 days and 1 day prior to Test still apply or different days than that outlined?

[AnabolicDoc]

I personally don't think it matters much but Crisler's hcg dosing model is to boost natural test levels when the exogenous test is at its lowest. He first recommended that hcg be taken the last two days before injection (based on a once per week injection model) and then switched to the day before and the day of injection. I might have that backwards. If your injecting twice a week, I guess following the same reasoning, you'd do hcg either the day of or the day before injection. But when injecting twice a week with cyp or enan, I can't see it making a big difference. Personally, I would space it out for fear of conversion to estrogen, as hcg can increase aromatase levels - although some say that hcg only increases aromatase in the testicles.

[2Sox]

I personally don't think it matters much but Crisler's hcg dosing model is to boost natural test levels when the exogenous test is at its lowest. He first recommended that hcg be taken the last two days before injection (based on a once per week injection model) and then switched to the day before and the day of injection. I might have that backwards. If your injecting twice a week, I guess following the same reasoning, you'd do hcg either the day of or the day before injection. But when injecting twice a week with cyp or enan, I can't see it making a big difference. Personally, I would space it out for fear of conversion to estrogen, as hcg can increase aromatase levels - although some say that hcg only increases aromatase in the testicles.

Crisler is two days before and the day before. But IMO, what's the difference. Most guys on the forum are all over the place with dosing. I couldn't tell the difference in myself between 100iu a day and 250iu a day. Now I'm on 250iu EOD, sometimes ED, depending on my mood. ;-) I guess it comes down to comfort and cost but with overseas pharmacies, cost is negligible.

[roxer]

What were you before clomid? It sounds like primary but maybe you're mixed.

I started this out with 200 and 300 levels before TRT. I got tired of the gel thing and my doctor said he would try clomid for 6 months. Never got over 300 on it. At least the boys are generating something? Now on shots and HCG , but I am having issues getting my doctor to check my levels again. He says I am fine at 556. I feel blah and now have ED.