Going from cycle back to TRT

**Wizwell** · 06-21-2013, 04:56 PM

Having read that no PCT is needed when on TRT I do have a question. I was planning on taking 500 mg Test E once per week for 12 weeks. I was also planning on taking .3 mg of Arimidex ( Ar-r liquidex ) daily. When going back to TRT, which is currently daily Androgel , would I continue the liquidex for awhile? No Nolvadex needed? I currently have never used, or been prescribed, any A.I. with my TRT. Any help would be appreciated.

**bass** · 06-21-2013, 07:08 PM

I wouldn't take AI everyday, eod would be safer, or based on BW. no PCT needed, simply just go back to your TRT protocol. at 500 ew watch your RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit.

**Bio-Active** · 06-21-2013, 07:51 PM

Do you really want to pin 500 all at once instead up splitting the dose 250 2 x EW?

**bringndaheat** · 06-21-2013, 11:03 PM

I wouldn't take AI unless needed!

**kelkel** · 06-22-2013, 09:17 AM

You'll always need an AI at 500mg per wk of test. Do what jim said and split your dosage for more stable levels and better E control. Look at .25mg eod of adex which would be a standard dosage for that amount of Test.

**Wizwell** · 06-24-2013, 03:18 PM

Thanks for the information everyone. I will split dosages into twice per week. Kel, you always seem to have great information. Would you suggest an A.I. while on Androgel ? Or, a least into the first couple of weeks back on TRT? I also thought .3 adex ED was a little on the high side. But, I wasn't sure if Ar-r 's liquidex was fully dosed. Any experience with liquidex?
Again, thanks all.

**kelkel** · 06-24-2013, 09:29 PM

Normally people don't need an AI when on Gels even though the aromatase enzyme lives in the skin. It's the low-dose daily application that helps here. If you didn't need one before on gel I don't see why you would need it now. Did you every check your E2 with a sensitive assay when stable on androgel ? When coming off your cycle I'd suggest continuing your EOD AI protocol for another two weeks.

I've heard nothing but positive things about their liquidex even though I've never had occasion to use it as mine is scripted. Even though I don't need it on my TRT protocol. Having nolvadex on hand is also a good thing during a cycle, just in case.

**chuckt12345** · 06-25-2013, 06:42 AM

no AI with gels or patches. Most people dont even need it at 500mg a wk but its better to be safer than sorry

**kelkel** · 06-25-2013, 08:05 AM

Chuck if your saying most don't need an AI at 500mg a week then that's a bit off base IMHO. Unless you mean some simply may not get gyno. Everyone needs an AI at that dose. Everyone. More of the insidious negative effects of high estrogen are internal, not external. Gyno is not the sole regulating factor here, overall health is. Some people may never get gyno even if doing grams of test per week while others can get it on high end TRT. We are all different when it comes to side effects but everyone's estrogen will dramatically rise with test supplementation at 500mg per week. Simply put, E follows T.

**Wizwell** · 06-25-2013, 03:10 PM

I have not had my E2 levels checked. I'm sure my doctor would order it on my suggestion. ( or yours actually ) I'm not sure what a sensitive assay is? I do have a blood test to submit in August. However, it's only checking my free testosterone as well as total. Also checks my TSH as I'm apparently hypothyroid. Although, I'd never know it. I never had any symptoms. It was discovered during a blood test for an ear problem many years ago. I may just do the online blood test to order that many of you do. I could then get all of the necessary baseline numbers.
I do have nolvadex and letro both if need be. When you say just in case, are you referring to early gyno symptoms, nipple tenderness etc.?

Once again, many thanks!!!

**kelkel** · 06-25-2013, 05:15 PM

Labcorp offers a sensitive assay which is specific to males. I can give you the codes if you need them. Yes for "just in case" and nolva.

**Wizwell** · 06-27-2013, 05:53 PM

That would be great if I knew what codes were for? Please help me out here. I've never ordered online blood work.

**kelkel** · 06-27-2013, 06:03 PM

Labcorp E Sensitive: 140244. CPT Code 82670.

Take both with you every time you go. They tend to F it up if you don't. They're not used to using it or so it seems.

**Wizwell** · 06-28-2013, 04:19 PM

Thanks. Any advice on what I might say to my doc as to why I'd like this checked? I could get my insurance to pay for it if he ordered the test.

**kelkel** · 06-28-2013, 04:53 PM

It's an estrogen test that is specific to males and is the proper test for this purpose.

**Wizwell** · 06-29-2013, 06:49 AM

Ok. Final question as I'm sure you're getting tired of me. :-) If I go online and setup a blood test to use as a baseline, what are the other important items I should tested for? Bass mentioned hemoglobin and hematocrit?

Thank you

**FRDave** · 06-29-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Wizwell

Ok. Final question as I'm sure you're getting tired of me. :-) If I go online and setup a blood test to use as a baseline, what are the other important items I should tested for? Bass mentioned hemoglobin and hematocrit?

Thank you

Just get the female hormone panel from private md labs . Com

For $50, it can't be beat. You can then request stuff like lipid panel, thyroid panel, etc through your Dr and get it covered under insurance since these are basic blood test that should be done yearly.

**Wizwell** · 06-29-2013, 01:32 PM

Female?

**FRDave** · 06-29-2013, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Wizwell

Female?

Yes, choose the 'female hormone panel' which can be found on main page. Upon checkout and choosing a lab corp facility, you will check male so the ranges will be according for a male.

Results will look like pics attached *edited*

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**Wizwell** · 06-29-2013, 03:49 PM

Thanks again.

**Far from massive** · 06-29-2013, 04:29 PM

Just a quick note:

All Kelkels advice is excellent, however,

Unless your doc knows you are doing a 12 week cycle of 500mg Test,,,I would NOT run this through my doc or insurance. The last thing you want is your doctor getting skewed data and thinking his/your TRT protocol is all fvkd up!

**Wizwell** · 06-30-2013, 04:56 AM

Good advice. I would wait until I was a month or so back into my androgel protocol. I assume this is enough time to get an accurate test?

**Wizwell** · 08-21-2013, 03:41 PM

I have now been on daily androgel for four weeks. I'm hoping someone can tell me if this is long enough to get my baseline numbers? Sorry to be bumping my old thread.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-21-2013, 04:15 PM

androgel for 4 weeks and looking to cycle? why did ugo on androgel in the first place?

**kelkel** · 08-21-2013, 04:33 PM

Yes to the baseline numbers.

**Wizwell** · 08-21-2013, 05:26 PM

Powerlifterty16 - Long story. I was on a 400mg test E, once per month, therapy. After getting some pretty adamant responses that my doc was less than informed about TRT, I decided Androgel would achive more stable levels. Good advice from Kel by the way. I now want to get some baseline blood numbers before doing a conservative cycle.

**Wizwell** · 08-21-2013, 05:40 PM

Thanks Kel. I went to the Labcorp website. I see no way to setup the tests I would need. Would I setup an appointment and give the codes on arrival? The private md lab website, suggested by FRDave seems straight forward and user friendly. Does his bloodwork example show the E Sensitive test results you are recommending?
Many thanks for all of the help.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-21-2013, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wizwell

Powerlifterty16 - Long story. I was on a 400mg test E, once per month, therapy. After getting some pretty adamant responses that my doc was less than informed about TRT, I decided Androgel would achive more stable levels. Good advice from Kel by the way. I now want to get some baseline blood numbers before doing a conservative cycle.

400 mg once per month is a pretty shitty protocol for sure. if your doc prescribed it though you could have bought sub q needles and done 50 mg twice per week...but i bet he had u in office.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-21-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Wizwell

Thanks Kel. I went to the Labcorp website. I see no way to setup the tests I would need. Would I setup an appointment and give the codes on arrival? The private md lab website, suggested by FRDave seems straight forward and user friendly. Does his bloodwork example show the E Sensitive test results you are recommending?
Many thanks for all of the help.

no it is regular estradiol, which i have found anecdotally to be good enough..but users like kel and some other knowledgeable members prefer sensitive...id personally go with dave's blwork.

**Wizwell** · 08-21-2013, 06:22 PM

It was in office. He wanted no part of letting me self inject. Life would be a lot easier if I could find an MD to approve that. Chicago is the closest place for the LowT.com solution. I'm still kicking that around. There is a doc who's a member of A4m here in town. I may give him a call and see what his protocol is.

**Wizwell** · 08-22-2013, 06:46 PM

Although I still need to do a more complete bloodwork test on my own, I did get these results today. This was ordered by my Dr. relating to my TRT, and HypoThyroid. Any input as to these results?
Event Result Ref. Range
S TSH 1.8 (0.36 - 3.74)
SHBG 33.5 (17.3 - 65.8)
Testosterone 356 (231 - 735)
Testosterone Free 70.7 (47.0 - 244.0)
Testosterone % Free 2.0 (1.0 - 2.8)
These results are daily Androgel for my TRT. I'm thinking a couple of these testosterone numbers are on the low side????